"Heads should roll": Congress erupts over Trump administration's Signal leak

I agree that "heads should roll"...literally.
Guillotines for a better America

And just like that, everyone has stopped talking about hillary clintons emails.
- The only thing Hillary has done in the last decade is lose Democrats elections. Seriously look at her staffer's win rate; they are poison to anything they touch.
  If she actually want's to benefit the center or left she will shut the fuck up.

Heads should roll? Maybe, if you ask nicely, the French may share some equipment and experience.

Make it happen Senate. It's literally your job. So fucking do it

Uh oh, they're expressing outrage now. I'm sure someone will suffer.

Really? For fucking real? This is where they draw the line?!
- It's bad, but not even close to the worst this admin has done. However, with proper screeching of NATIONAL SECURITY and shameful reminders about BUT HER EMAILS, this might be the first thing that Dems could sell to the Republican base as grounds to remove people. And let's be honest, that's who the Dems are really angling to persuade.
  Probably not tho, lol. Nothing will actually change. 🙃
- What line? Who? Everyone's been angry the whole time. Still no line has been drawn. Buttery males...
  
  The article claims that legislators on both sides were upset and I was making a joke about how the conservatives were okay with everything else up to this point.
  To be clear, if 13 GOP senators and as few as 3 house reps voted to remove Trump it would be done.

The worst thing is aside from being inept and careless, there is no chance they aren't selling secrets to anyone willing to pay.

Hegseth is now saying it didn't actually happen, matching their incompetence with dishonesty, the tone of this "merit based" administration

It's OK! He LEARNED his Lesson! Again!
-Susan Collins!

Living in the imperial core where a chat error is far bigger scandal than a genocide.
- well said. I'm surprised at the reaction towards this specific event.
  the administration is purging the federal government, rerouting tens of thousands of federal agents to enforce immigration (literally 80% of ATF is now focused on immigration. DEA, FBI, IRS, and more are all being recruited to help with immigration), illegally ignoring court orders, using a Stasi-like group of unmarked federal agents to intimidate with threats of criminal prosecution and force people into compliance (look at what happened at the SS office or the non-profit U.S. Institute of Peace), giving executive orders that are blatantly and explicitly unconstitutional (like the one to end birthright citizenship)
  that isn't even starting to mention the genocide happening in Palestine that is not only being condoned but openly embraced. we are arresting and attempting to deport individuals whose only crime is that they are anti-Israel. permanent residents are being denied entry into the country because they have a photo of a Hezbollah leader on their phone
  the administration is using coercion and threats to force over 60 universities (Colombia being the most visible) to change the things they are teach, abandon certain policies, suppress student speech, and dramatically increase police presence. all in the name of fighting "anti-semitism"
  it has only been a couple of months and right now Congress is making a stink about a text message
- Killing people in the middle east has been a source of income for us since the 1950s, a chat room error can only happen since the 90s, it's the new interesting thing for the media to gawk at as people are being killed.
- How dare you let the proles know we're bombing people for no good reason?

"should" is the key word. Trump should be in prison but he's not.

I think the important thing here is to not get distracted and focus on what's really important:
Hillary's emails.
- Buttery
  
  Buttery males?!
  
  Buttered Sausage

Democrats..."Why I oughta...If I only...boy oh boy are you ever...sigh".

The only person in real danger here is the journalist.
- And the yemenis but they've got the wrong skin tone for anybody to even mention. Genocide is completely normalized.

SLAMMED

Rep. Don Bacon (R-Neb.) criticized the use of non-secure systems, warning that adversaries like Russia and China could exploit it.
The singular problem with Americans doing a holocaust abroad is that another country might find out about it in advance.
I mean, just think for a minute. What if we wanted to bomb a Russian orphanage or a Chinese university? They could take advantage of our data insecurity to thwart us!
Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.) condemned the administration’s mishandling of classified information, saying it endangers national security.
We're carpet bombing people on the other side of the fucking planet. This is so far outside the scope of "national security".
Absolute Ghoul Nation.
- You're diminishing the term Holocaust by using it for something only remotely comparable.
  This specific incident, no. But the point is that if it happens for other issues more important domestically, it would be a national security risk.
  
