'Panic' in Ukraine as leaked confidential Trump peace plan astounds: report

You see, this is how Palestinian, resistance groups, and all colonized countries feel when Europe and North America made sure to suck the living resources out of them, making them cheap labour if they decide to escape their land.
In this case, Trump is treating Ukraine the same way they treat south america and other small nations.

If this will happen expect Americans to die in terrorist attacks.

What I am most curious about is how long ago Trump and Putin first had a discussion about this arrangement, and what the quid pro quo details are. Because of course there is one.

Have we forgotten that Trump has no power in Ukraine. All this means is that Europe has to provide a bit more funding.
Honestly, not even that much.
Keep fighting Russia without the US. Tell Trump to pound sand.
- Not really feasible. The US has intelligence assets, spy satellites, AWACs, munitions spare parts, etc. that Europe can’t easily replace or doesn’t hold the rights to distribute to Ukraine without US consent.
  There is a reason the US doesn’t have universal healthcare.
  
  The US has enough money for both universal healthcare and our obscene military budget, we just choose to only have one.
  
  As funny as that joke is (and I have certainly laughed at it I the past), I do not believe the US is indispensable in the fight against Russia. Incredibly helpful yes. It will be a big loss. That said…
  If the rest of us stay engaged, Ukraine will have what it needs.
  I am much more concerned that the US will drop sanctions against Russia. Draining Russia’s bank accounts is critical.
  Worse, as countries like Canada move their energy sales away from the US, I can see the US becoming a customer of Russian energy.
  Also worried about Germany…
- Oh man. He doesent care if he has power in a country or not, he just tried to free the Tate bros in Romania.
  He just feels like the king of the world. We should not validate this feeling...
- Ukraine is already struggling immensely with the US support. Imagine what will happen without US support.
  
  The biggest problem is likely to be Trump ditching the sanctions on Russia. Or even becoming a customer of Russian energy.
  
  The US has not really done all that much. That said, as above, others would have to step up.
  But the US has mostly been sending old stock and then replenishing their own. All the money they claim to be sending is being spent in the US.
  And anything actually new has been very, very slow rolled. Canada made the mistake of piggy-backing purchases on US orders. Air defence systems Canada fully funded (money to the US) in early 2023 are only being delivered now.
  
  Or US supporting Russia.
  If Ukraine says no, Trump's going to double down on the "it's Ukraine fault" narrative and start supporting Russia to promote "peace"
- Until recently the US supplied a lot of weapons to Ukraine. That did give US official opinion a lot of weight.
  Since Trump and his Republican followers have stopped all aid to Ukraine this influence has evaporated. Why would you care about the opinion of someone who has literally just left you to die?

Well, Europe needs to grow a pair and tell Trump to fuck off. We need to accept that he is leaving Nato, and European countries need to take it over or set up a new organisation. He can make any deal he likes with Russia; Europe and Ukraine can just tell him no and show him the true limits of his power. He cannot dictate to Europe and he is not our president.
- As an American, it scares the hell out of me, but I agree with you.
  
  They need to embargo us.
  Make the US economy absolute dog shit so the GOP gets nuked in 2026. There's enough GOP Senate seats in play to remove Trump from office in early 2027.
- In Canada, the public discourse has finally caught up with this. We'll see how long Europe takes to get past the denial stage.
  
  After JD Vance's little trip to Europe, a lot of European countries are beginning to consider the US to be an adversary.
  
  It’s beginning, i hope it grow strong enough because it will take a few years of pain before we emerge stronger. I doubt the majority of Canadian have a strong enough resolve now. We can easily be divided.
- Europe is not united enough. Lot's of states deal with their own rise of fascism. It's depressing.
- I really hope Europe starts making some moves.
  From the moment he won the election until now we've seen a lot of world leaders attempting to make nice with him and appease him. It should be clear now that he cannot be appeased nor will his ego ever be satisfied. He is going to take and take and take until other countries start telling him no and laying out boundaries that they're willing to strictly enforce if need be.
  
