Google's WebP

fucking Telegram automatically converts any webp sent in a message to a fucking sticker
I didn't want that. I want the ability to view the image, including zooming in and panning, and telegram forcing it into a sticker kills that completely
- Whatsapp is marginally better but outside of regular sms texting I fine Facebook messenger to be the best.
  Now don't get it twisted, it's still shit just the best of the shitty messaging apps.
- I came to bitch about the same thing.
  
  This looks like the most relevant bug on Telegram's bug tracker for the issue: https://bugs.telegram.org/c/4360

Wait am I the only one who actually likes WEBP and is cheering for JPEG to finally die ? 😭
- No, I've heard there is dozens of you, dozens!
- Webp can die. JpegXL is better in every metric and can losslessly compress existing jpeg images. The chromium team has been notably trying to kill JXL because they spent so much time on AVIF and Webp despite neither offer anything close to JXL.
- If webp didn't come from google I might cheer it. I refuse to adopt any standard made by google if I can help it. If google made it, they made it with some reason or ability to alter it that's nefarious and anti consumer. They wouldn't make an improved open standard that wasn't going to allow them to do shady shit.
  
  They made it because better image compression means less storage is required for images. Even if it's a small upgrade, over trillions of images or exabytes of data saved translates into millions of dollars saved. This is the same thing for the delta format as another example
  By making .webp an open standard, more people will use it, thus more space savings will be had by default

webp is absofuckinglutely inferior to JPEG-XL and that one is where you actually have that problem. I’m literally providing an avif-fallback on my website, because otherwise pretty much no browser would support anything.
(Speaking of it, avif is also superior to webp.)
- I'll take ASCII art over webp.
  
  The true best form of image storage. Nothing beats .txt
  
  miss the days when I could watch the entire matrix movie on ascii before BitTorrent and streaming
- Avif, the only one that I hate more than webp. 😞
  
  Why? It’s definitely better than webp, even if google’s chrome team uses it to justify not including JXL.
- JPEG-XL is loads of bollocks.

for my use cases of memes or a PowerPoint type thing once in a while for school. Literally any image format works for me. I don't care about quality (as long as it's not REALLY bad) and just want to get the image from Google to the PowerPoint, and somehow GOOGLES own image format fails to work for GOOGLES PowerPoint product.
I don't understand how you can not support your own format 10 years after it came out.
pro tip by the way, you can open it in Microsoft paint then "save as -> .PNG" to get Google slides/whatever to accept it.
(before someone recommends alternatives, im talking about use on a locked down school computer. I can't use alternative software that's better because they block images in WIKIPEDIA, no shot for using an actual foss software lmao)
- use on a locked down school computer.
  Shift + Win + S
  I'll bet they didn't disable that in Group Policy. Lasso that sumbitch right off your screen and then just paste it into whatever.
  
  Paint trick would leave the option for higher quality, a screen grab leaves you at screen grab resolution.
- You don’t even have to open it in Microsoft paint, you can just save it as a new format from the standard image viewer software.
- Plus, it makes a bunch of users resort to adding extensions to their browser such as
  "Save webP as PNG or JPEG 1.5.4"
  which is fine but absolutely not as secure as without extensions.
- Ask your boss if you can install GIMP

in my honest opinion, it’s a real shame that webp isn’t widely supported. it’s actually really great: it has awesome lossless compression, it’s so much smaller than a png while not losing any quality, it supports animation and loops, etc. it’s like jpg, png, and gif rolled into one format.
- it’s like jpg, png, and gif rolled into one format.
  and therein lies the problem.
  one tool should do one thing, and do it well.

The giant jpeg square artefact on the side of Homer's head in the first frame undermines the message somewhat.
- I'm not sure that's a JPEG artifact. It looks more like a video compression artifact (since the image is probably taken from a video).
  
