Mark my words: they will put Kamala 2.0. or Gavin in the race for president instead of AOC or any other progressive.
Mark my words: they will put Kamala 2.0. or Gavin in the race for president instead of AOC or any other progressive.
323 comments
-
AOC is a clear choice, I'd say Bernie but I'm already tired of old people in power.
AOC is young, in touch with actual issues, in touch with the generations that are moving the economy, knows the struggle since she used to be a waitress and so far I haven't seen her go crazy on anyone else's agenda or buying stocks and enriching herself beyond measure like damn old hag Pelosi.
-
Can we do ranked choice primaries?
-
I'm a progressive, but also a pragmatist and a realist, and I find these kind of complaints unhelpful and naive. Politics is a blood sport and it always has been. No one is going to hand AOC the reins of power. She has to win them, and her opponents aren't going to play fair. This is, sadly, how the game is played. Don't mourn. Organize!
-
Funny meme though
-
"No! It's her turn!"
-people who complain about DNC insiders.
-
-
The supervillains are still in charge thinking up ways to destroy anyone and anything opposing them to ensure the superiority of their greedoid ultraconservatism, while the supposedly "enlightened" people who are supposed to fight those bastards as a united front are instead fighting over recriminations, ideological rivalries, and supposed levels of moral purity.
-
I haven't heard bad stuff about Gavin Newsom. Did he turn corporate when I wasn't paying attention?
-
- has a podcast where he fawns over conservative guests like Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk
- borrowing talking points from Jordan Peterson about "bro culture" and a "crisis of masculinity"
- wants to "solve" California's housing crisis by jailing unhoused people
- thinks "social issues" like transgender rights and due process for immigrants are distractions from the real issues (like tariffs)
Newsom has generally been pivoting conservative over the last few years, most commenters think in preparation for a 2028 presidential run, and has turned it up since Trump was elected.
-
Wow. Last time I paid attention to him he was leading the push for gay marriage in California before SCOTUS legalized it. Then I remember him running for governor and I stopped hearing about him since I didn't live in Cali
-
For reference, he's getting chumy with Tuker Carlson of all people. Neo-libs gonna neo-lib.
-
He is anti-trans for one.
-
He's been tilting rightward to accomodate the shift in the American public ya.
-
-
Tim Waltz is your best bet here. White man, can peel off MAGA for change but still stay "pure". We have to get past the deep south rooted haters that hate POC, women and anything not white/Christian.
Obama was the Trump of the Dem party. Now you gotta play balance, sadly.
-
walz/aoc would be a great ticket <3
-
Walz is going hard on full RTO for government workers in MN in order to prop up property investments. Please keep him away from my progressive ticket.
-
-
But he got shrecked in an easilly winnable debate with JD "Popeslayer" Vance, who used the strategy "lie and they won't call me on it".
-
-
It isn't about change.
-
Isn't there enough bad things happening right now to complain about? This is a totally imaginary scenario that is years away and you're all ruining your day a little bit more by engaging with it.
WHY?
It is totally wasted energy. Total waste of time. Counter productive to your political goals. Encouraging a culture of fixating on problems you have no idea how to solve. Bonding over helplessness and apathy.
You know a lot of canvasers are thinking about ditching the dems and going independant? You could encourage them, you could become one of them, you could help give them arguments and counter narratives, make memes, shitpost for a good cause, post in mixed comment sections where half the people hate you and fish for an even mix of upvotes to downvotes - that's how you know you're reaching people! Take a little pleasure in becoming unbotherable.
Also, counter narratives are great because you don't have to substantiate anything. ' ICE is deporting random innocent people to fill quotas ' - your move, rightoids, I spent five seconds writing that and one braincell. Zero effort and they might end up spending 100x the effort countering it. God knows I've been on the other side of that. It's a brilliant rhetorical tactic.
You don't even have to keep arguing, you can just post 'sounds dumb' or 'bad argument' or nothing at all and just leave!
Bots wouldn't exist if posting comments on the internet didn't do anything. And even doing nothing is better than perpetuating misery-posting culture in the online left.
Tony Benn said that the job of the left is to 1) anger people and 2) inspire hope. We need to get a lot better at the second one.
:edit:
Just to clarify, I also hate the Dems lmao
-
Our local lemmy tankie brigade are strangely indifferent to the doings of Trump and his fascist oligarch regime, but they are positively obsessed with the Democrats, even as the Trump regime is doing its best to ensure that elections and thus the Democrats will not be a thing in the future.
They will also claim to care about genocides, but they are not only strangely indifferent to the genocide occurring against the Ukrainians, they will happily regurgitate the Putin talking points used as an excuse for it.
These people are not really "the left", they are authoritarians. They do care about any left wing issues, they do not care about the rights of the exploited and the weak, and they do not fear fascism, they are just mad that it isn't themselves who are sitting in power right now.
-
-
But people are stupid and they DID vote wrong. They had a choice and they chose wrong.
-
The American people aren't stupid. They're poorly educated and brainwashed by propaganda.
When a kid without developmental disabilities gets to 12th grade and still can't read or write his own name, we don't blame the kid for being stupid - or at least we shouldn't - we blame the parents and teachers. The kid was failed by the people who had the responsibility to teach him.
Same with politics. Voters don't have degrees in political science. They make the best decisions they can based on the information they have. Biden presided over the worst economy for the poor and middle class and the biggest wealth transfer to the ultra rich in my lifetime, Harris told voters "I'm not going to do anything different from Biden but Trump will destroy America so vote for me", Trump told voters "I know you're hurting, Biden and Harris failed you, and my policies will help you", and voters made the best decision they knew how to make.
