Helldivers 2 went from one of the most beloved Steam games to one of the most hated pretty quickly

Breaking peoples games after 4 months will do that

Nothing is broken, people are choosing to not abide by the terms they accepted to when the bought the game.
- https://hackertalks.com/comment/3633295
- the virgin EULA worshipper vs the chad consumer rights advocate
- This is the reason I didn't buy the game, but people bought it and now they're angry they're enforcing it?
  You're totally right, except for the people from the countries that don't get PSN. How is it legal to sell them the game in the first place if they can't meet the requirements to play? Scummy move.
- Pointing to the ToS / EULA like we are in a fucking South Park episode, LMAO
- The devs themselves have asked users to review bomb their own game on their discord. Your not standing up for them, your standing for Sony and Sony alone.
- It's not in the EULAs pertaining to this game, and Sony changed their PC Games FAQ on May 3rd after the announcement that PSN would be required, meaning the FAQ people read when they bought the game is different from the one Sony is trying to enforce.
  Before:
  After:
- Uhh axktuallay on page treefiddy on the TOS it says you get a downvote
- I did not know we had controversial bots on Lemmy already!
- The Ol' hivemind. I type this will dropping in to kill some bug hives.
- They hated him because he spoke the truth.
  I don't like it either, but I had to make an account on day 1. It's also a requirement for any game hosted on Sony's game servers.

Well, I'm glad I didn't end up buying it last week like I wanted to. I decided to wait another paycheck instead.

Saved me wasting time or money.

Honestly people shit on review-bombing over specific incidents but this is the kind of thing that 100% deserves it.

"Oh no, finding out!" - corporation that fucked around probably
Review bombing is getting people to review something a certain way without them having have experienced the thing.
Basically a small group think their own opinion is so important, they try to convince as many people as possible to vote the same to make it seem more people share their opinion.
These reviews were from players who actually played the game and got affected by the changes. It isn't review bombing, their opinions are valid.
- Plenty of review bombing as the method protests can be valid. It's just a method. It so happens that many of them are stupid, but ultimately that's just how it goes.
- Not really, at least on Wikipedia the page for review bombing and the one listing significant ones make no distinction between actually having played the game/watched the movie or not.

I am curious how this is going to effect the number of active players. I know a lot of people who were trying to get me to play this saying it was here to stay and not a trend like a Lethal Company but I feel like this hurdle might be enough to get them to give up.

I definitely have a low level of tolerance for Russian nesting dolls of accounts and launchers.

I’d be surprised if it really has much of an impact on number of players tbh.
Most people don’t care, Lemmy/Reddit are a vocal minority.
- Vocal minority is the assumption when this sort of collective outrage manifests. This time though, thanks to Steam player count we will actually get some hard numbers and see if that has an effect or not.
- I think said "most people" will care once the game forces them to register for a PSN account.
Well, a number of countries will be forced out, simply because PSN is not available there. Especially the philipinos seem so be quite upset.
PSN is available in 69 countries around the world. (Source: https://www.playstation.com/country-selector/index.html)
right now there are (roughly) 190 independent countries in the world.
The whole of Africa (except for SA; thanks to u/ItzOnza), Egypt and even european countries like Belarus don't have PSN.
The Baltics - states that are part of the european union - are also excluded.
These people can't create accounts.
Ive been waiting to get helldivers until I had a bit of spare cash.
Now I'm not gonna get it.
Just like I don't want 50 different streaming services, I dont want 15 different launchers open just to play a game.
- There's no launcher as far as I know, just a linked account.
I bought the game on release week. I don't play often but when I do it's with friends. After hearing about this incident my plan was to wait a few days or a week to see how it resolves before deciding if I want to refund the game. However, enough of my friends have already refunded the game that, if they don't come back, I likely won't be playing much if at all anyway so I'll probably refund the game this week as well, especially if nothing changes.
I signed into an old PSN account when I first downloaded the game near launch. It is in game. No launcher. I signed in once and forgot about it until right now. Not really a big deal. If your worried about security make some bogus email up and make an account that way. But other than signing in one time it hasn't been a deal. 🤷‍♂️
- Yeah, I used my old PS3 account. I didn't even think twice about it. I'm not sure why people are freaking out about it?
I didn't get the game because it's packed full of all the terrible corporate stuff you see in terrible corporate games. Always Online, Rootkit anticheat, in-game store to purchase items when the game is already expensive. I doubt adding "must give your information to Sony" is going to be the tipping point for anyone who is fine with everything else.
- Why does a fully cooperative game needs an anti-cheat software in the first place. I don't give a fuck about cheaters as long as its not competitive. Deep rock galactic for example works great without all of this bullshit.
- As I said in another comment I think it's more about people having to create another account.
  I also don't know how or if PSN integration is going to impact matchmaking.
- Playing not online is miserable
  Waaaaaaa anti cheat
  The in game store requires zero to actual money and is probably the most fair one to date.
  Game is expensive (it's the standard price?)
  Jesus cry more about something you haven't even done.
This is not a hurdle, its a nuisance at best. It's stupid though.
- I know at least two people who live in countries w/o PSN support and can't play now. This is a hurdle.
- This is on PC and unlike some other ported PS games I don't think there is an option to play offline I imagine a lot of people are going to be creating PSN accounts I'd say that's a hurdle for some people.

