It's Time to Bring Back the Steam Machine
With all the layoffs and industry volatility, I think now is a great time to consider bringing back the Steam Machine, with a few changes.
I'd like the Steam Machine to come back with the addition of being an HTPC. Why? Because Valve is big enough to arm wrestle streaming services into releasing an official app.
I basically want a user customizable, privacy respecting Xbox.
Htpc?
Home theater PC
Way back when netflix was new, windows had a Home Theatre edition of windows.
Beautiful 10ft UI, worked with tuners, could record from them, had no issues dealing with auto-ripped DVDs and had a native netflix integration.
Then netflix pulled out, but windows HTPC was still pretty decent.
Nowadays, it's basically "you have to pay for everything" with a smart TV or a set top android box, maybe lucky enough to have a tuner in it.
Or it's high seas.
I don't think there is really a middle ground.
Home Theater PC.
Had to look it up. They mean Home Theater PC.
Home theatre PC
I thought that meant High Tower PC
They are like 1-2 little steps away from a very good HTPC Steam Deck.
Like if they could just take a little time to make Firefox work 100% in game mode (right now it's not quite there, like you can't go full screen with videos) and make controllers just a little more comfortable for browsing and it'd already be there for me.
That would be cool.
I'm not sure what else they would need to do. You can just install Plex or Jellyfin on your Steamdeck right now, and you've got yourself an HTPC. It works great!
What are the missing pieces you're still looking for?
What are the missing pieces you’re still looking for?
The addition of JF or Plex, even with a Steam Dock, doesn't turn a Steam Deck into a user customizable, privacy respecting Xbox.
For starters it needs integrated streaming apps. I don't WANT to have to use a web browser to access streaming content. Next up those streaming apps need Audio and Video support for 4K resolutions, Dolby Vision / HDR, and Dolby Atmos. My Wife doesn't want to watch Outlander in 1080p with stereo sound on a 65" 4k television and I don't want to do it when I'm watching shows on Disney Plus.
How about an HDMI 3.x port? (Steam Dock is only 2.x).
It needs support for a normal tv style remote control. Game controllers are great but I've yet to find a half decent one that has volume and mute buttons.
The last time I checked a Steam Deck wouldn't automatically start in a 10' interface.
Please understand that I'm not bagging on the Steam Deck with these comments. It's a damn capable device for mobile gaming but it wasn't mean to be an HTPC and because of that its never going to function quite right if you try and make it be one.
An Xbox Series X absolutely murders a Steam Deck as an HTPC when used with commercial services but its not user customizable nor privacy respecting. That's why I want Valve to bring back Steam Machines.
Yes! I already have a full gaming desktop attached to my main 4k HDR OLED tv for watching streaming services that don't have apps on the actual TV (and adblocking). If I could replace that with an HTPC that has gaming capability that'd be great!
Or, you know, just connect the Steam Deck to the television...
I’ve tried this, and I think it’s worth providing a more powerful console if playing on the tv is your primary use case.
It works fine but it doesn’t really hold up to the 4k 60fps HDR experience that most people are getting used to from the main console makers.
A steam machine with a Radeon 7600 class GPU sold for under $500 would be a surefire hit and it would blow the deck out of the water in terms of performance.
What you, @crawancon@lemm.ee and @mipadaitu@lemmy.world are missing is a TV isn't necessarily a single user item.
Deck hooked to the TV to play a game? Great...now what happens when you leave and someone else wants to play?
The problem gets even more obvious if you use the Deck as an HTPC to stream content. How does anyone watch a show once the deck has gone walkabout?
My TV is 4k. The Steam UI alone is still a laggy mess at 4K. Setting the Deck at 1080p makes the whole thing really blurry. While upscaling games from 720p or 1080p to 4k looks better. Until they changed something about the FSR settings and it now cripples the performance at 4k as soon as you turn it on.
A Steam Machine aiming for Xbox Series S type of performance would be sweet.
They have. It's called the Steam Deck.
what people want is the internals of a steam deck but beefed up and easier to open up
An Xbox Series S (or even X) but not locked down and able to run Steam games would be great. But that's the kind of price you'd be looking for. Price of a PS5 would be the absolute maximum. Any higher, and mainstream people won't be interested because they can just buy a PS5 for that.
I think it's achievable at scale (millions of units like the PS5), but it'd be a huge gamble.
Bazzite is basically this with bring-your-own hardware. A first party Valve version doesn't make as much sense compared to a handheld like the Steam Deck but it would be pretty cool.
Two popups before I can read an article means you don't get read. Bye.
Using an ad blocker is basically requirement of browsing the internet at the moment.
Gross.