Which was a stupid fucking decision. Granted. But the lion's share of the blame has to go to Biden, Harris, and their enablers. They were the experts. It was their job to keep America from making that stupid fucking decision. And they failed America.
-
No, we voted for Bernie. He won the primary and for some reason Hilary was the candidate. That was the beginning of the end. We didn’t vote for Harris to be our candidate either. THAT is how Trump wins. The majority did not want trump either time he ran for president, but the DNC made sure he won by putting in their least popular candidate. It’s a dog and pony show. Both sides are working for the same people.
-
"Before won the primary" is a different reality from the one we live in. Even if you remove the superdelegates and only look at the ones decided by popular vote, Hillary won that primary.
I wanted president Bernie Sanders and voted as such. But I actually live in THIS reality and don't waste my energy whatabouting if an election had gone differently.
-
-
Is a difficult subject because on a personal level I've lost dear friends to insane propaganda, and I still haven't forgiven myself for not being able to save them from it - and I'll probably never forgive them for it either. They were supposed to be smart.
People think I'm smart but I fall for stuff too. In media, the existing weapons can be stronger than the defenses, and sometimes that's all there is to it. Modern media makes the greatest aspirations of MK Ultra look like child's play.
I'm still not convinced memes aren't a great filter, unless great filter theory is just another shitty meme.
To sum up, people did vote objectively incorrectly. The Democratic party however is not guilt free. The whole system is built on violence, and that grim old tree won't bear fruit unless you water it.
-
-
Dems are 0 and 2 when squaring off a Woman against a right wing ultranationalist.
so long as there are people like Trump on the other side, I dont think the Dems will ever run a woman again.
-
Yes, let's get preemptively angry at those not currently in power for something we assume they'll do!
-
It's truly the "progressive" way. That and never actually voting in a primary.
-
Hard to when Democrats don't give them one to vote in
-
Yes, we're losing and the world is descending into fascist ruin.
But at least I get to feel smugly superior!
This is not that different from the monsters on the other side who are destroying their economy and the standing of the country.
But at least they get to feel racist and abusive to brown people!
-
-
-
it will be interesting to see who their media will be blaming since the anti-genocide and LGBTQ+ people will be either in prison or deported or stripped from their rights to vote.
-
it will be interesting to see who their media will be blaming since the anti-genocide and LGBTQ+ people will be either in prison or deported or stripped from their rights to vote.
You think Hitler stopped blaming jews even after they were all in camps?!??
-
-
harm reduction is a thing that you can support.
-
If Josh Shapiro wins the nomination I will not vote for him, I cannot stand this nonsense, this is absolute insanity. How the hell are modern Democrats less progressive than FDR (and he was a massive racist), we are a century ahead yet we are centuries behind. Now we're fighting over which fascist is more palatable so when can whitewash them and call them progressive. I voted for Kamala in 2024 but NOT AGAIN, I will NOT vote for another mild flavor of fascism lite.
-
If we want to make it more likely for a progressive to win the nomination, taking grassroots action now can make a big difference.
Are you looking to get involved to make a difference in the two party system? Get more progressives in office? Enable progressives to be the future face of the Democrat Party in your state? Then the biggest thing I can recommend would be joining an organization such as the Equal Vote Coalition. Their goal is to get better voting systems in place across the country, moving away from First Past the Post which has locked us into our two party system. Alaska and Maine have already succeeded in moving away from First Past the Post voting.
If we take action now, we can potentially get the voting system changed locally or on the state level for many of us before the midterm elections. Then as we continue to make progress, by the time 2028 rolls around we could safely pick our preferred candidates first and have safe backup candidate options so our preferred candidate(s) have a much greater chance at winning.
Help start a ballot initiative in your state here.
-
Not a chance in Hell Gavin gets it
-
Whoever it is, they need to be charismatic and young (for a politician). AOC would work in that sense.
I actually think Kamala worked too. Her non-election was due to other reasons, mostly Biden's mistakes and that fucking assassination attempt. That shooter fucked up in so many levels, I hope he's being tortured somewhere.
-
'assassination attempt'
-
He's dead
-
Oh, I forgot somehow. Too bad.
-
-
-
This whole discussion has been a fascinating read in the comments.
But does anyone really think we're going to have another election? Much less a non-rigged election?
-
I think its important and great to plan ahead. Especially in times like this. And Im hoping they give us someone people will vote for this time. Because holy shit, almost anyone is better than this
But also Im not holding my breath. Im honestly not even sure if I'll be in a camp or not. But either way even if we do have elections it will likely be in the same sense that Russia has elections.
-
The system was already rigged, of course. Electoral college, absentee cancelations, felons disqualified. It was broken before so even if things stayed the same (which they won't) it'll still be broken.
I do expect elections to continue. Just much less honestly.
-
And what you said doesn't even include the voter roll purges which as a citizen and voter of an actually democratic country is mind boggling that it's a thing.
-
-
I don't find very much interesting about this conversation anymore. If it can even be called that. American politics is like scripted television drama. It's quite fitting. Except it's so predictable. It's the same script on loop.
-
Yes, well have a next election. Not because our democracy is that strong, but because trump and Co are that weak
They will try to rig our next election, no doubt. I'm just confident theyll lose so bad there's no rigging it
-
-
Did you listen to the latest tiff between David Hogg and James Carville?
