Harris vows at Michigan rally to ‘do everything in my power to end the war in Gaza’
Harris vows at Michigan rally to ‘do everything in my power to end the war in Gaza’
I've already voted for her, but I don't believe her.
This is a vague plea for peace without any indication of what things she believes (and more importantly, publicly acknowledges) would be "in her power". Is the limit of her power sternly worded letters, arms embargoes, or intervention? Because I'm pretty sue she's not opening the door for US peacekeeping troops in Gaza, though that would be in her power (at least for a short term).
But like, with Harris we get to see if she's willing to do anything meaningful, and maybe as public sentiment continues to turn against Israel she'll be embarrassed enough to do something. It's not a hopeful position to shoot for, but it is technically better than the alternative, and there other issues at play where the difference is not so limited.
The campaign has been changing its tone depending on audience. In places like Michigan they're doing this, but outside seing districts they've been banging the war drums for Israel.
So the lack of faith in the messaging isn't without warrant.
The campaign has been changing its tone depending on audience.
Yes, it's this shady practice called, "campaigning".
Yes specifically when they think her ads in different states with different messaging are not going to be shown around.
https://www.foxnews.com/video/6364100748112
She represent the regular two faced career politician, which should work in regular election, but the Israel genocidal work in Gaza and war crimes expose these politician.
Bibi hates her, so that’s a good start.
Kind of a day late dollar short scenario
I mean I already voted for Harris because I don't wanna die in a Trump Brand Concentration Camp, but, she really couldn't have said this any fucking sooner?
She had to wait until the day before the election so that AIPAC doesn't have enough time to ratfuck her for it.
Unfortunately, that's how things work here if you're critical of Israel in any way.
Instead the majority of people who oppose genocide have seen how she has continued to pledge her support. They have seen how children, women and men have been blown to shreds and burned alive with weapons the Biden-Harris administration has sent.
This reeks more of a desperate attempt to peddle to voters now that she realizes genocide is indeed a red line for some voters
Trump Brand Concentration Camp is very apt. It succinctly expresses that the whole thing exists only for his personal monetary gain and he's escalating to extremes for his grift.
The genocide in Gaza.
It is not useful for Harris to call the genocide a genocide because it would hurt her chances of being elected. If Trump is elected instead of Harris, the genocide will continue until all Palestinians are dead.
Since we want the genocide to end before all Palestinians are dead it is not useful to demand that Harris calls the genocide a genocide because that hurts the chances of the genocide ending while Palestinians are still alive.
I understand how politics works, and I can understand some of the many complications and consequences involved, but words have meaning, and meaning conveys truth.
So if you want to represent the nuanced, complex (one sided) world of real politik, then that is certainly a good exercise. "in my power" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, especially since she's committed to, let's say, bend the truth quite a bit with this sentence.
But skepticism alone isn't analysis. I think by saying this she is trying to lure over "Uncommitted" conscientious objectors who are on the fence and may withhold their vote. But by not speaking strongly enough, she will never reach the vast majority of those people. This assurance feels empty to me. She's not an ardent supporter of Palestinians, but who can see the future? Events are rapid and things change, "We exist in a context, all that.
But there are disadvantages to people only taking political action by way of their votes, and maybe this is one of them.
I hope she wins. But if she doesn't the dems will blame those same voters, along with Greens (which, whatever) and any other third party voters instead of coming to grips with their many many failings over the last 8 - 10 years.
This reads as a joke but it’s actually true 😂
Since we want the genocide to end before all Palestinians are dead it is not useful to demand that Harris calls the genocide a genocide
Fucking liberalism in a nutshell.
Step 1: FOLLOW US LAW AND STOP GIVING THEM WEAPONS
Let's see if she ever gets this far. I am not holding my breath
Apparently no one in the comments has been paying attention. She's been saying these same lines about Gaza since the convention speech.
There's been a lot of FUD about it and .ml has been running wild denying anything even remotely pro peace from her.
At any rate literally all we need at this point is a president that tells Netanyahu he either accepts a negotiated return of remaining hostages and withdraws or he loses our weapons support.
