Are you a 'tankie'
Are you a 'tankie'
edit: this is now closed future comments won't be counted
I keep seeing this instance is overrun with tankies so hey, lets do an informal survey like I've seen on hexbear
respond with YES or NO in the first line of your comment and i'll tally everything in a couple of days, lets say I'll try and collect everything on the sunday the 9th (10+gmt sorry)
not sure thisll work, be nice, have fun
Tankie is a floating signifier. If you ask twenty liberals what a tankie is you’ll get
- Twenty different answers, and
- Several people upset at being called a liberal because they don’t have even a Wikipedia-level understanding of liberalism or socialism.
Yes
Love how all of the tankies on this thread are open about their views while all of the non-tankies are wondering what the term even means, or think that people won't self identify as a tankie. Reminds of that quote from the manifesto
The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.
I'm not from this instance, so probably not totally relevant to this poll, that said
NO, I'm not a tankie.
I think, however, it's worth considering that a lot of people that could be considered tankies probably wouldn't apply the term to themselves, and that could skew the results of your poll. First of all, tankie is sort of a pejorative term, and many wouldn't want to apply it to themselves for that reason alone. Secondly a lot of people just may not consider themselves to be a tankie, and genuinely do not recognize their own tankieness.
I don't think I'm the guy to come up with a definitive checklist of what does or does not make someone a tankie, but for the sake of getting the conversation going (and feel free to disagree with me here, I welcome the discussion) I think two of the biggest hallmarks of being a tankie are
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Communism- not all communists are tankies, but all tankies at least claim to subscribe to some sort of communist ideology.
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Authoritarianism- tankies either are authoritarians themselves, or are willing to support or overlook authoritarians as long as they see them as being in some way opposed to "the west"/capitalism/etc.
I think the authoritarianism aspect is going to trip some people up trying to answer this truthfully. A lot of authoritarians probably wouldn't consider themselves authoritarians, most people like to think they're standing for freedom, justice, liberty, equality, etc. even if their actual actions tell another story. Don't get me wrong, there are people out there who are openly authoritarian and proud of it, but a lot of authoritarians are a little brainwashed to the point they've lost sight of what they're actually supporting (take a look at the MAGA crowd, they think they're about free speech and anti-censorship but want to keep books they don't like out of libraries, they think they're about small government but want to regulate what kind of medical care you can get, they think they stand for law and order but also proudly proclaim that they are all domestic terrorists and have a convicted felon as their poster boy)
And politics are messy, full of moral grey areas and times where you have to choose between the lesser of two evils, make uncomfortable alliances, difficult choices, and kick some cans further down the road to deal with later while you tackle the current crisis. It's not always easy or feasible to draw a crisp line in the sand and say "we will not ally with/support/turn a blind eye to these authoritarian regimes," sometimes you have to play a little bit of the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" game if you want to actually make any progress against that enemy, or you may have to prioritize and deal with something else before you deal with them. There is a whole lot of grey area to explore about when, why, how, how long, and how much you can support or ignore them before you're advancing their cause as much or more than your own.
I think there's probably some tankies who have been taken for a ride on the propaganda wagon and don't truly realize how authoritarian they are, and there's others who have justified it, thinking that they're only going to be/support authoritarians temporarily to achieve a specific goal and will pivot away from that later, but have gone too far or keep moving the goalposts.
Couple last thoughts from me.
There can always be bad actors who are falsely claiming to be (or not to be) tankies for their own purposes. Not really much you can do about that.
Personally, a lot of the criticism I've seen about tankies here has been directed towards the mods and admins, not necessarily the rank average users.
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"Tankie" in the traditional sense of someone who uncritically supports the USSR in the handling of 1956's uprising? Probably not.
While Kruschev's use of tanks in 1956 was heavy handed, the Hungarian alliance with the Axis in WWII and participation of Operation Barbarossa, lingering fascist sympathisers and nationalists remained in Hungary.
This coupled with the Communist Party of Hungary's less than equitable redistribution of land/castles/other properties earlier in the 1950's (favouring giving properties to ranking CPH members instead of distributing it to the proletariat equally). This created resentment for the Party, and an image of the Communists as no better than the Monarchy that came before or the Fascists that came after.
