In what ways are people today being convinced to spend money beyond their means?
In what ways are people today being convinced to spend money beyond their means?
In what ways are people today being convinced to spend money beyond their means?
Inflation of good with no matching inflation of pay.
Phone upgrades even though there’s barely any change from the last model.
Smartphone sales are at their lowest since 2013. Everyone has figured this out now.
I think that's the hidden cause of increasing phone pricing. I'm still using my note 9. The battery is starting to give so maybe this time next year I finally upgrade.
Cars are a huge one. I know Lemmy is very radically against cars, but they are basically necessary for many (most?) Americans.
What is not necessary is the average price of a new car nearly doubling in 10 years. A $50k car should be a big luxury, not the fucking national average.
In order to afford a car that pricey, most people will have to severely compromise their savings, and/or get a loan that will last as long or longer than the car.
Cars have also become extremely reliable (in the EU at least) over the last ten years. Car companies have slowly convinced millions of people that leasing is the way to go, and nobody realised they were being sold a car on subscription lol
Then they have to give back a perfectly fine car with at least a decade of life left in it, and get hooked into another subscription
Fucking mugs tbh
See, that's interesting because in America they seem to have gotten worse over the last decade or so. Domestic manufacturers have started designing things in an explicitly maintenance-hostile manner, even if they aren't exactly less reliable.
I'm super interested if European cars are finally pulling it together. They've been an upkeep trap here for years due to the cost of maintenance and likelihood of problems.
I have been thinking of getting a new car, but didn't want to use the dealers finance system, so I went to the bank. Turns out, banks will only give auto loans if you're buying a car that's only 3 years old.
yeah right, since I can barely afford a new car, lemme just buy a BRAND fuckin NEW one. Nah, gimme that 2012 for 30k less thank you.
Some banks will probably loan you money for a used car, but you won't be able to use an old car as collateral (as easily). And it may be more expensive.
Hmm, rapid price increases are consistent with inelastic demand, whereby sales remain high even in the face of rising prices. Why wouldn't car manufacturers raise prices, if it doesn't affect sales numbers? It'd be breach of fiduciary duty to the shareholders to do otherwise!
What could cause inelastic demand for cars? Making them basically necessary for most Americans, perhaps.
Cars have also ballooned in size since the 90s. In the 90s, sedans were the most common type of car. Now, it’s SUVs and light trucks, which use tons more materials.
OP using word 'convinced' is relevant here because whilst most people in USA 'need' a car (because there is no practical alternative to driving), they are being convinced every day that a private car is the only viable solution to transport in general...
... and then of course you get everyone freaking out when someone has the audacity to suggest that installing a dedicated bike / bus lane would mean less people need a car, and that would save everyone time and money.
Also while I'm ranting, I'm so over people harping on about how they can't rely on public transit and that's why they need a car. Like reliable and affordable public transport is some magical and unobtainable goal.
But then when gas prices inevitably get crazy high, or they get in a wreck, or traffic is a mess then that's just The Way It Is and in no way an indication that maybe everyone driving a personal car for every single trip isn't the most reliable or sustainable way to run a city.
That last paragraph is the big thing I face most often. We got Amtrak service in my city and I hype that shit. I've talked to a bunch of people who are firmly anti-Amtrak because they caught one delay, but they'll sit in daily interstate gridlock to go to work without batting a fuckin eye.
A thread on rising credit card debt in the US, combined with news of sustained spending levels and a rosy outlook on the economy at the surface got me thinking about this.
Recent trends that I thought of:
I'm hoping for more recent trends and things I might not have considered like social media, but I also welcome personal experiences, expanding on any of the above and historical examples.
The subscriptions are out of control now. Sometimes we have to throw a tablet or phone at the kids, and of course they want the play the parts of the game they can’t click on because it’s locked. I have no problem shelling out something reasonable like $2-7 to just unlock all the crap and be done with it, but now most of these developers are asking for $10 a MONTH just to have access to all of the game assets. And they’re not live service games, have online, or even in-game currency; they just single player offline basic games like driving Thomas the tank engine around a map. Like, get fucked dudes.
