1mo ago

Well, I guess that settles it

178 comments

How tf can killing a single person with a handgun be classified as terrorism?
- Because the ruling class is terrified
- Because they don't like him.
  I mean Dylan fucking Roof shot dead 9 black people and they didn't consider it terrorism.
  
  Dylan Roof did get charged with hate crimes and was convicted on all 33 counts, leading to a death sentence. Stacking terrorism charges on top of that would have been pointless.
  Mangione, by contrast, is getting charged in a state without capital punishment. You need the terror charge to make this a First Degree Murder case. Otherwise he's looking at parole after 15 years.
- "They're making us CEO's afraid, terrified even, so he's clearly a terrorist. The implication that the working class could actually fight back against the systemic oppression we inflict on them? That's horrifying. We can't allow them to believe they could ever fight back. Make an example of this person."
  The rich assholes or something
- Crimes against the ruling class are more harshly punished than crimes against the plebs.
- Because it's making the CEOs and politicians Terrified.
  
  Our most sacred 21st century nobility. Guess we’ll have to cut their taxes to show our deference
  
  They used to be terrified a lot more often when history was closer to JFK, Mussolini, Lincoln, and the French Revolution. When the leaders really thought the punishment for bad leadership was their ass, they gave a shit more.
- As long as the action terrorised a large enough group of people it's terrorism, it's just this time, the terrorised people are the rich cunts hiding in their mansions like the traitorous cowards they are.

So this is terrorism but they refuse to give terrorism charges to local militias?
- They also don't charge people who blow up abortion clinics with terrorism either. They haven't since the 60s - 70s.
  If you look it up the courts have been petitioned several times to associate abortion clinic bombings with Christian terrorism but they keep refusing to call it what it is.
  After reading about that fiasco I have very little faith our government actually has a working definition of terrorism that doesn't shift at their convenience.
  
  Hardly shocking that the christofascist courts of America refuse to classify abortion clinic bombings as domestic terrorism.
- Local militias are perfectly acceptable as per the second amendment, as long as they're "well regulated", whatever that means...
  
  it means that it needs to be an actual maintained organization, not Jim bob and his buddies threatening anybody they don't like. it's also not a requirement, it's only the reasoning provided.
- Hence the joke
- Whatever helps the ruling class protect their money

The dead guy was the terrorist.
- But he was white...?
  
  fine "Domestic" terrorist
  
  So he was a "lone wolf" then
  
  So was Timothy McVeigh.

Was he actually Italian though? As in, speaking Italian, having an Italian passport etc.? Y'all Americans have weird definitions of nationality, just having a foreign sounding last name isn't really enough...
- When someone from America says they Italian or whatever they aren't talking about nationality, it's about ancestry, where your family came from not what county you were born in
  
  No no no no........it's about what kind of food your mom cooked when you were a kid.
  Which makes me.......uhhhhhh........clown? I don't know. She bought a lot of McDonalds.
- Dude's name is Luigi and his last name sounds like a pizza restaurant. That settles it for me, thank you very much.
  
  You joke, but that kind of prejudice is pretty hurtful in day to day life
- According to Italian law if you have Italian ancestry, you're Italian. There's a whole process (with many asterisks and exceptions) in which you can apply to get your Italian passport
  
  My great grandfather was an Italian immigrant. My father is looking into getting an Italian passport. Maybe being a soon-to-be physician will improve my chances of getting one too. (Maybe I'll switch from learning French to learning Italian too)
- White Africans and Black Germans must have a great old time over there
  
  White Africans
  Charlize Theron is doing fantastic!
- The word you are looking for is enthnicity. Enthnicity describes the (self-)perceived belonging to a population group. This is of course highly subjective.
  There is undeniably perception of grouping in the US based on heritage, where it doesn't really matter when your ancestors arrived, just from where. So from an American POV it makes sense to call him Italian, because he is in the same perceived group as all the people from Italy.
  On the other hand from a European POV it doesn't really matter, where your great grandparents come from. You are part of the US-Group, so you are American.
  This is not an exclusive US Problem, but a general migration problem & it happens everywhere. Comments like yours are the reason, why people from migrated families feel like they are in-between cultures. Instead of writing snarky comments on the internet, just accept that your perception of ethnicity is part of your ethnicity and other people can have other perceptions.
  
  Ever heard a white American try to have the tired-ass what's your ancestry conversation with a black American descended from slaves? It's pretty awkward. I hate these conversations and they need to stop.
  I get it all the time because I'm 7/8 "white" and my last name is pretty distinctively German, even though it's been anglicized.
- More of a
  visits Italy for the first time over summer
  continues to tell every living soul that their father's father's neighbour's goldfish, was italian
  ... scenario

- "I learned it from watching you, ok?!?!?"

Let’s hope the jury disagrees
- They charged him with terrorism so a regular jury won't get to make that decision. It will be a federal grand jury of selected stooges, and maybe even a secret court.
  