Carville really wants to push progressives out of the Democratic party while keeping their heads in the sand. I think his last rant was because Hogg wants to replace existing Dems (Carville says he should be replacing Republicans). However, I think Hogg wants to do this because these Dems aren't really doing anything and waiting to pick up the pieces from this Trump administration. I think agree more with Hogg that it's more important to show the people that you represent them rather than be like: "we're not the Republicans".
I'm not an entire fan of Hogg though, he seems a bit inconsistent but I agree with him here.
To be clear, people should have voted for the Democrats. We're all in the position we're in because not enough people did. Would you get what you want? No. But we still wouldn't be in the mess otherwise. I mean, assuming the election wasn't stolen.
That being said, all these older people that don't seem interested in fighting for their people need to be purged from the Democrats. I don't know if it's because they're really old or out of touch or what. There's a thirst for people to want representation for them to fight (as seen by the AOC and Bernie rallies). I think their inactivity isn't helping for the most part. Also, they need to get some more names out there.
-
Yeah, I've been low-key following this drama and Hogg is out there spearheading the "tea party style takeover" that people have been saying the DNC needs. Carville, Schumer, and Co. seem to think that letting the republicans off the leash to blow up everything and hurt everyone is the best path forward. Put another way, the plan is to continue offering shitty corpocentrism and hope that voters prefer corpocentrism (clothed fascism) over naked fascism again in two and four years. Fuck that and fuck them, Hogg can take my energy and blast those fossilized assholes with a spirit bomb.
-
Hogg wants to replace old, "do nothing" incumbents with younger versions of Pelosi, Clinton, Jeffries.
Hogg wants young, centrist, corporatist Democrats, not progressives.
-
Because they win elections in purple districts. Try running AOC in North Carolina.
-
-
It's because the democrats simply cannot fund-raise on the kind of populist progressive policy Americans actually want.
Democrats are up schitt's creek without a paddle - they can't fund-raise without the support of the large donor-class, and their increasingly populist progressive base are simply not satisfied by the kind of economic policies those donors are desperate to preserve.
If democrats stay this course they will never hold more than 45% of congress again and only win the white house maybe once every 3 or 4 terms.
-
If democrats stay this course they will never hold more than 45% of congress again and only win the white house maybe once every 3 or 4 terms.
Yeah I'm feeling that.
You bring up really good points. How do you go to the large donors and say, "give us more money to help take more money from you".
-
I've brought it up on other Lemmy comments, but one thing I really want to work on with messaging is "Eat the rich".
Case in point: Elon Musk is evil. He's a toe-sucking narcissist who can't stand that South Africa ended apartheid. He's a loser that can't beat the first Path of Exile boss. He's...make up your own insult, and I'll likely echo it. But what I can't stand is commenters saying that anyone and everyone possessing as much money as him is equally evil. Basically the equivalent of so many school "Zero tolerance" policies.
Musk is evil for his actions, not just for personality. Yes, a large number of rich people are also evil - there's logic behind that venn intersection. But capitalism is our system, even if we decide we want to start changing it. Past the big names of horrible people that have lobbied the system for their own interests, many rich people are just...quiet outside of their main successful ventures. One very ready playbook of the far right is to point out how many Democrats - even honest ones that have made excellent changes - are evil simply for having net worth in the millions. As long as "Eat the rich" is a popular slogan, it tends to work, and convince donors that progressives are out to hunt them down with axes.
My take on a better message would be: We all want a better world. Have you ever wandered the streets of venice, wishing you could have that nice communal feel back in America - unburdened by homeless people, dirty streets, or traffic? This is our goal. House the homeless. Clean the streets, and encourage recycling. Put people on public transit. Progressives will tax you more to make that work, but will make a better world for it; one where people don't need to hire private security to protect from betrayed employees, or shelter in an SUV to go two blocks. If you're a businessman, vote Republican. If you're an honest businessman, vote Democrat.
The message could use some work, but perhaps you get the idea.
-
-
-
A lot more people than the DNC are blaming people for not voting Democrat & sticking us with this shithole administration. It was a huge no-brainer.
-
The democrats are objectively better for the majority of the population. Science has a liberal bias and all that.
What many of the dem leaders and commentors are missing is that's not enough. Blaming and shaming people online, even if you're right which as I covered you objectively are, isn't going to win the election. A lot of people voted for Trump because they feel left out and unheard. Maybe they should be, after all some of them hold dangerous ideas like climate change denial or think giving underrepresented people's a chance is unfair.
But that's just not enough. Being right isn't enough. Pointing out their idiocy only serves to entrench them and scare away moderates. You might say, not voting means they're dumb, right or wrong that comment doesn't help your cause. Being objectively correct didn't win the last election. Until the democrats acknowledge that optics are more import than correctness they're going to fight an uphill battle. A very steep one.
-
commentors are missing is that’s not enough.
They may get that. Commenters are more often not the Democrats (their leadership, strategists, or establishment), they may get that, and they may think their leftist peers who couldn't work out 2 + 2 = 4 are a problem, too. Figuring their chances of reaching the DNC on here are remote, they may engage the last problem not as part of some Democrat strategy (which they aren't a part of), but because they're a regular human trying to reach their fellow, idiot human.
Addressing human failings may be a futile waste of energy but ignoring them entirely isn't doing much good. Some think change begins by holding ourselves accountable where we fail. The least we can do is try to be right. None of this is part of a party strategy: it's humans trying to get humans to human better.