Mobile games are so twisted and it's plain to see.
You reminded me of this video, 20 minutes of the basis of how to psychologically manipulate people into spending money for your game. 3:45 is the "Hook, Habit Hobby" part which is worth a watch too. It's from 7 years ago and elements of it may be beginning to crawl everywhere.
There are ads that portray people in humiliating situations, like not being able to afford their groceries while holding up the line at the checkout, so they download an app that gives them "free cash." This is portrayed as a perfectly normal, reasonable thing to do in this situation.
NGL I've bought a lot of people their groceries over the years
I've been that person and the child of that person who couldn't afford groceries, so I do what I can to help others
Wow, that's dehumanizing...
I've been behind people who used price match for every item in their cart. I try to smile politely and not look annoyed, people do what they need to to get by.
Those “Pay over X months” schemes for smaller purchases than before.
Some people don't realize each one of those is a new line of credit...
You can fuck your credit up for a very long time messing around with those on stupid shit.
The scarier thing is that they are designed to be less than six months to avoid federal loan regulations and are reported to credit agencies as some new kind of installment loan (I forget the exact term/acronym). Many lenders are refusing to lend to anyone who has even taken one out in the past 2-3 years since they are seen as such a high risk indicator.
Buy now pay later schemes like Klarna.
You can spread the cost of a takeaway over 6 weeks. Wtf? If you can't afford a takeaway make a fucking sandwich.
During the pandemic an old friend of mine and myself reconnected abd played video games together. He told me a couple of times that money is kinda tight and whatever. He worked way different shifts than me so i invited him to eat at my place 4 times a week or so. I love cooking and cooking double doesn't really makes much of a difference. After a few weeks i was at his place for the first time ever and he had two full ass garbage bags full of delivery and fast food on his porch. Motherfucker that's where your money goes. I can coock for the both of us a good healthy meal for a week for what he spends alone in two days. He basically said: well, i can't cook, so there is nothing he can do, really. Wegot out of touch again, aside from talking on discord every bow and then, but i seen him recently and he's almost doubled in size now, so i assume nothing has changed.
I don’t get people who say they “can’t cook”. Anyone can cook basic recipes…. No, the real issue is that they lack the willpower to cook. I say this as someone who dislikes cooking. I can do it if I need to (or rarely, if I feel inspired), and hell, I can do it well! But I detest the idea of spending like an hour cooking every day when I could just buy premade things like frozen meals or whatever and save myself the time. If my wife didn’t like cooking, that’s what I’d be doing for dinner each night (I already do it for lunch basically).
That's sad. I don't mind cooking, but after a typical work day, I often don't have enough mental energy leftover to cook for myself either though. If I didn't have a wife who loved me, I'd probably end up a lot like your friend. We try to save eating out for special occasions or when we're both pooped and there's no leftovers at least. But I can totally understand how that can happen to a person.
Subscriptions everywhere. Video, credit, energy bills (subscription for repairs/maintenance), music, news sites, YouTubers, CARS, etc. I can't fucking escape this hell!
Energy bills aren't really subscriptions like the others though. You pay for the energy you use.
Whereas with the others, you're paying the same price every month regardless of how much you use.
I have seen plans where you pay a fixed price/kWh; almost seemed like a decent deal, until I read the fine print - the regular fees & transportation/kWh is on top of the fixed cost.
Yours doesn't come with a delivery fee that you'd have to pay every month regardless of any usage?
The maintenance plan is in addition to the gas usage
Other than energy bills, you'll just have to dodge the rest of the subscriptions as best you can.
I am doing my okayest.
Buying giant SUVs no one needs with huge loans. Paying through the nose for corporate chain coffee.
