I'm going to go insane from having to explain people how their political beliefs work
I'm going to go insane from having to explain people how their political beliefs work
I don't even agree with your shit how am I better at it than you. How are you gonna jerk off over the rules based societal order and then claim you can ignore whatever highest court you have because you personally disagree. mfer you just reinvented feudalism again
I once had to explain the french revolution to a "classical liberal" my man that's the ideology you say you are how have you not even heard of it
there's a good quote from Trotsky (yes, bare with me) about how liberals disavow the French revolution and Marxists are the true inheritors of that struggle's legacy.
The Great French Revolution was indeed a national revolution. And what is more, within the national framework, the world struggle of the bourgeoisie for domination, for power, and for undivided triumph found its classical expression.
Jacobinism is now a term of reproach on the lips of all liberal wiseacres. Bourgeois hatred of revolution, its hatred towards the masses, hatred of the force and grandeur of the history that is made in the streets, is concentrated in one cry of indignation and fear – Jacobinism! We, the world army of Communism, have long ago made our historical reckoning with Jacobinism. The whole of the present international proletarian movement was formed and grew strong in the struggle against the traditions of Jacobinism. We subjected its theories to criticism, we exposed its historical limitations, its social contradictoriness, its utopianism, we exposed its phraseology, and broke with its traditions, which for decades had been regarded as the sacred heritage of the revolution.
But we defend Jacobinism against the attacks, the calumny, and the stupid vituperations of anaemic, phlegmatic liberalism. The bourgeoisie has shamefully betrayed all the traditions of its historical youth, and its present hirelings dishonour the graves of its ancestors and scoff at the ashes of their ideals. The proletariat has taken the honour of the revolutionary past of the bourgeoisie under its protection. The proletariat, however radically it may have, in practice, broken with the revolutionary traditions of the bourgeoisie, nevertheless preserves them, as a sacred heritage of great passions, heroism and initiative, and its heart beats in sympathy with the speeches and acts of the Jacobin Convention.
oh boy, that thing. Safe to say most french people have a very poor understanding of that event, because schools here teach that Robespierre was basically Stalin and that Danton was like Obama. I wish I made this up but thats literally what I was taught back in High School. Also the whole "violence bad" bullshit, skipping the fact the french monarchy was atrocious for anyone who wasnt in the clergy or the nobility.
It is also important however to be clear about what we mean when we say that it was a bourgeois revolution.
It wasn't a bourgeois revolution in the sense that there was a group of self-conscious bourgeoisie who specially carried out a revolution to create a bourgeois or capitalist society. The key figures and organizers, not to mention the masses who were essential to it, were not normally bourgeois. There were of course a lot of bourgeois who were sympathetic to the pushback of absolutist royal authority (as France by this period was not really feudal either in terms of its mode of production, political power no longer being parcelized but rather concentrated in the monarchy, though this can also been seen as an important and natural development of powerful feudal governments, as also happened to a lesser degree in England under the Tudors as a result of the degeneration of bastard feudalism). Nor did the French bourgeoisie organize itself into a specifically bourgeois political party for their own uniquely specific interests. People like Robespierre, Saint-Juste, etc. were normally lawyers or employed by the state, but were not really bourgeois, unless we really stretch the definition of bourgeois or petit bourgeois, though they were not engaging in rational profit-seeking activity for the functional purpose of capital accumulation. France would not truly succeed at capitalism development until after the 1830s/40s, and even until the late 19th century the French peasantry were not really living in capitalism fully, though of course they were deeply influenced by it and were increasingly dependent and coerced by its development.
There's similar things to say when people talk about the English Civil War as a bourgeois revolution, though I'd say that their 'Glorious Revolution' (i.e. the one where they invited a Dutchman to rule them, i.e. the most English Revolution of all time), is a more fully bourgeois revolution.
What it did do however it produce the conditions for a bourgeois-dominated capitalist society, through political revolution and then socio-economic transformations which the former made possible. It allowed for development of societies whose values were increasingly favorable to the breakdown of restraints on bourgeois and capitalist development. Liberalism as a ideology became more and more powerful, including many French liberals who admired English society, which was significantly further along the path of capitalist development than France.
