My liberals are convinced that china represents some kind of threat to them. I am baffled and frustrated.
My liberals are convinced that china represents some kind of threat to them. I am baffled and frustrated.
"China stole the f-35 plans!" So? Who care? Like literally who cares? What are they going to do, build air defense systems to counter america's strategic baby murdering capabilities?
"China is going to invade taiwan!" Again, whocares? Why do you give a single fuck about taiwan? And why do you think china is going to invade when y'all constantly talk about how china doesn't have the capacity to invade and taiwan would just blow the chip fabs anyway? And china has it's own mature chip technology? So why do you think they're poised to invade when you ourright say they cannot do that and have no incentive to, they're not producing military gear capable of invasion, and their publicly stated goal of peaceful integration has been consistent with their praxis for, what, fifty goddamn years?
"China is spying on us through tiktok!" One, no they're not, and no credible source believes they are, or even that they could. Two, senior us officials have openly stated they are trying to seize control of tiktok because it exposes kids to information outside of us control. Three, who care? What the fuck is china going to do to harm you? Why are you worried about china enough to talk about it constantly, but you're totally dismissive of five eyes very real and publicly proven surveillance of your lives, which five eyes does use to cause you real material harm?
How can people this fucking smart be this fucking stupid when the state department sprinkles a little racism on their propaganda? Oh, and also, i was told today that wikipedia says china is doing uighurcide and they don't need to read the un report because they skimmed it and then they start moving the goalposts from genocide to human rights vioations and bitching about prison labor which, again, you fuckers never talk about the us prison slave system that actually effects your life and that you could actually do something about? Fuck's sake this shit is so goddamn frustrating. These people are smart as hell but as soon as they see an epicathic fold they turn in to the fucking john birch society.
It may be overstated, but it's legitimately the media/social media pushing this shit. It's all funded by US-backed think tanks etc., sometimes even directly funded by the CIA's NGOs. People are unable to critique the reporting on China because there's no one in the media spheres (msm or the YouTube commentator sphere) actually against a Hot war with China.
And i tried to show them that Blinken has more or less literally said that the purpose of the tiktok ban is to bring it under us control and they just don't hear it, don't see the man's own damn words, it's astonishing?!
We're not at war with China. China is our largest trading partner. Realistically we could never be at war with China because our lives would be terribly hard without them. Stop wanting to be at war with China. Do they realize what that means???
Nearly everything is made in China or has parts or materials from China.
Actual war would shut down pipelines for medicine, consumer electronics of every kind, appliances, tools, reagents, etc
I don’t know if people realize how reliant we are on China.
Say what you will about Deng Xiaoping as a Communist, inducing the West to tie its entire economy to China by appealing to capitalist greed was a masterstroke of geopolitics.
I think some people unironically believe that manufacturing can be brought back to the West with the wave of a hand. Never mind that you need to build the factories. Never mind you have to retrain a generation of people who have lost institutional knowledge about manufacturing. Never mind the fact that China produces the most machine tools of any nation in the world. Just manifest it with thoughts and prayers.
It’s a skill gap the size of an ocean at this point.
There's a confusion about China. The popular conception is that companies come to China because of low labor cost. I'm not sure what part of China they go to, but the truth is China stopped being the low-labor-cost country many years ago. And that is not the reason to come to China from a supply point of view. The reason is because of the skill, and the quantity of skill in one location and the type of skill it is.
The products we do require really advanced tooling, and the precision that you have to have, the tooling and working with the materials that we do are state of the art. And the tooling skill is very deep here. In the U.S., you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I'm not sure we could fill the room. In China, you could fill multiple football fields.
- Tim Cook
More importantly it would need to be PROFTABLE. In a capitalist country institutions aren't going to do shit if there's no profit involved. The only way this would work if they forbade US "allied" countries to trade with China and then forced them to buy US goods, and ideallly cripple their productive capacity at the same time (see: destruction of Nordstream 2). In this world still the US and any countries aligned with the US will quickly become quite poor in terms of living standards.
Just to be clear, this one particular argument is exactly what was said before the great war.
It's never been an argument against war. It assumes rationality and intelligence in our leaders.
No question, washington's constant warmongering and provocations are fucking unbelievable. They're trying to drag the whole world in to wwiii and idk what they even think they hope to achieve.
Oh, and then there's the one literal fucking fascist who hangs around who kept yelling "never again" about uighurs while expressing complete and utter contempt for Palestinians and treating NATO as a divine force for good. Blocked that fucker. Turns out he was also, i cannot make this up, a kmt dead ender who believes the roc is the legitimate government of china. No comment on whether he's going to support the roc's invasion and conquest of mongolia when they somehow magically seize control of china.
Permanently Deleted
Turns out he was also, i cannot make this up, a kmt dead ender who believes the roc is the legitimate government of china.
Sounds like a CIA-funded paid poster. These people exist in Taiwan but they're all ex-KMT soldiers and over 80 years old. They don't go shitposting on the internet, especially in English.
No, he's just a fucking Canadian.