Sony has a record of not respecting its workers, users or consumers.

2005 Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal

2011 PlayStation Network hack

2014 Sony Pictures hack

Now they want more userdata and kernel level anticheat. Surely there is no way for this to backfire

You missed some https://firewalltimes.com/sony-data-breach-timeline/
- Yes. Their platform, their security. Their failure to secure their users data is solely their fault. Notice that other platforms don't have this issue. You'd think after the first one, they'd fucking pony up and take security seriously. Sony didn't learn anything.
  If it was just one event, I'd advocate for leniency. But Sony doesn't get that from me.
- The last two were because Sony was storing personal data. This store made them a target.
  Like the personal data they require when you sign up to PSN to play Helldivers 2.
  If they don't collect data, they wouldn't be such a juicy target. So, yes, it is partly their own fault because they took the known risk of storing personal information.
  They played with fire and got burned ... more than once.
  Source: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/privacy-policy/

Deserved. It's just not necessary. Think, why would a multi-billion dollar company want you to sign up for some other service, even if it's free? Because they want your data, and they want to sell it.

If only there was a digital bill of rights that applied to all tech companies that would make the selling of data illegal.
Nah, sounds difficult. let's just ban ticktok for my lobbyist buddy.
Theoretically their community management tools are based on PSN, which does make some sense. This is the official reason for it. Of course they're also hoovering up all your data to sell also. That's the reason that gives them more money, so the real reason.
- I mean, it IS their own game. Let's not be disingenuous, they would be doing the same even if it was Steam data.

Another victory lap for patient gamers.

There is a lifetime of content to consume without taking video games or the internet into account. You are optional.

I just started BioShock Infinite. I am only a few years behind.
- Bioshock Infinite is 11 years old
Patient gaming is great for single player games. Not so much for live service.
- You say that, but it clearly worked here. And, for live service games in general, playing The Waiting Game™ lets you see how bullshit said live service ends up becoming after a awhile.
But if you were impatient and played it on release you could have played it without requiring a PSN account.
- And now they would need to fight for a refund, only some people got it, others are on their 5th try.
I was waiting until some sort of offline mode since I've been burned by The Crew, I don't think it's happening considering how anal they are being about a PSN account.

I remember when it came out people were saying it's anti-cheat was basically malware. Denuvo, I think?

Anyway, it's disappointing because I hear it's a truly great game. But between this and that, I think I'm soured on the idea of playing.

- They'd ban themselves lol
n-protect actually
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NProtect_GameGuard
That's exactly why I purchased the game on ps5 instead of PC. And now I also don't have to worry about this issue.
- Good for you? The post isn't about people like us playing on PlayStation, it's about people like my buddies I play with that thought they were good to go with their steam accounts and are now being railroaded a few months later by having to give their data to PSN, who is notorious for not managing said data well.
  "It's in the ToCs", you might say, which is only highlighting a broader issue where you basically have to wade through pages of legal bullshit to just play a game you bought and not get fucked by the EULA.
- Well that might work, if I had a PS5 laying about.

Data is beautiful.

Weren’t we all discussing enshittification the other day?