  Wait till this guy hears what videos are made of

I recently put in a lot of hours for a software system to be able to handle webp just as well as every other image format it already accepted. I put in a lot of work as well. Hadn't heard about it for a while, but saw the feature release statement for the new version I knew my changes were in. It wasn't on there. So I reached out to my contact and asked if there was an issue or did it get bumped to a later version or what? So she told me the marketing team that do the release statements decided not to include it. They stated for one, people already expect common formats to be handled. Saying you now handle a format looks bad, since people know you didn't handle it before and were behind the curve. The second (probably more important) reason was nobody knew what webp even was and it's only something technical people care about (they probably said nerds, but my contact translated). So no regular customer would be interested and it could only lead to confusion and questions.
I hope somebody is happy with the work I put in tho. Somebody is going to drag a webp into the system and have it be accepted. Someday.... I hope...
- The only ones reading the changelog are nerds anyway
- a bit related.
  Was working for a comparison engine. Back in the day things where slow. But i made it lightning fast. Pretty proud.
  Untill a few weeks later the manager comes up, and tells me to make it SLOWER!
  apparently users thought it was suss that it was so fast and the results therefore where fake…
  
  Let me introduce you to good old speed up loops.
  https://thedailywtf.com/articles/The-Speedup-Loop
- Fuck those people for telling you this after you did the work
  Those reasons are hard-stop stupid. If they REALLY cared about the marketing they'd release it silently or add a "improvements to image format handling" line and leave it at that.
  
  I will second the suggestion at something like "expanded support for more image formats". One of my responsibilities is rolling the development log into customer release notes and I agree with the "changes that highlight a previous shortcoming can look bad", and make accommodations for that all the time. I also try to make sure every developer that contributed can recognize their work in the release notes.
  "Expanded image format support" seems like something that if a customer hasn't noticed, they would assume "oh they must have some customer with a weird proprietary format that they added but have to be vague about". If it were related to customer requests, I would email the specific customers highlighting their need for webp is addressed after pushing the release notes
  
  Maybe I worded it incorrectly. The feature was released in that version. They just didn't mention it in the release statement they put out to there customers. I'm sure there's some changelog somewhere people can dig into where it says something like what you mentioned. Or it can just be under "Various small improvements" which they always add as a catch-all.
  So I'm happy, I did the job and got paid. Everyone I worked with was happy. And the feature got released. It's was just a let down it didn't get mentioned at all, even though I put quite a lot of work into it.
- I hope somebody is happy with the work I put in tho. Somebody is going to drag a webp into the system and have it be accepted.
  And that was me! I mean, not with your software but with someone else's years ago. Still, in a weird anachronistic karma sort of way, thank you for caring.
- That marketing team is a bunch of absolute morons. Handling Webp would have made the comapny trendsetters.
- I appreciate it! Thank you

Real men use .ico

skill issue

Just change the file extension to *.png. Works every time.
- surprised_pikachu.webp.png
  
  Wait till you find out what's inside when you change Office files from .***x to .zip
- Unironically it will work as @Thorry84@feddit.nl and a bunch just like him has put in the work to Just Work^TM
- Why does this even work though? WEBP and PNG are very different file formats yet for some reason this has always worked for me as well. Is windows automatically converting the files? I haven't checked if changing the file extension changes the file size.
  
  WebP is an extended container around the RIFF file format, and contains the RIFF header info. So any container that is built off RIFF, or supports RIFF, can at least interpret the container data that is RIFF compatible and will lose anything that has been extended upon.

I'm working on a project which generates images in multiples sizes, and also converts to WEBP and AVIF.
The difference in file size is significant. It might not matter to you, but it matters to a lot of people.
Here's an example (the filename is the width):
Also, using the <picture></picture> element, if the users' browsers don't support (or block) AVIF/WEBP, the original format is used. No harm in using them.
(I know this is a meme post, but some people are taking it seriously)
- I've mentioned this topic in regards to animated images, but don't see as big a reason to push for static formats due to the overall relatively limited benefits other than wider gamut and marginally smaller file size (percentage wise they are significant, but 2KB vs 200KB is paltry on even a terrible connection in the 2000s).
  What I really wish is that we could get more browsers, sites, and apps to universally support more modern formats to replace the overly bloated terribly performing and never correctly pronounced animated formats like GIF with something else like AVIF, webm, webp (this was a roughly ~60MB GIF, and becomes a 1MB WEBP with better performance), or even something like APNG...
  Besides wider gamut, and better performance, the sizes are actually significant on all but the fastest connections and save sites on both storage and bandwidth at significant scale compared to the mere KB of change that a static modern asset has.
  This WEBP is only 800KB but only shows up on some server instances since not every Lemmy host supports embedding them :
  