The Hungarian uprising had elements of fascist sympathisers, monarchists, bourgeoisie, etc but also legitimate critics of the handling of the situation. It never should have come to that, and a more educated/self critical Communist Party in Hungary could have prevented things from getting that far. The people should have benefitted a lot more from a better redistribution of wealth.
The above issues coupled with Soviet distrust of Hungarians (since they did invade the Soviet Union in the 40's) led to a swift and harsh reaction towards the uprising, seeing it as just a reactionary revolt.
Now, am I a tankie in the Reddit redefinition, of anyone that critically supports Cuba, China, Vietnam and their style of government? Yeah, I suppose I am. This is no more radical a position than Malcolm X or the Black Panthers who also supported the late USSR, China and Cuba.
YES
They would have burned me as a heretic in the middle ages.
- Carl Jung
Just like calling someone a "witch" or heretic in the middle ages, a "barbarian", or "savage", or "commie" or "pinko" in the 20th century, these terms are less about the actual meaning, and more about a demonization, scapegoating, or a power relation between the dominant class, and a group they seek to malign and rally their people around.
Creating a useful enemy promotes group bonding, unity, a sense of strengthened identity, and self worth.
"Tankie" had a meaning that generally referred to non-pacifist leftists (or those that agreed with using violence to defend socialist projects), but now it just means, "any leftist I don't like".
It functions in the exact same way that "commie" did in the the McCarthy era, as a xenophobic and western-supremacist scapegoating of socialist countries, and an internal purging of the working-class communist movement.
It's additionally useful because it deters people from reading or engaging with the worldwide communist / socialist movement.
If someone uses this term, this is what they're doing without realizing it:
NO
Tankie is a meaningless word. If you point out China has undeniably made progress under communism, you’re a tankie. If you point out Stalin wasn’t the evil dictator westerners make him out to be (even though it’s disproven by the literal CIA itself) you’re a tankie, if you think capitalism is causing problems in the USA you’re a tankie. If you criticise US or NATO foreign policy you’re a tankie. If you criticise the Republicans you’re a Tankie. If you criticise the Dems, guess what also a tankie. If you think that the USSR and the PRC are/were perfect little angels that never made any mistakes or did anything wrong ever then you’re also a Tankie.
It’s just too broad a term for me or anyone to identify with any way. It’s not an ideology. It’s a dumb insult to dismiss the opinions of others you disagree with without having to engage with their point at all or critically analyse your own beliefs in any meaningful way.
Yes, although I personally prefer "central planning enthusiast".
I think we're approaching the point where the word gets taken back by the community it was used to malign, if not there already. "
Yes.
The last time I smiled was on August 19th, 1991. I wear a dirty ushanka at all times, do not shave, and only take cold sponge baths because hot running water is bourgeoisie decadence. Every day at exactly noon I have the same meal of an expired Maoist MRE I store in a pit covered in old issues of a revolutionary newspaper. I sleep in a bed made of flags from every failed revolution so that they are never forgotten. In the evenings I stare at a picture of vodka by candlelight, but I do not allow myself to drink because there is nothing to celebrate. Every local org has banned me after I attempted to split it by assassinating the leadership. There is no plumbing in my house I shit in a brass bucket with a picture of Gonzalo and Deng french kissing in the bottom of it. My house is actually an overturned T34 in an abandoned junkyard in Wisconsin. I have a single friend in this world and it is a tapeworm named Bordiga that I met after ingesting spoiled borscht on 9/11 in the ruins of building 7 (I blew it up after finding that a nominally leftist NGO inside of it wasn’t sufficiently anti-imperialist, the attacks on the world trade center were a perfect revolutionary moment for me to enact direct praxis against liberalism). My source of income is various MLM schemes in the former soviet bloc that have been running for so long no one remembers who I am, they just keep sending money. I have not paid taxes since McGovern lost the Democratic nomination for president and my faith in electoralism died more brutally than my childhood dog after it got into an entire jar of tylenol. I own 29 fully automatic rusted kalashnikovs and three crates of ammunition entirely incompatible with them or any other firearms I own. My double PHD in marxist economics and 18th century Swiss philosophy (required to understand Engels) sits over the fireplace of my home, my fireplace is a salvaged drum from a 1950s washing machine that was recalled for locking children inside of it. I chose that washing machine model on purpose because I am anti-natalist. During the latest BLM protests I firebombed a Nikes outlet in the middle of a peaceful candlelit vigil. William F Buckley and I wrote hatemail to one another for 47 years until my final letter gave him an aneurysm. The only water I drink is from puddles. George Lucas and I dropped acid together during an MKULTRA southern baptist summer camp and he went on to write the movie Willow about our time together. The best way to test whether an electrical wire is live is to drool on it and shrimp salad is racist. You can make an IED out of potassium and the instructions are online thanks to Timothy McVey, who was actually a committed antifascist communist slandered by the deep state as part of operation condor. Every time a liberal files a restraining order against me, I carve a mark into the wall. I am running out of walls. When Amerika finally collapses I will be ready to lead the revolution. I am very smart and people like being around me.