  In the US, there seems to be little understanding of the situation in Europe, which can create false hope. Europe is dealing with the same shit as the US, it's just way behind. But it's going the same direction.
  Also, Europe is not enough of a united entity. There are still national states, it's easy to stir up nationalistic moods. And in many European countries, pro-billionaire populists and far-right parties are getting to power.
  I wouldn't say there's no hope at all, but let's look at the real situation.
  
  Did you leave it intentionally vague wether you were talking about P or T? I kind of find it nice how it fits both, how similar they are.
- And this is the problem with "America first." Those who are the most selfish inevitably find themselves alone and miserable.
- But all leaders have to be on the same page.
  And then this needs to be agreed upon once again so that the current president of the european council makes a clear statement.
  If they got the balls the transition period will take some time I suppose.
  This is what is leveraged currently, imo.
  But this isn't mostlikely the entire world dynamic.. Idk.
- Leaving Nato drastically increases the chances he attacks Canada and attacking Canada will cause a civil war. 100%
  
  If Trump takes Canada, he better occupy it and not integrate it politically.
  Adding 40 million people to the US population without representation seems unlikely. With representation, that many people with Canadian opinions will mean no more Republican House or President for generations. Are the 10 provinces getting senate seats? 2 each? Never another red senate if that happens. Electoral College votes?
  Honestly, he is going to add the second largest country in the world as a single state? Good luck.
  Will 51st state Canadians be able to move to other parts of the US? Because just the snowbirds already there would turn Florida, Texas, Arizona, and Nevada blue overnight.

So many assasinations in world history, they really arent that rare of a thing.

I am so fucking embarrassed to be an American. Fuck this country and its “leaders”
- Personally I'm disgusted to be in the same country as the people who approve of this. Makes me fucking sick.
- Hopefully, we'll open Canada's doors to Americans like you soon. Sending you digital hugs my friend.
  
  I really appreciate you saying this (although I'm not OP). I'm scared for my family, my kid is in the LGBTQ community, and we live in fucking Florida, the smelly dick of the US. We are getting our passports setup just in case.
  I work in maintenance/construction, and I'm surrounded by MAGA screaming idiots. These people can't be argued with. All these people care about is hurting others. It's astounding what this country has become. A shell of its former self. The US has already failed, and none of them can see it.
- As an American I'm not embarrassed. The whole world should have seen this coming. This country elected Trump in ~~2020~~ EDIT: My mistake, Trump was elected in 2016. Americans showed you what type of time they're on. When he lost re-election Americans tried to force his presidency. The Democrats were too weak while they had power, always trying to take the high road. If any country is still dumb enough to rely on the US for anything then they get what they get.
  EDIT 2: spell check
  
  Trump did not get elected in 2020....he was elected 2016. Biden was elected 2020.
  Have to correct because the craziest think he did win 2020.
  
  And by "high road" you mean the one paved by donor money, not the morally high road.
  
  The Democrats were too weak while they had power
  Don't you think this attitude is the reason why you're in this mess? Wanting a strong ruler rather than having politicians that follow the law and try to provide good government. If the Democrats were "strong" then you'd have a Democrat strongman and you'd still be in the same mess.
- Unfortunately, they are not 100% the problem. Certain groups of loyal citizens put them there.
  So while I agree, fuck every politician in office, let's not forget to give credit where credit is due to the "american" people.
  And don't tell me those same people are just brainwashed. No, those same people would have put a fascist in power regardless of how educated they are. Evangelicals are just clueless and even the smart ones suck cheeto dick.
  
  Agreed. America honestly deserves this shit. I hope they take social security away from all these old mostly boomer republicans that voted for this shit and they suffer miserably. It’s what they wanted and they still will tell you with a straight face this is what they want. I was never gonna get it anyways.
  