  A federal grand jury isn't a replacement for a regular federal trial jury. They're completely different things. A grand jury decides if there is a strong enough case to take the charges to trial, or if they should just be dismissed. When a grand jury isn't used, the trial judge makes that determination themselves. I agree that the terrorism charge will affect how the trial is conducted, but I don't know enough on that topic to comment further.
  
  Oh. So that was their play.

Uhuh... And the school shooters? No terrorist charges?...
- I'm pretty sure it's up to the state attorney to decide what charges to bring is all I'll say.
- Those tend to be a personal grudge, not a political statement.
  
  Pretty sure you could agree he had a personal grudge as well
  
  "Unlimited scope of people" does not require political statement.
- Have you done actual research or are you assuming because it feels right, it must be?
  
  Research on what?

the definition of terrorism from the FBI is very... vague

Here's an exerpt from the declaration of Independence :3
- Lemmy is filled with domestic terrorists!
  Me included!
  Don't let the jandarma take me
  
  Probably some international ones too.
  
  jandarma
  Is that a real english word?
- I didn't know Miku was a textbook definition of a terrorist /s
- The problem with the latter is that it only applies to the government, not private corporations.

”We are all domestic terrorists…”
-CPAC (Republicans) 2022

CEO's: Second degree murder is the highest you can charge him with for killing a CEO in NY? But we want to torture him and make an example of him so the proles don't get uppity!
DA: No problem sirs, we can make that happen.
- It's been curious to see the number of major media pundits doing the "Wonder how long his pretty little face will last in prison?" jokes while his fellow inmates are vocally supporting him
  Really lets you know which side everyone is lining up on.

See, his mistake was not killing him during a Career Day at an elementary school. If he took out kids as well, he wouldn't get a terrorism charge.
- Dark humor is like food, not everyone gets it.

- Honestly, this applies to all of us (replace pheasant and wine with whatever you can afford)
  
  Eat your chickie nuggies, drink your honey mussy....

I don't feel terrorized. Wonder who does
- Ruthless CEOs and other greedy, rich scumbags, of course.

From what the manifesto found on him allegedly said, it sounds like his actions were politically motivated. And violence in pursuit of a political goal is kinda the definition of terrorism.
- George Washington used violence to advance his political agenda of a sovereign USA. Was George a terrorist?
  
  It's not terrorism if you win.
  
  Yes, why would you think he wasn’t?
  
  Yes, he was a good terrorist. He wasn't captured by the enemy.
  Luigi was pretty dumb wearing that creepy outfit at a McD. He was captured. Regardless of how you feel about him, being captured was a major failure.
  
  If he used violence against noncombatants.
  Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terror attacks though.
  
  4th of July is a national celebration of terrorism.
- No?
  It's very obviously an action made with intent to cause terror. It doesn't have to be political or violent. There is often an aspect of violence and political motivation but it isn't a requirement
  
  Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.
  It's pretty much always meant violence for an ideology or cause. And the political motivation is very much what makes the difference.
  Words do have definitions.
  
  He likely intended to cause terror for the victims minority.

Is there any chance that the terrorism charge is so ridiculous that it actually strengthens Luigi's case and makes his defense better?
- Yes because it specifically allows examining his motive from a political angle which allows the defense to question the character of the guy he shot, which increases the chance of nullification.
- Depends on how brain rotted the jury is
- Man, if the fact that Luigi, the smiling man, and the actual shooter are visibly three different people isn't enough of a defense, nothing is. The ruling class wants to see someone punished for this crime, and rule of law bends to their will. He will be sentenced to life in prison or death by the end of this month, mark my words.
  
  I don't think it will be that fast but yes I think there will be no other outcome.

Freedom fighter
Ftfy
- One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

It's more of an assassination in my opinion.
- justifiable sin

So "terrorism" equals "middle eastern"?
- Hey, I don't make the rules.
- There's only one country who thinks like that, and they happen to be the whitest, most prolific terrorists on the planet
  
  Is it Switzerland again? They always seem to be right on time..
  
  only one
  switzerland? sweden? germany? france? usa? denmark? austria?
- thank you for this comment. it’s not a huge detail as i approve of the overall rhetorical goals of this post but there was absolutely no need for middle eastern folks to be catching strays for this 😭

uh, dunno if people have noticed but the Mediterranean is kind of goin through some shit right now. Also Italy has a pretty notable history of bombings and assassinations
But also what the other person said, dude is american. I’m so sick of my family members talking like sopranos characters because our grandparents were actual Italians. Plus they 100% definitely didn’t say gabbagool and proshoot before like 2003
- Gabagool has been around for centuries.
  
  Yeah but they're saying their family didn't start pronouncing it that way until they saw the Sopranos and think it makes them special.
- Yes, we know he's an American citizen, calm down please. So was Al Capone BTW, who certainly worked a lot harder to deserve a terrorism charge, but they ended up nailing him on tax evasion. So perhaps it's really the definition of terrorism that changed. I think you're taking the joke a little too serious.
  As for your family members, I'm afraid I can't help you with that.
  
  I refuse to calm down and I demand help
  
  I suggest you actually check the definition of terrorism, Capone wasn't motivated by political ideals, he was motivated by good old fashioned greed.