That's also a reason why it was a genuinely politically revolution, as the brilliance of the series of events that make it up can be seen in that they did not live in a capitalist society yet, nor were the French bourgeoisie very developed as a class But that should no more make us think that this was not the key political event allowing for the eventual development of capitalism on the European continent, than should the fact that the Bolshevik revolution was led by people who were mostly not themselves members of the proletariat. Like when you read speeches by Robespierre, Saint-Juste and so on MFs are going off and do not read at all like modern libreals, because they were not, and they were genuinely revolutionary individuals.
I know I'm late to the party here but I figure, if you didn't know, it might pique your interest, the shortly after banned KPD said to the constitution of germany
"We will not sign this. However, the day will come that we communist will defend it agains those who did"
I'm starting to realize most people I've met have political beliefs no more complex than "I can do whatever I want and also I'm not gay." No conception of what class they belong to, no idea what organizing is, rather just stuck in the idea their personal opinions are what matters the most. They don't want anything that could possibly impede consumerism. Also it's really important to know they're not gay. They never want to be mistaken for gay and that's their central political motivation.
Anything that might imply they're gay could be bad, including wearing sunscreen, shaving, eating soy, driving the speed limit. All of that is gay and is thus the political opposition.
Is that what you're struggling with? Most Americans seem to think yelling at TV or being in a Facebook group constitutes praxis. I mean we're posters so we're not much better but at least I know I'm just a goofus cackling at a pig shit emoji
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Seconded, it's ironic. They show how much of a rebel they are by proudly wearing "conformist" as a badge of honor.
political beliefs no more complex than "I can do whatever I want and also I'm not gay."
Not true. They also know there are good guys and bad guys.
I'm just a goofus cackling at a pig shit emoji
Despite all my rage I am still posting pigs in a cage
It takes decades in the meme mines to develop a coherent belief system
I can do whatever I want and also I'm not gay.
God damn if this doesn't describe every single cishet mayo dude I've ever known
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And exactly like atheism, it is the intense, structured formation of a formal critique in analysis, a thought experiment to test the default assumption, an attempt to understand why the starting conclusion "feels wrong" than directly leads to a unwinnable confrontation with the magical thinking that underpins both of these enterprises
Like a bishop once told me, not all atheists went to seminary but studying at a seminary "earnestly, in good faith" will inevitably lead to a struggle with atheism for the rest of their life
There's a bit of the spirit of the political revolutionary in the atheist movement I guess, in this way. I'm not sure what to do with it, but I think it's something to jot down for the moment
i mean that's how i got here in a roundabout way. There's a failure of a large segment of the "skeptical community" to apply their skeptical tools to contemporary social issues, but you also had the less internationally famous people like PZ Myers, Rebecca Watson, Sikivu Hutchinson and other people in their blog networks who were not comrades but usually did better than typical white liberal democrats.
The atheist community of austin had (or has? idk fuck them) a long-running public access tv show but they imploded over trans rights with all the comrades quitting in protest. Prior to that they were a good example of post-New atheism that wasn't overtly racist and so on.
a lot of shit libs stanning clinton and biden came out of that group though. minnesota liberal radio hosts gonna minensota liberal i guess.
There is a reason why Marx developed his thought in part but in an essential way by transcending the Young Hegelian critique of religion, and moving beyond a purely formal, abstract, intellectual critique on the internal consistency of the ideas, to the conditions which produce these conditions.
Marx emphasizes the concept of fetishism in part because he wants to highlight how the fetishist function of money in a capitalist society has important similarities to the fetishist aspects of religion.
Obviously it was a far bigger deal being an atheist in, say, 19th century Prussia or Russia, than the West today, but it still aggravates me that critique of organized religion has declined among Communists. Especially as a major obstacle to communist politics in non-western societies is the influence, authority and power of organized religion. I understand why, however, in that this critique has superficially been taken up by reactionary liberals, neoliberals and neoconservatives, and as many of us do not want to risk appearing, let alone being, say, Islamophobic. However I do think this a something of a passive relationship, rather than an actively or constructively critical and evaluative one to organized religion. This has less to do with if someone, say, is interested in the metaphysics of Taoism or Buddhism, or whatever (though not all religions are metaphysically equal frankly), but more with critiques of organized religion and religious ideology in its variety of forms.