  Sincerely, thank you for specifying the State religion of evangelical "Supply Side Jesus" as its own evil cult, and not alienating the rest of us who stand with you. I always appreciate that nuance in this kind of discourse.
  There's a lot of Christians here, myself included, horrified by every second of this, watching people calling themselves "christians" give themselves over willingly to corruption and sheer evil and unfiltered hatred at an alarming rate.
  Of course we're silenced on many fronts: Most of the money for churches comes from powerful americultist organizations and donors, who are obviously in the angry orange baby Hitler's pocket, and they're seeding such hateful polarization that even leftists are turning on us and discounting us outright.
  We're not as loud, well-funded, or numerous as the cult of hatred and warmongering and greed. But we know that the Jesus of the Gospel who commanded us to "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is not the Jesus of the State, and to throw one's lot in with these politicians is to deliberately side with the legions of Hell.
  I am heartbroken and ashamed at how many people I once thought good and decent, who have fallen for this lie and follow such a disgraceful monster.
- Don't be embarrassed for the actions of poloticians. We only have the illusion of choice in the US. You can be embarrassed for the human race if you like. Cause "leaders" like this exist in the first place.
  
  This is definitely our punishment for elevating sociopathy to celebrity, rather than chasing it out into the dark woods with pointy sticks.
  
  We absolutely had a choice
- Don't be embarrassed for the actions of poloticians. We only have the illusion of choice in the US. You can be embarrassed for the human race if you like. Cause "leaders" like this exist in the first place.
  
  Our people did this. I see the ignorance and stupidity on a daily basis. People are cheering this shit on. It’s disgraceful.
  
  Politicians gain their power from The People. It is alarming as an American that nearly half the country actually wants this to happen because "the other side is getting hurt" without recognizing that they too will suffer alongside the people they are told to dislike.
  What was that infamous quote from POTUS LBJ again? "Convince the poorest white that he's better than the richest black so you can pick his pockets clean [paraphrasing]"
- Don't be embarrassed for the actions of poloticians. We only have the illusion of choice in the US. You can be embarrassed for the human race if you like. Cause "leaders" like this exist in the first place.

Who had Trump and Putie collude to Own Ukraine on their Fascist Dictator Bingo cards?
- That's the free space
- I had "Ukraine is fucked" as the first thing on my list of outcomes if Trump won the election. Does that count? 😔
  
  One is the result of the other, soooo… yes. We can count that.

So basically 1939 again, with Ukraine playing Poland, and you all know who the US are playing.
- Playing the role of Nazi America.
  
  USSR betrayed Poland, and conquered them in a nutshell
- It would be a grand historical irony if the country that ultimately ensures Ukraine's freedom from Russia ends up being Germany.
  "We are here to liberate you from the Russians....and this time, we really mean it!"
- I mean, you could argue they're more like Fascist Italy. The parallel with Germany is mainly that they're already a great power.
  
  The parallel is the country that Europe either appeases or opposes.
  I hope they get it right this time.

Credit to Putin, it's a good play. The only counter is for Europe to unite against both Russia and the current US government.
Theoretically possible, but unlikely unless the non-EU states also fall in line early.
- What we have to realize is that, if this were WWII, the one playing Germany is now the US.
  The lesson from WWII was that you do not appease the aggressor. Europe has to oppose the US. It does not matter how difficult that seems. They have to.
  If not, Trump is not stopping at Ukraine. He will make demands of all of Europe while tariffing and cutting his own European defence spending the entire time.
  The time to stand-up to Trump is now.
  Back Ukraine. Stand up to the US. Russia is contained as long as we find Ukraine. The USA is not.
- Imagine telling Americans during the second red scare, about the political climate of today. History is weird.
- Do it. Fuck US.
  
  No, don't Fuck the US. I dont want to pay for Trump and kins sins.
  Just fuck Trump, Musk, and the republican party and its support/propaganda network.
  I will gladly endorse having foreign forces enter america to arrest these traitors to humanity, to take them to the hague for trial and execution.
- The reality is that the EU states are falling out.

