Reminder...

I'm cool with that, but folks should also remember this:

yeah I'm forever voting blue no matter who. The republican candidate will always be a fascist. It will never end with Trump. It's going to be fascist vs not fascist blue vote and I will eat whatever shit the blue vote shits out. More cops? I'm all for it, not a fascist dictator. Support Israel? Fine with me, not a fascist dictator. It sucks but that's just America now for the next thousand or so years, fascism or something else. Better hope the something else isn't closer to fascism than before or else you're fucked.
- If the Dems keep winning the Republicans will have to slide left. It happened in the UK with Labour (unfortunately in the opposite direction).
  When that happens, and Trump is not literally attempting to end democracy using project 2025, the plan of strong-arming the dem candidate into being more left is plenty feasible, and the risks are less dire.
- You acknowledge that you're voting for a slightly slower descent into fascism but that you'll continue to do so?
Consider that endorsing an awful candidate in Biden will help get Trump elected.
- How the hell did you come to that idiotic conclusion?

All you liberals have brain worms.
- Says the person who doesn't understand how the US election system works.
- It's unfortunately a bipartisan system with the shitty electoral system that needs reformation. It's barely a democracy, but there is a clear option out of the two, and for now, ensuring Trump is not president again is a step in a better direction.
Wrong. Vote RFK.
🤢 I'd rather vote green
- You are not in Europe my friend. Why do Americans not even understand their own voting system.
- Unfortunately, that would effectively be a vote for Trump.
- Why drive to a polling location to throw your vote away then?
- I think in my country that's called "Stemmespild"
  which basically means wasted-vote.
  if a political party wants to enter the parliament, they gotta get at least 2% of the votes. so if you vote for one of the very unpopular parties and they only get ~1.5% you've effectively wasted your vote completely (This is how it works in my country - of course things are different in the US)
- lol, you're so free in the freedom land that you taking an un-awful option from the trainwreck gets you hate from the cult on both sides of the mainstream political parties.
  Good on you for having a conscience.
  Muricah!!!
- I don't like the green party, they basically go away except for a publicity campaign once every 4 years.
  PSL is constantly putting in work and has been at nearly every student protest.

as long as you still vote for biden. hold your nose if you must. i know i will be...

That’s how I was voting for Hillary, and I almost actually vomited, for all the good that did me.
- if more had also done that, we wouldn't be here now
It sucks but yeah. I'll be holding my nose this election even though Biden has no chance in my state.

Nother reminder: not voting for biden isvoting for trump regardless if you support either of them

Another genocide supporter. Got it.
Well I'm not voting for Trump so I guess, by your logic, that means I'm voting for Biden. ¯(ツ)_/¯
- Asserting this is obtusely ignoring the context that conservative voters have no qualms about voting for someone grossly immoral.
  There aren't conservatives out there saying "Yeah well I was gonna vote for Trump but he supports genociding Palestinians".
  The fact that conservatives don't have this problem and everyone else does means that, yes, you are enabling Trump by not voting Biden. The "logic" necessarily does not work the other way around, even if you say it like some sort of clever gotcha with a complex emoji.
- Trump is leading the polls.
  so if you currently think "im not gonna vote", then you're giving trump a head start
  A majority of the non-voters are more likely to vote for the democrats. thats also why the republicans are making it as difficult as possible to vote. coz they know, the more who vote, the less likely they are at winning
- Were you predisposed to vote for Trump? Then yes.
- We can't get through to these idiots. They are the fools that use literally to mean figuratively.

Not voting for Biden is the same thing as voting for Trump.

Voting for Biden doesn't mean supporting him. It means preventing Trump from becoming president.