I work with a guy who recently bought a 100k truck
We make a bit over 50k, this dude's interest rate is 12% and he got an 8 year loan
He's never going to pull himself out of that rut
And he'll never use it as intended, will he? Most that thing will ever haul is a cooler full of Keystone or a few random pieces of wood.
The cost of a gallon of gas? $3.25
The cost for yearly maintenance? $2,750
The cost of interest paid each month? $585
The joy of bringing a smile to children under the age of 10 pointing and saying “that’s a cool truck!”? $100k
Holy geez, I knew that medical costs were out of control, but that's a stupid amount of money to treat fragile masculinity!
8 years! That's insane to me.
The most sinister is an almost inescapable one, where companies intentionally build things (larger appliances are a huge offender) to fail within 3 to 5 years.
It's the "a poor man can't afford cheap shoes" thing.
They love to "sell" this concept that making items cheaper means consumers can more frequently replace as their styles change. Fuck you, give me a white fridge that never breaks, I don't care if I have to pay double up front.
I realized this was a significant part of my expenses about a decade ago now, and started researching and budgeting for higher-quality products that don't get as much advertisement as their cheaper counterparts. It's been great! What started as a larger expense on the front end has already broken about even on potential replacements that I didn't end up needing, plus I get high-quality items to use the whole way through as well!
It's definitely a good thing to pay attention to just how much you spend on replacing things that broke down unexpectedly quickly. The higher-quality items often exist, but a lot of times you need to seek out the niche communities that focus on those products to help find them and parse through the available options. I'm sure a lot of people just aren't able to front the charge to make the change, though.
Got any tips on researching these things? I'm always concerned that "buy-it-for-life" testimonials are only so trustworthy when the item was made years ago already, and the manufacturing process could have changed since.
Buying expensive things and imagining that they last longer just because of their price tag is also a good way to lose money faster.
It doesn't even have to be intentional. So much shit is plastic now so everything breaks faster.
Producing superfluous items uses energy which also has to be paid for. A cost we all pay.
They are paying 2/3rds of their income from a 80 hour warehouse job for a 1 futon closet in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, and then being told they are living too frivolously by assholes.
Trucks (In the USA)
I'm in this FB group that does financial advice with a little sarcasm and jokes mixed in. Suggest that someone should downsize to a car or get rid of their gas guzzling truck they have no real utility for and it's like you've insulted their religion. Never seen such a group of grown adults throwing temper tantrums like that in my life.
thats just an average facebook group, for anything
Exactly
Dishwasher pods are convenient and cost 5x as much as the powder.
Laundry detergent pods are another one
And fabric softener ruins your clothes over time
Get that hypoallergenic laundry soap with no additives, it's usually better for your clothes as they keep the extras to a minimum
I was talking about groceries with a friend over in England a few nights ago. Apparently my pasta prices are 4x hers. And that's just the store brand dry noodles. If I found the cheapest deal I used to see from various places, it'd still be 2x. I'd need a pound of noodles for $0.49 to even be in the ballpark.
If a simple item like that is casually 4x more expensive, I'm sure everything else is also up there. I've been lucky that my income allows me to be a single family income provider and have money left over to throw around wherever I want, but just finding this out the other day really left a deep impression of just how sorry of a state things are in over here.
Yeah it's always surprising when I hear Americans say that eating healthy is more expensive that eating fast food / eating unhealthy.
When I was veggie and just eating vegetables I could buy a week's worth of food for about £10 a Kilogram of carrots was about 50p potatoes were 60p/kg brocoli and salad item were a little bit under £1/kg
Then as you said basic things like pasta is pretty cheap, I used to get 1kg of pasta for 30p and then a jar of tomato pasta sauce for 60p and that could last me 3 meals.
"10 pounds a kilogram" is a funny phrase out of context
Some folks don't have access to fresh groceries like that. Food deserts are a major issue in the states.