But Biden is also doing his best to pump up their ammo supply so the next president actually doesn't have the influence Biden could have had. It's 2024 and I'm ashamed we didn't learn from supporting South Africa and Iran into the flames. They've been shamelessly giving Israel our best military technology with no regard to their political situation. College students called this as the most likely path 2 decades ago, and here we are appearing to be caught by surprise.
Fun fact, there's a 2008 law that specifically forces the president to give Israel all the best military hardware.
It was passed by W on his way out the door, and due to the Democratic party being compromised as hell, there's never been enough votes to get rid of it, and any time the president might want to hold things back, they get sued under that law.
It’s 2024 and I’m ashamed we didn’t learn from supporting South Africa and Iran into the flames.
We did learn. Just all the wrong lessons. Iran taught us that you can ride a wave of hate for 50 years. South Africa taught us that you crack down on the BDS movement day one and keep the media on lock for your Apartheid friends.
3rd party voters: "I'm not voting for Harris until she condemns the Gaza war!"
Harris: says she condemns the Gaza war*
3rd party voters: desperate scrambling sounds to find something else to be a single issue contrarian*
I'm really hoping I'm wrong about that, but I'm seeing it on this thread.
Have you been to a protest or talked to pro-Palestinian voices. The demand has always been to stop weapons shipments to Israel, even before October 7th. This isn't moving the goal posts, the goal posts have been there for decades, it's just both parties have and continue to ignore them.
Strawmen are the only kind of people they have rebuttals to, not any actual thinking humans.
I mean for context something like 70 million early voters already cast their ballot, so this quite literally cannot change their vote and that number is roughly half of the entire votes cast the entire last election. So in all likelihood, roughly half the people you're mad at can't react at all because of how long she waited.
Third-party voters as a whole don't matter nearly as much as the handful of Muslims in Michigan that this message is directed towards. Also, this message is not significantly different than what she's been saying since the DNC. Her big misstep wasn't her messaging on Gaza; it was ignoring the Uncommitted leaders entirely.
Yep, the Democrats didn't even allow a Palestinian to speak at the DNC, but they had how many Republican politicians come on stage?
The Democrats have ignored the Muslim/Arab community almost entirely this election cycle, and are now freaking out because their Status-Quo policy decisions might have cost them the election.
And when you point this out on Lemmy, you're screamed at for being a Trump supporter and wanting Gaza leveled. No, we just wanted our party leadership to reflect the wants of the majority of their constituents for once.
Seems a little too little too late for it to move the needle much, especially given how much early voting has happened. Harris’s position on Israel has been so bizarre, pretty sure Israel has even been actively working against Democrats this whole time anyways.
Way to late and it's ridiculous she waited till desperation to take a good stance.
It's basically the same pattern Biden followed. Even when he did fits and starts of good things, it was way too late and only felt like he was doing it for political reasons, not because he had a change of heart.
Peace has always been her call. We have yet to see how she would work for it because she isn't in the hot seat yet. We have a choice between someone calling for peace, but not really pro Palestinian, and someone calling for ultra death squads.
Grow up.
IIRC she said she wouldn't remain silent, and then didn't really say anything committal or concrete.
It's completely in her power to stop whitewashing a genocide and creating false equivalences by calling it a "war".
Not if she wants to get elected. I've said since the convention that they're trying their best to not piss off either side and that's mostly been their strategy. Even when she's releasing statements on the death of Hamas and Hezbollah leaders she's very careful to say, as an American leader, I'm glad this dude, who killed Americans, is dead.
Of course that was evidence of her being a flaming Zionist to people who want Trump elected.
Not until after the election. She's walking a wire trying to get nonMAGA republicans to vote for her in order to save Democracy. They need to at least pretend to believe she won't completely abandon Israel. If she can beat Trump, she'll then be free to call a genocide a genocide. In any case, Trump wants to end the war by letting his buddy Bibi nuke Gaza and just fucking kill all the Palestinians. A "final solution" as it were.