You're right it's not enough, and those with power to do enough aren't. The problems with society & political culture are manifold.
optics are more import
It's more than optics: actions, delivering more effective government that noticeably eases our lives, reinvigorating local organizations & alliances that draw power to the party. A problem with Democrats may be an excessive concern with appearances & blanding their message so much to appease everyone (all purists) that it moves no one.
-
-
-
Because DNC are controlled opposition.
-
"They" being tens of millions of voters in the primaries. You could be one of them, maybe?
-
The DNC throws their weight behind the candidate of their choosing. And that's enough to sway people away from the progressive candidates.
-
-
Its never about what the majority wants. Its what minority wants. They are fat satisfied one percenters and the only thing they hate worse than a maga is letting the little people have a choice.
-
You do know that "they" do not pick the candidates right? It is called a primary election and it is where anyone registered in the party can go and vote for WHO they want to be the candidate. It is the part of the election that is voted on by the tiniest little minority of both parties but has the absolute biggest impact on the race.
You don't like the shit ass candidate for your party? If you did not vote in the primaries then you have no right to complain. Go vote in the primaries and complain away. Otherwise suck it up and suffer, just like all the non voters who are hating Trump at the moment. Got no one to blame but yourselves.
-
You're talking to people that don't vote in the primary. Some don't even know what the primary is judging by many of these comments.
-
Bingo
-
-
Did they even hold a primary? =S
-
The primary was in 2020.
If Sanders won that and was incumbent during 2024 primaries, he'd face practically zero opposition in primaries.
Primaries would never happen during an incumbency. I hate it, but that's the fault of this "Incumbency Advantage" phenomeon.
-
-
-
Who’s they?
-
If you don't like trump and you didn't vote, then you're to blame.
My country has compulsory voting so nobody has an excuse
-
Is you didn't vote for Harris, you're to blame.
-
No, it's the Republicans who are to blame. The Democratic leadership is to blame for not putting up a candidate or policies that the voters wanted.
It's always amazing to me that people will blame the people who couldn't stomach to vote for the Democrats, rather than getting mad at the Democratic leadership for being so awful that people can't stomach to vote for them.
-
-
-
If my country had compulsory voting and my choices were trump and harris I would have voted for mickey mouse. Or do they send somebody in with you to vote for an approved candidate? Because that doesn't sound like anyplace I'd be interested in living
-
Where are you from? How it works where I'm from, is that you're required to go vote. What you fill out on the paper is no one's business.
Just put in a blank paper. Turn up because it's your duty by being a citizen. We live in a society, not as individuals. People who want to live in isolation and not affect anyone else are welcome to fuck off to the middle of the ocean for all I care.
Compulsory voting retains majority of Australians' support, because it makes voter suppression incredibly difficult.
It's SOOOO easy to vote here it's not even funny. We can partially thank compulsory voting for keeping it that way.
If they tried to make voting harder, everyone would be pissed off, since they're required to vote. Good luck getting such a reform to stick...
Unlike in some certain countries where apparently you're not allowed to give water out to voters in certain states.
Wild. Dumb. Much freedom to not vote 👌
Compulsory voting is great. We love it (well, most of us think it's a good thing. I love it, personally)
-
If my country had compulsory voting and my choices were trump and harris I would have voted for mickey mouse.
A stunning example of exactly the kind of performative pro-genocide bullshit that put us in this mess. Wonderful.
-
-
I didn't vote, and it doesn't matter that I didn't vote.
There are mass counties that had 0 Harris Votes and all DT. This is a statistical impossibility. On top of the already impossible results we've seen with the election anomaly all point together at obvious voting fraud. The election didn't happen as you think it happened, it happened because billionaires conspired together to put a lunatic at the helm.
-
Hope you're enjoying the current democratic backsliding the USA is experiencing. It's partially your fault for letting it happen.
-
-
-
Democrats are dumb enough to think that the main problem is that Americans won’t elect a woman, and won’t try a third time. Then they’ll find someone conservative and claim this is the only way to win over Republicans.
-
I still feel like the dnc is going to lean heavy into Buttigieg. He's young, an eloquent speaker, a sharp debater. He clearly is down to play ball with the dnc establishment as they want him to (stepped aside for Biden to get a cabinet position) , and they hope that he's baggage free enough (Kamala and her Marijuana prosecutions) that progressives will vote for him. Yes, he's gay, and the hardcore magats won't like that, but I think older suburban voters would rather have someone sane that's gay than insane and straight.
-
Then it will be 2016 all over again
Leftist leadership or the status quo are the options
And only the rich want the status quo anymore
-
older suburban voters would rather have someone sane that's gay than insane and straight.
Based on some older people in my family that disowned their own child: doubt.
-
I think you vastly underestimate the hate conservative voters have for gay candidates.
if they have any hope for a candidate it's someone like Tim Walz. old, white, trustworthy, and a "too old for this shit" attitude.
-
He’s young, an eloquent speaker, a sharp debater.
Those things only matter to nerds.
Everyone else will see "Butt" in his name and giggle
-
-
Yes, the Dems are fatally infected by AIPAC and are best put out of their misery. That said, given the people voted for Trump, they're unlikely to vote for AOC. She doesn't appeal to knuckle-draggers.
-
interesting fact: NY 14th district voted for Trump AND for AOC in 2024.
similar split ticket voters can be found across the country.