Pretty sure this is just part of the "give them a terrible deal they wouldn't agree to" strat that means Trump can say "we gave them a very good deal and they refused, Russia can do what they want".
It's all bullshit and always has been.
- I can already see this being parroted back to me by my relatives who watch Hungarian TV stations

It doesn't matter if the USA promises liberation from Russia, protection for eternity and the cure for cancer... the word of the USA means less than nothing now...
Ukraine has the same chance of benefiting if they just help that poor Nigerian Prince and use the resulting reward to buy weapons
- the word of the USA means less than nothing ~~now~~…

Unbelievable. Every day, I'm amazed that a man I don't even freaking know can piss me off this much on pretty much a daily basis. The man just literally has no shame, none, zero.
- I honestly despise the fact that this man (as well as Musk) has made me into a bitter person who hates. I don't want to hate anyone. I can feel it destroying my soul (or whatever you want to fucking call it).
  
  It's bitter, but let's make lemonade. Embrace it as the fuel to drive whatever actions seem necessary and possible to you.
  Take care of that light which lets you see how hate is no good, although, maybe you can yield it as a shield to brace the storm head on.
  We could get philosophical about who that 'you' or 'your soul' is, which feels like being destroyed, and wether it really is. On one hand, this entity will still remain. Though not unchanged. But isn't that a good thing? I prefer being capable of feeling pain, as it sometimes just plainly is a totally appropriate reaction or sensation. I know that feeling of breaking, but on the other hand, if I could not feel that anymore, I surely was already broken. Dull and unmoved. So in a paradoxical sense, it is an affirmation that you are fine, a fine person.
  
  Yep. The other option is to be ignorant of all the fucked up shit they do which isn't any better 😒
  
  I know exactly what you mean!

The Ukrainians started fighting before any guarantees and support started coming in from the west. They are fighting for their own self determination. Trump thinking he can just impose this is just not understanding that the Ukrainians can simply say no. And when they do, his all powerful persona will be exposed even more for the scam that it is.
Russian battleship and American president: fuck off!

Putin’s puppet doing his job well. The Orange Turd delivers garbage as usual.
- Putin’s puppet
  "Putin's puppet" is the ceo of the wealthiest country in the world and the strongest army in history. You probably don't like to hear but if there are any puppets they are most likely the 10 times weaker players
  
  Or are easily manipulated narcissists. Trump before running for office in the first place laundered money for Russian oligarchs and an extensive and prolonged Russian based disinformation is the main reason he has the cult he does. Also key point: everything Trump has done indicates he is a coward. It doesn't matter how strong a coward is
  
  Don't bother. People here would rather have Putin as god-emperor than face the reality of institutional failure that got them here. Twice.

Motherfucker looks like he’s inflated to Baron Harkonnen size

Trump is not a public servant, he is a crooked business man. He doesn't think about making life on earth better, he thinks about ripping people off as much as he can get away with.
- Sounds like my parents' pastor
  
  Ooof. That's heartbreaking, I'm so sorry. :(

Well... If I was China, I'd see this as a motivation to invade Taiwan.
If the invasion works, it works.
If it doesn't, simply wait for a US president that isn't able to plan 3 days ahead.
- I wonder if Taiwan is mulling over a peaceful reunification with China as a result of this mess. Their independence depends in large part on US support, but with Trump at the helm they're likely to face extortion when they need it most.
  
  Trump has already directed the removal of language saying Taiwan is NOT independent (pissing off the Chinese) and is trying to scale back the CHIPS Act (making us more dependent on Taiwan). Putting those two things together with this "deal" for Ukraine, it feels to me like he is setting us up for a Chinese invasion of Taiwan where he can make a similar "deal" with Taiwan where we protect them in exchange for 50% of their chip making profits.