  It's pronounced GIF
  
  Is that last webp animated? Asking because I know jerboa (Lemmy client) doesn't play animated images
  
  but 2KB vs 200KB is paltry on even a terrible connection in the 2000s).
  You still need to resize the images and choose the right ones (even if only for the device's performance).
  So we might as well do that small extra step and add conversion to the process.
  What I really wish is that we could get more browsers, sites, and apps to universally support more modern formats to replace the overly bloated terribly performing and never correctly pronounced animated formats like GIF with something else like AVIF, webm, webp (this was a roughly ~60MB GIF, and becomes a 1MB WEBP with better performance), or even something like APNG…
  Isn't that the users' fault? And of the websites for allowing those huge GIFs.
  Apparently browsers have supported MP4 for a long time.
  https://caniuse.com/mpeg4
- Literally just today solved a problem of delivering analytics plots over our internal chat system. The file size limit is 28Kb and I was just getting ready to say screw it, can't be done.
  Lo and behold our chat system that doesn't support svg does support webp. Even visually complicated charts come in just below the size limit with webp.
  
  Why 28Kb though?
- But why webp over jxl
  We already have the solution
  
  Because jxl is a bunch of bollocks. There's no way it will gain any support any time soon.
  
  https://caniuse.com/jpegxl
  
  Webp is supported in browsers. Jxl is not, unfortunately.
  (Well, I have the Firefox extension for it, but most people can't see them...)
  People should still use it tho, with the fallback of webp or avif
- I'm mad tho! I have technical issues with a format that works for hundreds of millions of users daily with the only impact being their website loads faster! RAGE!
- Just use jxl; it is better and not created by shitty googol.
- How is the size difference after gzip compression? Probably pretty much the same, but I wonder how large the difference is then. Since a lot of folk make sure the contents is gzipped when served to the user.
  
  Even using the highest compression levels, barely any difference. Not worth it
  If I understand correctly gzip, brotli and similar are best used to compress text.
  Font files also shouldn't be compressed. A TTF file compresses a bit, but a WOFF2 file will be even smaller than that (and WOFF2 also doesn't compress well). So might as well use WOFF/WOFF2
- https://xkcd.com/927/
- Is the quality the same? If so how do you know? I mean it's better, I'm just curious.
  
  Tldr: as we deal with a problem long enough we find more effective ways of dealing with it
  https://jpegxl.info/
  Has some info on what it does
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_XL
  Technically details might be more what you are looking for
  https://jpegxl.info/resources/jpeg-xl-test-page
  And a test page, if you don’t see jxl images then you should look at updating your browser
  
  For most of the images that I tried you can only see differences with the images side by side. It's really subtle.
  I do have one example for which my config must be bad, compresses a lot but introduces a lot of noise
- I don't know if the client is the issue, but I am using the Voyager android app and this image failed to load
  
  Works for me with Voyager on mobile.
  
  In case you still can't load the image, for the largest width the JPG file has 229.9KB, WEBP has 123.5KB, AVIF has 72KB.

As someone who sometimes needs a quick and dirty stock image for my work, webp is the bane of my existence. The work computers won't let me visit sites or install programs/extensions to convert the image, and my document processing programs have no fucking clue what to do with the format. There is an option in Microsoft edge to edit image, and it will dump the result as a .png which is the only workaround I've found.
- Samir ?
  
  I had a colleague code a FFT algorithm in Excel because that was the only deployment tool the customer would be allowed to use...
  
  loled at how the name of the Chinese guy is just "generic Chinese name" put into Google Translate
  
  Personal homepage is HTML 2.0 compliant - gold (and it keeps giving, too)
  Great content from ages ago
  
  They clearly hate printers, a safe assumption.
- I run Firefox portable with the extension "Save webp as PNG or JPEG". It has a button to copy directly to clipboard in the format of your choice.
  
  So much this. I've completely forgotten about this issue since I've installed that extension.
- If you're on Windows you can just open picture in MSPaint, and save it as PNG.
  Edit: You might need the WebP Extension though.
- I usually open it in paint and save as.
  
  I usually screenshot it in place with alt-print screen, paste it into paint, crop it to size, and save
- When I save as an image and it comes up as webp I just change the extension dropdown to all files and change the extension to .png in the filename box, hasn't failed for me yet
  
  Does that actually change the file, or will it still break when your software can't handle webp? Because I did that to a webp, but Firefox still shows it's a webp (in the tab name), probably based on magic byte. I don't have any viewers that can't display webp though, and I think they're all smart enough to go by magic byte.

.jxl is the better image format anyway
- Too bad it's being actively killed by Google. :(
- .jxl is still early. Webp is out for 14 years now and if support is missing its completely on the ineptitude of the client and nothing else.
- I feel like jxl is supported even less than webp though
  
  webp is completely supported by browsers I think now.
  Websites still get weird about it.
  JXL is supported by Safari and ummmmm mobile Safari.
- And it's not even a contest.
  BTW, I only found out recently and by accident that my stock Gimp 2.10 supports it!
  