Trump represented change, violent chaotic change, but change nonetheless. mainstream Dems cannot (will not) offer that. however progressives like AOC at least promise to fight for change.
your point stands still, just worth considering that Trump voters are not a monolith, neither are AOC voters.
what they have in common: they both want CHANGE.
-
You've hit the nail on the head, and I sit and have this and other similar conversations with my brother, and they always boil down to change. And it's a devil you know kind of argument, but the devil we know (establishment politics) has whittled away at the middle class consistently since it's explosion in the 1950s. And it's more than just policy, but down more to things like interpretation of the constitution and separation of powers.
And so we are in for a wild ride, and the smart thing for Democrats to do would be to put up their own candidate who stands to be the antithesis of Trump, and not this amalgamation of populist ideals, but a platform for change across the board. I like AOC for that, but we won't get that. We will get another establishment Democrat who tries to run on the same policies they just lost on, or whose platform is blanket undoing of Trump policy. The Democrats need to not be an anti-Trump party and instead be an actual progressive party.
-
-
Trump won mostly because of an apathetic Democrat voter. We don't need to win over republicans, we need to energize people who didn't vote.
-
Yep, 45% of eligible voters stayed home, and exit polling showed a radically different picture of the average american than even most of the people here on leftist sites like Lemmy want to acknowledge.
The average American is tuned out, they don't care about politics because it's too complex, too stupid, too controversial and too easy to feel like you're being lied to. So as a result we had millions and millions of people who voted on grocery prices and egg prices as their primary concern, and said Trump seemed like a "better shot" because the prices seemed bad under Biden and Harris just seemed like more Biden.
They didn't care about criminal investigations, about character or morality, they didn't care about Ukraine and they sure as shit didn't care about Palestine. (Maybe some did, but not in a meaningful way that connected votes to outcomes.) The average american works 6 days a week, spends their one day off taking care of their family and home, and catches a few hours of social media before bed. They read a few memes on facebook and that informs their politics.
Guys, out there in lemmyland, you need to listen to this next part and internalize it. Roll it around under your tongue until you get it: many voters said they would have voted for Bernie Sanders if he ran, but saw Trump as a close contender.
Our nation's political acumen has been surgically removed. This was by design. The bulk of this country doesn't hold onto strong political values. They shift and bend with whatever happens, and don't give a shred of a shit about hypocrisy and consistency.
We do not win this nation with smart, progressive candidates who have educations and experience. We win with characters and celebrity and face-value, direct, dumb messaging. The median voter doesn't care about outcomes unless it impacts them immediately and noticeably. People may want to be good and do right deep inside their hearts, but at the polls people look at their wallets first, and connect that with the last meme they saw.
We need to be smarter in the background and dumber on stage.
-
-
-
Well yeah: America Is a conservative, religious country. Always has been
-
As a non-conservative and non-christian american, i approve of this comment.
-
-
Really, how do we get viable third parties? How do we change the voting system to not have " spoiler candidates "? The binary is rotting us.
-
You push for ranked choice voting initiatives in your state. You grow the party locally, get people into city councils, state legislatures, the house of reps before gunning for the presidency.
We have no third party candidates in the house, an institution with 435 members + some extra non voting ones. There's a few non-affiliated, but no true third parties. If you can't get someone in there, you shouldn't bother wasting time and money on the presidency.
-
You go out and work in the primaries.
Look at AOC. The guy she ousted was a mainstay of the NY Democratic Party for decades.
If you wait until the general election you get no input.
-
But that's not the end of it as this still maintains the binary. First, what are the measures for getting third parties on the ballot? Second, how do we get rid of the fptp system so that we can actually vote for candidates we like, rather than the lesser of two evils?
Edit: I responded too quickly at work, and fixed it up later.
-
-
We're nowhere near to it. It has to be a grassroots effort from convincing all of our population it is necessary. Because neither the DNC or the RNC really want it. More parties means they lose power. The DNC pretends to not be opposed, but they undermine third parties all the time. We have to fix first past the post, and neither party is going to help with that.
-
how do we get viable third parties?
By having a third party that's willing to put in the work and do things the right way.
So, instead of having a do-nothing candidate like Jill Stein who shows up right before every election, then disappears again after only obtaining a half of a single percent of the total votes, we'd have to have a third party that started focusing on winning local/state elections. That would allow them to start having more than ZERO members in the houses of Congress, which is currently the case. And once they have members in Congress, from various districts around the country, then they'd have a real chance at running a presidential candidate who can win.
Make no mistake. Anyone that currently votes for a 3rd party candidate for president is an utter fool. And there are A LOT of them on Lemmy. A 3rd party cannot win. They are nowhere near winning. Because they haven't put in the work to create a coalition to actually start having a presence in our government.
-
Not by going directly for a moonshot at the presidency. You spend years getting people involved in local politics, then work your way up. State and local governments have power, even if it's "boring".
That or a coup or other violent, abrupt, wildcards.
-
1.) Federally and statewide, you've got to vote for the party that isn't making Ranked Choice or Star voting illegal, for starters.
2.) Locally, third parties have to actually run local candidates. They are a vanity party otherwise.
If you can't manage those two things, math & chaos theory guarantees that you'll never have a 3rd party.
-
I want Approval Votingand Sequential Proportional Approval Voting, but will support any electoral reform referendum or bill.
-
-
How? Probably not via voting in 2028 or holding a sign. As in, not within the pre-existing failing/failed system. This one isn't gonna recover.
