Musk says DOGE is halting Treasury payments to US contractors

At what point do we declare this a coup? This isn't what even the most diehard conservatives out there voted for, I don't understand how this isn't considered a hostile takeover.

They're in too deep to admit how badly they obviously fucked up. Shit is gonna have to actually reach the ugly bitter end, leaving them no other possible explanation to try to hide behind. In the meantime, this must be what it felt like for the citizens of Rome as it burned.
- It is not until it affects them on a personal level they make that realization. That is how far the empathy of the average conservative voter reaches.
- And here I am, too damn poor to afford a fiddle...
This isn’t even what the most diehard conservatives out there voted for
- Fucking yes.
  All conservatives at the tables with all these nazis asking who voted in all the nazis.
  At this point your party has folded. Keep saying "but not meeeee, I'm a real conservative!" All you want.
- Hungarian here, whose face got eaten by the leopards.
  Political illiteracy is a serious problem, and so is the access to information. They actually thought the crime rates were up, because the very few news outlets they're exposed to likes to uplift a few cases with scary headlines, often making anniversary reports on some crimes. They actually thought, that the opposition was "too far-left", because pundits told them so, and they learned in school the real nazis did evil things for the sole sake of evil, thus people that say they want to eliminate crime, and have crime statistics must not be far-right.
  This is not for to excuse their behavior, but to explain it. Maybe can even lead to an end of this cycle.
When this happens in a developing country we laugh at their politics.
When it happens in America, no one bats an eye
- Oh no I am absolutely laughing at America
- Americans still think their country is somehow different even though it's still a developing country in many respects.
- USA is the new banana republic.
It’s stressing me out to no end. I think the average person doesn’t even know this is currently happening.
- I don't follow politics. I voted for trump because it was badass when he said fight fight fight. Elon's a genius, I'm sure he's gonna make it better.
  These are real takes I've heard out there in the world.
- Very rural area dweller, here, two towns over doing errands. Just spoke with an elderly Mango Mussolini voter/Faux News consumer who already regrets his choice.. I commented it's time to stop voting to hurt others and vote for taxpayer dollars to help the common people, rather than billionaires. He agreed.
- It's being censored.
Now, it is happening right now: https://snyder.substack.com/p/the-logic-of-destruction
Now, arm up
This is exactly what they voted for and they'll fucking do it again.

So... SpaceX is one of the contractors not being paid right? Right?

L-m-a-o roflmao even

Oh please start halting payments to government contractors. This guy starts holding payments to Lockheed Martin and Raytheon he's going to wind up real Dead real quick

Or Boeing. Boeing certainly seems to not have an issue with taking care of people who are causing them problems.
- How much can a hitman really cost?!
With the way things are going, I fully expect them to make a beneficial deal that includes Elon because fuck everything
Yep, mercenaries get rowdy when they don't get paid, just ask Constantinopole.
Or Blackrock

This is a coup

And for people who don't like that word:
Regulatory capture of the entire United States government.
Can you guys maybe do something about this? You all have guns right, I thought that was the entire point of that part of the Constitution.
- The point of that was to prevent the need for a standing military. The thought was a standing military would lead to tyranny
  Texas used to have gun free towns (sort of, when you entered you left your gun with the sheriff)
  Political parties were also a big nono, the runner up was supposed to be VP
- and which side was interested in guns and militancy, and which side was against guns and militancy?
- Unfortunately the wrong people are the ones with guns, because most of my fellow leftists in this country still believe in the myth that you don't need a gun if you're going to live in a country full of people with mental health issues and lack of access to affordable treatment.
Yet, no one's doing anything about it or can do anything. These people are all powerful now. The White House, the House, the Senate, SCOTUS, Fed. Everything belongs to the Republican Party and they can do whatever, whenever. No checks and balances.
- I reject that defeatist attitude. It’s time for tax strike and general strike and mass protests across the country as next step

This is a great way to end up on the military-indistrial complex hitlist

Raytheon would like to know your latitude and longitude
- Care package incoming.
Can only hope he goes for them and not just the small businesses and academia. Something tells me he'll go for civil facing departments and generally avoid DOD

Ah the Trump approach to contractors. And Musk approach to rent.