The vote I cast in 2020 was against trump and not for Biden. I feel pretty good about that decision considering what happened afterwards. I'll vote against Trump again as many times as it takes.
- You mean you threw your ballot in the trash?
I never liked Biden since the Obama years and I now hate him quite a bit. Sadly voting for him at this point is simply necessary, because if I am not in a good enough state to survive then I cannot support the Palestinians nor Ukrainians.
- I don't get this attitude. Obama was literally against gay marriage. Biden's policies have been so much more progressive than Obama's and yet nobody I know likes him more. I'm not a "fan" of Biden but that's because it's weird and creepy to be a "fan" of government officials. He does a lot I don't like but if you literally hate Biden I don't forsee any president ever meeting your criteria.
This precise sentiment has gotten me told off a few times now. Usually with someone yelling the word "Genocide" over and over so I can't get a word in. People are so fucking dumb it's actually unbelievable.
Whatever my frustration, I just want us all to work together even after we get Biden a second term. The only reason, ONLY REASON, the GOP have their power is honestly because we can't stop slap fighting long enough to plant a foot in their asses. This would also work for the Democrats. We do have two feet. Whatever our perspectives and opinions, there is a single neigh universal truth we can all accept:
This life sure could be a lot better.
- This precise sentiment has gotten me told off a few times now.
  This precise sentiment is based on the assumption that disliking Biden means not voting for him anyway.
- The people yelling genocide over and over have an agenda, not an opinion.
- Putlers troll farms are maximally amplifying the Gaza tragedy in order to divide the west. The tragedy that his Iranian friends probably started for him.
Exactly. This is what I cannot understand from all these "true hyper-leftist" people. You do realize that the future of the USA is at stake here, and that our system is fundamentally rigged to not allow any real alternative as a choice, right? Your brain-dead "BIDEN BAD VOTE THIRD PARTY" is just going to enable Trump and then you'll never be able to vote for anyone ever again as you are forced to participate in alt-right Trump rallies every single day and post on the Trumpernet about how much you love Trump. This isn't much of an exaggeration -- this where they want to go if Trump wins.
You're not supporting Biden. This isn't how our vote works. You're voting for the person less likely to fundamentally fuck our country up. And in case you still don't quite understand who this is, that is Biden.
- The largest current of leftists aren't saying you cannot vote for Biden, and that you should vote third party, but that ultimately change comes from outside the electoral system.
- I'm not American dawg. I hate biden as much as I want. Let me hate.
- This is ignorant fear mongering. If thats the way the system works as you say? Then its our duty as citizens to destroy the system entirely. If thats America then this is not a democracy and its certainly not a democracy worthy of being preserved. IF that is the system you claim Joe biden stands to preserve? Then we SHOULD let trump come in and tear the whole thing down.
  I think trump is a fundamentally morally detestable character. Butt iv lived thru 1 trump presidency. Hes backwards, hes an ass. Hes not a good leader. But hes not the end of everything as we know it. And I'm not giving more power to a corrupt party of beaurocrats who continue to lie to my fucking face while selling me out to corporate interests behind my back and completely hollowing out our countries economic capability all the while refusing to make good on any of their promises and funneling all my tax money to foreign wars while we bleed for healthcare. Fuck this countries "democracy" the fact you even believe we live in a democracy is hilarious. Congress has a 14% approval rating. Our representatives do not represent the will of the america people. They represent the will of their largest financial donors.
By that logic, not voting for Trump is the same as voting for Biden.
- Your point? If you have conservative values, then not supporting Trump does indeed help Biden to win.
- Nope, because, and this will shock you, they are not the same
The meme does not mention voting. Why do centrists always make the leap from "dislike Biden" to "not vote" or "vote third party"?
- Did you just call me a centrist? That's hurtful.
Not voting doesn't mean you support Trump.
Oh look aren't declarative statements fun! Let's do the color of the sky next!
- Not voting doesn’t mean you support Trump.
  You're saying that if you did vote, it would be for Trump? Because that's the only case in which not voting wouldn't help Trump.
Voting for Biden means supporting Biden.
Biden is poised to heavily lose already in almost all polls. The faster people realize this and pick a different candidate the better.
- You have chosen…brain worm.
- Might as well throw your vote in the trash. Your little protest won't be heard by anyone who matters.
Do you understand that words have meaning? You are using words but at making zero sense.
- it seems quite straightforward really. What are you having issues making sense?

Sure, but if you can and don’t vote for Biden it means you’re at least ok with Trump.

No, it means I'm not ok with genocide but you are.
- You have two options:
  Ok with genocide. Otherwise relatively progressive. Has passed major important legislation.
  Ok with genocide. Wants to be a dictator. Appointed half of the Supreme Court majority that took away women’s right to abortion. Will probably strip more rights if elected. Cut taxes on the wealthy and will probably do it again.
  You can throw away your vote, but come inauguration, you will have a president who is ok with genocide.
- If you're not ok with genocide you should vote against Donald "just nuke them" Trump.

I'm not going to tell anybody what to do or who to vote for but one of two things are very likely to happen at the end of this election:

Biden is re-elected. We continue with the status quo. We have a chance to make small incremental steps toward a better future.
Trump is elected. Two Supreme Court justices retire and Trump appoints two more. At that point he will have appointed FIVE of NINE Supreme Court justices. We have already seen what they're willing to do. Imagine what they will do in the literal decades to come.