  You’re diminishing the term Holocaust
  The US’s Role in the Hidden Genocide in Yemen
  The Arab state of Yemen has been locked in a civil war since 2014—a conflict that escalated significantly in March 2015, when a Saudi-led coalition began air strikes against the Houthi rebels. This coalition has been backed by the US and the UK, despite producing a humanitarian crisis that has left 8.4 million people on the brink of famine.
  ...
  Q. You write that “even if the US and UK do not intend for their support to be used in the commission of genocide, it is irrelevant to the question of whether they are complicit in the genocide.” What is the basis for assigning responsibility to a state in this case, if intent is irrelevant?
  In the case of Bosnia v. Serbia, the International Court of Justice established that shared intent is only relevant when considering whether a state conspired with another to commit genocide. For complicity, a state only needs to be aware that the aid it is providing to another state facilitates the crime being committed. In other words, if the US and UK shared the Saudi-led coalition’s genocidal intent, the aid they are providing would make them conspirators in the commission of genocide. Without shared intent, they are still complicit in the crime based on their continued material support, which has aided in the commission of genocide.
  With Trump's return, we've once again gone beyond simply facilitating Saudi mass killing of Yemeni residents and gone straight into the strategic slaughter of whole neighborhoods and villages.
  But the point is that if it happens for other issues more important domestically, it would be a national security risk.
  That the American media can only report on the exposure of the systematic mass murder of half the country's native residents as a risk to the United States illustrates the deep rot within the American psyche.

I'm shocked that the administration of "Put the big boxes of top secret docs under the bathroom chandelier" would mishandle secret war plans.

This is surprisingly a middle ground. I've been seeing people on the right just as pissed off about this. They have a point too in that there can be two truths here.
He could have leaked information and needs to be held accountable.
The claim that the information leaked as stated can be exaggerated.
Just be careful out there that they don't rope you into looking like idiots by being over dramatic.

Remember in 2016 when the entire magat crowd screamed that Hillary should be locked up for using a private, secure server that was only accessible to authorized individuals?
Surely they won't be hypocrites and try to brush this under the rug, or worse try to blame the editor-in-chief who had no desire to get wrapped up in this.
- haha, yeah, let's get them on this hypocrisy. surely this will be the last one, if we just point it down and take it to mom, everything will be set right. no real effort required.
  
  thank you. people just need to stop it. we all get it. now what are we going to do about it?
  no one is coming to save us.
  guns.

No heads will roll. What most stories miss is that the main reason they didn't use official channels for this (and most likely many of their other conversations as well) is that they don't want to comply with the Federal Records Act. They don't want there to be a record of a lot of the shit they're saying and doing and plan to do.
- This was literally in the instructional videos that Heritage made for new Trump staffers under Project2025. To do as little as possible that complies with the Federal Records Act. This is that video.
- Trump and his regime’s cabinet are truly evil and rotten to their core.
- Yeah, I know why the guy came clean, but it would have been so much more useful if we stayed on the chat. Really a big missed opportunity.
  
  OTOH he did stay on it as long as he could while still being able to protect himself by saying he didn't think it could be real and most likely a scam or attempt to entrap, plus the thread was basically over by then anyway.

But her emails!!!!
- 🧈🚹
- They didn't really care about her emails with that statement, it was her pronoun which was the problem they were crying about.
  
  I'd say 50/50 because she's a woman and a Democrat.
  Good thing she never wore a tan suit or used the wrong mustard, then Republicans would have done something drastic like storm the Capitol building!
- "Every accusation is a confession"
- I always thought they just liked buttery males.

Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.) condemned it with the words "Nerf THIS!"

Buttery Males!

Congress: Somebody should really do something to rein this administration in!
- The horrific absurdity is that even Trump was beginning sentences with "Somebody should ..." AFTER he became president.
  They are too used to the conspiracy-theorist, "humble-truth-finder" mindset EVEN when they are at the top.
  
  I think Trump may do it just for the plausible deniability it implies.
- Congress: why are the democrats silent?
  
  Marco Rubio: "Alright, everybody, line up and get ready for the shooting of our own feet."
  McConnell: "Aren't you guys going to do something about all this?"
  Dems: "Like what? Go on tour?"

Oh Im sorry, I thought you all quit.