Great way to get sued for breach of contract. This administration is going to be tied up in court for the next four years

Unfortunately, when all this stuff is resolved, it's still the government that's on the hook, not Musk personally. Although the new admin should probably just impound all of his and Trump's assets to pay for the fallout, but obviously Democrats would never do anything this based.
- I agree Democrats won't do anything but Musk is playing at the level where he's not protected like that. All of this could easily end up in a public corruption case if he steps a single foot wrong.
Do you really think this is going to play out in a court? They don't care about the law and are actively plowing through them at will.
- Yeah I don't see LockMart and Raytheon taking that sitting down. Musk thinks he has power, he doesn't really. The MIC runs American finance.

Good to know that our elected officials in the legislative branch are no longer able to create laws that are actually enacted.

This shit is outside the scope of the presidency.

If the US government stops paying their bills at a certain point the country is technically defaulting. That's going to be fun.

Guess you’ll have to use crypto once your dollar is worthless
- If the dollar tanks, crypto's going with it.
- I don't think crypto will replace USD as a global currency if USD fails.
- Or they can use euros. They're widely accepted.
- Learn how to spin up a monero node and stick it on the tor network. Only buy bitcoin and wash it with monero for transactions.
  Don't gamble on shitcoins.
  Don't get caught up in mining or NFTs
It's almost like they're not being fiscally responsible conservatives or something...

A lot of our day to day military operations run on contractors. This seems like a good way to get more helicopters falling out of the sky.

Does anyone know what the story is behind this charity he's mentioning?

Edit: looks like they feed and provide shelter for asylum seekers, and obviously he's against that.

Because Putin wants rid of it.
U.S.A.I.D. funds democracy-promotion programs around the world, including in European countries where right-wing populist movements are thriving. Mr. Musk has become an ally of those movements, some of whose leaders have specifically targeted the agency’s pro-democracy programs in recent years.
Supporters of Viktor Orban, the right-wing leader of Hungary and a darling of pro-Trump conservatives in the United States, have personally criticized Samantha Power, who led U.S.A.I.D. during the Biden administration, for trying to import American values into their country.
NY times gift link
- I'm talking about the Lutheran charity mentioned. USAID is part of the soft power projection and regime change machine of the state department.

Can I ask? Why does Musk suddenly have this authority? "DOGE" isn't even a real Department, right? And also, Musk hasn't been elected or officially confirmed for any government position. Why the fuck is he giving orders and leading departments and having any power whatsoever over the U.S. Treasury and such? I don't understand how this works. Why doesn't the U.S. have any... I don't know, safeguards against this sort of shit? It's absolutely bonkers to watch this unfold from across the pond.

Musk just walked up, said "I'm in charge now" and everyone's just complying? Please ELI5.