China does represent a threat to them. China is the only place that can actually turn the treats off
InshaAllah I may live to see the Chinese blockade of America. Mother of all sanctions.
My funkos!!!
Liberal concern about China is to me basically the same as liberal concern about trans women in women's sports. Did you know a single fucking thing about this topic before you opened your mouth? Name one women's sports team in any sport. Shut the fuck up.
It does, just not in a way they understand.
China's ascendence spells the end of US hegemony; the endless shower of superprofits is coming to an end. This will destroy the bourgeoisified lives of US liberals, either kicking them back down into the working class or kicking them into the reserve army of labor. Persistent inflation, massive private debts, decline of the administrative state and the meagre protections it provided, and an end to the Grand Bargain. It's over.
They're just reacting from their own class interests, even if the specifics are being filtered through State Department nonsense.
It's not all China, of course. The inherent limits of growth meant bourgeoisification couldn't be sustained forever.
Why the fuck would China want to steal the plans for the F35? It's a massive failure, a flying flaming dog turd. They don't need special knowledge or technology to counter it. Fighter jets half a century old wipe the floor with it in mock battles.
Okay, at the risk of being that person, the F-35 loses in a stand up fight because it's not designed in a doctrine sense to get in stand up fights. On paper it's designed to leverage its status as a stealth fighter to avoid those stand up fights by either avoiding them entirely or get one of the most important things in a A2A engagement, getting the first missile salvo off.
So regardless on how actually good the F-35 is, having it's blueprints to have the knowledge on how to counteract it is still incredibly useful in case it happens to be very good for what it's designed to do.
Why the fuck would China want to steal the plans for the F35?
So they can build one and laugh at it
it's just unoriginal CIA propaganda. it's filled with a bunch of unimaginative and fairly unintelligent ppl with no morals. once you recognize how they do things you start seeing it everywhere.
But it is known that the Chinese brain pan isn’t capable of innovation so if they have jets that are peer-competitive with the west then they obviously stole it
Why the fuck would China want to steal the plans for the F35?
even if the final product package is garbage, it probably has some insightful details on constructing a modern military aircraft.
also useful for designing anti-f35 technology.
Yeah I'm seeing China derangement syndrome more and more, it's wild. Kind of disturbing how easily so many people are propagandized into thinking Red Dawn is real life but with Chinese paratroopers. New type of guy: AR-15 guy. 70% of his bougie militia kit was manufactured in China.
A lot of things are getting me about this, but one of them is i'm saying "china is not a threat to you" and this fascist starts frothing at the mouth yelling "not a threat? China's not a threat?! Let me list all the ways Nato can kill chinese people inside china with our superior weapon systems! You still think china's not a threat? All of their weapons suck and we can murder tons of chinese! That isn't a threat to you?" And it's like jesus fucking christ what the fuck dude?
if someone is crying about China stealing F-35 plans - which is literally just standard military procedures. Like what do you expect a superpower rival to do? Not steal military secrets of their enemies?? - but they're completely oblivious to the fact that China produces a significant amount of raw materials and components for the western military, they're unserious about their understanding and only care about what CNN/FOX tells them like 20 years ago.
How can people this fucking smart be this fucking stupid when the state department sprinkles a little racism on their propaganda?
Being smart and being racist aren't mutually exclusive
oh they stole the plans for a boondoggle plane? basically a self own if they actually try to build one isn't it.
The spooks found out where the plans were held by tapping phones and listening for riotous laughter.
Posts like this show you haven't been a liberal or active in liberal spaces for a very long time because you've completely forgotten how they think.
That's a compliment, I guess
Yeah, China is a banned topic amongst my libs because it always leads to arguments. At least that means they don't casually badmouth China every conversation, because they've learned I will call them out for it.
I mean, yeah, guilty. I only engage with any of them on this beacuse I care about them and it hurts me to see them like this. : (
They sound like they have a lot of trust in the state and the media.
My Chinese friends are convinced that they don't want to pose some sort of threat to Western liberals. I am baffled and frustrated.
Want me to send some transcripts? I ask "why is china a threat to you?" And they start screaming about how good nato weapons are for killing chinese and it's like... they're salivating for massacring chinese people and they somehow think that their lust for destruction constitutes a threat from china. in sone way i absolutely cannot ascribe rationality to.
I sincerely believe people who don't have extensive, face to face experience with American's do not and maybe cannot understand how fucking awful our people and leaders are, the complete dehumanization of others, the absolute drive to steal everything at any cost including the destruction of the planet. I just don't think most people think like that, and vis versa, I don't think Americans can understand taht most of the world doesn't think in zero-sum terms of absolute conquest, submission, and extraction.l
I find self-defense very threatening
I don't follow these things very closely, but I can't see China invading Taiwan anytime soon, it's not in China's interest, and it would still be super costly. It's better to play the waiting game and let a political and economic solution manifest itself.
I suspect there will eventually be a time where Taiwan sees that it's coupled to falling stars in the West and seek peaceful reunification.
