Yeah, let's stop with this "don't judge people for their poiltics" bullshit

If they were capable of feeling shame, this might hurt them.
- They're capable of feeling shame, just not for what you or I feel shame for.
  The trick is to find out what hurts them.
  
  You’ve got to make them an outcast to their in group.
  So stupid shit like pointing out their hands are nicely manicured (if they are a man) that’s why they wear lifts and shoes too large for their feet.
  Or for women you call them a man. That’s why they do it to every woman they hate.
  Just observe them. They lay their cards right on the table.

I told a former friend of mine that I’d lost so much respect for her judgment of character that I couldn’t continue pretending not to look down on her and that it would be best if we stopped hanging out together.
No regrets.
- I've cut all family and friends who voted for trump from my life.
  No regrets.

"But I just cared about the economy (more than civil rights, democracy, the rule of law, or basic human decency.)"
- For me, this is the most maddening comment about our situation. The economy has done better under democratic leadership since we’ve kept track.
  
  It's worrying. This demonstrates (again) how people can be manipulated into supporting anything if tickled the right way.

I judge you for all that and also for your choice of political party because they represent all those things.

All this, except change "Trump" to "literally any Republican in the last 50 years"
They've been dog whistling at racists to try to win elections their "kill the new deal and bring back feudalism" economic platform couldn't at least since Goldwater ran for the presidency

Top vs bottom not left versus right. Don't let the oligarchs divide us.
- No warfare but class warfare
- How are those different?
  
  They're very different.
  There's only about 3k billionaires on Earth. There's only about 30k 100 million plus inaires on Earth.
  These are sociopaths sucking humanity dry and ending the habitability of this planet permanently for ego, short term profit, and mega yachts.
  Focus your ire on them. Focus your antagonism on them. Not their poor, deluded, propandized, gullible useful idiots that diefy them. Pity them.
  The true enemies that must be dealt with only number in the hundreds of thousands relative to our 300 million. We know where to find them. They suck each other off in places like Wall Street and Malibu, orchestrating new and interesting ways to murder us to goose quarterly profits.

I know some very good people who voted for the incompetent, confused and weak Jabba-the-Orange. I judge them to be extremely stupid.
- What amazingly good acts have they done to outweigh their support of such evil? The genocide in Gaza will be completed and climate change will get significantly worse.

"It's just another Voting Culture(tm)"

The correct way is to judge people for what they activelly support, which also means not slimly implying that by not supporting one side people implicitly support the other - it's a perfectly valid position to not like any of the choices one has been presented with and thus chosing "None of the above" rather than A or B.
"If you're not with us you're against us" is just about the most typically Fascist (and, more in general, authoritarian) argument there is, so those doing it don't be surprised if, even if you're wearing a different mask than outright-Fascist and claiming you have the moral high ground, you're judged as somebody who thinks along the same lines as Fascists rather than along Democratic or Humanitarian lines.
Mind you, the quoted post is impeccably fair in that sense, but here in Lemmy there's a lot of people who, unlike that quote, stray beyond blaming people for their choices into parroting authoritarian logic that blames people for non-choices.
- Do you know who coined the phrase If you're not with me you are against me? George Orwell. Even being 'neutral' means you passively support whatever bullshit the 'winner' wants to do. Inaction is as much a choice of action as doing something. If you have a fire extinguisher and there is a person literally on fire but you simply do nothing, you are as responsible for the person's horrific death as the person who set them on fire.
  Saying 'I am completely neutral in this regard' when Elon Musk and his cronies are actively plundering the government and absolutely destroying the government's ability to investigate the crimes and misconduct that they are committing, as well as destroying the livelihoods and lives of millions of people, means you are fully accepting of what is going on, that it is normal and if they want to do it, they can go ahead.
- Haha wait a minute.
  Are you... Are you trying to justify your Uncommitted BoTh SiDeS bullshit?
  As though drinking the lesser poison is as bad as drinking the greater poison.
  As though this not only means you're opting for this, but you're contributing to the current that forces others to do the same by enabling the greater poison?
  As though just because you weren't necessarily the person to rat out Anne Frank, you also didn't lift finger to resist the Nazi oppression that makes one superior? Looking the other way and sitting on the couch?
  Because if this is the case, then yes, there are people like me who utilize logic & ethics to demonstrate that said people are, indeed, a part of the problem and enabling of fascism.

Unpopular opinion: if you base your arguments in political debates around morals, you'll only be able to convince people who share your moral standpoint.
- I don't think the point here is "I should be able to convince you", it's "We're not friends anymore, because you're a genuine piece of shit from a moral standpoint".
  
  Good luck with trying to improve the political landscape while not talking to a large part of the population, then. ¯(ツ)/¯
- If Trump voters could be convinced they wouldn't have voted trump, so this doesn't change my calculus.
  