Choose what you want to do, but take responsibility for your choice. Vote in your local elections. Big changes can happen from the ground up.

It's the federal judge appointments that matter and almost nothing else. Most of what he does can be undone except for that.. It would cause a generation of damage.
"But take responsibility for your choices"strikes me as hilarious. Voting is not public. In a democracy with private polling,hardly anybody takes responsibility for their choices. Actually, zero percent. That is why the elected president is never popular for like the first year in office. Wouldn't it be lovely if people assumed their responsibility for making choices, though? I would be on speaking terms with so many people from my past if they actually learned from their own stupidity.
You won't get big changes voting for Biden or Trump. Just more of the same.
- I'd say the changes from voting for Trump are pretty big.
- Pretty big changes have resulted from the previous Trump presidency. Any reason why you think this one will be ineffectual?
- Sorry, you will get big changes voting for Trump. becasue too much is already in place to make those types of changes happen. I dont agree with these changes, but to say they are the "same" is a dangerous opinion.
  The person at the top is needed to green light policy.. those lower down present such policy.. While this can seem boring it is important, since while by definition the president will be at the center of their party. If the party you vote for is most interested in vetoing everything of the other party.. even if they agree with the law in general, there is no progress.
  Of course you must do more than just vote for the least bad president to make the change happen.. However if you can't at least do that you own the results os the OP said.
- Are you familiar with Project 2025?
- Roe v Wade being overturned was not "more of the same"
- The system protects itself. There is no path for a third party straight to the top. Split the vote sufficiently and the House decides.

Criticizing our leaders is one of the core principals of democracy.

Voting is also a core principal. So please stop encouraging non-participation.

How is the post encouraging anything
- You clearly haven't seen any of the replies from OP in the comments.
  A large part of Lemmy including OP encourage political protest of the Democrats shortcomings by not voting.
- It's not, it's discouraging voting for the guy that counters the "boof bleach" incest loving fell who "only will be a dictator for a day". You know, the unified Reich vibe that you totally are against lmao.
Then, why isn’t voting compulsory?
- You misunderstand me, you should be allowed not to vote but encouraging it as a form of protest is misguided.

I voted for Gary Johnson because Hillary sounded awful in 2016 and I 1000x regret it. Fuck this system for making me choose between bad and worse, but yes obviously I have to choose bad over worse.

Fuck this system for making me choose between bad and worse
Don't make me defend the US voting system but that is not how it works. Primaries exist and that's where voters make the case for a specific person. The large, general, national elections are for forming coalitions and compromising. This is what we do to decide who gets power instead of physically fighting. There will never, ever be a time when a single candidate is the ideal choice for a majority of Americans. Compromise is a core tenant of democracy and by definition it means nobody gets everything they want.
And while we're on the topic, 99% of leftists understand this. Anyone telling you "voting doesn't matter" or that "both candidates are the same" is just trying to reverse the progress that's already been made.
- Most of what you said is spot on but you originally quoted about choosing between bad and worse.
  I get what you're saying about the primary system, but even that is broken. Incumbents are almost never primaried. Typically the party will not allow it. There also needs to be consideration of what primarying an incumbent could mean. It's unlikely any of the challengers would win and in the process they would burn through campaign money and highlight weaknesses in the winner's record and character that could be used by the opposing party.
  We do have a primary, but it may not always give the best candidate. If argue only a portion of people who vote in a general even vote in the primary.
- Primaries exist
  Unless your state votes for a progressive in the previous presidential primary, like New Hampshire did.
- It doesn’t lead us to the same place but slower, at least not everywhere. One party has rolled back abortion protections, equal rights protections, bans books, and a host of other regressive policies. Democrats didn’t do that. Democrats might keep status quo, but the Republican agenda is literally to move us backwards to a worse place (though if they wanna move us back to when the highest marginal tax rate was 90% I could be onboard with that part at least).
- There is action happening, and there is hope
  And there are some pretty cool things happening under the surface
  I see it as damage control while these grassroots attempts at major system changes take hold. We're holding off the assault while we wait for the calvary to come, but they are coming. We just have to not blow their chance.
- Or what you can do is what you're supposed to do: work from the ground up. Presidential vote is not the place to drastically change things. As long as we have fptp, the vote for president is always going to have to be a strategic "vote for the candidate that sucks less."
  Face the facts, if everything falls apart you're not going to end up on top of you're on the bottom now. It's just going to be even more shitty for you, and you'll then end up in another shitty system.
  The idea is to implement the change locally and work up. That takes time and effort tho. If you want the system to work better, vote strategically federally and then work locally to get the people you want elected.
so you said hmmm these two candidates are terrible who can i find that is even worse?
- Kenneth Copeland
Hillary won the popular vote in 2016 by a nearly 3 million vote margin, I don't think you need to feel any regret over your one vote going to someone else you actually wanted to vote for.
Also, even if she'd lost the popular vote too, it ain't the voters fault that the DNC keeps deliberately sabotaging the good candidates in their primaries to give us turds.
- I appreciate the sentiment but I think my regret is more tied to the fact that I very much fell for the white supremacist men’s rights activism and homophobic rhetoric of the time, and me voting for Gary Johnson over Hillary feels like a symptom of that fact as well, and I deeply regret falling for that bullshit.
- Like it or not, Clinton destroyed sanders. The DNC definitely showed a bias for her, but by no stretch of the imagination was he sabotaged. This narrative is the same BS that trump supporters spew that the media was unfair to trump which is part of the reason he lost.
  The reality is that sanders just doesn't (unfortunately) represent the average Democrat. People like Clinton and Biden do.