The really sad thing is that in this scenario only Republicans matter. As long as they keep treating Trump as some kind of god-emperor, nothing will happen.
I was going to say "treating him as a king", but England and Canada have kings and would never put up with this kind of shit from a king. England hasn't put up with kings acting this way since the Magna Carta was signed.
- God-Emperor is literally what they called him on r/thedonald
  
  He's going to turn into a sand-worm?
  
  I might be wrong, but I recall the thedonald being pretty much a joke sub until it was hijacked by nazis and maggats.
  
  But that was just a joke hurr durr
  
  That's literally what his base thinks he is, they don't think he's godly they think he's ordained by God because Jerry Falwell endorsed him but that only happened because Cohen blackmailed him.

Devil's Advocate Hot Take:
This is an expression of power. An intentional leak to show that "We get to break rules, and you cannot." We see it as incompetence and abject hypocrisy, but it could be a purposeful leak because they don't care about being seen as hypocrites, they are about showing us they can get away with it. It could also be a Trial Balloon about the kind of wars they intend to wage.
/takes off tinfoil hat
I really think they really are just this stupid, but I think its at least worthwhile to consider the alternative, because a lot of what conservatives do is about using hypocrisy as a weapon and expression of power over others. They want us getting angry about such things, so they can can be cool and collected and say that we're overreacting because they're so calm while chuckling and sneering at us.
"But her emails!" Yeah they don't actually give a shit, they may just want to show they can get away with it. Much like Trump rejecting using a government issued cell phone in his first term and Bush "losing" millions of emails.
- This is an expression of power. An intentional leak to show that “We get to break rules, and you cannot.”
  Hanlon's razor applies I think:
  "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence or stupidity"
  I really think they really are just this stupid
  Yep. They fired all the adults that think things through and provide rigor for a reason so the only people left are children doing whatever they want ignorant of the consequences.
  
  Exactly. If they had wanted to intentionally leak classified information in order to move the overton window or something, they would have done it differently. They wouldn't have had the VP disagreeing with Trump. They wouldn't have actually leaked serious classified information, including the name of an active CIA officer. They wouldn't have leaked it to the editor in chief of the Atlantic.
  They fired all the adults that think things through and provide rigor for a reason so the only people left are children doing whatever they want ignorant of the consequences.
  For example, they fired anyone who would otherwise have said "Folks, this is not an appropriate communications tool for classified information. This needs to be shared in a SCIF".
  Anybody who knows better also knows to keep their mouth shut if they want to keep their job in this admin. And even if keeping their job isn't their priority, they know that if they speak up they risk being scapegoated, hung out to dry, and possibly killed by MAGA loyalists for daring to confront the king.
  
  No I'd say there's absolutely a good share of malice in the mix with incompetence and stupidity.
- There is exactly one political party that cares about hypocrisy.
  And it ain't the Republicans.
- As long as we're putting on our tinfoil hats, it's also possible that this was an intentional action taken against The Atlantic (or against Jeffrey Goldberg in particular). Trump's admin has plenty of reasons to want to silence that publication, and might've hoped that by "accidentally" giving Goldberg access, they could entrap him into committing a crime (mishandling of classified material, espionage, etc).
  With a little cooperation from the AG's office, presto! You've got one of your biggest critics in jail, and sent a message to other would-be whistleblowers.
  
  Reminds me of this from the Bush II years:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy
  The Killian documents controversy (also referred to as Memogate or Rathergate) involved six documents containing false allegations about President George W. Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard in 1972–73, allegedly typed in 1973. Dan Rather presented four of these documents as authentic in a 60 Minutes II broadcast aired by CBS on September 8, 2004, less than two months before the 2004 presidential election, but it was later found that CBS had failed to authenticate them. Several typewriter and typography experts soon concluded that they were forgeries. Lieutenant Colonel Bill Burkett provided the documents to CBS, but he claims to have burned the originals after faxing them copies.
  Anyway, interesting and worthwhile thing to consider.
- The first part is purely conjecture of their intent. It is irrelevant and unknowable. The facts are they leaked this to a reporter. They should be held accountable based on the facts, not their intent.
- It’s the Russian way. Everyone knows things are shitty but everyone also feels powerless about it. Learned helplessness as a political strategy and the basis for a society.
- Pretty good take. I agree they actually are this dumb, but not everyone involved is necessarily, so it’s wise to be aware of alternatives such as what you suggest.
- Being dumb is the meta rn

That's bad and all, but: They are using Signal?!
- Yes, what of it? Technically signal is fine from a security/leakage angle. Obviously not from a “govt communications” / public records angle, but there neither is direct verbal comms.
- Presumably to get around FOIA requests?
  