The Telegraph noted, “Trump’s demands would amount to a higher share of Ukrainian GDP than reparations imposed on Germany at the Versailles Treaty, later whittled down at the London Conference in 1921, and by the Dawes Plan in 1924.”
This is an extraordinarily bad move.
I'm glad to see steps taken toward the war ending, but this is the sort of Big Mac diplomacy that's just patently moronic. Trump seems to think he can just order up what he wants and it's going to magically happen without any negative consequences.
Even if you're a world superpower, there's only so much you can demand of another country. The Iraq embargo, for instance, gave rise to Al Qaeda and the eventual destruction of the World Trade Towers. (And that was the SECOND attempt, after a group of terrorists tried to bomb them previously in the 90's.)
- I'm quite certain that this deal is intended to be unpalatable to Ukraine - it was cooked up by Trump and Putin after all.
  Either way they win:
  Ukraine takes the deal: they win; Ukraine says the deal is ridiculous and walks away: then Russia & Trump brand them as unrealistic agitants and delay for more favourable terms and extend the war.
  
  this deal is intended to be unpalatable to Ukraine
  Oh, I get that. Still pretty stupid.
- The Iraq embargo, for instance, gave rise to Al Qaeda and the eventual destruction of the World Trade Towers.
  This is a racist narrative that relies on the assumption that Arabs have no control over themselves and "they're all the same". Also relies on the false narrative that Saddam Hussein supported Al Qaeda that was promoted during the build up to the Iraq War.
  The reality is that Al Qaeda were enemies of Saddam Hussein, because not all Arabs are the same person. And a psychopath like Saddam Hussein doesn't want other psychopaths around as competition.
  Try to see past American exceptionalism and understand that not everything in the world is defined by it's relation to the US.
  
  Osama Bin Laden literally referenced the sanctions against Iraq in his fatwa justifying his attacks on Americans.
  But okay. Thank you for your response and your insights.
  
  The Iraq embargo, for instance, gave rise to Al Qaeda and the eventual destruction of the World Trade Towers.
  This is a racist narrative that relies on the assumption that Arabs have no control over themselves and “they’re all the same”.
  Nah. Even if we assume (which we do) that Arabs, like any other group of people, aren't all the same, and that they do have (partial) control over themselves, like anyone else ... the decisions and fates of a sufficiently large number of them can still be influenced by a sufficiently large external influence, such as revoked access to international trade. Sometimes in chaotic ways. Heck, if billboard ads work in influencing people, it seems difficult to believe more intrusive changes to people's lifes would have no effect.
  Since the article already mentions it, for example Germany between the WWs. The height of reparations was helpful for nationalistic and ultimately again militaristic groups in Germany to gain power. Not as an automatism, not as a justification, simply recognizing a statistical causality. Peace isn't equal peace. What's a foul peace worth? We need conditions which support a stable and peaceful coexistence, not plant the seeds for the next war.
- Like I simply could not believe he thinks he could add that. Even the most tyrannical warlords of the past didn't demand that much tribute from people they conquered. The Mongols and Romans would blush at this shit.

Nothing Trump has ever said has been "confidential" 😂
He could make a tweet saying he's going to destroy the continent with a deathray tomorrow, and MAGA fascists would make a tiktok dance to celebrate it. There's no Watergate this time around, only Leopard's All-you-can-eat face buffet™
- Except that one time he had that meeting with Putin without translators, and he ate the notes.
  No, this is not a joke. I may be conflating two events.
  
  He did meet Putin with no intermediaries. An intern also reported that he would eat notes from White House meetings. I'm not sure whether it happened at the same time but I would be completely unsurprised.

Now the EU should leak a report that says without USA's guaranteed peace and NATO breaking up, chances for Russia to attack the EU are pretty much 100%, so better to tariff the USA to astronomical levels, use that money to fund the EU military and attack now before Russia has a chance to rebuild.

So a mafia protection racket?
- Except for protection.
- Should bring up the whole administration on RICO charges.