  Dude update your GIMP

Since we're here and someone may find it useful, I use this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/dont-accept-webp/
- Fuckin why
  
  the situation the meme describes?
- i have a "save webp as" firefox extension that is good as well... sorry no link Im too busy
  peace and love peace and love
  
  sorry no link Im too busy
  Got a chariot race to win or something?
  That's what the movie Ben Hur was about, right?
  
  It's probably this one and it's fucking great and has a button to copy directly to clipboard in the format of your choice
- It's beautiful, thank you.

I love webp though
- wrong
- That is because you are ignorant.

The funniest thing is that even some of Google's own products don't accept Webp, like Google Voice.
- Shhhh just be happy Google Voice still exists, and isn't in the graveyard. Personally I'd take RCS over webp in Google Voice.
  
  I feel with you. The product idea is awesome, the implementation is so-so, and progress is backwards. It's heart-breaking, really, and so sad nobody has a real alternative.

Just don't let Google kill JPEG XL.
- Too late.

Stop trying to make .webp happen. It’s not going to happen.
- Maybe we should try to make it happen harder
- They use it on their server side to save data, they don't give a rip if we don't use it. If they wanted us to use it, they'd have cancelled it already.
- It's already happened.
  
  Found the Google guy
- this post is so git fetch https://github.com/webmproject/libwebp

Lemmy uses webp for profile pics.

"It works just like regular image formats, but it's fun."

No webp for me, just because Google is pushig it and that is suspect.
- Lol it's like 10 years old at this point. Not sure they're pushing it anymore. I think files that are half the size sell themselves

Yeah, man, gotta use mozjpeg.

How many people that are clinging to JPEG are also hating anti-AI people for being "Luddites"?
- It seems I pissed off the right kind of people yet again.
  "Anti genAI? Move on with the times, boomer!" and then "Why is image not deep fried and can't be opened in Real Shit Movie Editor 2003?". (Note: genAI is boomer technology.)

Now try to find somewhere which accepts apng or mng. I'll wait. ;)
- I have never heard of those formats.
  
  My point exactly.
- Just checked, our very corporate and much antiquated website does accept apng (sadly not publicly visible as it's b2b only). We do deal with photography though, so we do expect multitude of formats and mostly either pass them unchanged or just feed them to ImageMagick and forget about it. The bane of our existence is mostly DNG which Adobe breaks every year or so by introducing breaking spec changes.
  EDIT: Haven't found a place to even get an mng sample, though. Do you have any?
  
  MNG is a bit of an oddity; it was originally supposed to replace GIF but was itself replaced with PNG, Flash, and SVG. I have no such files available but ImageMagick can supposedly make one out of a number of PNG or JPG files if you're interested in toying with it.

Not the fault of the format
- No, it is googol's fault. Fuck googol.

What is being implied here? That Website A encourages you to download an image from them in WEBP format, but you cannot then upload that image to Websites B through Z because those sites do not support WEBP?
- Yes
- Not just websites, but software as well. Like image editing software. Which is quite bad.
- Here's the original clip from The Simpsons episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4XZxHXSHko

Tbh, for myself I either want lossless (eg. professional photographs for an app) or don't care about size, due to small volume (eg. my own pics and vids) and also kinda want the originals. And in today's time, bandwidth isn't lacking (for most people, including me). So everything's just a png.
- Oooh baby I like RAW
  
  Not just any RAW, but a multi exposure DNG!
  
  Always save as RAW
- As is in the name, the format is meant for web.

Relevant XKCD
- I mean... most websites don't use .bmp and that's for a reason... that reason being that it sucks ass.
- That’s basically how Lemmy clients work. No, there are 14 Lemmy clients! Ridiculous, we need one universal Lemmy client… there are 15 Lemmy clients.
  Btw, check out my Lemmy client
  
  @moseschrute
  Beautiful Lemmy client
  @Oaksey @memes

The real difference is between gif and animated webp... Even fewer places accept animated webp than normal webp and those that do often don't even show it right (looking at you slack emojis) which is a travesty as the file size difference is huge

- This has been an ongoing problem.
- Happened to me literally last week
- unless they recently changed it you can't add an image using GOOGLES image format in GOOGLES PowerPoint thing

I hate it so much. Just stick to jpg.