  If Trump voters could be convinced
  Are you sure you're actually in favor of democracy, if you have such a misanthropic worldview?
- As a Leftwinger (real one, not the American notion of left-of-Trump being Leftwing) this is something I've though about a lot.
  For example, most people are driven to some level or other by Greed: for example, if you think about it, when people from the "Working class" demand things for the "Working class", are they driven by a pure desire for equality or is it really about benefiting themselves as members of the "Working class"? Ditto for "Positive Discrimination" being demanded by people who will benefit from it - is it really about equality or is it Personal Upside Maximization hidding behind the "group"?
  Choices driven by Greed above all often collide with the whole "Greatest good for the greatest number" principle of the Leftwing.
  Anyways, "screw you, my moral standpoint is different so I don't care about what you say" as an absolute rule is how the Left fragments, so indeed an absolutist take of "If your Moral standpoint is not exactly the same as mine I won't listen to you" is self-defeating in the strategical sense.
  Then again, going totally in the opposite direction - i.e. no people should be shunned due to their Moral standpoint - also ends up with some weird results: if somebody has a moral standpoint that "Slavery is just the Weak being put in their proper place by the Strong, and as Strong people they're superior hence have a right to chose what others do" (I almost puked a little in my mouth writting this), should we really try to do anything else than shun people whose moral standpoint is that?
  Personally my compromise is that some Moral standpoints are unnacceptable and those who hold them do not deserve any attempt at finding a middle point between me and them - in other words, even in Morality there are red lines - and whilst we should indeed listen to those who are on the right side of those red lines even if we don't quite have the same Moral standpoint, those on the wrong side of those red lines are beyond salvation and not worth the effort.
  
  if you think about it, when people from the "Working class" demand things for the "Working class", are they driven by a pure desire for equality or is it really about benefiting themselves as members of the "Working class"?
  There's a difference to "greed" and "self-interest". It benefits me as a member of the working class if my class gets power. Personally, I have a moral reason behind class solidarity. But it's not the only reason.
  Then again, going totally in the opposite direction - i.e. no people should be shunned due to their Moral standpoint - also ends up with some weird results
  Yeah, I didn't say that you should never disagree with someone based on moral grounds. But if you're debating with someone, then moral arguments can be very ineffective or you basically already agree with each other. The OP in the tweet chose to gloat about their moral superiority, which helps basically no one.
  and whilst we should indeed listen to those who are on the right side of those red lines even if we don't quite have the same Moral standpoint, those on the wrong side of those red lines are beyond salvation and not worth the effort
  I think that the amount of people who are that far gone is way exaggerated. I'm sure that a lot of Trump voters are in the "leopards ate my face" cathegory and can therefore be convinced. But you don't convince people by shaming them. The others (Nick Fuentes and the likes) don't care about your moral judgement.
- Reading through this thread I understand the gist of your statement but you never said what you would recommend?
  
  Materialist and power analysis. Trump does things because it suits him materially. Not cause he's evil. So does Elon Musk. Ask what Trump has actually done for the Trump supporter.
  Everything is going to shit in the US, and instead of doubling down on "how does renaming the Gulf of Mexico lower the prices of eggs?", online libs keep complaining on how the vote turned out and that you gan't convince MAGAs.
- Fuck that, this is just another rendition of the centrist/both sides bad/fascist apologizer number. Everyone that voted for this deserves to be ridiculed and called out to face the reality that they have forced upon the rest of us. Maybe then the lesson will stick. We tried the polite way and millions of people spat in our face. We do not have to take the higher road.
  
  I get the sinking feeling that a lot of Trump supporters are at a point where they simply won't trust anything we tell them.
  They've skillfully avoided the truth up to this point. They've drank enough kool-aid that they'll remain resolute in their "rightness" through shitstorm after self-imposed shitstorm. It's not about facts with them; it's about their feels. Their feels tell them that they are right and everyone in their ~~cult~~ "community" agrees, so they must be correct.
  The last thing that will convince them they were wrong, would be screamed realities from people they already don't trust.
  
  Name one person who was convinced to do something by being shamed. You're bust making them double down.
- Famously didn’t work for republicans! Oh wait.
  
  How are the republicans a counterexamplex o.O

If you voted for either imperial candidate...
- Go on bb. Say it with your whole chest. These ellipsis look bad on you. You believe it, say it. Tell us how fascists and liberals are the exact same thing. Go on. We are waiting.
  
  Fascists and liberals are not the exact same thing. Liberals prefer to implement the final solution on a slightly slower timetable and in stages, while fascists are more inclined to just cut loose all undesirables as fast as possible.
- "The oppressed should work towards their own murder, in solidarity with all the other oppressed folk being murdered!
  It won't stop anyone from being murdered, but it'll make those of us not in any danger feel really pure 😊"
- I'm not having that argument again. I understand the position that they were equally bad, and I support the rights of folks who couldn't vote for either of them because of that. But while I do acknowledge that US imperialism is not just a meme, I had to work with what I was given, and that was bad or less bad. I chose less bad.
  I respect that others saw it differently and that's all I have to say on the matter.
  
  I understand the position that they were equally bad
  I don't. Every single day proves that over and over again. I understand being an idealistic young person with no practical experience, but in those situations the intelligent thing to do is to listen to people and not triple-down on the GRU playbook.
  Those who are neither idealistic or young, who couldn't be arsed to do the one thing that would have helped defeat fascism need to understand what a fuckup they are.
  
  I support the rights of folks who couldn't vote for either of them because of that. But while I do acknowledge that US imperialism is not just a meme, I had to work with what I was given
  Exceedingly well put, I don't know why that simple little bit of understanding is so impossible for some Harris supporters