Most are referring to the way our current electoral system works. Voting 3rd party helps the Republicans even if its not intentional.

Yup, and the only way out of that is Ranked Choice Voting.
Go volunteer for your local RCV group, California's is here: https://www.calrcv.org/
- Obligatory: "Ranked Choice" is a specific use of ranked ballots. It's subpar. It beats what we're doing now, but anything beats what we're doing now.
  What you want is a Condorcet method like Ranked Pairs, where the winner is whoever beats everyone else. RCV just picks whoever can scrounge together 50% first. RCV would not elect a candidate who is literally everyone's second choice. Ranked Pairs would.
  The simple alternative is Approval Voting, where you let people check all the names they like. It matches Condorcet results... somehow. There is no good reason we're not using it everywhere.
This is absurd. Take a look at the polls. There is only one 3rd-party candidate with double digit percentages. Do you really think JFK is taking more votes from Biden than Trump?
- Taking the risk because you think you know something you can't know is what's absurd
- Maybe. A lot of folks only know him for his good environmental stance and see him as the rightful Democrat candidate.
  They don't see his antivax bullshit and leaky brain from WiFi.
- A different way to think about it - most of the intended audience on Lemmy, and especially in this community, would've voted democrat instead of republican. So from the frame of reference of this post, most folks here claiming to vote third party did in fact have their vote "taken" from Biden.

Unfortunately, the US political system does not have a feature to "dislike" all the candidates. Not without a major, probably bloody, revolution, anyway. Your choice is to support and pick one candidate, or let everyone else pick the candidate for you.

I'm ready for the third option tbh
You can always write in your own candidate. Not that it's likely to sway the vote in any significant way, but at least it might help you feel better about your choice.

Liberal democracy has to win every election, fascism only has to win one. Good job if you win in 2024, now do it again every 4 years

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
- Good gets lazy. It has too much hope in others also being good.
We have been doing it for over 200 years now though
- Ehhhh, things are looking a little dicey...

Ok but what no leftie has yet explained is who has asked them to like Biden? Probably nobody who votes for Biden last time or this time around thinks he’s “teh awesome”, we’re simply grown ups who are able to tell which is the least bad option. Honestly lefties (if they aren’t just groipers posing as lefties) who think it’s a hot take to say Biden isn’t the optimal person to be President are all suffering from Captain Obvious syndrome while thinking they’re the cleverest people ever. It’s cringe.

Ok but what no leftie has yet explained is who has asked them to like Biden?
Criticism of Biden on this platform is reliably interpreted as support for Trump.
- That’s how it is in a highly polarised country where every vote is needed to avoid the end of democracy and possibly domestic genocide on POC and immigrants.

Critiques are necessary. We don’t owe electors loyalty. They owe us representation.
With that being said, when it comes to voting, inaction is action.
- You owe it to the country to not hand our government over to fascism. Voting for the immediate alternative isn't a blood pact.
- Fuck your analogy.
  One of two people is going to be in charge of the country seven months from now. You can have the boring liberal with an awful allegiance to a questionable ally run by a power-hungry bastard... or you can have our very own power-hungry bastard, who is also going to give the aforementioned bastard everything he wants.
  Don't choose more evil.

Yeah, but.... Oftentimes criticizing Biden helps trump. I'd rather not even risk it at this point.

Can we spend more energy celebrating that trump is NOT the president and how bad it would be if he comes back?

