When Palestine is liberated, would you accept Israeli "refugees" in your country?
When Palestine is liberated, would you accept Israeli "refugees" in your country?
Firstly:
Okay now for the post.
When Palestine is liberated, I think the vast majority of settlers will either be [redacted] or forced out of the region. There is no way that any Arab in the region will accept having a settler in their land, and the settlers know this. The plan will have to be a mass exodus for the west, both for their safety and livelihood (I can see many going into ghoul industries like defense, tech, and police training).
That being said, how would you react if your country decides to accept settlers? Would you support the move? If they were going to live in your community/ neighborhoods how would you feel?
I think the vast majority of settlers [from the overthrown Zionist entity] will either be [redacted]
The idea that "Arabs" are going to slaughter so-called "Israelis" on mass is just racist Zionist gobbledyremoved that you're taking way too seriously. The settlers do not "know" that they will get "redacted", they've been propagandized to believe that this will happen. I can assure you that this is in fact not going to happen, any more than the end of apartheid saw a mass slaughter of white South Africans nor the end of Rhodesia saw a mass slaughter of white Zimbabweans — even if (frankly, especially since) the Zionist settlers comprise about half of Palestine's population last I remember. Like, there's a reason why the DDR had so many former Nazis as bureaucrats, right? They denied the Nazis institutional power, but when there's so many of them so thoroughly integrated into every nook and cranny of society, then you pretty much just have to put them to work somehow, right?
So Palestinians are not going to Thanos snap the better educated half of their homeland's population right after a devastating conflict and their own people's maiming and genocide; nor are those settlers going to throw away their lives in the name of an ideology which literally collapsed before their very eyes. Do not forget how incompetent the IOF is at "fighting" anyone but children armed with sticks and stones: the settlers "fight" not out of genuine commitment, but out of a bought, fickle, and above all else temporary loyalty which will (for most of them) not withstand any sort of genuine threat to their lives. The settlers only believe the propaganda and ideology they're fed as long as they're materially incentivized to do so; once the going gets tough they'll freeze up and whimper like the cops in Uvalde.
Kill the settler-colonial dynamic and you've pretty much already killed the settler, is basically my thinking.
how would you react if your country decides to accept settlers? Would you support the move? If they were going to live in your community/ neighborhoods how would you feel?
I myself am the European-born child of a former settler born on occupied Turtle Island, so I see no reason whatsoever why I should not welcome so-called "Israelis" with open arms to this country, provided that the "Israelis" do not act like a bunch of goddamn "when-wes". If I were in charge I'd even mandate reeducation and perhaps some employment restrictions.
But yeah, we have to remember that a major reason why fascists have supported Zionism throughout history has been to decrease the Jewish populations across the world, and so to openly welcome Jews to different countries — even Jews who were born settlers — would mark the supreme failure of antisemitism, of fascism, and of Zionism.
All in all I think I'd hold settler-refugees from the Zionist Entity to the same standards as anyone else: hiss at the ones who engage in reactionism and show no remorse, the ones who work in ghoulish industries or get "paperclipped" as someone else said, the ones who hoard wealth... But if you as a former Zionist settler now find yourself in an unfamiliar country, working a regular nine-to-five job (or perhaps struggling to find one), and you're for the first time in your life being exposed to honest to God actual antisemitism instead of the propagandized caricature of antisemitism you were taught in school growing up, and you're actually experiencing second-hand citizen status due to being a refugee... Then yeah, I think you deserve whatever help you need, in the same way as, like, former convicts with just absolutely horrifying criminal records.
Colonialism first asks of colonizers to throw away their empathy, to practically throw away their humanity. Colonizers are then able to regain their empathy and humanity by engaging in anti-colonial struggle, and often this might happen precisely because the circumstances push them to, right?
I have heard people argue that so-called "Israelis" are basically just treated as 100% white and so will comfortably fit in any country in the Global North... But I don't think this is necessarily the case. The "Israelis" who are useful to the satanic machinery of the Global North, yes, the ones who are wealthy, the ones who go to the rest of the Global North under the implicit understanding that they'll "go back" or at the very least won't get "too numerous"... I think that once it's clear to the West that it needs to switch into a neocolonial rule of liberated Palestine, that it will focus on accruing as many refugees as possible, to make them into another steady stream of cheap labor, and this will include former Zionist settlers. Compare this to the situation with Ukrainians right now: on the one hand "brave martyrs for Western democracy fighting against the Asiatic hordes" or whatever, and on the other hand "your degree ain't worth shit here, something something Ukrainian strippers, something something you can be sent to the frontlines at any moment".
The children of former Zionist settlers after the liberation of Palestine are practically guaranteed to be normal people, in any case.