Trump said he’s in charge in a private capacity
The Supreme Court is yet to say it’s not allowed
- It takes months if not years for a case to be appealed to the supeme court. They don't even accept most cases.
  Any court federal can issue an order on this if a case is brought. Courts cannot do anything unless asked. That's kind of how the legal process works. Someone, or some AG will file a suit. Might take a few days or weeks.
He doesn't. However, that is only according to this pesky technicality called "the law". If the President does not want to follow the law, and appoints people who also do not care for following the law, then the law stops being a thing to look for for authority; and Musk can do this because Trump says he can.
In the short term, expect this to be shut down by the courts. In the medium term, a bunch of these orders will end up in front of the Supreme Court that unironically said "if the president does it, it might be illegal, but he is absolutely immune from prosecution". Even if the SC come down on the only legally defensible position, Trump could still say "them and what army"
This is 100% a coup by Trump to centralize power in the executive. When staging a coup, "authority" is merely an inconvenience.
Everyone is not "just complying," two security directors of USAID were dismissed when they tried to stop the musky henchmen.
“DOGE” isn’t even a real Department, right?
Technically, Trump just renamed the United States Digital Service to the United States DOGE Service, then created a child agency within it called the United States DOGE Service Temporary Organization reporting directly to the President (which USDS does technically anyways) and hired Musk as a special government employee as head of that. A special government employee is essentially expected to work less than 130 days in the next year and are normally used to fill short term needs, or as expert topic consultants for specific projects, that sort of thing.
USDS is normally basically IT consultancy for other US departments, which is why he has access to a shocking number of keys to the kingdom, as it were.
And also, Musk hasn’t been elected or officially confirmed for any government position.
You don't have to be confirmed by the Senate for most government jobs (just a specific named handful of high ranking positions, like the Secretaries of various Cabinet Departments), and he was basically given the highest possible position he could without needing to be confirmed by the Senate.
Why the fuck is he giving orders and leading departments and having any power whatsoever over the U.S. Treasury and such? I don’t understand how this works.
The President has final authority and power over the executive branch and over time increasing power has been placed in the executive branch largely because Congress didn't want to fight over things every couple of years and the relative stability of a secondary agency staffed with experts was desirable for things like licensing radio bandwidth. USDS isn't one of these agencies though - it was created by Obama in 2014 to help manage US IT stuff (and basically started from the team that fixed the healthcare.gov site in 2013) and didn't need to be authorized by Congress because it doesn't have rulemaking power over anything outside the executive branch and thus doesn't require Congress to delegate power to it.
As for why he's giving orders and leading departments, legally he probably shouldn't be but he's also been assigned that power by Trump in a way that's questionably legal. There are at least 3 lawsuits that have been filed arguing that it's technically an advisory committee and in violation of the Federal Advisory Committee Act. I could totally see a federal judge agreeing with that, but it would eventually go to SCOTUS and we know who's dick they sucked to get there.
TL;DR: DOGE exists because it's an existing department (US Digital Service) renamed DOGE, Musk was hired under that department in basically the highest spot that wouldn't require Senate confirmation and because that department is essentially cross-departmental IT consultancy it gives him access to a shocking amount of federal IT resources. He isn't being stopped because everyone involved ultimately reports to Trump and Trump has told him to do it. There are at least three lawsuits filed claiming the United States DOGE Service Temporary Organization is in violation of the Federal Advisory Committee Act, but since it's only existed for like 10 days the courts haven't really had a chance to even hear arguments about it yet.
- Thanks for taking the time. So I guess it is all legal and Musk somehow does have all this authority.. It's bonkers, right? Doesn't it somehow feel like the U.S. government has been running relatively well for a long time based solely on.. the expectation of decency and norms, promises and gentleman's agreements? There aren't actual laws, checks or balances to avoid any of this, but it was sort of assumed that nobody in these positions would be pure evil. But then, once they're in, they can do whatever they want.
  Courts are slow everywhere, that's why it's a good idea to have some rules and roadblocks, so that someone can't just start dismantling everything on day one and courts have time to catch up before shit hits the fan.
We do have safeguards. They're all being removed one by one by the party in charge. I'm guessing that some just comply because they figure it's inevitable. On the other hand we have a long history of allowing people in power to do what they want. Bush walked into Iraq, we've had many military actions in many countries but haven't declared war since world war II.
Or maybe Musk is just pushing the boundaries before he's deported. LOL.
EDIT: changed WWIII to the intended WWII.
- Apropos typo on the WW3 part.
Because our government is filled with a bunch of geriatric FUCKS who don't give a shit and whose whole personality is 'fuck you I got mine'. There are checks and balances and this could be stopped if anyone was fucking useful to any capacity. We shouldn't have to rise up in the streets or deal with this as that's the whole god damn point of the gov. But because we allowed corporate interests to infiltrate and line the pockets of these assholes, along with there being no term limits, this is what we get.

How is anyone permitting any of these people to have authority?

