Sanders: Harris Lost After Democrats “Abandoned Working Class People”
Sanders: Harris Lost After Democrats “Abandoned Working Class People”
“The American people are angry and want change. And they’re right,” Sanders said.
“The American people are angry and want change. And they’re right,” Sanders said.
I shut my mouth during the election and hoped for Harris to win. Fuck it though, the DNC has utterly failed us. From now on, I'm voting for someone that can offer real change. If the DNC tries to ratfuck another candidate like Sanders I'll write their name in and not give a fuck because the DNC gave us Trump, twice.
Now is the time to organize and drag the DNC off the corporate dick they're sucking.
My inclination has always been to not call myself a Dem, avoid affiliating with the party, and geneeally shit on them. However, I've been thinking, we should be trying to learn how the tea party took over the Republican party and doing that. They did an absolutely remarkable job
That said, there's a lot of differences, they're white in a white supremacist nation, for one
Hi, welcome to the PSL comrad.
Shaun said it better than I can (nitter link):
It's not that they don't want to institute these things. It's the fact that every Republican win shifts the Overton window, and makes them believe that they need to move more to the center.
"If the GOP are winning elections, then maybe this is what the American people want."
Also, none of us are the typical voter. Nobody on this forum, nobody popular on Twitter, nobody with a YouTube channel. None of us are the average mindless American that doesn't give a shit about politics, doomscrolling 4 hours a day, falling for whatever propaganda lands on their eyes, and are only voting because it's a team sport they get to play every four years.
I wasn't going to vote for Biden but I decided I'd hold my nose and vote for her, even after the whole Gaza thing at the convention.
But then she started palling around with Dick fucking Cheney.
Harris is guilty of running a losing campaign but she did not "pal around with Dick Cheney". The only issue they agreed on is Democracy over Fascism. The only connection between the 2 is that Dick Cheney endorsed Harris.
The electorate failed us. They saw a child rapist, and said cool I’m in! Eggs man!
the DNC has utterly failed us.
Bernie is right in that Dems need to focus on inequality and not identity politics. But the DNC didn't do shit. The DNC isn't a person with policies of its own. It was individual politicians that failed us.
the DNC gave us Trump, twice.
The DNC didn't give you shit. VOTERS gave you Donald Trainwreck.
I am SO sick of this "the DNC is a person that gives us things" shit. IDENTITY POLITICS is the problem. Not focusing on INCOME INEQUALITY is the problem. INDIVIDUAL POLITICIANS who don't understand these things are a problem. The DNC is simply an organization chosen by the primary voters every 4 years with nearly complete turnover in that time period. Focus on the right problem. Whoever wins the most primary delegates IS THE DNC. And if somebody like Bernie wins, THEY ARE THE DNC for the next 4 years.
I agree that identity politics is the problem. I use "DNC" as shorthand for "the politicians currently in charge of the DNC that are blocking any attempt at change", so I think we agree there too.
it's not Organization, it's all the people collectively known as Organization
:|
From now on, I’m voting for someone that can offer real change.
So, Trump or whoever the GOP offers?
If you're saying that a vote for a 3rd party is a vote for Trump, guess what? Voting for whatever the DNC offers up still got us Trump, twice. I'd rather vote my conscience if it doesn't matter anyways.
I love Bernie, always have and it's complete bullshit how badly they fucked him in 2016 and forced Hilary upon us.
That being said, this feels a bit too hand-wavy to explain Trump's victory. He won for dozens of reasons, not simply because the Democrats fielded a subpar candidate. Kamala and Biden both tried to appeal to Unions, defending them, and things like the climate change law and the CHIPS act are bringing lots of manufacturing jobs. The GOP has actively attacked unions, have passed laws in numerous states to weaken them. When Trump was president, his policies actively hurt industry in the long-term and passed a tax law that didn't benefit the middle class for more than a few years.
But yet... Blue collar people are tripping over themselves to vote for him. Why? Because they make empty promises while simultaneously gaslighting and lying to their faces, and they eat it right up. How do you convince people that the GOP hates them when they refuse to listen to reality?
You don't have to convince them that the GOP hates them. You need to put your money with your mouth is and actually introduce policy changes benefitting the working class and publicize them in a way that even the dumbest person can understand.
Politics are complicated. The economy is complicated. Even completely capable people don't invest the time to understand them because they don't need to know the details about either to get by in life. Especially true if they're struggling to get by.
We need Bernie Sanders policies with Katie Porter delivery.
Politics are complicated.
People are fucking stupid and care more about in-group good-feels than reality or policy.
Many Trump supporters like feeling like they are part of a larger group. That's it. That's really, deeply, stupid. Like, dogs are smarter than that. But they see the symbols and the faces and feel good about themselves.
Some people are deeply racist or sexist and such, but a lot of people just want to feel like they're part of a group.
You need to put your money with your mouth is and actually introduce policy changes benefitting the working class and publicize them in a way that even the dumbest person can understand.
But they did and they tried to repeat it for over a year leading up to the election, even before Biden stepped down. The MAGA cult is utterly irrational and literally live in an alternate reality. It's going to take a generation or longer for that hysteria to die out, if it even does.
As for getting the 10+ million former Democrat voters out, that's a whole other set of reasons.
Honestly, in my opinion, the US is just way too varied and spread out to cater to everyone needed in order to win under our current electoral college system. It's literally impossible without straight up giving empty promises/lies (which is what the GOP is doing). The next best solution is ranked choice voting and getting rid of the first-past-the-post system. Our country is just too large with too much variety for only two parties.
I love Bernie, always have and it’s complete bullshit how badly they fucked him in 2016 and forced Hilary upon us.