Criticizing Biden is totally fine. It's the pressure from these posters to not vote for Biden out of principle that's the problem.
Biden is flubbing the Gaza situation hard but he's still (unfortunately) our only chance to keep Trump out of office.
This post should really say "Just because we dislike Biden doesn't mean we shouldn't vote for him"
- Telling the DNC that you and most people will vote for him unconditionally is sabotaging his chances; the dems need to understand they cannot win if they continue the path they're on, and telling them otherwise is counterproductive.
  Silencing criticism of millions isn't gonna win an election. Doing the things the people whose votes you need are telling you to do will.
- Gaza situation
  Sorry, call it how it is, the Palestinian genocide

A group holds a vote to either cross a bridge to side A or stay on side B. Staying on side A means you won't have much food. Going to side B means you still won't have much food, but also most of the food is poisonous.

Part of the group says "I don't want to starve, I refuse to vote in a way that accepts malnourishment as a solution!" Group C also opposes eating poisonous food. This partial group votes to try and find a better source of food (option C).

48% of people vote A. 49% of people vote B. 3% of people vote C.

Surprise, surprise, Group C had 0 impact on the starving situation AND helped facilitate the eating of poisonous food.

Fuck Biden, and FUCK Trump. But if you think voting for a leftist party or abstaining from voting will change anything in a system entirely designed around having only two candidates, you are just as okay with Trump as you are with Biden. At the very least, you are saying that they are equally as bad, showing that you clearly don't understand the dynamic.

Then there are those of us in Group D, who said 30 years ago that this exact thing would happen if we didn't do the hard work of developing an agricultural system. Now Group A blames us instead of Group B, and it's really too late anyway, the food will run out on either side of the bridge.
- I wasn't able to speak 30 years ago. 10 years ago, I was warning people about how AI was going to pose a problem unless we restructured society so automation benefited everyone. Almost 20 years ago I realized private insurance was a scam. Guess what? None of that shit matters. Playing the blame game won't help anyone fix it, but voting can buy us time.
What a shit parable.
- Well you are in a shitty situation.

'Dislike' and 'support' are immaterial. Votes are all that matter. Sorry in reality no one cares about your super nuanced political position but if you're not voting for Biden in 2024 you're either useless or an actively opposing my civil and human rights.

Calling people useless is a great way to get them to vote for your candidate lol
- Well, you are useless if you can't manage to do the one thing to prevent America from becoming an authoritarian state. But go ahead and keep complaining about how mean people are to you.
- Anyone that needs me to 'get them to vote' for Biden in 2024 is already a lost cause. I'm just talking about reality. Sorry if that triggers you, but not really though.
"Super nuanced political opinions" such as being against an active genocide lol.
- So you think Trump would oppose the genocide?
- Yep- sorry nobody cares what you think deep down inside, snowflake. Only matters how you vote. Biden or Trump- plus all the downballot stuff you don't care enough to think about. Pitch a hissy fit if you want but that's your reality.
Or I dont wanna vote for someone who committed genocide.
- Right on - don't vote. I'll decide if or which genocide(s) your taxes pay for. Just keep paying taxes and not voting- thanks.
- Then don't pay taxes anymore if you actually mean it.
- Or I dont wanna vote for someone who committed genocide.
  It's funny and sad to me how little thought seems to be put into comments like this. It's like you're taking this position to be cool and fit in. It's more of a personal branding exercise than a principled position.

Like a real president should, Biden does a lot of things I agree with and some I don’t. I thought Obama was one of the greatest presidents in my lifetime but even he did things I didn’t completely agree with. Would I’d rather have someone like Bernie or AOC in the Oval Office? Absolutely (well except he’s to old and she’s to young). Could we do better than Biden? Also absolutely. What I’d love to see is national ranked choice voting and more like 5-6 candidates. I think this would be better for everyone. But Trump is an existential crisis waiting to happen. I’m not sure this country can withstand another Trump presidency. Frankly I’m not sure my health can either. I literally noticed a significant drop in my BP when Trump left.

So yeah, you can be critical of Biden and not a Trump supporter. Frankly if you’re not a little critical of any president regardless of party, you’re not in a party, you’re in a cult.

Speaking of a different BP, I don't think that humanity could survive another Trump presidency. That BP being British Petroleum.
Shitty segway I know.
But part of Project 2025 is to roll back climate regulations, invest solely into fossil fuels, and hamstring the EPA. So, you know, as much as we complain that not enough is being done...that's the alternative.
- Biden should maybe, talk about that.