Trump's government is basically pay-to-play and Elon paid the most so he gets to do whatever he wants.
- It started with a paid horse armor and he we are.
So I was looking at this today. It looks like a combination of serendipity and malicious behavior. The US Digital Service was effectively leaderless on Jan 20 when it was renamed DOGE. That's the serendipity. But it was already "excepted service" under the president instead of a congressionally chartered agency. So they could (and likely would have) simply fire any leadership.
USDS' purpose was to fix computer systems all over the government. And it was doing a great job of that. But in order to do that it does get access other agencies don't. This is where the malicious part comes in. Trump turns them into DOGE and links them with lawyers and HR people. They use their existing access authorization to get into systems and then do HR stuff instead of systems engineering. Furthermore they aren't currently funded, which means they shouldn't be operating at all. Their last funding ran out in September.
Trump can just appoint people to it because he has a wide ranging authority to do temporary hires. Another malicious catch though is Musk is clearly operating DOGE but he hasn't been put on payroll.
This is illegal, and there are lawsuits already filed. But they're counting on people not understanding the intricacies of the different kinds of federal service to enact their plan. Which to me is pretty transparently to force all agencies to submit to DOGE as a stand in for the White House and an end run around all laws about the civil service. Basically an unconstitutional power grab by the President.
Because we're all just people and at the end of the day some person is agreeing to not dispense the funds or not provide aid or to round up individuals ... Until there is meaningful pushback by people who actually are carrying this bullshit out it won't change.
Idk same as how the Nazis managed the Holocaust, at the end of the day thousands of individuals agreed and did their part to exterminate the Jews. Same as how Israel now is committing an ongoing genocide in Gaza with their military and all those individuals are carrying out their orders.
Authority, like many other things in our society, is an emphemeral concept we all agree to. Authority is given when we agree to abide by what that authority says. Same like our laws, sure we have laws against things but it's not like those actually mean anything if they're not obeyed by the majority. Nothing stopping you from doming Elon with the a large brick if you got one and can get close enough, you know what I mean?
Because yall wanted this by voting for it
- I think many didn’t want this because we voted against it

Musk is himself a giant government contractor via Space X and Starlink. Odds are he's just trying to clear the board to funnel the money to his businesses. Especially when it comes to defense money!

Hey military industrial complex! Please coup this administration all ready.

Like for real. They got rid of Malcolm, MLK, mayve even Kennedy, and organized a nationwide crack epidemic in black neighborhoods but they can't deal with the biggest actual internal threat since the Confederacy. Useless orgs filled with useless people.
Eeeeeeehhhhh, I'm not sure trading one coup for another is the solution here

Remember when people were posting articles on how stupid and ridiculous DOGE is because it wouldn't have the authority to do anything?

It's still stupid and ridiculous and it still doesn't have any legal authority.
Unfortunately, it is being allowed to act without legal authority.
He doesn't need the authority if he just forces his way in.
- Grabbed America by the pussy
- Twitter remembers.

He has no legal authority

Lawsuit submitted
Lower court determines whether to stay the action while case is handled
Changes are unrecoverable since department can't pay staff managing the payments
Law enforcement given warrant to force stay
Law enforcement chooses not to enforce because they have no motivation
Payments never restored
Case goes to supreme court
Law interpreted in favor of the administration because clearly no means yes, it's obvious
Congress doesn't respond due to right wing majority
Checks and balances are dead.
- https://generalstrikeus.com/
Legal authority stopped mattering the FIRST time the grifter in chief was selected president.
You still think the law can stop them. Adorable.
Sure he does, Elon was voted in after all. Next thing you'll probably say his clear "I love you all salute" looks like something else...

Looking at exit polls and post election polls it was the economy. Trump was very direct in his promise to lower prices. Harris ran over a hundred different messaging lines which clouded her economic message. Then she got caught on national TV defending Biden's economy and saying nothing would change.
- Yeah. IMO democrats refusing to acknowledge the state of the economy is what tipped the scale. You'd have to be a complete moron to believe Trump had any solutions for the economy, but he at least acknowledged that economically there's something wrong. Harris on the other hand doubled down on Biden's economic message of sticking your head in the sand and going "the economy is good".
Blame the election system, not the voters. Its not a democracy
- What a shitty election system. Anyway, i'll vote for the racist diaper boy.
- I hate the mango man but he won both the popular vote and electoral vote. How is that the fault of the system? The Dems put up a losing candidate that polled abysmally when she was running in the original primaries against Biden. To many in the center, the Dems had also swung too far left for their own flavor of progressive ideology. Put those two things together and they didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning the election.
  Edit: Thanks for the downvotes? I'm just stating facts. Kamala was NOT a likeable candidate for many on the left and center, so they simply didn't vote. This led to cheeto in charge winning both the PV and EC. The rest of the world isn't nearly as progressive as most folks on Lemmy.