More like daily now unfortunately.
I'm not sure how requiring an account in addition to the Steam account is enshittification. Especially given that it was intended to be the case from the start, but they temporarily disabled it due to technical issues.
- That sounds like deliberate deception. That's far shittier than being up front. They should have made a PS account optional. Cyberpunk does this, you don't need an account to launch the game.
- It's completely unnecessary, PlayStation accounts aren't available in many countries which would make the game inaccessible to people who already bought it if it's mandatory, and Sony has averaged a data breach every two years for the past 15 years so people don't want to give them any personal data.
- man I think people can take things too far and act like drama queens sometimes but yeah, forcing another unnecessary account onto people is enshitification

Wow what the fuck has happened?!

They're mandating you have a playstation account to play on PC. That was always in the terms, and on the steam page, but you didn't have to. Until very recently.
And if you don't live in one of the 65 countries where PSN operates, you can go fuck yourself, because your game just stopped working.
- Wow fuck all that
- Can’t you just use an US account though? I don’t mean to say that this isn’t a major issue as it is, but are you really blocked from linking it? I don’t live in the US but I have a us pen account since forever
Sony dropped an announcement requiring PSN accounts, even for PC players with no cross play enabled, presumably because it makes the numbers look better to their shareholders. Apparently it was supposed to be a requirement at launch but the PSN servers were busted and it was preventing people from getting in so they 'temporarily' disabled it.
- Yeah bullshit on the technical issue, they got a whole lot of people playing who now are forced to make that account.
- Something not rally being mentioned is that their monetization system has gotten predictably worse, for example nerfing a weapon in advance of a premium battle pass weapon that coincidentally fills the niche that was just nerfed away.
Capitalism

Look, I got hit with that stupid 2011 data breach PSN had and I still get scam emails with details from that due to the unique stuff I put in my various accounts. I'm not going to try to resurrect my now defunct account or create a new one so they can do more data mining and lose more of my PII, again.

I sure am happy i didnt buy this earlier because of the enforced rootkit.

Kernel Level Anti Cheat... In a co-op game!?
Why they did this is beyond me! 😔
- Oh no! Billy cheated his way to a new cape!! 🙄
  It really is quite silly. There aren't even leaderboards or anything
- It's doubly puzzling, because that component is just disabled on Linux and Steamdeck.
Honestly there were a few reasons I didn't get it, but I'll say the rootkit was a big one.
Yeah, that had me already decided that if I did get it, it would be on ps5 not pc. Though this move will probably make me do that in general for any ps exclusive game they make a pc port of.

Say what you will about the giant bugs and socialist toasters, but they never sold out their own for a percentage.

A Starship Troopers, BSG, and Aliens reference. Nice!

Well deserved imo

i don’t even care about making the account, it’s just a throwaway email and password, but the rug pull for players from other countries isn’t fair at all

This is far too common with games now, all over Steam as well. RDR2 is a great example, the Rockstar launcher and social club is total dogshit!

Fuck RDR2 has a launcher? Maybe I'll just pirate it
- Yeah, even with Steam it will force you to install the Rockstar launcher and create a social club account, very annoying!
The Social Club has been a thing since GTA 4. So, for 15 years?
- And it has been shit since then

no shit a bunch of my friend picked it up last month and were bugging me to buy it and join them. I get paid today and had planned on buying this weekend.

but I ain't got a playstation or PSN account so ima hold off. im not sure all of my friends do either, for that matter. back to modded CP2077 it is!

I’m like an hour in… mod reccos?
- I haven't played with mods myself, but one I'd recommend would be a third-person camera mod, and maybe one that lets you customize vehicles.

It's so random, too. Just... why?! The other way around, sure, after all the PC player base is the big fish. But eh?

Because published by Sony.
- People really should have stopped buying anything Sony back with the original rootkit scandal.
- Which is all the info you need to avoid the game. Sony is a piece of shit
- None of the previous Sony titles that were released on PC required a PSN account.
It was always required, there was an issue and they paused it.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/helldivers-2-will-require-you-to-have-a-psn-account-on-pc.1665633/
- Oh okay. Weird as hell still, but that at least makes some sense. TY!

"Term of service"? Shmerms of shmervice. Fuck all the way off, there's a hundred other games that we can be playing.