Additionally, going out to eat has many hidden costs, like liquor tax in some cities on an already overpriced drink. Soda or Iced tea is $2.50 or more. Now add tax and tip and your $7 cheeseburger & coke is $25.
It's not for everyone, but my family has been enrolling in CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) produce. It's cheaper and local. Granted, I'll get 3 eggplants in a box one week and I need to get creative to be able to use it, but that's part of the fun. I've expanded my produce repertoire 5-fold and now know how to cook fennel.
Just a persistent culture of materialism. That things will bring you happiness in some deeply rooted way that can't be matched. Add in an unhealthy dose of capitalistic mentality and there's also the push that if something costs more, it must be better.
So you get trapped in a cycle of buying things that have no real purpose, or can be better served by something cheaper, and feeling unfulfilled. So you look for something new to fill that emptiness that persists throughout the cycle.
Can you give me an example?
For me, if I am buying a tool (e.g. pliers) I will always look for an item that will last longer and be of better quality. But I will probably not go for the most expensive ones.
In contrast, I don't give a fuck about many car features. So, I would always prefer to buy a small city car.
Iphones being some sort of standard
Peer pressure on behalf for corporations is such a silly thing in my opinion...
My preferences only extend to what I want, I don't really care what others use unless they are looking for suggestions/advice.
"here's a new credit offer, just spend X in 90 days and get free money!"
Yeah that one bit me
I really wish there was a government program where you can simply opt out of categories of junk mail. I don’t need a mailbox full of catalogues trying to get me to buy stuff, credit offers, or “charities”.
There is for some junk mail if you’re in the US: https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-stop-junk-mail
Oh yeah. That's a great example. Just reading that sentence makes my eyes focus on the 'get free money' and less on the 'spend X'.
The good news is having those credit cards actually helped in in the long run as I had a means of paying for the 3 dental surgeries I needed in a 6 month span
Of course I'm still paying that all off but my interest rate is crazy low due to moving the money close to the end of every "0% rate" period
I just see a big red flag. But those need some practice and upkeep since advertisers keep coming up with new schemes.
not seeing your money is a factor.
if people can always see how fat or malnourished their wallet at the time of purchase, I am sure they'll double think.
but no, we solved that overthinking by means of credit cards.
or better yet, touchless payments. Just wave your magic cellphone and stuff is yours!
I've seen an apparently relatable video about spending cash on something, therefore your bank account doesn't change so it feels free.
It seems that looking at your bank account balance often and valuing that number has a similar effect to carrying most of your paycheck in cash.
Credit cards are still the enemy because they delay the change in your bank account so that things feel like they cost less.
malnourished wallet
I agree with you and I had laughter over that wording. If it was a band name, I'm curious what would they play?
lol, that's an interesting question.
not exactly my forte but I'll try my best:
Depends on the name. Malnourished Wallet is probably an emo/grunge band. Ill Bills is thrash-punk. Skinny Pockets is an indie, alt-rock duo.
This is another good one! Those budgeting TV shows I remember I used to watch had the guest put away all credit cards and used cash in jars for each expense item.
Remembering my credit card number, CVV and expiry date by heart will be my downfall...
Yeah you right about that. That's why one of the simplest and most suggested budgeting techniques is to carry a cash envelope. Seeing/feeling your money makes it harder to psychologically part with it.
This ranks low in the scam scale, and it’s been around for decades, which leads me to believe it works well enough to keep around. At (some) supermarkets whenever an item is on sale the bright attention grabbing tag will say something like 3/$6 or 10/$10 leading you to believe you have to buy 3 or 10 or whatever at the same time to get the deal, when really the sale price is just $2 or $1 for the items in these examples, and you can buy however little you want.
Maybe adults don’t fall for it, but it sure worked on me when I was a dumb kid spending my few dollars I had on candy or whatever.
This varies. There are some stores where it really is 10 for $10 and individual items will ring up at $1.19 or whatever. It can pay to ask.