It's just like when Dumpf would stiff his contractors LMAO 🤣

Not paying contractors, a plan straight out of the Trump playbook.

I pray they're dumb enough to stop payments to Lockheed it Raytheon. Problem might solve itself
- Mess with the military industrial complex. A wise plan for the Twits, Musk and Trump.

https://generalstrikeus.com/

I see lawsuits flooding the US government for not paying for things they ordered.

Sorry the number you are trying to reach has been disconnected.
- They would just send back a shit emoji
jod I hope the shitty military bs has DRM that prevents it from functioning on non payment.
- I hate to inform you, but US corporations don't do that shit to other corporations/ governments. Just look at TVs. All your consumer grade TVs have had smart/LLM "features" shoved into them. They don't do that on the commercial lines though. Commercial TVs are still "dumb." Same for computers, cars, and pretty much everything that they can shove electronics in.
- It's not just suppliers. If you piss off Constellis (remember Blackwater?) and deny it legal remedies, they might be of a mind to do something to Elon as extra-legal as some of the stuff they have done for the US military as a PMC. These companies are used to getting their hands dirty and getting away with it. Not the sorts of people I'd be illegally denying their payments...

The US isnt good for their money. Creditors should demand their debts or threaten legal consequences in the form of international sanctions

US owns most of its own debt.

Contractors handle Medicare.

Contractors run our military
- Contractors run Homeland Security as well. You know, the people running the deportations. And they sure as shit won't do that crap for free.
- Contractors probably have a hand in building your roads, supplying and maintaining your schools (and hospitals?), your plumbing, rail, air transit, power….Ive run out of steam. How is this a good thing? It’s terrifying.
- Contractors build our nukes and keep them functioning
- Eh, to an extent. It's going to be fun watching the military discover just how much of base services was contracting. But they'll just order privates to do a half ass job and keep rolling. The big problems are the cargo and airline contracts. The Air Force and Navy are about to be very busy with stuff they didn't want to handle.

Could have used the thumbnail with his famous salute

GLEICHSCHALTUNG

I wonder at what point people are going to use force to stop this coup, at this point everyone is just watching laws and systems being broken and dimantled with no regard.

Is the media in the US that controlled that their people just don't see what is happening?

I wonder at what point people are going to use force to stop this coup
Historically, it should start in about 30 days, or so, internally with rapid succession authoritarianism settling in.
Then, it takes a year or so after the first territorial grab. The first one is called "appeasement" strategy.
After that, then the rest of the world bombs us into desolation.
- then the rest of the world bombs us into desolation.
  Happy to, but you guys have nuclear weapons.

So, time to stop paying federal students loans and income taxes, eh?

Edit: student loans would be more difficult because loan default but the W4 can be adjusted so no income is deducted for Federal taxes. One would just have to be sure to put that money aside in a savings account ~~to pay next year with no current impact in this tax year~~. Looks like there would have to be some quarterly payments or one would otherwise incur penalties. So it'd be a bit tricky to pull off cleanly. Maybe someone better at tax code could figure out a way to just do this quarterly.

Oops that was a paperwork fuck up. I'm sorry IRS, I'll hand over the amount owed from my savings.
And life continues.
The IRS doesn't want to prosecute people, it wants to get paid. A massive tax strike would be very effective because the IRS is getting short staffed under a trump administration. So they might actually take a few years to get to you. This is, of course, contingent on you having that money in savings and being willing to pay them when they show up for it.
This isn't legal advice, I'm not a lawyer, just an old guy who pays attention, if you're going to do this I highly recommend not responding or voting this comment. (It's evidence)

You guys think we're gonna get tax returns this year?

I bet we don't.

And still not a peep from anyone in position to stop it

Lmfaooooo I just turned down a contractor position at NASA Ames. Applied for a full time position, went through interviews and even a facility tour, just to be offered part time temp to hire. Get fucked lmaooo

I bet a ton of them were pro-trump, MIC-type leeches.

I hope that Lutheran Charity is filled with MAGAts in a red run dump.