Conservative groups sue to block Biden plan canceling $39 billion in student loans
Conservative groups sue to block Biden plan canceling $39 billion in student loans
Why are these assholes so against helping people? These fuckers are nothing but greedy sociopaths.
conservatives view social hierarchy as a necessity which must be enforced. if you’re at the bottom, you deserve to be there, and if you’re there, you suffer because you deserve it, and because you’re at the bottom, you deserve to suffer. cruelty is the point, and without it, there can’t be the joy of their success.
anything else, to them, is profane and must be fought/destroyed. anyone who tries to climb above their position must be punished.
relevant videos:
A Conservative is someone who can't enjoy their dinner without knowing someone else is hungry
The only thing baffling about any of this is that somehow, millions of ordinary, working/middle-class Americans believe that this system benefits them more than the alternative.
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I've always regarded that episode of the playbook as especially astute.
Thank you for the links. They were very enlightening.
Christian in name only.
"I'm not getting debt relief, so why should they" is their only argument. They're just greedy.
And many of them got covid bailouts and never had to pay a penny back and do not think even for a moment that their actions are hypocritical
And we literally have congress critters that lived on welfare debt relief programs and want to tell others to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
I don't need student debt relief, it won't affect me. But I am extremely for it - it's called wanting a better life for your fellow human being.
Compassion - it's not a difficult concept if you're not a narcissistic a$$hole.
And as an added bonus, the money currently going to banks would actually get better distributed to businesses (both big and small) and act as a net gain to our economy. But screw that - we don't want some bank stocks to dip and affect some wealthy pension plans! /s
If people can organize instead of work overtime…
Along with the usual "the cruelty is the point" responses, I'd like to remind people that this is a direct strategy championed by Mitch McConnell, who has been championing this strategy long before Biden came along.
First, McConnell believes that the GOP should not have any policy positions on anything at all. If you have a policy position, that position is subject to criticism. Rather than champion policies that he fully admits would be unpopular with the voters, McConnell believes in simply pointing to the Democrat policies, pointing out the flaws in those policies, and just making vague promises that the GOP can do better without actually defining how. Ever seen the meme of the guy tapping his own head while saying something profoundly stupid? That's exactly what this is. Picture McConnell doing that while saying "Can't be criticized for your terrible ideas if you just don't have any ideas at all!"
The other part, also championed by McConnell and others, is that no matter what it is, if it originally was a Democrat idea, then a Republican must be against it at all costs. Not only must they be against it, they must treat every Democrat policy as a threat to American society as we know it. Take a look at Romneycare in Massachusetts. A healthcare bill created by a Republican that was considered widely successful and basically the cornerstone to Obamacare. But the second a Democrat suggesting nationalizing the program, it was suddenly the worst program in the world that would collapse our healthcare system and lead to death panels.
And sad to say, but it's been a very effective strategy for them. It's easy for the GOP to get their voters to blame Democrats for problems because deflecting blame is easy, and people are always looking for someone to blame for whatever problems they have in life. People tend not to do their own research or critical thinking and often just prefer to be "told" what the "right" answer is, especially if what they're told jives with their own personal worldview. If voters want to believe that Democrats are the root of all evil, and their elected leaders are saying that Democrats are the root of all evil, it's not much of a stretch to get them to believe that anything or any ideas associated with Democrats are also evil and must be eradicated.
It's all about maintaining political power through obstruction. Doesn't matter how bad your own policies are just as long as you continue to make sure voters believe that the alternative is even worse.
This is extremely well said. Thanks for taking the time.
When you view life as a zero sum game it turns you into a real selfish cunt.
Because either they got theirs and fuck everyone else. Or, they never got theirs and fuck everyone who might get theirs.
They've become so focused on political "points" and afraid of the other "team" scoring a "point" that they're willing to do anything, regardless of the optics.
Because they don't stop and look at the bigger picture - it's just political capital they can push around or dangle as a carrot in front of voters for future elections.
Because Ronnie RayGun said it is dangerous for government to help people. Totally cool for government to help those poor billionaires though.
Totally cool for government to help those poor billionaires though.
Well, Elorn bought Twatter and can't afford to pay rent (or severance, or server fees, or lawyers), so it seems right that he should get a handout. How's the guy even gonna pay for his next lunch?!
Meanwhile, my grandmother can't afford insulin. That bitch better figure it out!