After the people are in charge of the smouldering ashes, you can start from scratch! The one upside. Assuming USA doesn't just submit passively and end up like Russia with a broken people for centuries, which is what I'm expecting.
Copy Canadians. Including the limits on campaign length, so your news cycle isn't so endlessly exhausting. No wonder 1/3rd have totally tuned out. IMO scrap FPTP like we didn't have the balls to do.
-
Have you considered just having like a local group organized around something like pro-labor or just the community in general.
Elect officers or organize how you think best. Call meeting invite guess to speak to issues you all like. When elections come around try to solicit questions to all the campaigns. Have the organization vote as a group on who to endorse or not at all.
If it's worth the effort, work the campaigns for the folks you all endorse.
More people did that stuff then starting a third party in state would be easy. From there you go forward. If you do well or brand then you may have others in their region wanting to do the same. National two parties are federations of these groups with more binding Charters.
Many States have these hurdles for recognized political parties but they can't stop folks from just organizing how they want.
-
What you need is a Bernie Sanders funding his own political party, then recruit the AOC and likes. Then they constantly for 20 years present on themselves and refuse to compromise with Democrats and call them on their bullshit whatsoever.
But idk why they didn't do it sad for you
-
-
Okay but the point is they should've been able to run a wet paper bag against Trump and win.
-
Dems chose someone worse than a wet paper bag.
-
It wasn't the wrong candidate, it was the wrong campaign.
The Dems stood in front of an electorate crippled by 4 years of rising cost of living and said "Look how good the economy is! GDP is up! Employment is up!" The electorate said "We can't afford eggs," and the Dems said "Shut the fuck up our economy is great how dare you say otherwise you worthless peasant!"
The Dems never stopped to consider that high GDP is meaningless if all the money ends up in the hands of billionaires and high employment is meaningless if everyone is working three jobs to make rent. Biden refused to allow any daylight between himself and Kamala on any issue, so they ended up just presenting a new wrapper on the same shit sandwich.
Trump meanwhile said "I hear you, everything is too expensive. I'll solve it by blaming immigrants and doing some magic involving something called tariffs that I promise will make everything cheaper." Now, none of that is actually a solution, but that didn't matter, because when you yell "Help, I'm drowning!" and one person says "No you're not", while the other says "Yes you are and it's because of brown people..." you don't really listen to anything past the "Yes you are," because the point is they apparently want to help you and the other person doesn't. Trump didn't need to have workable solutions, because the Dems forfeited the entire contest before it even started. Trump just had to show up and sit in the chair.
-
I dunno. Pretty sure a wet paper bag would have been better than a felon rapist traitor who's shitting on our Constitution and tanking our economy.
-
-
🔴
-
-
Democrats would rather lose their power "temporarily" than lose their influence permanently with a progressive.
We need a third party like four months ago. We are running out of time to challenge the standing democrats.
-
Let’s make it happen through joining the Equal Vote Coalition, we can enable third parties to have a greater chance at winning this way.
Help start a ballot initiative in your state here.
-
We already have multiple.
inb4 Russia: liberals will say that about any new party, too
-
First past the post can only be beaten if you manage to swell enough support for a third party to be viable and not split your vote. And because of maths, this is a huge obstacle to overcome.
Some back seat democracy for ya (I am not from the US, from Australia): you need to hammer on about voting reform, and mostly voting reform, until you have it. This needs to be the number one issue in everyone's minds until you have it.
"We need to beat Trump" is a band-aid at best, and is unlikely to win over any conservative voters to your cause (and, you will need them to get a third party to have any chance, in my opinion).
Your system is beyond repair without it (in my opinion).
Y'all need preferential voting, and/or proportional representation. Or whatever change means future reform is possible.
You already have multiple parties, who each stand no chance against the spoiler effect without a massive campaign to get democratic voters (and maybe some Republican voters) to switch to it.
Anything short of that means you'll get another Republican government.
And at this rate, this means your barely-counts-as-a-democracy will be dead.
-
Just here to point out that the 3rd party candidate with the most votes was Jill Stein with a whopping half of a single percent of the total votes cast.
There is no viable 3rd party. And there won't be until they start working to get elected at the local/state level and start getting members in Congress.
-
-
We need a third party like four months ago.
Then tell one to do the back-breaking work over decades to start having members in Congress so they have a shot at winning a presidential election.
There isn't some cheat code for a 3rd party candidate to become president.
-
-
We have two corporate parties, the status quo and the controlled opposition. They occasionally switch labels but until we get the corporate out, we will never have a real choice.
-
Of course they will. Liberalism is a center-right ideology, they're closer to fascists than leftists.
-
so you'll campaign against them for one reason or another and help trump to a historic third term?
-
As time goes on, I think it's less and less strange our dominant conservative party is called the "Liberal" Party of Australia.
They practically the same party as the democrats. So I guess the name makes sense.
The US is so far right it hurts and Australia is not even that left wing these days.
The only thing I'm proud of is that our media is practically 100% right-wing/corporate interest captured, and we STILL manage to elect left of centre governments from time to time.
Preferential voting is something very near and dear to my heart.
-
It's just a way to get minorities to vote for you.
-
Their good old performative "Fight for Equality" which very pointedly ignores Wealth Inequality and Wealth Discrimination which curiously, are not only the biggest of them all by a huge margin, but are even the mechanisms that multiply many-fold the negative consequences (and hence the hurt) from other kinds of inequality and discrimination, AND stop the descendants of the victims of past discrimination from pulling themselves out from the hole past discrimination threw their ancestors into (in simple terms: if you were thrown into poverty by discrimination, the poverty keeps the hurt going even after the discriminatory actions have stopped and will make it very likely your descendants are stuck there and keep on suffering).