Lol a comma would really help the end of your first sentence
(It's the second, not the first)
(And now this comment is pointless)
Trump would do the same thing but in his case it means letting Bibi level Gaza and then buying some land to build a tacky resort on it.
Yeah stopping the slaughter is better than completing it.
It won him some Muslim voters though. Yesterday, I saw one interviewed on TV, paraphrasing: "He withdrew troops from Afghanistan, started no wars and promised to end the war in Gaza."
Is it stupid? Yes. Is it what a potentially tipping demographics thinks? Yes.
Source:
Good that needs to happen.
Bruhhhhhhh why the fuck couldnt you say that like 1 or 2 months ago? Why last minute?
In her defense she did say that a couple of times:
But then at times she also said they wont be supporting arms embargo on Israel. Still orders of magnitude better than a lunatic who says he is a actively supporting Israel on doing whatever they want to do:
The fact that some people equate these two candidates based on their Gaza politics is insane.
The only people i kinda get are those with families there. But at the same time my family still voted for the shitty opposition instead of the even shittier leading party when i still lived in hungary even tho their views on trans rights was, lets say, not perfect. This of course mattered because trans rights are the first dominoes and i have a trans family member. So yeah the better option is still better than absolute chaos. Idk why this is so hard to get.
You're still not saying the magic words harris. Repeat after me: 'i will enforce american laws regarding war crimes until israel obeys international laws regarding war crimes and genocide'. You've waited too long and i doubt you'll do it before you need to tomorrow.
Its easy to see how she's more focused on the israel hostages than Palestinian population, a group who as our own diplomatic core has informed the admin shes a part of, will be returned in a ceasefire agreement. Hamas already agreed to return them, at least before israel starting offing those leaders first. Only israel is the issue.
Actually I'm pretty sure you just demanded that she look into the disagreement in Israel. Which she did, so you owe her now. Stop changing your demands! It's your fault they ignore the left. /s
child, shes well aware of whats going on in gaza. they, the biden admin, knows exactly the situation and they know its a genocide. They've known most of this year. I certainly didn't demand she look into it. I'm demanding she apply the US law as written to israel.
We're not in a vacuum. Two things can be true. She can honestly be pro Israel but also hope the turds that are the Likud Party lose power, work to end the genocide, and find a two-state solution - that is, if Hamas and Bibi will allow it, which they won't.
This binary all-or-nothing, zero sum bs is just toxic and ignorant.
Yeah it’s clear she wants a two state solution.
She can honestly be pro Israel but also hope the turds that are the Likud Party lose
I'm not invested in the Likud Party losing if the war continues to expand and drag on.
The issue isn't with her "pro-Israel" policy, it's with her "pro-Genocide" policy. That's what's driving the protests.
And that's the rub. Is she really 'pro genocide'? That is the question
it’s with her “pro-Genocide” policy
What pro-genocide policy? Name one Kamala Harris, pro-genocide policy.
Because it seems to me that she just stated that her goal is to end the genocide. Seems like a pretty counterintuitive way to be "pro-genocide"...
And if you knew anything about politics in Israel, then you would 100% be invested in the Likud Party losing.
Like her ads I'm sure she has a more pro Israel slant in other cities.
Yeah im sure you'll condemn netanyahu as a dictator with an illegitimate claim to power. Im SURE you'll stop selling billions of dollars in weaponry to them. Seriously though, vote Harris
Finally some positive words now for acting on it, if she gets a chance.
In a presidential democracy she has all the power if she wants it.
Literal last minute shilling bruh
If she had said this once like even 2 weeks ago, people might have actually listened
Never even mentioned Republicans.
My point is she spent her entire campaign ignoring this problem until literally the last minute.
People already voted on Sunday in Michigan. Even if you think this would have changed people's minds, she could have said it 2 days ago and still had more effect.
Why do so many people feel the need to announce their blocks on lemmy?
Block me as well. Don't forget the ritualistic reply to my comment publicly announcing your block!
"Sorry, best I can do are harsh words of condemnation."
"Harris slams proponents of war in Gaza"
Still better than Trump by a huge margin.