Leftists 🤝 Tankies
Hating Biden

Tankies 🤝 Centrists
Doing nothing to oppose Trump

How hard is this to understand?

Tankies love Biden. Biden is openly complicit in a massive Genocide and openly denies it. It doesn't tet more tankie than that.
Current Democrat voters are the biggest tankies in our lifetime.
- The logic is sound, it doesn’t get more authoritarian than a genocide.

Not voting for Biden is supporting Trump. Not voting is supporting Trump.

This is the simple reality of the situation. Memes don't make a difference in vote totals even if they make you feel special about being the hero you think you are.

The meme didn't mention either. Just disliking Biden.
- Sounds like you don't understand international politics. NATO is fucked if Trump gets in. If you're stupid, don't open your mouth
- what. yes, the world very much cares. we're talking about the USA here; everything that happens there affects us all. also is your solution to imperialistic fascism not participating in the elections? lol

Swap Biden for Starmer and Trump for Sunak 🙂‍↕️

Well, if the Tories get back in then deporting people to Rwanda and expansion of oil drilling in the north sea will be guaranteed.
Voting for lab, there is a chance that these will be cancelled.
Tories have had decades in charge, and shit is fucked.
Labour are more progressive - not enough for my taste, but better than constant austerity
- I stand by what I said
  Just because we dislike Starmer doesn't mean we support Sunak.

Wait, I thought the "point of a system is what it does"..

If your choices lead to a trump presidency I don't see how your intent matters at all 🤷

If your choices lead to a trump presidency I don’t see how your intent matters at all
Is this directed at Merrick Garland?
- If he's here spouting idiotic concepts driven by ideals that don't mesh with reality; yes.
Same can be said for "genocide is fun" Biden.
- Interesting quotation marks, when did he say this?
  I mistakenly attributed that quote to uyghur-terminator xi, or blackmail-is-my-only-ally putin.

The timing maybe? I've been saying Biden is the worst example of a democrat since the Obama days, and got downvoted about pointing out his bullshit. His contribution to the drug war alone is atrocious. But I kept getting down voted for saying it. Suddenly now it's election time, second go round, and here comes everyone jumping on Biden. Seems sus.

We have lived under presidencies of both Biden and Trump.
It isn't sus to realize one is better than the other, dude
- Huh? That's what I'm saying, Biden is a saint compared to Trump. It's just sus that right now, at election time 2024 is when it's suddenly a big deal. It only benefits Trump
Thing is, the absolutely worst things that he's done throughout his career have been pretty mainstream at the time. Like that omnibus crime bill? That was overwhelmingly supported, with only very, very limited Democratic opposition in very limited areas. (And a lot of black communities still support 'tough on crime' approaches because they look at the short term rather than the long.)
Even the support of Israel is pretty middle-of-the-road. Most Dems still support Israel, even while being appalled at the indiscriminate nature of Israel's violence in Gaza

Maybe if our news ever reported on him like that, we wouldn’t be back here again.
- People that watch the news favor Biden by 10pts. It's people that get their info from social media and YouTube that favor Trump overwhelmingly.
  The algorithm promotes attention seeking behavior and Trump is the god king of attention seeking.
No, it means we'll vote for someone else.
- That's the same as not voting.

Not voting for either is a statement that they are equal. That you wouldn’t prefer one over the other.

Could just also mean you live in a non swing state and want to give a 3rd party a shot at getting over 5% of the vote so they can get federal funding and be a more serious option in the next election. 🙂
- Yeah no.
  You don't know whose gonna show up and whose gonna stay home. Plenty of states were lost in 2016 just out of apathy. Enough states were lost in 2000 because Nader cared more about the environment.
  Here's the thing. Suppose a progressive third-party candidate actually gets 5% of a popular vote. Well, there's only 100% to go around. So, a progressive third-party candidate would be likely be taking from the more-left first-party candidate.
  So let's look at 2020. Biden had 51.3% of the popular vote, Trump had 46.9. So take 5 from Biden and that puts him at...46.3.
  That's fine...after all we learned that the electoral college is all that really matters, right? Except two out of the last three presidential elections that Republicans won, they lost the popular vote, but because the EC favors their states, the won the election.
  It. Is. Not. Worth. The. Risk.
  The only way that it works (at least under FPTP rules) is if a comfortable majority of the country is already leaning in the direction of your third party, enough so that even with the 5%, the more closely aligned party still wins by a comfortable margin. We are not in such a position. Voting for a third party in the current conditions in the hope that they'll get to that magical 5 is, most certainly, shooting yourself in the foot.
  Honestly the more you think about it, the more it seems like that 5% number is spoiler-candidate bait for the unaligned party to use at their advantage, to make voters feel like they are doing a good and noble thing, when they really are just cutting off their nose to spite their face.
- Do it in the primary.. where the current system expects it.. but.. there is only 1 or 2 primary candidates in the current style winner takes all scenario we have.. and ID say fight for instant runoff elections, but vote for those with a chance until then.. Even if you think your state is safe..
- next election
  Woosh

what a crazy era to live in.