Wilholt's law, "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Aka, "you're not hurting the right people"
Because the corporations that own the private colleges and universities that overcharge on tuition also are the ones that hand out student loans.
They stand to lose billions of dollars in predatory profit if they can't collect interest on student loans.
Because it hurts college-educated people. Culture war.
Simple answer I think is GOP don't want anyone in their base to think any form of government assistance is good and will always label it as hand outs. More government assistance/social safety nets means their capitalist overlords gets to maintain and build their control over citizens and money will flow to them instead. Also "liberals bad!"
They get mad about feeding starving kids too
Imagine there is a group that does everything in it's power to block every positive change there could be.
Imagine further that the same group also does everything in it's power to change every positive thing into a negative.
Now imagine that >48% of people vote for that group.
And finally imagine you in a place like that.
Honestly, unimaginable.
That's why it drives me nuts when people get a cynical and say both parties are the same or that your vote doesn't matter. Pay attention to how the different parties vote!
"both parties" is just code for right wing asshole trying to skew the vote
Enlightened centrists are the worst. At least you know what you're getting with republicans.
Both parties are horrible but one party is much horrible-er. I think you can guess the one
It's absolutely true that they are not identical. Although they are far too similar. Only really differentiating on the subject of social democracy. Where the Democrats at least pay lip service to it. Which is a big plus for the Democrats. Whereas Republicans openly show disdain for it.
Other than that they are both far right wing economic parties. Who have both actively attacked labor. Although in the Democrats defense they are often just eager to go along with what Republicans are doing. And don't actually take the initiative on their own.
If it wasn't for the Democrats loose Pro social democracy stands I wouldn't vote for them there's very little you can point to and recent history that they have accomplished that's been truly good. Outside of civil rights same-sex marriage Etc. They seriously need to stop waiting the better part of a century before fighting for things to people need.
They just want to hurt people. Imagine voting to keep people indebted. That's them.
Yep. 😂 🤣
And finally imagine you in a place like that.
You don't even have to imagine. That's the reality of the United States in 2023 and has been for a long time.
(I think that was the joke)
its
These greedy motherfuckers don't want anyone to be helped unless they profit somehow.
I think it'd be more accurate these authoritarian motherfuckers don't want anyone to be anything other than their slaves.
Cato Institute was cited in the article, and, being a fervent right-wing think tank hater, they don't talk about profit. Instead, they'll argue for some shit like short term limited duration insurance because they're less regulated than other health insurance plans. This falls in line with their "De-regulate Everything" argumentative scheme. In other words, it's perfectly a-okay if companies can rip people off without federal oversight.
But for programs that in any way help other people...well...they're unconstitutional or an abuse of executive power.
It's interesting (except not at all, because they're all hypocrites) how they haven't said anything against DeSantis's use of executive power in Florida. Somehow, everything he does is constitutional and within the reach of executive power.
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Trillion dollar budget for the military industrial complex? Money well spent! A single dime spent to help taxpayers? Socialism!
The majority of the federal budget goes to welfare and entitlements. I'm on the "no standing army" side of things, but it doesn't help to propagate incorrect information.
Edit: this is absurd. There's no opinion here: the comment I replied to is factually wrong. You can't dislike facts until they're not true.
you failed to engage with their actual argument, which was that military spending is absurdly high but always univocally supported by everyone in the establishment and increased with every new budget, but that it's an uphill fight to get anything new for people who actually need help.
I think you're getting down voted for two reasons.
All that said, I do think you make a good point that there's other programs to look at. Maybe we can cut the military budget while also looking at saving money on Medicare.
I think you just misinterpreted the OP's statement. Conservatives also don't want welfare and entitlement spending and try to cut those back all the time. OP's statement is a characterization of conservative opinions on spending. Conservatives don't support spending on student debt relief, welfare, or entitlements. They do support military spending. That's not factually incorrect. And, it is irrelevant how much of the budget those categories represent because conservatives didn't choose those levels and don't support them.
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/
By far, the biggest category of discretionary spending is spending on the Pentagon and military. In most years, this accounts for more than half of the discretionary budget. In 2020, because some discretionary spending passed through supplemental appropriations went to pandemic programs, the share of the discretionary budget that went to the military was smaller – even though the amount that went to the military was just as high as in previous years.