And I am a prince from Nigeria who will give you money if you send me your information
I'm glad all of the users I've tagged in the past month decided to congregate in this thread to show everyone how full of shit they've been this entire time.
Well done.
Which isn't much, congress controls the money and military aid given. Outside of joining the war and placing our military where IDF is and seeing if that will end war crimes, there's not a lot on the table and Bibi isn't going to take a single threat seriously, he knows the US is chained to Isreal with millions and millions of dollars in lobbying.
Can't remember at the moment what it's called, but there's a law making it illegal for the US to support war crimes. If the president ceased aid to Israel on those grounds, congress would have to be unusually united to override it. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it'd be a difficult fight to pick when Israel is being so brazenly genocidal.
Can’t remember at the moment what it’s called, but there’s a law making it illegal for the US to support war crimes.
The Leahy Law.
Zionism is an ongoing war crime that's around 100 years old.
There are no troops that will stop it by watching.
If you just had said that two months ago, it would have saved me so mando idiotic conversations...
Nah, it would have just kicked the can down the road, leading to accusations that promises mean nothing. UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml is already doing so a post or two below you.
But yeah, she should have said that from the start.
Just lie, these assholes don't really care. -US politicians.
What is even the point of doing anything you promise. Just look at all the shit donald trump didn't do and the toughest questions he had to answer was what his hair routine is.
I'm sure Netanyahu also wants it to end right after he gets his sadistic goals.
As of mid 2024 the lowest estimate I found was >7000 Palestinian children dead, as compared to a highest estimate of <100 Israeli children dead. Any child dead is too many but it shows that this is not a war, it's a slaughter.
I voted for Harris because any alternative is asinine, but we should expect that the arms shipments to Israel will continue unless we pressure our politicians.
Oh thank fuck
trump will do that because there's no way kamala wins at this point
I think it's fair to say we all want the death and suffering to end. I'm curious, however, about the overarching goals of those advocating for Stein and such. Some people have suggested that Russia and China stand to benefit the most from America cutting off support to Israel. Russia has certainly vied for influence in the region and generally picks up whatever America leaves behind for pennies on the Ruble.
To summarize my question: if the US cut off support to Israel with the intent of ending genocide, wouldn't Israel simply partner with Russia or China instead?
I don't see how this helps Gaza, but it seems like to make the situation worse.
If USA stops funding genocide, somebody else will probably. What about russia and china??!?!! Amirite?
It's a chance worth taking. Worst case scenario is that USA opposes a genocide instead of contributing. Best case is that the genocide ends.
What's with the fictional quote?
Ignoring that, I think the best and worst case scenarios are too optimistic.
Worst case: Israel continues war with support from Russia and/or China. US loses influence and ally. Atrocities increase. Violence spreads.
In that case the US can just arm the resistance groups. Nothing bad has ever happened by doing that.
Right?! I think that's probably a real risk
wouldn’t Israel simply partner with Russia or China instead?
Why would either of those countries pick up such a pointless financial burden, though? The US has spent $17.9 billion in military aid just since October 2023. I'm not sure Russia could afford to sustain that sort of spending long-term, and even if they could, what do they get from it? They get another piece of baggage to further isolate them on the international stage, while also conveniently pissing off local Muslim populations they've been cultivating influence with, and potentially stirring things up back home with Muslim separatist groups that have been known to pop off the odd attack or civil war from time to time.
Likewise, China can get all the natural resources Israel could offer them on better terms and at lower cost elsewhere, without any of the drawbacks that backing Israel in the absence of the US would bring them. China already has a presence in the region in relationships with Gulf states, they don't need Israel. What, Israel is going to win them over with some cheaper citrus, or something?
People keep saying, "But what if Russia or China backed Israel instead?" without any reason for either to do so.
Appreciate the insight!
Speaking directly to people with child brains
The replies I'm getting are filled with the broken english and rote talking points of Russian shills
Trump said that too and it apparently won him some Muslim votes. People with child brains are a major undecided demographic.
