unironically. yes. demand your government work for you.

Seriously, what's the point of government if not to HELP US. We didn't invent government to make our lives more difficult. We invented it to keep our shit together. For us. As a property of its existence.

Only if you hold them accountable for what they do.
- Hinder us how?
- ...of, by and for The People. Greatest work of fiction ever written.
Eh, we DIDN'T invent government. Government invented itself to control and exploit us. They do so to the degree of our tolerance levels and the level to which we are manipulated.
- "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
- no, we did invent the government, or do you really think that for however bad this is, the literal warlord nobility that predates it was Superior?

Wasn't JFKs speech supposed to be about not seeing a community only for what you get out of it?

Do you understand how offensive that concept is to a market capitalist?
They don't even want to fund public schools, and they get a pre-literate workforce out of that.
"Whats in it for me" would be our national slogan, if it wasn't already "fuck you whether or not I got mine."
That might be what the speech meant in context, but the quote alone sounds like something Animal Farm's Napoleon would say to Boxer.

American's vote for the government and fund it with their taxes. To believe it's a system with any other purpose than to serve it's citizens is assenine.

Actually, citizens pay taxes to avoid going to jail or, in the olden days (perhaps soon to be reintroduced), to avoid being killed on the spot.
They vote because when you are locked in a room with no way out, you'll push one of the buttons in front of you frantically - trying to figure out if, perhaps, they are pushed just like this, you'll get out.
When you're not paying taxes or voting, someone richer than Smaug from the Hobbit is cashing in on the rest of your life.
To call this a system that serves its citizens seems... I'm not sure what to call it. Naïve? Misguided? Uninformed?
- better than what we had before the whole government thing, if you think this is bad, wait until the warlords come kill you, enslave your children and use your wife as a baby production machine
- I don't think you get the comic, or understood how my comment was responding to it.
  Also, this is just really condescending. If you're going to be on the left, you have to learn how to argue in a way that actually convinces people you're ideas are better. This just makes you sounds like a jerk.

If they're going to steal 30%+ of my income, I expect something more than a DC pedo party and constant war.

it's supposed to be ironic ?

I think so.
That Kennedy quote has always been a puzzler.
Not in meaning, but why the hell it's supposed to be some kind of American ideal to aspire to.
"Take what we give you and beg to serve" seems a more honest phrasing.
- It's more about helping your fellow man, not the government.
- You rarely see any thing else from that speech. If they'd just show even the part right after the "ask not" part it would help.
  And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.
  My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.
  -JFK Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961

I do in fact demand better of my government.

Unironically yes.

It's not an issue of whether or not the government will work for the advantage ofone group of people - it WILL work for the advantage of one group of people. It can't help but. It can't do literally everything - it has to pick and choose specific things. And each of those specific things will, if it provides benefit at all, only provide that benefit for some.

So the issue is merely who is going to benefit.

And the only way for we the people to benefit, as opposed to a handful of wealthy and powerful fuckwads benefitting, is if we the people demand that we're the ones who benefit - if we insist, "No - fuck you - this is our government spending our tax revenue and it's fucking well going to spend it on us!"

Ok but also remember that Kennedy was demanding Americans accept responsibility for those less fortunate among us and that we invest in our future

Bernie’s not a socialist.

elabtorate?
- Soc dem at best.
I've always found him rightwing compared to some of the Canadian politicians. But yea. That's our world.
His personal belief, or his political position?

elect nerds to public office.. nerds work hard and balance books..

Bold of you to assume there's no socio- or psychopaths among nerds. Just look at the tech industry C-suite.
- Do you have a point, or did you just want to disagree with someone?
- i talk about balancing books and you jump straight to psychopathy.. shows where your mind is and how low your expectations are.. i'll bet you vote for Republicans who talk a bunch of shit and do nothing but steal..

Governments who do not fear their people have no reason to maintain a culture of obeying their wishes.

You can demand it, but when your election options are all determined by insiders and you further contribute by treating 3rd parties like laughing stock, you've got nothing but some weak whatever's left of a second amendment to hold over them.

That's crazy talk. You'd have to have some crazy government where you only get to vote every couple of years for one of only two candidates where the only reason to vote for one of them would be to not vote for the other guy for something like that to happen.

Ask not what you can do for you country; we will be the ones asking the questions here. Your country will tell you what to do and either you will obey or there will be consequences, because the revolution was a lie and you are a fool.

Sounds like capitalism with extra steps...

How's that JFK quote end, Steve Kelley?

Based

A bit of a weird tangent, but Canadian civil servants are the fucking worst. They make OKish money, and have some of the most secure jobs in the country, which unfortunately means they come with some of the worst attitudes ever. Like, they've got this massive chip on their shoulders that they don't make more money, but they can't lose their jobs, so they'll be damned if they're gonna fucking help you with a problem that totally falls under their purview. I always came out of public buildings with the mantra, "My fucking taxes pay your shitty salary!" running through my head.

I moved to Korea some years back, and was amazed how helpful public officials can actually be. Not that Korea doesn't have its share of bureaucratic problems, too.

You were probably more polite in SK and positive discrimination of white foreigners is very common in Asia.
- Both of those things may be true, but have you seen Zootopia? The sloth who works in the DMV? That joke falls flat here because Korean DMVs are notoriously fast, efficient, and staffed by competent, courteous people.
- No, he's right, canadian government employees are the fucking worst.
Sounds like Canadian gov workers have it figured out. Who gives a shit. Its just a job. Why bend over backwards?
This also a massive over simplified and generally repeated untruth about government employees anyway. It's a good story to tell when you're trying to undermine a strong labor group. "They're lazy", "they don't care", "they have it too good". Makes for a great premise for a media company that wants to send that message too.
All bullshit.
I find that when I don't act like an entitled ass and respect what these people are doing, I have perfectly adequate interactions with them.
- So, which is it? They have it figured out and underperforming is the way to go, or I'm making a generalization that isn't true? Ahh, I see. I'm an impolite media company trying to slander hard working bureaucrats.

The government is not there to serve you, it's there to govern you.

The government is there to govern society in the best interest of the populace. That is a form of service.
- No, it's there to govern society in the interest of government members and their friends. Always has been.
yes, but only in authoritarianism. In a democracy it's the opposite: the raison d'etre of the government is to serve the populace.
- Look up dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
- Oh, you sweet summer child...