Trump signs deals and then just ignores them when he sees fit. He lies about everything. Look at what he is trying to do to Canada who he has a free trade deal with that he signed and said was the best deal ever. Guy is a liar.

How is Israel paying back? Or those are donations? 🤔

Could they agree to it then mine nothing until Trump leaves and renegotiate as a NATO member
- Do you think Trump would be above bombing them himself for "breaking the deal"?
  
  I'm wondering if he'll attack them for not signing.
- mine nothing
  So just kill their own economy?

The telegraph is a right-wing outfit and should be viewed through the lens of that bias. This article repeats their undermining of Ukraine.
- I knew as much as soon as I read "panic in Kyiv".
  They love to make Europe look scared.
- Also it doesn't mention much of a "peace plan", these are just Trump's terms to "reparate" him for all the aid the US sent to Ukraine. Ukraine didn't sign this exact deal because it didn't even offer them any security guarantees in return. Clickbait journalism.

Strange way for the US to concede their defeat. (One more!) But to each their own.

I'm almost expecting Trump to come out of the "special meetings" with Putin with the result that unlike Ukraine, Russia agreed to pay up, so the US will now deliver weapons to Russia and, of course, drop all sanctions.

Good job inbred Americans.
- Take foreign policy issues up with the leaders who proposed them. Leave innocent citizens out of this, and support those who resist Trump.
  Ethnic and cultural insults only furthers the divide between European and American culture.
  
  Mmmm gonna have to disagree, as an American. None of this happened in a vacuum, of course, but our citizenry inarguably shit the bed quite thoroughly here, and now we need to lay in it. Fascism and oligarchy are the order of the day here, as are protectionism, isolationism, xenophobia, racism, and nativism. By all means support the resistance, but American culture is, at this point, rife with things to not be proud of. I’ve never felt more politically or ideologically alienated in my life. Our playbook is not it. Use us as a cautionary tale. I hope we can pull out of this tailspin at some point, but I’m not sure that’s a guaranteed thing - and for god’s sake don’t follow our lead here.

Why would anybody expect a genocidal empire to stop another genocidal empire? They're the same thing.
Ukraine should have allied with palestinians, the global south, and other people resisting invasion and colonization by empire(s).
- Why would anybody expect a genocidal empire to stop another genocidal empire? They’re the same thing.
  Nations don't cooperate/conflict over how many similarities they have (although that makes things easier), but over how much their interests are aligned. It is well possible for two genocidal empires to oppose as adversaries, e.g. Nazi Germany and Soviet Union, the latter being proud of stopping the former.
  Another example, colonizing empires fighting over their colonies. Neither did so to free the colony of the oppressor, but to become/remain that oppressor. You can imagine these empires as much the same as you like, they can still have conflicting interests (as in who rules the colony, not wether anyone should) resulting in fights up to World Wars.
  Ukraine should have allied with palestinians, the global south, and other people resisting invasion and colonization by empire(s).
  How would that have helped them, apart from moral feelings? How many tanks, artillery systems, intel or even humanitarian aid would that have provided? Aren't the proposed countries more receivers of such things than donors?
- Because the people are not the genocidal ones. They never are. If you were actually a good person who fights for the equality of minorities instead of a left-wing stealth-bigot, you'd recognize left-wing stealth bigots are no better than right-wing white supremacists.
  I'm mixed race, so don't even try to play that card. Fuck off, and never be woke again, you heartless self-centered sycophant.
- "Whatever happened to the non-aligned movement?"
  "He's over there."

There's absolutely no sense in that, it would normally just be rights to it like they get the first chance to buy it so they have a guaranteed supply.

- Why do all of your posts straight up read like LLM slobber
  
  I had doubts, but scrolling through their comment history almost every comment is this length without much variation. Then I saw those were all just in the past eight hours. Seems pretty fishy to me.
  Edit: I kept scrolling and wow, the sheer volume of comments this length is astounding. I would normally expect more variation in topics and comment length.
  
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