  With a journalist in the group there's no need for FOI requests. Think of the money saved!

They've got nearly four more years left to completely screw something up.
They keep messing with things eventually they'll cause catastrophe

I agree with those who think nothing will happen. Screw ups are an everyday thing for these clowns.
- It's like a bunch of stupid kids playing government.

Imagine that. You have unqualified amateurs in important government positions, and they don't know what they're doing.
- But they claim that they know better than the actual experts they displace

From alcoholics, to heroin addicts, to ketamine fueled Nazis, the Trump administration is running like a well oiled crack addict machine.
- That tracks with the Third Reich, actually

It's amusing watching Free Republic go hmm, errr, Atlantic = North Korea, err, fuck this is bad.

The so-called experts on Trump over at the Atlantic wrote a long and boring article on my cellphone usage that is so incorrect I do not have time here to correct it. I only use Government Phones, and have only one seldom used government cell phone. Story is soooo wrong!
--@RealDonaldTrump
- Way too coherent to be real.
  
  Also, he refused to use a government phone in his first term.
  
  when hes not on adderall or cocaine.
  
  And yet it is 95% real.
- It’s hard to tell whether this is whether this is real or not… I’m going to lean “not” due to the low amount of misused capitals, and staying on topic.
  
  Replace Atlantic with NY Times, and this one is real: https://www.thetrumparchive.com/?searchbox=%22government+phones%22
  
  You obviously have never heard or read anything by trump
  He's far more stupid and unreadable
- Way too coherent.. this is FAKE NEWS!

Russia and China could exploit it? They were probably in the fucking chat too they just did not write an article about it
- the most hilarious thing on display here is that the Signal protocol is not to blame. this was an OPSEC failure on the part of the feds. Signal is known to be secure but it's a grossly inappropriate tool for this use case.
  TLDR: not Signal's fault, the feds are just entirely too stupid.
  
  Definitely not signals fault, only reason they were using an inappropriate program to communicate is because they did not want it recorded in official channels.

Rebember when thebRepublicans had one investigation after another aboutbher private email server, even though nothing ever happened, previous Republican SoSs had done the same thing, and EVERY Republican onvestigation found she did nothing wrong.
Now the Republicans have done something a million times more dangerous, did it on an unsecure pplatform, and even incompetently invited a fucking reporter to read it all.
This is the chance to treat Republicans EXACTLY the same way they treat Democrats. EVERY Democrat should bite into this like a hungry dawg, and NEVER let go. Bring it up constantly, Gorilla Glue this to Hegseth, Vance, Gabbard, and the rest of those MAGA Traitors. They need to hear about, and be asked about this every single day, all day, for as long as they hold office.
And Dems shoupd never give up their demands that these people be terminated and prosecuted for their breach of security.
- did it on an unsecure pplatform
  Everything I’ve ever read about Signal seems to indicate that it’s pretty damn secure.
  That said, when you accidentally invite a reporter to the chat, E2E encryption loses a lot of its effectiveness.
  
  Signal is incredibly secure but it's the wrong tool for this application. you can have the best shovel ever and it still won't cut a wedding cake effectively.
  the Signal E2E algorithm is great but this was a gross OPSEC failure on the part of the feds, with the fact that they were using Signal being a huge extra embarrassing factoid (not to mention that if they'd have followed protocol, this would have never been possible).

They only have themselves to blame. If you're actively destroying OPSEC you have no reason to fucking cry.

Cue schumer saying that we shouldn't be hasty and should focus on bipartisan bills instead.
- Nah, this is the kind of thing that gets Democrat leadership animated: stuff that barely affects voters.

Oh, so they're upset now? What about, you know, when Trump stole a shit-ton of top secret documents that he very probably attempted to sell and at the very least definitely stored improperly and used a lot of lying and juggling to keep hold of? After he attempted to overthrow the government on Jan 6th. If they had moved faster, we wouldn't even be having this whine-fest, because he wouldn't have gotten re-elected from prison.
- I think what may make this different from that is chuds could see the fact that their king did whatever he wanted with those top secret documents as his right.
  This was incompetently handled active war planning. This can and should spook even those chuds
- If this is the thing that makes people realize Trump and his cronies are fucking idiots, despite all the other evidence we already have, I'll take it.