Notable exceptions include sale prices by Target and Circle K/Holiday, which typically do require you to buy the posted quantity to get the deal
Learned that one the hard way at Target one day
Edit: In the US
Guidelines in Ontario for retail were that "unless you list the price for 1, you must honour the unit price for combo deal"...
Grocery stores in Canada are much more commonly now "3/$7 or $2.99 each for less than 3."
They're being sold to in terms of dollars per month, which makes a very oversized purchase sound reasonable if no one spells out the end results. We tend to value having the thing now more than being totally broke later.
Also, peoples means keep staying the same or shrinking while everyday purchases get more expensive.
where i live renting a small room is more expensive than all minimum starting salaries i have seen, and you also need to pay two months rent upfront, and the security deposit is equal to 12 months of rent and because of high inflation that means you are literally paying an extra months worth of rent just on the deposit alone (which goes up by inflation).
so people telling me how much life is worth living? cause that's certainly beyond my means.
security deposit is equal to 12 months of rent
Jeez. Why the hell are landlords asking for a downpayment on a home they are leasing?
Silly, that's a down payment for the next house to turn into a rental.
Because some tenants will just stop paying and refuse to leave. Some will trash the place and sell everything they can pry off and either disappear or just move on. Trying to go after them is a long legal battle and the end result can be that they have no money and you'll get nothing.
Security deposits are security deposits. 12 months sounds crazy though. That really is enough for a downpayment in many places.
cause they can, and it's a good source for an interest free loan. i mean who would pass on the opportunity to get an interest free loan where you can arbitrarily deduct the amount you owe?
Simply needing shelter
Yeah, especially where I live, I have no idea how anyone is supposed to find dignified housing that isn't in a well paying job, a DINK couple in a cramped apartment or a trust fund baby. Average asking rents are averaging close to $3k CAD ($2225 USD)!
It's all falling apart. No future. No safety. No hope. Buy until you die.
"Choose a life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers... " Irvine Welsh, Trainspotting
BNPL ("buy now, pay later") is definitely amongst the worst problems
Buy Now Pay Later is what's exacerbating this. People are dumb, have short attention spans and most of them are statistically bad at basic math, so when they see a purchase that they can make without paying anything now they'll hit buy and they'll do it many times as the e-commerce platform will usually recommend other products to them they'll likely want, they won't do the calculation to see if they really can afford the split payments + the interest.
One big thing is people will often buy for a niche that they don't need (like buying a big truck because they go to home depot once a month to get 2x4 and the other (in tech mostly) is "its for future proofing bro"
What if we future proof with full intent to use until it's chugging?
Because I will be very unhappy if my pc needs new parts by 2045
The problem with future proofing is that you can never predict what new feature will end up becoming the next big thing or the next bottleneck. Sure, if everything works out exactly as predicted, if what the companies said was going to be the next big thing, really did end up being the next big thing, then you'd be future proof for up to 10 years. But then what if it turns out that the next big thing wasn't what anyone predicted it was going to be? Think about the whole VRAM issue that came up last year. Almost overnight, supposedly high end GPU's got instantly re-evaluated to be not worth the money. DLSS, too - the newest version only supports the newest generation. And mesh shaders - even some GPU's from a couple years back don't support it. Out of all the things that people predicted was going to be the next big feature, how many actually ended up being the next big feature? You end up just as worse off as if you had just went for a lower-tier option.
I'm not advocating for replacing your GPU frequently. Far from it. But the argument of splurging on an excessively overkill tech part for futureproofing is just marketing mumbo jumbo
Just wait until 2031 when they end support for Windows 11 and require you to have an 18th Gen CPU to run Windows 12.