.02 and probably wrong at points
100% the only sane take. The revenge fantasy of killing millions of people is really gross.
I have heard people argue that so-called "Israelis" are basically just treated as 100% white and so will comfortably fit in any country in the Global North... But I don't think this is necessarily the case.
I can add a bit to this. Israeli demographics are a bit odd by western standards. They consider anyone that is Jewish to be an Israeli Jewish citizen regardless of ethnic background. Other citizens are "Arab Citizens of Israel" which means Palestinian and either of Muslim or Christian background. So Palestinian Jews in Israel are considered Jews under the law despite their former historical neighbors being considered in the second-class citizen category. Part of what makes that interesting is that the Mizrahim and Sephardim Jewish ethnic groups which do make up significant enough portions of Israel's total Jewish demographic are demonstrably not "white" and are systematically treated accordingly by Israelis of Ashkenazi background. The Israel politic and society favors the generally wealthier Jewish people of European origin. Thus, a lot of the people in the IOF doing the genocide are also not "white" people, and would not pass as white in the west. Israeli society is really, really fucked.
I think this is also important relevant to the idea that Jewish Israelis are entirely white European settlers with a place of origin to "go back to". Many have heritage in the middle east and were essentially forced out of their countries. Even a lot of the Ashkenazi population doesn't have a clear country that they are from.
Great addition, I had considered mentioning this but by the time I was done writing my first comment the sun had already gone up
Good post. I agree with everything.
From a strategic point of view it would also be wise to preemptively offering settlers a way out. If they know that going to Europe is an option it would counter zionist propaganda about "having nowhere else to go" and make giving up the occupation of Palestine easier.
I would like to add though that accepting ex-'Israeli' migrants doesn't mean that you have to accept the crimes they have committed. Welcoming ex-settlers should be paired with a close partnership with Palestinian authorities to identify and extradite war criminals and extremists to face criminal charges in Palestine.
Domestic security agencies should also closely monitor gusano activity, preventing revanchist organising and racism among resettled ex-settlers.
Absolutely, absolutely.
The idea that "Arabs" are going to slaughter so-called "Israelis" on mass is just racist Zionist gobbledyremoved
It's the morally correct and obligatory thing for the Palestinians to do. But realistically they're too compassionate to do it.
morally correct and obligatory
too compassionate to do
i think you're at a profound impasse if the alleged "morally correct" decision directly conflicts with the morals of the people in question that would carry it out
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Unfortunately I don’t get a choice. There are already IDF war criminals attending the university I work at. And they already had US citizenship.
They're gonna get Operation Paperclipped. Hope and pray that your locality will not decide to just put an IDF dude in charge of your police force like the Nazis they put in charge of NATO and NASA.
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most of them probably already have citizenship in the US or some other safe, wealthy global north country where they'll fit right in
I don't think dual citizenship numbers are out there, but this site claims 10% and the highest estimate I've seen looking around is 1 in 8.
https://www.dualcitizenshipreport.org/dual-citizenship/israel/
Personally, sure I would take them as refugees, maybe they can feel like second class citizens for once. (Not that I think refugees should be treated that way, but that's just the reality)
Yeah, I imagine they will mostly resettle in
, and whether or not I support it won't change that. But, I guess it's better them being here than in Palestine. Already chockablock with genocidal crackers as is.
This is a weird question. There is absolutely no reason to claim settlers would be killed, that isn't what Hamas is fighting for, and they have repeatedly said their opposition is to Zionism not to Jews. To suggest otherwise is the same kind of scaremongering that was used to defend the extension of apartheid in South Africa. In all likelihood Israelis who wanted to stay in Palestine could stay, they just couldn't live in an apartheid ethnostate anymore. As in the case of other former settler states, many would choose to leave of their own accord though
I think someone said something like 10% have dual citizenship somewhere else, so those people are definitely leaving anyways
better here than in occupied palestine. yeah it's going to suck to have a giant inflow of reactionary shitheads, but they belong here and are of the west. Better here than invading other countries.
I'd like to know what the effects of reeducation on people like that would be. I think people can be redeemed to a point. I just don't know what that point is and when we would know if it was reached.
Other than that, yeah. Settlers off of indigenous land and back to their actual home countries.
I honestly don't care, as long as they fuck off and leave the Palestinians alone
Israelis except the Zionist leadership and fascists would be fine. A ton would flee back to their own countries but there would be a lot of them unable to do so and will stay around Palestine. I want liberated Palestine to be a secular nation which respects all ethnicities and not to down the same path as Israel.
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The existence of the state of Isn'treal is a product of The West's collective guilt about turning away the MS St.Louis. Its existence is a tacit admission that they'd do it again.