This post is kinda fucking depressing.

The glory of a two parties system. The liberals even call this democracy.

I feel like a lot of the comments are kind of proving the point. If we say we don't like Biden, then suddenly everyone assumes we aren't voting and therfore are helping Trump. In reality, the meme literally says nothing about voting. That's everyone else jumping to that conclusion.

"I'm just reminding everyone!"

Don't worry. We all know how elections work.

"I don't care if you don't like him! I care about votes!"

Cool. Then let me not like him.

I don't 'like' Biden but I am voting for him. I've never 'liked' any politicians I've voted for- they're just the closest thing available to the tool I want to represent my interests in government.
You don't have to tell me you're voting for Biden but your 'not liking' him is irrelevant to me, because I do too. So if that's all you're talking about I can't help but assume you're focusing on irrelevant issues and ignoring the most important one right now- voting in 2024.
If you want to talk about specific policy goals, executive actions, legislative initiatives- I'd be interested. But if your focus is just abstract sentiments about a single politician that you only have one other, existentially shitty option for- you should expect to be dismissed by pragmatists that are focused on election outcomes.
If you ever find yourself 'liking' a politician, take a big step back. They're like lawyers- you want the most effective one you can get to represent your interests- but don't pretend they're not professional snakes that will bite you the second your interests are no longer aligned. In politics the only means you have to keep those interests aligned is voting (unless you're in the donor class but I'm assuming no one on Lemmy is).

To everyone in this thread, whoever you are or are not voting for: what is your plan if Trump wins? I think everyone agrees that it is pretty much 50/50 on him winning. What do you plan to do about the coming total fascist hellscape? Do you have plans and means to emigrate? Are you buying guns and ammo? Are you just gonna go along to get along?

Yeah I remember being 12 and thinking I understood everything too

https://youtu.be/rTymqnpfPWo

I dunno I'm just gonna leave this here I guess

Also remember that we don't actually vote for the president. That's the job of the electoral college. They just want to see if we all guessed it right.

Hey guess who is the next person to be the president? C'mon tell us! I'm going to guess Biden....I'm going to guess Trump! You are both wrong! The next president is this Gala Apple 🍎 with a worm inside!

Thanks electoral college! Without you. How could we ever know who You want to rule over us all like a king?

From the government:
https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/electors
If the electors vote for President, why should I vote in the general election?
During the general election your vote helps determine your State’s electors. When you vote for a Presidential candidate, you aren’t actually voting for President. You are telling your State which candidate you want your State to vote for at the meeting of electors. The States use these general election results (also known as the popular vote) to appoint their electors. The winning candidate’s State political party selects the individuals who will be electors.
So let me rephrase, you don't vote for president. You merely provide a suggestion like an 8ball. The government picks electors (not you). They get to vote. Again, not you. So if you forgot to vote, don't worry, it's going to happen anyway. Like if they were going to choose Edgar Allen Poe, it doesn't matter what you want, they will vote for a dead person before they care about your vote.

Genocide should not be a bipartisan issue. Genocide being unelectable even in just one party is good. If your starting position is "yes, both candidates will commit genocide" you should continue with discussion about direct action tactics. Otherwise I'll doubt that you actually think Biden is committing genocide.

Its literally impossible for democrats to not spread disinformation about leftists by claiming anyone who doesn't vote Biden is actively advocating for not voting. Hell I see a bunch of it in this comment section.

Democrats will claim they aren't fascist but they can't help but check off all the bullet points.

Please don't fedpost, they actually have people who investigate this shit.
All-talk.ml
- That’s what the 2nd amendment is for my boy.

Even though I'm a Libertarian in the strictest sense I find this both true and quite funny. DJT is just as bad or worse than Biden. DJT himself has stated that he went to St. James island [aka orgy island] TWICE. It's just like in sinning against GOD...the first look isn't sinning, but when you look the 2nd time then it's a sin. DJT is similar to a DON in a mafia, but he is just the DON of the deep state. The only way to stop Trump is to declare the 2020 election in his favor, HOWEVER since he voluntarily left the oath of office for the Biden admin DJT cannot be legally elected a 3rd term. He would be disqualified.