I love Bernie too. Yes the primary voters "forced Hillary upon you". That's how primary elections work. I am so sick of the Trumpian "elections are rigged" crap. That is Trump style shit that I'm sick of.
Why? Because they make empty promises while simultaneously gaslighting and lying to their faces, and they eat it right up. How do you convince people that the GOP hates them when they refuse to listen to reality?
This part is actually an excellent analysis.
Yes the primary voters "forced Hillary upon you". That's how primary elections work.
I see you forgot about the whole "super delegate" fiasco. But not only that, the DNC leadership made it abundantly clear from the beginning that they wanted Bernie to fall in line. There were a few times that Obama even called him to the White House. There is a reason he went Independent shortly afterwards.
They're always overconfident, and don't care about their base. They keep running after Republicans like the fucking Chaney's. You'll never convert a conservative, you just won't. They're set in their ways. You can be good to your base and make more of them go out and vote, but nope they're too confident with their "vote blue no matter who" and "we are not the other guy" bullshit. I voted Harris, because I had to, but this may be the last time I'll ever vote until we get an actual good human being like Sanders. Go ahead and bully me into "falling in line", take your shots. Fuck
Just vote PSL, and vote for the local elections you want, and any ballot measures. Have been since Obama as that’s when they swapped from “change” to “nothing will fundamentally change” as I cannot support a DNC that is actively working against the policies I believe in.
Might as well just fucking do that.
Go ahead and bully me into “falling in line”, take your shots
Nobody bullied you into "falling in line". You voted to raise taxes on rich people and corporations. Why the fuck would you NOT do that?
You can be good to your base and make more of them go out and vote,
What exactly does this mean? If it means "coddle people with attention" that's nonsense. But if it means put up some killer progressive policies that are highly popular and easy to understand that might work. e.g. "medicare for all". "make billionaires pay their fair share".
Nothing is ever really simple, but I am convinced there are two primary factors driving this mess. One is the incredible income inequality that none of our politicians on either side are willing to seriously address. The other is the destruction of our education system, resulting in people without the critical thinking skills needed to realize that their "enemies" are not each other.
I can't deny that my heart sank when I saw that picture of AOC glaring at Manchin smiling smugly in the podium, right after the asshole blocked a bill that would have supported working class citizens.
I also can't deny that in such an environment, change for the better can only be incremental, but that's only when people vote, which includes at the very least midterms and presidentials, and which at best includes primaries, off-year and special elections.
But once you get that change that you wanted - or the one you didn't want - it'll take decades of elections to change it back.
The people have shown that republicans can do things like block SCOTUS candidates for months deliberately, or repeal Roe vs Wade, or lead insurrections, or sell out your allies to the kremlin, with NO FUCKING REPERCUSSIONS.
You think they're gonna stop anytime soon now that they've tasted blood and it tastes sweet to their palate?
bOtH pArTiEs ArE tHe SaMe LoL aMiRiTe
We have a two-party system, and no world government, or galactic referees to appeal to. The repercussions can only come from the other political party, which had many opportunities and strong desire by its constituents, and just... didn't. Not even things that the President can do without Congress.
Ostensibly because they were afraid of losing elections, but, well, here we are.
Harris lost because 70 million people wanted a rapist and too many others didn't give a shit.
Immigration
Foreign policy
Military spending (goldilocks with this)
Deficit
Crime
Jobs
Economy/paycheck/gas
Values
Being 'in touch' with normal people/elitism
The problem is that if you don't ace all of these you have half the country whipped into a frenzy over the one thing you aren't good at.
Trump and Elon Musk of all people convinced >50 million idiots that celebrities have no place in politics and that Kamala has no fucking idea how normal people function. The people who blocked a border bill convinced >50 million idiots that Kamala doesn't care about immigration. While corporations are posting blowout earnings >50 million people were convinced that Kamala is the reason that gas prices are so high. Two people who talk privately with Putin somehow convinced >50 million people that they'll somehow bring about world peace.
The problem here is idiots and democrats setting their goal posts around their own idealistic views of how a fight should be fought.
If she catered to the working class she'd still get decimated over any other thing. Only when bodies are being stacked in trailers and people are wiping their ass with old T shirts do they stop and think "maybe we're being conned". They divide and they conquer.
"Come on man!", y'all remember that? Even when you have a Trump-like outburst Trump finesses you. Trying to win against Trump is like trying to have a funnier comeback against the coolest kid in junior high. I can't blame her
Democrats responded:
That's what you get when you hire old Biden strategists to your campaign. Those morons wouldn't know how to win a campaign with a step-by-step guide in front of them. They just love to be losers.
This is the third time they've fallen for this trick.
There's a Principal Skinner meme in here somewhere, but I dont know how to make memes.
I'm of the belief that even supporting the working class wouldn't have been enough to beat Trump.
The world isn't doing great right now, and there needs to be an unifying cause, an enemy to rally against and the right worldwide has done a good job to make sure it's nationalism with the enemy being a foreign element or non-local ethnic group (be it jews or immigrants or liberals that want to destroy the country, etc). Trump has leveraged that to great success, and Harris was trying to do that as well with some of her policies and campaign strategy.
If the opposition to the far-right ever wants to take back the lead, I feel like awakening the class consciousness once more is the correct play. Not a socialist movement (though that would probably happen as a result), but just redirecting the anger towards those who are actually responsible for the general decrease in the standard of living and those who have so much influence and interests that directly oppose the classes that are struggling. Granted, this would take a left-wing Trump who US might never get as long as politics are being controlled by big money and corporate interests.
No, they abandoned democracy for fascism. They're 1930s germans. Every fucking one of them.
Working class America abandoned itself now there will be leopards.