Edit: I am not saying Muslims are any more child-brained than the general population. As a source for the first sentence, watch this clip from yesterday's Czech TV news (key quotes start at 1:28):
Czech TV is a public source that is trying to be as neutral as possible (which of course helps extreme views as the reporters feel the need to include them). I don't think this coverage is a bad source for a basic understanding of the situation.
Look who comes crawling back after banishing Palestinians at the DNC.
This is the power of not voting for these politicians. They will only listen when they have to earn your vote.
And she only starts pandering after Trump lets Arabs on stage. Funny how that works.
In any case she is VP right now. Trump can lie about anything he wants. He is not in power. Kamala can not.
Save your hollow words. I already voted for Jill Stein.
You voted for trump without admitting to it. The terrible reality of first past the post is the enemy here:
We need a system that doesn't convert votes for the candidate you want into a vote for who you hate the most. It's awful being bound to crappy rules.
Love me some CGP Grey. Glad to see to understand the source of the issue here. Hope you have time to stop by my asklemmy post to discuss how to best resolve this critically flaw voting system after the election.
Bunch of 16 year olds condescending to people "Hey have you heard of the electoral college?!"
"That's Republican, we count those."
All the one-issue voters: uhh... what now?
Well, now Democrats will start coming up with excuses for why conditioning or ceasing arms sales to Netanyahu isn't within her power.
EDIT: I already voted for Harris.
It is within the President's power to use executive authority to halt the military financing to Israel.
(While this could maybebe overruled by congress, it would be a huge blow to Israel in the interim)
Is this the new "I condemn hamas" disclaimer everyone is required to have in their comments in order to criticize the democratic party?
Two days before the election with no substance?
With no time for AIPAC to completely rat fuck the election and get Trump elected. Give her some time to help prevent the destruction of democracy and if she doesn't move on the issue then she'll reap what she sows.
Obama promised he'd close Guantanamo....
This seems about the same
Maybe start saying it outside of Muslim heavy areas and more than two days out and it won't look so much like pandering
Obama was prevented from closing Gitmo by congress. IIRC, a big part of the problem was how to handle the criminal cases; all of the prisoners ("detainees") in Gitmo have been tortured, the chain of evidence has multiple breaks in it, and it's highly debatable that they can be tried in any kind of court. Yet intelligence agencies remain convinced that the remaining prisoners are guilty of terrorism. Congress didn't want to move any of them to the US, because they didn't want purported terrorists being held on US soil because ???
The president isn't supposed to be able to act unilaterally, but we've allowed that Overton window to shift towards heavily authoritarian.
For fuck sake... HE TRIED
It's hilarious how libs think this is any different from what genocide joe has been saying for the past year.
Oh shit, breaking out the hits! Can we throw a "Brandon" in there and get real sentimental about it?
Yeah, Trump would send flowers, right?
Nothing? This is nothing new from her. Its no commitment..its vaguely worded trash.
How does Trump's "You've got to finish the problem" sound? Because to me that's not vague at all.
As someone who is frequently called a single issue voter over a number of different issues:
Ummm what? Her statement was insultingly empty (the entire article is air) and the title contradicts what she's been saying for 6 months. I'm not suddenly about to put a Harris billboard on my lawn
Do they have billboards saying "reluctantly voting Harris out of necessity"?
Yeah I really wish she had been saying this before yesterday.
Easy, they refuse to believe her.
After all, if she didn't sow discord by pointlessly undermining the president while an essentially powerless Vice President, she must love genociding brown people even more than Trump does somehow.
I mean like, I would believe her if she rolled out a plan for how the US is going to stop funding Israel? Or a plan for holding the Israeli military accountable? Or maybe I would believe her if she didn't hold a press conference last week gaslighting us that Israel has to right to defend itself?
She had no problem disagreeing with him when he called Republican voters garbage. She had no problem differing from him when she promised to put a Republican in her cabinet.
It's funny how she can move to his right as much as she wants, but never to his left.
They still won't vote. They don't want to get off the couch. Gaza was just the lowest hanging fruit to pick and stay at home scrolling Facebook.