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ExtremeDullard @lemmy.sdf.org

Bambu Lab Firmware Update Forces Cloud Dependency & User Lock-In - AVOID THEIR 3D PRINTERS!

139 comments

  • Prusa for the win yet again. I recently upgraded to MK4, and the thing just keeps. On. Going. Great customer support. They work with 3rd party suppiers instead of against them. Worth every cent.

    • Yep, and the fact you can upgrade to new versions is amazing, only paying for the new parts, not a whole new printer.

    • I had a side gig as the printer mechanic for a small company that 3D printed bracketry for their product. They used both genuine and "knockoff" (open source ftw) Prusa Mk3s. I'd kinda like to staple Josef Prusa's foreskin to the ceiling. I think it would make him have better ideas than the extruder-and-hot-end-assembly that those machines currently have. Deal breaking issues I've had with them in service:

      • Nothing is connectorized at the business end. If you need to replace either of the two fans, the extruder motor, the PINDA probe, the temperature sensor, the heater cartridge, you have to partially disassemble the extruder mechanism and unwrap the wiring harness. The filament runout sensor is connectorized at the tiny little board, but...
      • The wiring harness passes through a hole in the back of the carriage plate and most of the wires have to fit into one of two little slots as the extruder mechanism is attached to the carriage. It's really easy to pinch or sever wires like this, and it means you can't replace a broken fan or something without partial disassembly.
      • The PINDA probe mount is about 3 planck lengths thick. It's subject to some load from the thickness of the PINDA probe's cable, it's rather near the hot end and the heat plate, so I've seen them warp or break under continuous use. And it's built into a foundational part of the mechanism so it's not a quick swap, it's a 100% teardown and rebuild from scratch.
      • The whole thing is a demented sandwich with like 25 printed plastic parts. It's a convoluted thing to work on, even if it's not printed in gloss black so you can make out the shape of everything. But they print it in gloss black.
      • It's not designed to be built up as an assembly that can be easily and quickly attached and detached from the printer. In service, this makes it impossible to have a spare extruder assembly built up so when you get "Number 3 needs a new nozzle" you can swap in the spare assembly, return the machine to service, and then work on the part at your leisure. No, the production manager is breathing down your neck with a machine in many pieces. Hand me my stapler, I just want to talk to him.
      • Those goddamn pressed in square nuts. If you want to re-use the hardware because one of the many plastic pieces partially broke in a way that means you HAVE to replace it, re-using the hardware is just one more jumper cable to the cornea.

      It's not specific to the Extruder mechanism, but because nothing is connectorized at the business end, you end up having to open the main board's enclosure and dealing with shit in there, and there isn't room. It's turned the wrong way; the connectors and shit should be on the OUTSIDE of the printer so you could get to them easier and most of the cover should hinge or bolt off.

      For an 8-bit AVR-based Mendel pattern machine they work surprisingly well when they're in good shape but they are a PAIN IN THE TAINT to keep running in a production environment. I have the skills to do better than this but I'm not doing it for free.

  • Saw this from the moment they did the rfid nonsense, doubled down on my beliefs when they started burning cash on advertising like crazy. Tons of youtubers and such shill this shit

    They had a series b round in 2023 of an undisclosed amount with several chinese vc companies and they’ve had investments in 2021 and 2022 as well. I don’t know how chinese vc works but I assume it’s similar to american vc where there is a strong demand from the backer(s) to monetize in this fashion

    Why do you think reddit went to shit? Series b in 2014. Those people drop serious cash. Reddits seed round in 2005 at y combinator was for 100k. That’s serious money to you and me, but to vc people that’s not worth getting out of bed. Reddits 2014 series b was fifty million. They suddenly had a gigantic influx of cash to grow infrastructure and compete with the big dogs like meta and twitter. They were fairly successful with this. They then raised 1.2 billion over 4 rounds from 2017-2021. That’s why they had a relatively quick turn to shit; that money was to try to make the site bland and profitable in preparation for ipo. It worked out because the stock made investors a ton of cash at the expense of making the site dogshit

    Bambu will have a similar trajectory. Investors will give them an amount of money that is frankly obscene, they will use that money to develop (and probably to party, ridiculous salaries and/or fluff jobs, and have really fancy offices), then they will actively make the product worse. 5 years from now they will have used that money to entrench themselves in the market space. Don’t be surprised if the average person thinks “bambu” when they think “3d printer” because they pissed away 10s of millions on advertising. But their printers will have more consumer hostile bullshit (finally fully locking out 3rd part filament instead of just requiring you to do a pain in the ass respooling seems inevitable) like this and it would not be surprising to see the build quality suffer too.

  • For everyone in the EU who bought their product within the last two years directly from Bambu Land or from a German reseller:

    Stay calm. There is a very highly probability that German customer protection laws will cover your asses - Bambu Lab EU is based in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, and German customer protection laws goes beyond EU rules and applies to you.

    I am currently working with three other enthusiasts, one being a lawyer -working in a different field, though- to clarify our options and will also talk to a customer protection agency.

    Short explanation:

    • German customer protection laws enable the customer of any online shop to "check" the sold product for 14d in a way they would check the product at a real world shop. The feature set and sales claims provided at this time do provide the base for finalization of the sale.
    • The seller (!= Manufacturer!) has to provide a warranty for two years - for 6 months the burden of prove that the fault was not present at the delivery falls towards the seller, for the remaining time to the buyer. As BL does communicate the chanhe openly this is not an issue.
    • BL furthermore claims that some uses fall outside the "intended use". This is completely irrelevant - that is only relevant if they claim that they cannot provide warranty due to use outside the intended use. They still cannot reduce the feature set.
    • Which holds more merit is the claim of BL that they are reducing a side feature/unintended feature. This explanation has, in the past, been used a few times in court successfully,but lately it has not been accepted anymore - even App connections for cars have been deemed a "base feature" that might play a significant role in choosing a car. It especially has not merit in cases when this defence is used to force a user to give up their (sensitive) data.
    • BL also has a five year update policy in their TOS (which is mostly invalid otherwise,though) - and blocking users from updating if they don't want to loose features and give up data is also very likely a breach of contract.
    • There are also GDPR and market law implications that need to be considered.

    What does that all mean? What can happen in the end?

    It is highly unlikely that this proceedings can change the course of BL - these companies don't give a fuck. But it might force them to basically reverse the sale (you would need to pay them for the actual use, though - but that is miniscule). Of course BL can also close their office in the EU and try to only sell from outside the EU - but that will put a very large crosshair on their back in terms of customs and taxes.

    I keep you updated.

    Update 21/01/25 Spoke with a customer protection associations lawyer for a short time, the longer answer will follow later. Few key facts:

    • The fact that you once could use external tools and control while using cloud connection as well and soon cannot do this anymore is a relevant feature change, that it might affect the base of the sale. Developer mode is not a full replacement for that.
    • There are some other issues with Bambu Lab policies, especially their return policies, that will be looked into as they directly contradict German law.
139 comments