Hypetrain game + publisher shenanigans... Pretty sure I've heard this one before.

At least the hype train was built on its merit and not an ad campaign.
- Was it though? It was full steam ahead even in the early days when the servers were overwhelmed in what seemed like a classic case of the dishoom effect.
  Don't get me wrong, it's a fine game, but I think folk got carried away.

Imagine having a golden goose and wanting to make pâté out of it. Sure does make me want to buy Ghost of Tsushima when it comes out, totally.

DOWN WITH SNOY!

It's no accident that many of these games are releasing their anti-features only after millions have purchased them and missed their return window.

EA did the same recently with Kernel anti-cheat in games they haven't serviced in years, games that actively cannibalise their latest titles!

Less players means less server running costs. Helldivers 2 might turn back or end up with this disastrous policy (for consumers) but until we have regulations on this, many companies will see the benefit of rugpulling software.

Supposedly steam is allowing returns no matter the playtime.
- that's good, surprising though because technically it's not their policy

This doesn’t concern me. But holy hell, I’m getting hard Uplay flashbacks.

Can someone explain what is the big deal of creating a Playstation account? I know they've added the requirement retroactively, and I know everyone wants steam to be it's own thing, but this is not really a unique situation.. I have a lot of games across many publishers that have their own useless accounts tied to it. What makes this different?

its past the refund window, PSN only allows 69 countries to make an account, so 66% of the countries in the world are simply not able to make an account at all. Depending on how things shake out, those players will be locked out of hell divers.
If this hadn't been retroactive, then our gaming brothers from i.e. the Philippines would have bought the game, tried to run it, hit the wall, and refunded it... sucks but they wouldn't have lost time or money.... but now... they lose both.
- Ah see, that's the context I needed. Thank you. Outside a refund window or not - if I were in a country that got locked out, steam had better be real gracious with their refunds. That scenario is unacceptable. Strange that PSN restricts themselves geographically.. they absolutely should have thought of that before allowing the game to be sold in those countries.
- This isn’t something they tried to sneak past people, they were upfront about the issues and said there would be a grace period before they implemented the pairing originally planned at launch.
  Edit for source jan it was part of steams requirements
The big deal is that you are now forced to create an account with yet another service and give them analytics about your behavior, for literally no benefit to you.
Even though this is widely accepted, this is just not okay in any case. Not when Ubisoft did it, not now.
- How can they enforce a ban if you don’t link your account?
  They ban your steam id and you just family share it to another free account and do the same thing.
  Get your tinfoil hat off.
This is no different than your other games with useless.one off accounts. That's the problem. They all are a problem. I bought red dead 2 and refunded it as soon as I was required to create a rockstar account. It serves no purpose to me, I don't need it or want it. If we don't push back these useless account things will keep being added.
And retroactive add is a massive problem. They took people's money then screwed them after. It sets the precedent that this is acceptable if people just take it.
What's next? Removing areas and features of games after release for something that you paid for?
It's scummy.
- What's next? Removing areas and features of games after release for something that you paid for?
  Yeah, Destiny 2...
PSN accounts, in particular, are pretty bad. In some places, they require a photo ID in order to make an account, and in many regions of the world, you can't make one at all. Something like 50 of the regions where the game was sold can't make PSN accounts, and using a VPN to make an account or lying about your region is a bannable offense.
It's a valid concern, both from paying for something that you can't even use and a privacy perspective.
Can someone explain what is the big deal of creating a Playstation account?
I see other comments have covered some of the issues, I don't see this one.
April 2011: Hackers Access Personal Data of 77 Million Sony PlayStation Network Users
May 2011: Personal Details on 25 Million Sony Online Entertainment Customers Stolen
June 2011: Sony Pictures Website Hacked, Exposing One Million Accounts
November 2014: Hackers Steal 100 Terabytes of Data from Sony Pictures
August 2017: Hacker Group Accesses Sony Social Media Accounts
September 2023: Sony Investigates Alleged Hack
October 2023: Sony Notifies Employees of Data Breach
Basically Sony's been caught before not securing anything. So people don't want to deal with them. So for this to be retroactively pushed on users months later is a solid concern. To be forced to give Sony more data than is actually required to run the game (as we've proven it isn't needed for months now). Is literally just handing it to the next hackers that access Sony's shit.
- Yeah this is all fair. I don't give anyone or anything personally identifiable information, and wouldn't suggest it. Just fill it out with fakes and move on.
It seems a lot of people did not realize that this was an initial requirement when the game first launched, but it was suspended while they figured out server and stability issues.
- That was never mentioned in a meaningful way on my purchasing platform, or in the game. At no point was I told that I was only temporarirly allowed to play without a PSN account, and that the entire game would be locked down months later unless I created and linked one. Were that the case, I would have refunded on day 1.