Let me put it this way, you could buy a 4090 now for 2k, then get prolly like 7-10 years out of it, or you could get something more midranged for like 300-400, and if you upgrade every other gen for the same price that means you spent at most 1200 which is more than 50% less than if you'd gone for the 4090 to be "future proof"
Monthly payments. Not just entertainment subscription devices but all kinds of stuff. Almost every product online now has a monthly cost option, a buy now pay later scheme. Another one I see a lot at the grocery store is organic/non GMO foods. They are always way more expensive but are usually the same food, and if they aren't organic will contain more pesticides without the "natural" immunity/resistance of GMOs. They aren't healthier, they don't taste any better, are worse for the environment and are much more expensive.
Second is expensive and humane meat. Most metrics these meats/eggs are graded by are so loose that they are still extremely inhumane. Unless they are from a local farm, that you can confirm are humane/free roam, just buy the cheapest meat and best marbling.
Computers. I'm a tech guy and the vast majority of people are still buying computers far more powerful than they need. Unless it's cad, programming or gaming you can use almost any computer. If you want it to be really fast install, or ask your local shit to install an SSD. Plus most reputable refurbishers will install SSDs on all laptops for sale. I recommend PC server and parts, good quality refurbishment and customer support. There may be a few dings/scratches but never severe or noticeable.
Premade/processed food. Either it's frozen meals or fast food these get expensive fast. Depending on where you live quality home cooked meals can be had for 1-3$ (based on the US). Ditch even storebought pasta sauce, it's not hard to make at home.
Wifi. Most ISPs will try to upsell you on everything but for most people an families the most you would ever need is 150-300 MBps. Also the max speed can only be reached with a hardwired Ethernet connection, WiFi speed is barely affected. If you have slow wifi use an old phone or laptop as a wifi amplifier, storebought solutions are criminally expensive.
That's enough for now but if you have more questions feel free to ask.
Seen some people harp about not forgetting frozen vegetables can be cheaper than fresh depending on the season and close in nutrition and cooking results. That’s one thing about getting good deals, in groceries and in other things is you’re going to have to swap ease of buying for better deals at times and need to keep yourself aware of when that trade off stops being beneficial. My grandfather used to go to three or four stores depending on what the sales were. That sometimes meant riproaring savings from cherry-picked loss leaders, but I think most of the time it was something to do during the day with his grandson
In your experience, would you say premade/processed food has gone up in price faster than staples or at roughly the same rate?
In Canada, milk is one of the few things that have stayed the same-ish level due to supply-management setting the price. Everything else went up in price and I'm having a hard time keeping track.
How do people handle having to pay off things over 6 months to 2 years? (Or is the answer they don't?) I don't enjoy having that over my head for that long, I'd rather just take the hit, which is why BNPL hasn't worked on me...
rent and housing run by the bank
They remind me that it's cold outside and that I have to work every day to live in a hundred year old house that was probably built in a few months.
Be selling them the idea the end of the world is nigh. Who cares about the 30 year mortgage if everything’s going to be gone in 10 years?
That sort of thing. By selling the idea that our existence is short, they encourage near-term thinking.
Why is everyone so excited about NHL trophies this year?
That's one thing that I've only heard about second-hand.
Mountains of people bad at math convincing bigger mountains of people even worse at math that they can't afford anything of major value.
So in turn they go and spend what money they do have because why bother saving it if you'll "never afford a x"
In reality most of the "you can't afford this and that" shit is built on top of bad math and content creators that don't understand how shit works.
And literally anyone with basic math skills can just go look for themselves and discover how bogus the claims are, or how much they misrepresent the state of things.
But nope, it's easier to give up and just buy forty Stanley Cups instead!
"CREDIT"
Groceries. Rent. Utilities.
I saw commercials last december encouraging people to take out a special low interest loan specifically for holiday shopping. LOADS of shopping platforms offer a “buy now, pay later” option.
Yowch that's like a free ticket to January misery...
Shop like a billionaire
Look buddy, I got a great deal on that mega yacht, so don't go criticizing my spending habits... Did not realize I'd need to hire a staff and pay docking fees, though...
Please send money I am in a bananas amount of yacht debt.