Most "welfare" falls under discretionary. Medicare, medicaid, and social security (also "welfare") fall under mandatory spending. Social security and medicare make up the largest categories. This organization explains how "welfare" spending increased in recent years due to pandemic spending on things like stimulus checks and increased unemployment.
The bottom line thoughis that people pay into it for years so that it's available when it's their turn to need it. If they never do, then great. It can help someone else, god forbid.
Welfare to soldiers and their families. What's your point?
the majority doesn't go anywhere near welfare wtf are you on about: https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/
Sounds good, I'll keep voting for the party that hates US citizens
-Fucking dipshits who think they're doing anything other than volunteer work for billionaires
It's not volunteer work if they're getting paid by said billionaires taps head
Like any of them do it for money (those that vote straight R)
Just. Zero. The. Interest.
I know so many people that have no issues paying what they borrowed, but at this point, they've already paid back the initial amount and still owe more than they initially borrowed and it's fucking ridiculous.
I would be okay if it were set to a mandatory percentage, like 2%.
It's federally backed so the risk to lenders is incredibly low. What right do they have to charge some of these new students 9 percent interest on a loan that the government is paying them to give?
Yep, cap education cost if you don't want to make it free, have the federal government provide zero interest loans if states don't want to do it, reap the reward of having a more educated population, including better salaries which means more taxes paid which compensates for the zero interest loans.
The real problem is that they don’t want a more educated population.
The "I got mine, fuck you" crowd really hates progress.
The student loan interest rates are exuberant, while I support the nullification of times past, I'd also like to see the core issue being taken care of
I think you mean “exorbitant” ;)
Here's one thing I don't understand: does loan cancellation consist of the government paying off the loan, or is it a legal nullification of somebody's loan? If it's the former, I get economic concerns. If it's the latter, then I really don't see arguments against loan cancellation as very credible.
Yes, let's do both.
Yeah, I'd like to focus on stopping the bleeding before mopping up blood. I don't know what the message is here for future generations.
TL;DR They tried to stop it and FAILED.
So debt relief when, then? I was smart enough not go to college because the job opportunities are the same regardless, but my dumbass brother could really use the help.
If you think your brother is a dumbass for simply going to college, you may be the dumbass in the family. If he is a dumbass for other reasons carry on.
Some people don't want to work a job that they hate even if it pays well, so they go to school to specialize in something that they like. Not everybody wants to work a trade job, or be a salesman or whatever.
But yea debt relief would be nice. Anybody who wants to further their education shouldn't have to go into debt to do it.
How many of these conservatives tried to cancel the Trump and Bush tax cuts for the wealthy? Fuck conservatives!!
Well right because those clearly trickle down as you can see by the constant record-breaking wealth inequality.
Just one more tax break for the rich bro, trust me bro, it's gonna work this time bro, it's gonna trickle down like craaaazy bro, the rich just need one more tax break bro, bro please bro, trust me it's gonna trickle like huge bro
Stop voting for Republicans. They don't want the government helping students and workers. All they have is hating on people who are woke. The Woke are minorities, LGBTQ, and non Christians.
Not even just Christians, anyone not their brand of "Christianity", the brand that hates everyone, gets the woke label as well.
We should sue the government because of all the tax cuts for the rich if this is how conservatives feel the need to act
i should sue for all the ppp loans that were forgiven. how unfair is that. rich people got loans forgiven yet you or i cannot.
Most PPP loans didn’t even save any jobs
Went directly into the business owners pocket to buy swimming pools, boats & exotic cars.
I think the main issue is that the people who are sueing student loans, can afford to.
Using similar logic we should be able to use for that. It's a load of bullshit. The government is constantly giving money directly to rich people, but God forbid we do the same thing for regular people.
This is legitimately a good idea. Does anyone know a lawyer that would take that case on?
Better call Saul!
There's a lot of lawyers that still have student loans.
Aren’t they conveniently exempt from lawsuits?
Not anymore, if this is how the courts what to run things
So where are all of the conservative "if Biden actually wanted to cancel student loan debt he would just do it" people now
They just need to make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy. High earners who can afford their student loans will be dismissed like any bankruptcy court applicant who makes enough money to pay their debts, and the people who are actually struggling will get relief at the penalty of 7 years very bad credit.
Bankruptcy works for every other kind of debt, it was written into the Constitution by the founding fathers, and it's the perfect system designed exactly for problems like the student loan crisis.