I read the Axios piece and skimmed the Atlantic original. This is some next level incompetence from this administration. It's bad enough that I actually hope that it's intentional as some kind of dick wagging move.

As a Democratic Leader I think we should EXCUSE this Leaking of Top Secret War Information and INSTEAD Focus on HER EMAILS to win BACK Democratic Voters!

Literally.

If (isConservative(fuckwad) === true) then "totally okay" else "not okay at all, impeach, repeal, reject";

"House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) offered more of a defensive response, arguing that the administration "has acknowledged it was a mistake."" THEY LITERALLY DIDN'T. You have one of the guys from the chats saying 'look how insightful this chat is we demonstrated impeccable leadership and no one was hurt (because the journalist was legit and didn't offer the info to America's enemies'

Good ad for Signal at least?
- Trump is probably all confused because he thought it was end to end encrypted and now he can't understand how the guy got the messages.
  He pulled the ol CC/BCC mistake.
- Pro: People learn about Signal Con: People learn about Signal in the context of a leak

Sure. Outraged over an inadvertent leak, but totally fine arming a country committing genocide, trying to strong-arm the victim of relentless aggression into giving up 1/5th of it's territory, letting disease spread freely in the nation, detaining people without charges, kidnapping people off the streets and deporting then to violent foreign prisoners without due process, weakening our defense industry, alienating every ally and partner we have on the planet, threatening to annex countries, starting trade wars, taking away women's healthcare, threatening the most vulnerable members of society, etc etc etc. All that other stuff is fine, but sure, let's raise holy hell over an inadvertent leak.

Beyond stupid, can you imagine how hard Putin is laughing at the 34 count felon right now?

~~"Non-secure systems" uh. No. Systems that aren't in the US control is what you mean.~~
As @asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world pointed out, Signal is insecure as in the access to the message wasn't controlled. It's like stripping naked in front of an open window with the lights on in your house. Yeah, technically, you are inside your home where it's private. But if you aren't pulling the shades everyone gonna see it
- I'd absolutely qualify it as non-secure in this context. Signal is E2E encrypted but there are no systems in place where it understands who's added to a chat and validates access based on ACLs or anything. Authorization policies are critical in securing systems.
  
  Man you're technically correct.
  The best kind of correct. Let me alter my comment and direct them to this, because I didn't even think that far.
- Isn't that important given the nature of what was being discussed?
  
  Yes. Access control is not in scope of Signal, I updated my comment to correct my statement.
  I would however enjoy being a fly on the wall when someone has to explain what application or system scope is to Trump.
- given that signal is what the us authorities encouraged citizens to use for privacy i assume that they do in fact have back door access to whatever they want
  
  Well, that would be impressive. Because it's open source, you can audit it yourself. The cryptography of it is secure. Unless the government has a secret way of breaking these encryption algorithms which we are unaware of, there is no backdoor.
  I've only dug into the user to user messaging, but I'm group messaging is just as secure.
  The only thing that was lacking when I read through it was key transparency. And that's a problem with every end to end encryption service. HOWEVER I know work is being done on implementing it. That will alleviate the fears of the wrong public keys being used (aka, you're talking to someone different than you thought).

Guy sold have kept quiet and just relayed everything straight to Yemen.

Heh. Same happened in Sweden some time back, but on a less serious issue, where a journalist was invited to a emergency meeting for the Liberal party over Signal.
- And in Germany although that at least required some actual hacking.

Lawmakers from bOtH pArTiEs
Reminder that Don Bacon barely won NE-2, a purple district that went for Harris, and shouldn't be used as an example when citing Congressional Republican outrage, because they're not actually outraged.

Everyone there should lose their security clearance and be fired for such an egregious lack of OpSec.

Any republican party member who stands up for this will be threatened with having their seat put up to a primary challenge. This is just a fact.
Remember, whatever the administration says can only be interpreted by fact by anyone who is part of the party. If you aren't in line you aren't in the party.
The undesirables will be shipped off to a camp far from the public's eye and shaven, beaten and humiliated.

So we are more worried about the privacy communications instead of how we are bombing Yemen. Great. Fantastic.
- Is it your first day in Amerikka or what?