on the one hand: there is no such thing as a tankie, the word doesn't mean anything besides "person to the left of me whom i disagree with"
on the other hand: hell yeah i'm a tankie
Death to America
Anarchist. I look forward to being kill by tankies moments after the revolution.
No I'd rather be morally righteous and sit on my ass and blame "the left" as the world collapses.
yes
but no in the way you mean
I am, just not in the way NATO loving liberals distort claim. Looking at this picture of Germany celebrating Israel genocide, Stalin should not have stopped at Berlin. This country was also caught with 140 members of USA Nazi band Hammerskins in recent years.
No, i'm not a tankie, i wasn't even born yet in 1956 not to mention i'm not British.
Idk. I'm really bad at history and such cause I never pay attention. I used to take everything I saw on the internet at face value, so I decided to slow down on current news. Doesn't help that I like programming and video games a lot, so I don't spend a lot of time thinking about world events.
I just like communities that are tolerant and won't let people bully the lgbt or the disabled. It feels less tiring.
Maybe?
What the heck is a tankie, anyways? Every person I have asked has had a different answer, and the vast majority of these definitions don't really fit any major communities on Lemmy, not even Hexbear or Lemmygrad.
I have been called a tankie for numerous reasons, like saying that people should read Marx, to saying the US is a net negative on global stability.
Is being a Marxist sufficient for being a tankie? What about a Marxist-Leninist? Are only Dengists tankies? Is Anarchism the only non-tankie leftist position? I've even seen Anarchists be called tankies over on Lemmy.world, which is currently undergoing Red Scare-era anti-leftist witch hunts (like return2ozma's recent ban for "bad-faith spam").
I think this question needs a definition first. If you ask 10 different people what a "tankie" is, you'll get 11 different answers.
Yes
Stalin is cool.
A ridiculous question. "Tankie" isn't a term anyone self-identifies with, it's mostly a term used by liberals to hurl at anyone to the left of them or anyone who agrees with western foreign policy. The survey results will be as meaningless as the term "tankie" itself.
Yes.
Just go ask the 196 mods.
yes.
i'm tankie and gay and covered in feces (some of which is my own)
No
To clear definitions, at least for me"tankies" are a subset of communists, who praises/defends the actions of all/most communist states far more than similar actions from capitalist states. The difference between communists and tankies is a bias in favor of communist states when looking at things like human rights violations. Very few people will self identify as a tankie, since it's hard to see your own bias.
YES
I'm not just a tank, I'm the entire armored division
I think it's just mostly teen drama from Lemmy.world users. :)
No, I think?
I don't actually know what a "Tankie" is. I tend to try to steer away from labels; I consider them a form of intellectual laziness. People will use them to either try to gain a feeling of belonging by adopting a line of thinking shared by their peers, or they will use them to smear those who they have defined as "others" without consideration of why these "others" might hold opinions that they don't. Labels and label-based thinking lead to tribalism and division.