I'd rather have both the forgiveness and the bankruptcy option.
Student loans are intentionally excluded from bankruptcy because law students used to declare bankruptcy immediately upon graduating.
They had tons of debt and no or very low income. The court usually discharged The debts.
It wasn't limited to lawyers. It's just that the law students knew how to file fos bankruptcy, since bankruptcy law was part of law school.
The banks lobbied Congress change the bankruptcy laws to prevent that from happening.
It was never a secret and yet the poor and miserable keep voting for them.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Two conservative groups are asking a federal court to block the Biden administration’s plan to cancel $39 billion in student loans for more than 800,000 borrowers.
In a lawsuit filed Friday in Michigan, the groups argue that the administration overstepped its power when it announced the forgiveness in July, just weeks after the Supreme Court struck down a broader cancellation plan pushed by President Joe Biden.
The Education Department called the suit “a desperate attempt from right wing special interests to keep hundreds of thousands of borrowers in debt.”
It’s part of a wave of legal challenges Republicans have leveled at the Biden administration’s efforts to reduce or eliminate student debt for millions of Americans.
Under the one-time fix, past periods in forbearance were also counted as progress toward Public Service Loan Forgiveness, a program that offers cancellation after 10 years of payments while working in a government or nonprofit job.
Biden’s action was illegal, the lawsuit says, because it wasn’t authorized by Congress and didn’t go through a federal rulemaking process that invites public feedback.
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I just want to say I was surprised and so fucking happy when I got a notification that a payment did not go through for my student loan and logged into my loans website and seeing that the 7100 I had left was suddenly paid off.
I'm sure that just like overturning Roe this will bode well for Republicans next year lol
The number of times I've seen people complain about Biden not doing anything about student loans begs to differ. Republicans drag their feet or block, and democrats suffer for not doing enough.
While I understand your frustration and see that trend on a lot of topics with Republicans obstructing and Democrats taking the heat and I am sure there's a lot of rhetoric among loudmouths about this, surveys suggest most people know who to blame.
Don't get complacent; while the policy changes are rallying Democrats to vote in order to reverse them, they're also rallying Republicans to vote to keep the regression train going.
Yup they're getting the evangelicals all frothed up with the thought of taking away birth control entirely
Can students sue those conservatives?
no
Why not?
The enemies of the people.
Non profits who want to keep under paying educated employees, suing to reverse PSLF awardees. So scummy it's painful.
From what I've read this is on much firmer legal ground than the last one. But you gotta get through lawsuits for everything.
39 billions is money which could be going to Israel to support their genocide.
Taking it from them and giving it to American education is anti semitic! /s /ADL
Okay so for starters I am for cancelling this debt.
But this thread is full of people in this thread making false equivalencies with regard to why people might oppose this. Things I've seen:
"Fuck you I got mine"
"My dad died of cancer so it'd be wrong if them to continue cancer research"
"Just evil"
"A bunch of people who don't have debt"
Etc.
And for all of you this applies to I offer this: What is the plan for preventing it from continuing after the current orders of debt are cancelled? Is there anything? I genuinely haven't heard it if it exists. If there isn't a plan on stifling the lending rates forever more, then the issue will just resurface, likely worse. I'm all for cancelling the debt but is there a plan for preventing the debt?
That's literally always been the goal, and conservatives have pounded their chests and dragged their feet, and now liberals have had to back up to doing subtle payment plans and exclusive relief measures that require a person to be in debt for decades.
I'm sorry, but what a bad take.
Same. I paid off my loans but I'd love it if my friends and wife had an easier time. To say nothing of the millions being dragged down by over a trillion in debt.
But I get why people who may have invested in Student Loan asset backed securities might not want student loans forgiven. SLABS may be part of 401Ks or pension plans. I think debt shouldn't be something people can even invest in, but for those who did, I get why they oppose it. It could even potentially harm a student paying back a loan who also has a retirement account that invested in SLABS.
And this absolutely is just a band aid on a gaping wound. It doesn't actually resolve the problem, and with no attempt to remedy it in the future, I can see it just making college access even more difficult for the less fortunate.
Biden should do everything he can to push it forward, but that is just a first step, and the people opposed to it may have some valid concerns.
Good. Pay your loans, people. Money doesn't grow on trees.