The thing the libs/"moderates"/"centrists" don't seem to understand is that this vote has long been stollen from leftists by the DNC when they decided not to run a Democratic Primary.

So for lefties it's a "choose between Charles Mason and Jack The Ripper" vote: a false choice.

The only real choice for lefties in this vote is explained by Game Theory:

Basically what you have here is a situation with entity A and entity B, that happens in rounds. Entity A chooses how to share something between A and B get, entity B decides to "accept" - in which case they both get their shares as decided by A - or "reject" in which case none of them gets anything.
In simplified terms, Entity A is the DNC, Entity B are lefties, including those in the Democrat Party, rounds are the elections and what's being approprotioned is how much a presidential candidate represents each side.

What Game Theory tells us in this case, actually backed by scientific experiments carried out with actual humans, is that if Entity A divides things in a very selfish way and Entity B "accepts" rather than choose "reject", i.e. does not punish Entity A for it even at the cost of a small loss for itself, then in the next round Entity A will divide things in a just as bad or worse way for B.

It never happens that Entity A, being one that divides the cake in a very selfish way, becomes less selfish in that division after a round were Entity B chose to "accept" that division. The best you can merelly hope for as Entity B if you keep on "accepting" is that Entity A doesn't become even more selfish in the next round.

Applied to this very specific situation it means that as long as the lefties keep on accepting the choices of the DNC (who are liberals, backed by campaign contributions from very wealthy people) for who the Democrat Presidential Candidate represents the most, then for each subsequent election the choices of the DNC will be worse and worse for the lefties.

If you look at the rounds of this "game" so far - each round being an election - this is exactly what has been happenning: the only time the Democrat candidate is ever a little leftwards from the previous one is after after their votes from the left fall, which is generally when the Democrat Party loses an election.

So the correct choice for anybody on the left who wants a chance to elect a President that is more representative of their views, and that only in a future election (as the present is already lost since the DNC has already made its choice), is to "punish" by not voting (or, even better, voting a third party candidate if they find a suitable one), which does mean the DNC loses its big bet on a guy that pretty much only represents Liberals and even Zionists, even if leftis too will lose whatever tiny bit of "representation" they would get with the not-quite-as-extreme-right presidential candidate chosen by the DNC.

Do not "punish" and instead "accept" (by voting Biden) and the next round of the game (i.e. the next election) will be the same or worse.

This argument implies that Biden is left of Obama. It also ignores the very real risk that by not voting for Biden in this round there will be no fair future rounds to participate in. It also ignores all other elections and chances to influence the party.
Trump is a uniquely different candidate than McCain, Romney, Bush, whoever you want to pick. He tried to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power and there is little reason to think he would not try again if given the chance.
Real life is not so simple as game theory and attempting these simplifications is not as rational as you imply.
Please vote in the coming election for Biden. The consequences of "Punishing" the Dnc are too dire to ignore.
- "The only time that something" is the logical "might something" not the logical "must something"
  Also you weren't like me right smack in the middle of the Finance Industry keenly observing what Obama (amongst others such as Cammeron in Britain and Merkel in Germany) did in the aftermath of the 2008 Crash and how they did it, or were living under a rock when the suppression of Occupy Wall Street happenned, if you think Obama is in any way form of shape leftwing, center-left or even center-right: you need to go way back, before Bill "I repealed the Glass-Steagal Act so that Finance can do whatevere the fuck it wants and thus caused the 2008 Crash" Clinton to find a Democrat with even the mildest touch of merelly center-left thinking.
"We'll not-vote and then they'll give us what they want!" has worked out sooo well in the past. Eight years of W. Four years of The Idiot. Are you happier now, having lived under those disasters? Is the DNC more in-line with what you wanted, compared to Gore and Hillary?
Ie., if the game is rigged against you, the only option is not to play.
- Guillotines are always an option.
Well said thank you
but Trump will end democracy!
- Just say you want a trump presidency lmao

Sadly there are people on lemmy who like Biden and think he can do no wrong

Oh hey look, another thread for me to post in.

I will never vote for Joe Biden again and you can too.

The party for socialism and liberation is an American political party that has a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to israel.

Vote psl this November.

- Not voting for trump and telling people how they can also not vote for trump is a funny thing for a trump lover to do.
- This election is going to go so well

TBH many "leftists" (aka grifters, shills, fash...) do like trump.

So... Not leftists?
I don't think that word means what you think it means.