If you want to know what I think about something, ask with specifics. If you want to convince me of something, present an argument with reason and evidence, and be prepared for me to pick it apart and look for flaws. There is nothing I respect more than somebody who takes a comment I make and considers it, researches it and then comes back to me with a response, or presents me with a perspective that compels me to do the same. I find both depressingly rare.
YES
Seriously speaking, YES.
“The modern revisionists and reactionaries call us Tankies, thinking that they insult us and, in fact, that is their aim. On the contrary, however, they glorify us with this epithet: it is an honour for us to be Tankies, because, since we were Tankies, the enemy could not conquer us, and never will conquer us as long as we remain Tankies.”
--Enver Hoxha, paraphrased.
(As far as Hungary is concerned, I don't advocate for anything that Khrushchev did)
The .world libs just couldn't help themselves but ruin our circlejerk.
Sure fuck it. I'll Tankie. Castro is a hero. Western news knows nothing of glorious DPRK Juche, and comrade Stalin did nothing wrong.
Yes.
no i like watching tanks get blown up
NO. Not a fan of the current or former CCP or the former Soviet Union
YES
My understanding is that a tankie is defined as someone who seeks to promote global peace, understanding, and equality, with nuanced views that incorporate marginalized and international perspectives, grounded in historical evidence.
That's how I see it used anyway.
I wear tankies when it is hot out.
No.
Maybe I'm way off the mark here but... I think the reaction to tankies seems very overblown. No one you could describe as a "tankie" is currently in charge of any of the countries/companies/organizations that are busy destroying the world right now, so I don't super understand why everyone's talking about them like they're at all a priority? The authoritarians that tankies are obsessed with are all either long dead, or totally unaware of their existence.
Maybe some people on the left are just trying to look at future dangers here, like tankies are gonna be "Bolsheviks Part 2", somehow come into power, and then purge all the anarchists or something. But didn't Bolsheviks actually have a lot of power and influence prior to the revolution? Tankies don't seem to.
No.
This isn't my standard instance but I do take a look at it sometimes. I'm definitely very far left leaning, I don't have a label that clearly fits me but I'm probably close enough to anarcho-communism or syndicalism. I live in the UK so it's pretty common for my views to fall further left of the USA.
I'm not particularly good at actually adhering to my own views, infact I don't think I've ever done e anything substantial to bringing my ideals into reality. My dream would be for small federated housing / workers co-ops and unions to get a good handle in my area, and then have the stability to grow.
The crucial reason I'm not a tankie is that I actively oppose top down leadership structures, and I'm actually more against authoritarianism than I am against the right, but I feel that in my country, conservatism and authoritarianism are deeply linked, and a bottom up power structure would do more to actively oppose facism and power consolidation than a far left authoritarian regime.
In short, No. My principles may make me a commie, but I'm an anarchist first.
Yes.
I don't care to hide my aims; I don't move sheisty like some of y'all favorite Democrats do. Til all are fed and all have beds; my skin is Black, my star is Red.
I'm as tankie as they come.
NO
When the current government is not doing a very good job at maximizing the happiness of its citizens, it's a natural reaction to look for answers from a different type of government. America has some enormous problems with capitalism as it currently operates, and communism offers solutions to many of those problems. The issue is the top-down power structure. Democracy keeps the most power in the hands of the general population, and i will always oppose giving that up. Beyond that, I'm open to any solutions for modern problems, public or private.
I don't consider myself a tankie, because I'm an anarcho-syndicalist.
I've been called a tankie for suggesting that workers should organize tenant unions to kill the apartment bidding wars in NYC. I've been called a tankie for pointing out that their image of a tankie needs to almost have power to be any kind of threat worth warning against, and there are no tankies anywhere near power with the global rise of fascism. I've been called a tankie for asking someone to clarify what they meant by tankie. I've been told that scientific socialism both is and is not tankie behavior. The term is utterly meaningless. I've come to the conclusion that it's part of a 3rd red scare in an effort to sow division amongst the anticapitalist left.
i may or may not have a tanksona, but that doesn't make me a tankie.
YES
At least if we go off the Lemmy definition. I don't self identify.