They're literaly doing the very minimum (when measured by actual effects) they can for Equality whilst claiming they're "Fighting for Equality" as loud as they can, in order to claim they're "helping the disfavored" and hence are there for the many not the few.
-
-
-
harris is polling at like the second most popular frontrunner for 2028 it's delusional to think if harris gets the nomination it's because she wasn't popular
-
"They will put up x candidates I dislike"
Vote in the fucking primaries then, holy shit. Make a progressive win the primaries for the love of God please
-
Vote in the fucking primaries then, holy shit.
They won't.
-
-
Back in the day, Abraham Lincoln did not vow to end slavery if elected.
Frederick Douglas worked for Lincoln, because Lincoln was the best candidate.
-
We tried working with the lesser evil and it doesn't work anymore.
-
And the lesson is that Lincolns willingness to placate the slavers got him killed and prolonged the suffering of the Amerikas black population. You can support a lesser of two evils, but they will not support you.
-
-
It'll be Shapiro or Blinken. Its still all about the $$ at the DNC. Nothing else matters.
-
Or Newsome
-
They probably like Newsom even more after he sat down and platformed Bannon and Kirk, as if giving a voice to open and unashamed Nazis isn't disqualifying.
-
I really hope not. He's as corpo as corpo gets.
-
-
Yeah I agree. It’s really two flavors of the billionaire supporters and no real second party.
-
-
You mean Hilary. This is clearly the chance to beat that dead horse again!
-
They already could have had a progressive candidate in 2016. They chose otherwise.
-
and conspire to defeat whatever progressive is winning, even though they’ll be the only one that can defeat trump’s third term
-
Personally, I would be ok with J.B. Pritzker. Don't love that he's a billionaire. On the other hand, he's the best governor Illinois has had in ages and seems to be trying to do right by his constituents.
-
I would not be happy about Pritzker as the dem nominee...
...Because then he wouldn't be my governor anymore :(
Pritzker's the man. It pains me to praise a billionaire but he's been an AWESOME governor. Wish we could get a Pritzker-type for Chicago mayor instead of these chucklefucks we keep electing.
-
Democrats are going to push even harder to appeal to Republicans in 2028 by nominating David Duke.
-
How can you say that when Rod Blagojevich is there… with his hand out… asking for a bribe?
-
-
Writing was on the wall here. Need to get rid of the dinosaurs to have any chance at all.
-
AOC might not want to be POTUS though? It’s odd how many people have decided this for her.
-
That just makes her more qualified!
— Plato
-
she said she doesnt want to be, felt like the house is a better situation for her. much like harris other vp candidates, one of them wasnt keen on being her vp at the moment, probably read the room.
-
-
I have no intention of voting for anyone less than a progressive. The moderates will only slow America's falling off a cliff, they have no intention on stopping or reversing course.
-
Silly to think our votes will ever count again
-
If the fascists truly believed your votes don't/won't count in the future, they wouldn't be working so hard to take away voting rights.
I think we're dangerously close to a point where voting won't matter, but we're not there yet. Look at the Wisconsin Supreme Court race a few weeks ago. Elon Musk got involved and personally spent more than $25 million to try to buy the race. He was directly paying off voters to vote for the Republican. There was nearly $100 million spent on the race, an overwhelming majority of which was spent by/for the Republican.
Yet the Democrat won with like 10 percentage points more of the vote. She blew the Musk funded fascist out of the water. It wasn't even close.
If voting really didn't matter at all, do you really think that would have been the outcome?
If voting really didn't matter at all, would they be actively trying to strip voting rights away from women right now?
Don't fall for the fascist propaganda. Voting still matters. It's not the only thing that matters. We should all be way more engaged in politics than merely voting. But voting still matters, too.
-
All good points. I hope you’re right but our civil rights are being stripped very fast
-
-
-
Get ready for the next DNC nominee no longer being the "lesser evil"!
-
Aoc said she would stay in the HOUSE, felt like she could do more there than the presidency, or governership.
-
-
For the record, I voted for her because she wasn't Trump. As a voter, I didn't much appreciate being assigned a Democratic candidate instead of given a chance to vote for one. I was even less thrilled about her insistence on cozying up to the likes of Liz Cheney because the DNC arrogantly thought they could court Republicans who didn't like Trump. Add in her denial that there's a genocide going on in Palestine or that the average American was economically hurting despite a booming stock market and you could probably see why not many people liked her.
-
I like that America chose to microscopically analyze and criticize Harris while a felon rapist traitor who shits on our Constitution and tanks our economy waltzed into the Oval Office.
Sounds like you ended up making the right decision, but so many others didn't. Couldn't see the forest for the trees. Because America is dumb.
-
-
Yeah man I'm sure Winston Churchill, the drunken failure who lost his own easiest possible post WW2 election to Clement Attlee, is totally not blaming his loss to the voters and not his failure to run a proper public campaign.
Harris was a good candidate
Which is why she willingly chose to ignore millions of constituent demands, and banned an entire Democratic party ethnic base from partaking in the DNC because "fuck you, kiss Israel's ass lol".
And that defnitley didn't backfire at all because voters love being told to eat shit and vote for the lesser evil, especially after not being able to participate in a primary where a candidate people actually wanted could at least be voted on.