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Reddit atheism is based.
I think it's a really big problem how the position of permanent and principled critique of religion as mystification has been surrendered by people who described themselves as on the left, including, communists, and taken up by reactionary Neoliberals and Neoconservatives, whose critiques are obviously deeply ignorant and reactionary, and motivated to a huge degree by a desire to feel intellectually superior to others, but in a way analogous to junk food, as these people do not actually have any interesting things to say, let alone critiques, of religion other than obvious and trivial ones which are expressed in a reactionary way.
The most hardcore atheists I know are all Iranian communists, for obvious reasons.
I don't even agree with your shit how am I better at it than you
feel this in mah bones
Back in my internet arguing days I would usually help my opponent with their argument but still point out why they were wrong.
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But have you considered that the really enlightened mindset is precisely Super Sigma-Male 3 in which one is too busy holding their hand over a flame, flexing their bicep in a mirror, dreaming of murdering minorities, and transcending the need for compassion to have time for politics?
I have a Christian relative that is "ok with capital punishment because there are reasons" and I nearly died of irony. Would you believe they are anti-abortion too?
Why yes, yes i would believe that. The classic Christian USian pro-death penalty/anti-abortion combo.
If ideology were a drive thru it would be the #2. The #1 would be fiscally conservative/socially liberal with super sized fries and a 64 oz soda
That makes sense, though? Like, the Bible prescribes death for a multiple crimes.
You are correct. Here's why I find it ironic:
- Jesus was innocent of any crime, neither Roman nor Hebrew, but was executed anyway.
- 4% of death row inmates are innocent.
No thoughts, head empty, only vibes
Vibes based politics and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Don’t fucking quote Ted Kaczynski, he’s a pos.
[Sartre Quote] slightly updated:
“Never believe that anti-Semites/centrists/liberals/non-politicals are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites/centrists/liberals/non-politicals have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre
True for antisemites but the problem is the centrists / liberals are actually completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies is my point. To stick with the example, the checks and balances is what you're supposed to defend against the savage lawless hordes elsewhere, how you gonna throw that shit overboard at the slightest ideological disagreement with the institutions you jerk off over. Not even leftists are that infighty
Yeah most people don't actually have political beliefs. They're centrists, they just adopt whatever the hegemon is saying.
KINGDOM OF CONSCIENCE – Moralists don't really have beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like on a child's toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded. Centrism isn't change -- not even incremental change. It is control. Over yourself and the world. Exercise it. Look up at the sky, at the dark shapes of Coalition airships hanging there. Ask yourself: is there something sinister in moralism? And then answer: no. God is in his heaven. Everything is normal on Earth.
:yea:
the centrists / liberals are actually completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies is my point.
I don't think that's true. Honestly I think most people who spout bullshit, from all corners of the spectrum, subconsciously, or even sometimes consciously, know it's bullshit, but it's bullshit they have some kind of incentive to believe so they talk themselves into it. Leftists aren't immune to this either, we just do a better job of calling it out.
To steal a chapo bit: the average american thinks Bush did 9/11 but that he was justified in doing so. A land of incoherencies
That’s because they don’t have beliefs. It’s all just vibes to them
Moralists don't really have beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like on a child's toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded. Centrism isn't change -- not even incremental change. It is control. Over yourself and the world. Exercise it. Look up at the sky, at the dark shapes of Coalition airships hanging there. Ask yourself: is there something sinister in moralism? And then answer: no. God is in his heaven. Everything is normal on Earth.
This is, both regrettably and fortunately, the role of the revolutionary.
Regrettably: Gotta explain stuff to these ignorant libs and it's annoying.
Fortunately: Theit ideas are such mush that you get to radicalize them rather than treat them like brownshirts.
Most 'liberal's' political beliefs are basically: whatever the status quo is.
Once you realise most people don't give a shit about anything that doesn't directly affect or implicate them, you realise why things remain how they are.
"A political movement based on an appeal to people's sense of justice will be a short-lived movement at best. You have to appeal to people's sense of necessity."
Try to tell people to stop eating meat and reduce their consumption of dietary animal products because of the moral/environmental disaster that it is, and suddenly it's too hard to have empathy.
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a new tagline