Was there a mass exodus of Anglo South Africans in 1990 or whatever?
yeah they went to Israel lmao
Hope this time around the PRC turns them away. White south african expats are a fucking scourge.
SerpentZA lmao
There was a mass exodus of French people from Algeria. They just became middle class people in Southern France.
better comp, ty
Yeah, sure. Give them a re-education, keep them on a watch for a while for any terrorist activity. Don't let them near jobs that give them any power. Police, politics, teaching etc.
I'm not a fan of fighting genocide with genocide unless there is no other option.
When the settler regimes occupying Zimbabwe and South Africa fell, the apartheid hardliners fled to Israel. Is there any other ethnostate they could flee to this time round?
no official ones, but there's a few settler colonies left
Morocco
Isn't exactly "refugee" status when they have dual citizenship and just move back to PA, where they where born and raised...
on the safeground is where they spent most of their days
when a couple of humus who were up to no good
started makin' trouble in their "nation"hood
they got in one bitter fight and their bibi got scared
and said "You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in the USA"
Yes, send them back to the Great Satan (where they came from).
Right but like, everyone in the Great Satan also has to be sent to reeducation tbh
Yes.
And tried for warcrimes as a precondition for entry.
Yea that's chill, kinda weird to say no if you live in a developed country tbh
They have immense reparations to pay to Palestine not to mention neighbouring countries, such as Lebanon in particular.
Unironically bring back the gulags.
It's just another chicken in the large flock coming home to roost. Maybe their kids will grow up alright once they aren't marinating in apartheid sauce.
If they aren't fascists, sure. If they are, they should get the pit with all the other fascists.
I don't see the purpose of asking this question when Israel is still extant and capable of surviving while Palestine burns. Israel hasn't surrendered because they can do this attrition warfare longer than Gaza can hold out, despite any gains or advantages Ansrallah and Hezbollah have over Israel at the moment. Israel and the US are both willing to escalate in calculated and measured ways.
Considering that Jewish Israelis are 70% of the population, it's likely that they will stay in the long term. Before Oct 7th, there was already a sort of exodus of Israelis to Europe/US because of lack of economic opportunity, high rents, low wages; reasons people leave their country as it is. Israel is not really stable without US support.
Bonus question: Would the term "refugee" be an appropriate descriptor for them?
Personally I wouldn't use the term to honestly describe them, but I don't know what other word to use.
What's the Hebrew equivalent of gusano
I know that this is a rhetorical question but if you're asking what the Jewish term is for the group of Jewish people who turn on their fellow Jews and who adopt the role of functionaries and enforcers of concentration camps, the legitimate answer is "kapo".
Zionist
That depends on how the downfall of Zionism is going to play out. If they are just mad about no longer being the master race they're not refugees deserving of special protection, just sore losers. If, on the other hand, retaliatory violence erupts and Palestine tries to expel Jewish residents then many of them can possibly be considered to be refugees.
They should all be deported by Germany. This is not based on any practical or reasonable principle. It is just the funniest outcome.
Give them Bavaria as a consolation prize.
I'd like to give them Alsace-Lorraine. The French and German ruling class has been slaughtering each other's working-class soldiers for centuries over that miserable little patch of land. Making it a three-way fight would be hilarious.
I don't think there will be mass expulsion actually, and I don't think that would be a good or sustainable thing if there was.
I don't think settlers would want to live in a country where the people they used to attack now have power over them. It's just basic human self preservation at that point. Whoever can leave, will leave
I'll pretend to accept them and then cruelly sabotage their lives
Gee, would I be amenable to refugees who invaded and expelled/slaughtered the people of the last country they were refugees in?
I'm going to say yes, but only because we're powerful enough not to let it happen to us.
I feel like using the term refugees to describe the settlers is problematic since it gives credence to right wing myths about climate and war refugees, but that's just me.
europe is not even half full
I'm lathing some of them being weeabs and moving to japan only to get
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Oooo this ones surface level interesting from a 'flush out the anti-semites' point of view. In ww2 my country turned away Jewish refugees and sent them back to the gas chambers. That was 100% a war crime in my mind. My country also accepted a bunch of Nazi refugees afterwards. During this conflict, my country hasn't accepted any amount of Palestinian refugees. It seems that my government hasn't learned about morality yet. I would want Israelis coming here to go through some kind of deprogramming. I've seen so much about how their society has warped how the average Israeli thinks. It's so sad, but I also don't want that hate here.
canada?
Is the dumpster fire I mentioned that obvious?
No lol
I wouldn’t because we’d get the extreme right-wingers with how heavily Guatemala simps for them. Only plus side is that they wouldn’t be caught dead in my region and would likely stick to the capital or some bougie city like Antigua.