Yes. I get called one everytime i defend or advocate for anything left of Bernie Sanders. "
"Communism is the riddle of history solved, and knows itself to be the solution."
Is as true today as it was when Marx wrote it almost 200 years ago.
No, don't know what it is either
This is a dumb question. That's like asking TERFs if they self-identify as bigots. They're going to respond that no, of course they aren't, they're just gender realists (or gender critical, or whatever).
If Tankie means somewhat supporting what the URSS/China did, then YES.
I'm not communist, I've never read the manifesto but I'm more aligned with their ideals and the materialism philosophy than anything else, and I saw this quote that marked me. I paraphrase: "... the worst communist implementation was still better/on par than the best capitalist country".
Yes
No. I had no idea about this instance's reputation when I joined Lemmy but it's nothing like the other instance you mentioned.
It gets very tiring trying to have a conversation with contrarians who think everything Western is bad and anything Chinese/USSR is good. Or worse, that their highly suspicious news sources (some random blog usually) are telling you the real truth, while using any mainstream news media source makes you a deluded Lib
no
A wot?
NO, I’m also not from this instance for similar reasons
Permanently Deleted
No
On economic policy I am quite far left - I support a low Gini coefficient, achieved through a mixed economy, but with state provided options (with no 'think of the businesses' pricing strategy) for the essentials and state owned options for natural monopolies / utilities / media.
But on social policy, I support social liberties and democracy. I believe the government should intervene, with force if needed, to protect the rights of others from interference by others (including rights to bodily safety and autonomy, not to be discriminated against, the right to a clean and healthy environment, and the right not to be exploited or misled by profiteers) and to redistribute wealth from those with a surplus to those in need / to fund the legitimate functions of the state. Outside of that, people should have social and political liberties.
I consider being a 'tankie' to require both the leftist aspect (✅) and the authoritarian aspect (❌), so I don't meet the definition.
No
Oppression is oppression independent of the ideological basis, people who support oppressive governments based on a loose ideological basis deserve the worse.
No
YES
If wanting to receive basic human rights (food, housing, etc.), attend education without being discriminated against for my income and mental condition, control my workplace, earn the full value of my wages, have a government actually controlled by the people, all while being politically educated in past socialist movements and their theory to achieve all these things, then I'm sure as hell am a tankie, and I don't care what online liberals say.
Stalin rules, by the way. ✊
No. Not a tankie. It would be nice if autocorrect let me type tankie and not talkie. I had to cut and paste it I'm not proud.
No, then yes, then no again.
Long story, won't explain, I don't remember many details since it's been years since I cared about any of this stuff; other than "Gonzalo did nothing wrong, there is no AES, CCP and Russia lost their way due to Deng in China and the assassination of Lenin in Russia blah blah I'm an ultra or maoist or something blah blah".
Open source movement is the only thing I care about now.
Not that I know of.
No
Permanently Deleted
No.
I assume "tankie" is a roundabout way to lump revolutionary leftists with those fomenting red-brown alliances. That is, a "tankie" in the modern day is a way to describe someone as Strasserist, NazBol, LaRouchite, etc.
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My understanding is that tankies believe that groups that have partially or completely followed far-left principles should be exempt from all criticism. I disagree. As long as it is honest criticism, it should not only be allowed but encouraged.
I've also heard that tankies are historic revisionists to an extreme. While I agree Western history is not telling us the real version of things, I don't think other countries are either. I won't say that an event happened one way or the other just because country A or country B says so. If historians and other experts are still debating an event and its details, I prefer to watch from a distance as I have no way to contribute to those debates.
So... no.
No.
Granted, I'm not on lemmy.ml either.
Maybe just yes or no isn't enough either. Maybe have someone post a picture of tanks in tienniemen square to prove they aren't a tanker.
No I'm not. Unfortunately one of the problems with tankies is they don't call themselves that most of the time. But I can confidently claim I'm not because when a fellow leftist disagrees with me on 5% of something, I gently explain why I believe what I do, and then proceed to not be mad if the petty difference continues.
NO. We have had enough already