-
The bottom line is America isn't going to jeopardize their allegiance with Israel. They're our most important ally in the Middle East.
So what you're really saying is you would have preferred if Democrats lied like Republicans and said during the election that they would put their foot down regarding Israel, only to take that back once elected.
And honestly, I would agree with you. So many dumbasses in this country chose to vote 3rd party or not vote because of the whole Israel/Palestine thing that now a felon rapist traitor who shits on our Constitution and tanks our economy is president. So yeah, I kinda wish Democrats just pulled a Republican move and blatantly lied about their intentions during the election and then walked it all back after winning.
Single issue voters/abstainers make me nauseous. Especially when so much is on the line.
And now we're learning the hard way.
-
-
Harris represented the Democratic party, but conceded numerous Republican talking points like immigration, highlighted that she was a gun owner, and campaigned with the Cheneys. Kamala refused to take a strong stance on Gaza giving little more than lip service to Palestinians and their supporters, rarely talked about ideas like universal healthcare or wealth inequality, and dismissed the general concerns about the economy.
Voters failed, yes. They failed to turn out and prevent the obvious danger of another Trump presidency or were ignorant enough to vote for him. However, the Democratic leadership also failed. They hid the state of Joe Biden from the public until the last minute. They failed to engage their base and, for the third election in a row, boosted a middling candidate over progressive candidates and then relied on negative campaigni against Trump to provide enough of a turnout.
-
i felt the israel thing has much less of effect on voters than you think, maybe in Michigan, but both parties wholely support the genocide, so theres not much issue there. its the constant attack by msm on biden and harris throughout the campaign
-
Every time a progressive candidate has run in a primary they lost. The American public is one Facebook ad away from voting for a face eating Leopard. If they really wanted universal Healthcare they would have voted it by now. Voters failed, the dems run with the candidate that had the most chances of winning. And then the voters failed again. Twice.
-
-
If that's the case then we should just give up, because people are going to be fucking idiots like they've always been, so we'll never get anyone good in office ever.
-
It's no use. Americans would much rather place blame on a candidate, one that was INFINITELY better than the other, than accept responsibility as an electorate for failing.
Harris was perfectly fine. A successful prosecutor with a doctorate in law. She would have continued a progressive agenda. She would have maintained economic stability. I'm sure it wouldn't have been as progressive as many would like, but certainly better than our current state of affairs with a president who shits all over our Constitution and is tanking our economy 3 months in.
The bottom line is the American electorate failed an open book test. Too many fools who chose to become single issue voters. Too many fools who thought it would be wise to vote for a 3rd party in a presidential election, despite having literally ZERO chance of winning. Too many fools who abdicated their responsibility as citizens in a democracy because they weren't pleased with their options. This was one of, if not the easiest, election we'll ever have in our lives. And we failed. Because we aren't a very intelligent society.
-
She ran hard to the right, abandoning all of her previously stated progressive beliefs. She would have continued the shitty economy that Americans were upset with. She said she wouldn't do anything different than a highly unpopular president.
Of course Americans blame the candidate, as they should. Her entire job was to get elected, opposing one of the least popular presidents we've ever had, and she lost. It should have been a slam dunk for her, but she gave all of that up, for money and genocide.
-
This was one of, if not the easiest, election we’ll ever have in our lives
If you honestly believe this then the next 50 years are going to be a WILD ride for you
-
-
I can understand why a German would think a far right cop was a good candidate in general, but no. She was a terrible candidate for anyone not voting republican.
-
the dnc did underestimate hispanics and black male voters, who are traditionally conservative and culturally sexist as well. of course the constant propaganda dint help harris: roegan and griftersd.
-
-
They will.
They're stupid people.
-
Of course they will. Either pick them or they'll send it all to hell. Even now they probably think this Trump stint will make voters desperate for their next candidate.
-
Captive audience, it’s why they felt so confident cozying up to Republicans like the Cheneys, because what are the left going to do, not vote?
It’s great really, you perpetuate a problem and constantly blame the people trying to actually bring about much needed change for the problem.
-
many of the DInos benefit from the same donors as the gop, im betting the megadonors at least implied threatening to cut them off if they dont support trump.
-
-
-
I highly recommend reading Ezra Klein's latest book "Abundance" for a look at why the DNC has been losing the working class. It also offers some optimistic ideas for moving forward.
-
For the whole history of democratic primaries, the nominee was always the one that received the most votes. It probably of doesn't have to be, but it always is. "they" in question are people of America who know more than nothing about how democracy in their country works.
Progressives are going to bitch and moan about how nobody does what they want, but will refuse to participate in the very process designed to ask them what they want.
It's almost like some idiots on the internet don't want change, they want to be oppressed.-
I've voted in every Democratic primary since I could vote for Kucinich. State and local, too. When does participation mean they care what I think?
-
There is a very lovely pattern I see. Every time there is a conversation on the internet, everyone totally always voted and participated and canvassed and run and also fed the homeless at the same time, and every time there are any elections upcomming, there is no end to the constant anti-democracy messages about how voting is pointless and nobody should do that because both sides.
In the end, around 20% of registered voters are voting in democratic primaries, and I repeat my thesis, every time the nominee was the person who got the most votes, every time. So the answer to your question - they already care what you think, and if more people were agreeing with you, then maybe they would do what you want. So far they're doing what majority of voters wants, and that's not on the shadowy democratic demons, it's on majority.
-
-
323 comments