I don't think I've ever seen a game on Steam with "Overwhelmingly Negative" reviews before. Usually "Mixed" is already a good indicator to leave your hands off a game.

That's because there's a review count requirement for both the extremely good and the extremely negative level. So you can't buy your own game, review it, and have it be overwhelmingly positive because the only review is positive. Thing is, bad games tend to not get bought by many people, so overwhelmingly negative is rare. So yes, mixed reviews are already damming.

Immediate uninstall; really grateful my copy was a gift so I lost nothing. I'm not setting up another fuckin account for just one fuckin game and I really fuckin wish publishers would KNOCK THAT BULLSHIT OFF

Hopefully soon no one will care about this game and it'll stop clogging up my RSS and Lemmy feeds. 😆

I mean, hopefully Sony reverses course on this decision and we can go back to playing a good game. What you describe is the most likely outcome.
- I want both of your things to be true. What I want most is for them to remove the horrid anti-cheat AND account issues which is never going to happen, so I’ll never be able to play. But that’s okay. I bet it’s super fun, though.

Is this a change that’s coming? We played last night and my wife hasn’t linked a ps account and she has been playing fine.

May 6th for new players and may 30 for existing iirc

Deserved

So I bought the game in PS store. Installed it and went to play just to remember I need to pay for a subscription. Uninstalled and never looked back. I dropped my subscription in December and PS won't give me a reason too return. Maybe I can get GTA 5 for the 20th time for "free."

Some countries like Ukraine are told that they need a console to make an account, you can't make this shit up lmao

Mainly micro transactions. Though its not as bad as other games i don't agree with them being in games that cost money. If they are going to be added i think the game should be free. Its mainly a critique of online gaming in its current state.

The gameplay was not my kind of game but that's more of a personal preference than it being a bad game. I watched a ton of gameplay and had friends stream it to me and it looked very dull. He came across a lot of bugs while playing too such as clipping through the map forcing him to restart the entire mission.

Worth pointing out that you can find in game premium currency
- I know but id prefer it not being there to begin with as its a slippery slope. Its much more fun to earn loot than grind for coins or pay for them to get the skin.
The micro-transactions barely exist and was easy be bought with premium currency found in the game. There are paid battle passes but none of the items within give you much of an edge over anyone else, and those battle passes also award premium currency which can be used to buy the next battle pass. They’re not timed, either. You can buy one battle pass and sit in it for a year before completing it.
As far as MTX go, they’re the most inoffensive I’ve ever seen in a game.
- I understand. I just prefer them to not be there at all. Ill only buy extra in a game if its in the form of a dlc that adds great content for example the following dlc for dying light or liberty city stories for GTA 4. Buying weapons and cosmetic feels cringe to me
- These are the least offensive micro transactions I've seen in a game lol. And people calling a $40 game expensive is funny.

I'm bummed I missed my window to return it through steam. I downloaded it, gave it a couple tries and just couldn't figure out what I was supposed to be doing or when the fun was supposed to start. I couldn't figure out how to play with other people or what guns I was supposed to use against whatever enemy. None of it made sense and seemed like it was all just hype with no substance. It's still in my library, but I don't think it'll ever get a reinstall. I wish I could just gift it to someone else