Given that there's been a harsh lesson of the dangers of outsourcing, it's unlikely they'll fortify the Taiwanese economy with another huge, critical industry any time soon.
Once the re-onshoring has reached a sufficient level that the West no longer NEEDS TSMC plants, the strategic value for the island plummets. The current security guarantees are pretty damn expensive, especially considering that the leading countries backing them have some crippling long-term risk factors (failing educational systems in 2025 are hardly the recipe for 10% annualized growth in 2040)
There is no "re-onshoring" of chip fabrication in the US. The TSMC plant in Arizona is a joke.
I suspect there will eventually be a time where Taiwan sees that it’s coupled to falling stars in the West and seek peaceful reunification.
This is Chinese nationalist propaganda and it doesn't even make any sense. Even if Taiwan theoretically become as poor as let's say Burkina Faso why would they want another country (the obvious aggressor) to take over? Has that ever happened in the history of humans?
I live in Taiwan and to quickly summarize, they will never invade. It's literally a "face" thing for them. Historically, China gave 0 shits about Taiwan until the KMT losers started to claim it when they lost their war. It's funny seeing Chinese nationalists get pissed off over Lai's milquetoast statements. I would strongly prefer China adopt Russia's rhetoric style which is more FACT BASED. Call Taiwan out for funding ASPI. Call the US out for forcing Taiwan to pay protection money by buying useless arms.
"China is spying on us through tiktok!"
even if true, China isn't going to show up where I live and send me to prison if I watch the wrong videos online.
I have been unable to slam that through their skulls. The us government security forces murdered a man almost on my doorstep and set off a global uprising that resulted in god knows how many deaths across the world, they made my city the most heavily occupied by military forces in the world to protect a cop, but we need to worry about china.
In the US, there are people who do want to oppress people for their online activity, and facebook/youtube are probably happy to sell that data.
China's ability to spy on you though TikTok is the exact same as the US's. China can force bytedance to give them data or install RATs because bytedance is a Chinese company (kind of, it might be a bit complicated if bytedance resists). However, they store all US user data in Oracle serves in Virginia and Texas. US authorities can gain physical access to the infrastructure, demand Oracle to provide access or install RATs or demand USDS (a US based subsidiary of bytedance) to comply. The US had the same ability to spy on your TikTok as China does.
China has been ramping up their rhetoric in Taiwan lately so I get the worry. They passed the law to threaten separatists with death, been ramping up drills, and made that statement condemning the new Taiwan president or prime minister or whoever they have for being more separatist. As for why worry, it's because they will drag the rest of us into war with them, because the US feels obligated to defend Taiwan. I'm sure I'm not the only one tired of the US roaming around helping places like Israel, South Korea, and Taiwan while we could have health care.
Also, I remember a lot of people saying Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine. I wasn't in hexbear when they did though, so not sure what the consensus was here.
Everything else I agree with, though. The anger people have had over Tik Tok has been really aggravating. I hate it but equally as much as Instagram or Twitter. It's not special. People just have been ramped up more because of racism.
they will drag the rest of us into war with them, because the US feels obligated to defend Taiwan.
The US is the one dragging everyone towards war. They're not going to "defend" Taiwan. They're going to make sure as many Chinese people (on either side of the straight) die. While continuing to make weapon profits by indebting Taiwan (like with Ukraine, obviously).
I'm sure I'm not the only one tired of the US roaming around helping places like Israel, South Korea, and Taiwan
The only nation here they're helping is Israel, since it's a white settler colonial state that serves US interests just being the way it is. They're absolutely not helping anyone in South Korea or Taiwan.
while we could have health care
It isn't either/or and American imperialism makes money for the US. Of course the labor of Americans that goes towards designing and manufacturing weapons could go towards something else, but that stuff ultimately makes money for the US (and Americans) in the form of imperial power and subjugation around the world.
Plus you should care about American militarism because it's evil and hurts people in other countries, not because it takes away from making someone on the aggressor's side's life easier.
Taiwan is WAY too rich to go to war.
They passed the law to threaten separatists with death
This seems pretty normal for any state to enact lol
The whole thing seemed to have heated up with Pelosi making an official visit when China vehemently warned her not to make an official visit. I think everyone was wondering what China's response was gonna be, some actually thought they were gonna shoot Pelosi's plane, but when she left they announced they were gonna do navy drills around Taiwan. The separatists and every Western politicians just keep pushing China, even Liz "lettuce lasted longer" Truss decided to visit Taiwan.
I wasn't in hexbear when they did though, so not sure what the consensus was here.
I remember the consensus was peaking at "bro it's totally not gonna happen" then next day they're just doing it
Yeah, a lot of us got owned that day.
They passed the law to threaten separatists with death, been ramping up drills, and made that statement condemning the new Taiwan president or prime minister or whoever they have for being more separatist.
This is just trolling from them though and I say that from a Taiwanese perspective. Taiwan is already independent and they're larping that they own Taiwan. Any high profile people that troll China, or even make mild factual statements about Taiwan, makes them lose face, which causes them to lash out.