Have you tried watching any videos that explain how to play or talking to anyone in your squad when you play online? It's a game meant to be played as co-op, not really solo.
Assuming you aren't trolling... If you want to try again, how to play with others is really simple. In the world map, you can press "R" to quick play and it will put you in a mission with a couple people in it. You can also throw a SOS during the mission (idk if it works if you set matchmaking to friends only in settings, try making it public).
- I watched a few gameplay videos, but nothing educational. I was just looking for a demo to see what it played like and figured the game would guide me the rest of the way. I'm being completely honest, I never figured out how to play with anyone else. I went to the main room, picked my mission, shot down by myself and died repeatedly. I never thought to try the quick play option. I promise I'm not trolling or trying to yuck anyone else's yum, I just don't think I'm made for the game or the game is made for me.
  I definitely appreciate the info you gave me. If I ever do decide to give it another shot, I'll keep that information in mind, but I don't think that'll be happening anytime soon. I've got plenty of other games in my library to keep me busy without this weird learning curve

Did anyone actually have to log in? I played yesterday without having to add a sony account, neither did my friends.

If you actually read the announcement, it very clearly says that new players need a PSN account from may 6th, and existing players from may 30th.
From Monday you will be bombarded with the PSN requirement for a month and then you won't be able to play without a PSN account.
D-day is next month.
- May the refunds be ever in your favor.
  "Uhhh acktuallay on page 420 of the Terms Of Service it says you have to suck my dick and you get no right to a refund!"
When I bought the game it wouldn't let me play without creating an account, and that was over a month ago. I guess the requirement is only just now rolling out for the majority of players?
- It said it required an account but you could just click next

Well... Earth Defense Force 6 is coming.

It was shit anyway. Never got it in the first place. If anything its just reassured me that online games cannot be trusted and will eventually bait and switch

Edit: especially if the rights are owned by a publisher

Out of curiosity, what didn’t you like about it?

Lol, it's still got hundreds of thousands playing.

Theres some angry outrage for sure, but it don't think it's gonna wind up that bad in the end.

It's annoying, but it's like an Origin account for an EA game or something. At least with crossplay, having one admin team to manage bans on both platforms makes sense to streamline things.

How do you think bans are working right now? You realize that you don't HAVE to have an account. All they do is assign a mirrored account to your steam ID on PSN. Or even just assign you a random one in general.
Nothing about this process streamlines anything any further, they're already doing it.
I know. I'm going to be playing tonight. I didn't bat an eye at this announcement... Mainly because it's been known since day one. People are acting like this is new information. And I don't care if less people play. Still will have plenty of players. I play with cross play turned off on PS5 to avoid cheaters anyway... so this literally isn't going to change anything for me.
They already sold many times more than they ever expected.

For anyone who actually cares this was a requirement from the start they paused it due to some issues.

People need to read stuff before buying it.

Yeah but also it's a bullshit requirement. Should be removed imo.
- It’s a crossplay mandatory game, if you’re a dick, PSN wants a way to block you. No different than getting VAC banned.
  This isn’t steam servers, it’s Sony servers. What do you want?
Nah brother. Because it's in the TOS doesn't make it OK, and in some cases, even legally enforceable.
Why are you sticking up for some arbitrary shitty corporate decision and feel the need to shift the blame to people who bought, and now supposedly OWN, the game?
I can respect it if you're doing it for money, we all gotta eat. But if it's for free, you're just an ass
- You’re playing on Sonys servers, they need a way to enforce a ban when you are a dick. On steam if they ban your account, you make a new one, and family share the game bypassing the ban.
  This is Sonys servers, it’s their rules, no different than needing a Steam account to play Steam games. This isn’t something out of the ordinary….
  I’m not sticking up for or defending anything, people are just too fucking stupid to read requirements before buying things, and now you being just as stupid defending the stupid people doing this lmfao.
  It’s Sonys servers, of course it requires an account….
You’re super correct
But “some issues” = refund window for a big chunk of the world that can’t make a PS account
- I’d be interested to know if that’s Sony or steams mistake selling them in those markets. Or isn’t that developer controlled? So maybe the devs fucked up by not restricting the sales, they said they knew about Sonys requirements.

still enjoying it lol

You know your not being snarky big dev defender saying this right? You are aware the actual devs, the creators of the game have asked people to review bomb it. This is the major order right now. It's to give the devs leverage to get Sony to back the fuck off.
- Do you have a source on the devs endorsing review bombing for leverage? I only see posts about the CEO apologizing for the policy.
- I really couldn't care. It's as easy as using making an account. People really have nothing else better to do with their lives. In fact, most people do, that's why steam charts haven't reflected any change.