I think people misunderstood what I meant entirely. I'm saying it's gross to need an ad blocker just to browse the web, which should be in line with the values of the people here. I got down voted badly and I think it is because there was some possible alternative explanation that I still don't understand.
They don’t care, you already saw the ads
I'm sure there's more ads further down the page and now I won't be opening any more links to their site.
It's called a Mini PC or a NUC. They already exist. Go buy one and slap Steam on it. Done.
The people who actually want this have already done it.
Yah. Makes more sense for Valve to spend their time improving Proton or working on their reference handheld device. A reference desktop device is a solution looking for a problem.
Valve's big advantage here is the same as it was with the steam deck: they can sell at a loss and make it back on software sales.
A lot of the appeal of consoles is a polished experience and that they're generally less expensive up front compared to a comparable power gaming PC. Many consoles are sold at a loss to hit that price point. Valve could actually make cheap gaming PCs that can compete in price and offer a smooth user experience.
I still have a Steam Link, does that count? Lol
What value do they have? They were just custom prebuilt PCs running a special version of Linux that weren't that much cheaper than a non-Steam Machine PC. Nothing is stopping you from building a PC and installing the same OS running on the Deck and then calling it a Steam Machine.
Except knowledge.
It's foolish of you to assume that most people want to build a computer.
And before people respond with 'its just Legos'
There is so much more to it for someone with little to no knowledge.
Bios and firmware updates that require certain CPUs coupled with certain motherboards.
CPU sockets and inter compatibility.
The different specs of any given component and the value they provide to someone looking for specific workflows
Sizing of components and cases
Knowing where to find parts and what prices are acceptable.
Etc, etc ,etc.
Pick something that you know nothing about, let's say cars just as an example.
Now imagine, let's, say want to buy a car but it doesn't come with wheels, you don't get a list of 4 wheels to choose from, You get, lug patterns, sizing, and type, offset, wheel diameter, wheel width, bead lockers or no bead lockers, 1 piece, 2 piece or 3 piece, etc.
Now you have to spend all this time researching just about wheels, and then how they fit with the car you chose specifically earlier in the process, it would be frustrating and incredibly difficult for people who just want a car.
Go on any thread or forum and ask 'what GPU should I get' which is already making assumptions about someones understanding and knowledge (that they even know what a GPU is), and you will get 20 conflicting answers and need to write a paragraph in responses to narrow it down enough.
Present someone with no knowledge this: 'DDR3-2666 CL9' vs 'DDR3-2000 CL7'. How do you really expect someone who just wants to play a video game to just implicitly know what those numbers mean, how they relate to each other etc.
Building a computer is an immensely difficult task for someone who doesn't know much or anything about it, and believe it or not, the reality is not everyone wants to learn, places like lemmy and other tech focused echo chambers seem to forget that.
i'm perfectly happy with my pre-built machines. I like tech and love learning about it but- I don't really find value in putting a huge amount of time into building my PC from scratch when someone else can do it, and that person knows way more than me already!
All of your comment is true, although it's ignoring the fairly sizable pre-built market. You don't have to do it yourself, although I would say people should so they can diagnose issues themselves.
Pre-built sellers just need to offer SteamOS, or other Linux distributions, as an option at checkout instead of Windows.
The value isn't for existing PC gamers. It would be for people who are not tech literate, do not know how to build a PC, install an OS, or even tell if a given computer is powerful enough to run a particular game.
I think that's the real strength (and more importantly, intent) of the Steam deck: to get people who aren't PC gamers to become PC gamers by making it as simple as a traditional console. Steam machines could provide a similar thing if there were a Steam Machine 1 Verified flag next to games.
I think where valve went wrong was not requiring specific minimum specs. It led to a very inconsistent and hard to support platform.
Steam deck leading to a standard “steam device” hardware platform with consistent OS and hardware is my dream, but I know their goal thus far has been to refine steamos and release it for OEMs to use on their devices.
Or indeed just buying a gaming PC already running Windows that runs 100% of Steam games with no effort at all.
What's holding them back and killing the idea of a Steam Machine PC, is that GPUs are ludicrously expensive.
Shoehorn Steam into an Xbox Series S/X... Well that might work, but it needs MS to eat some humble pie.
I would not even hate this idea. To be honest, I would even think about buying one. I switched to Linux a year ago, while having Windows as dual boot option. I only used Windows for one game, which had a nasty Anti Cheat back then. Nowadays it is working on Linux. So I have no reason to use Windows anymore. And as I love Valve since the early days, I always try to get my hands on their products.
Steam machine? Nah. Just Steam OS would be enough.
Is your statement true? Probably
But if we set our standards to "enough", there wouldn't be any progress
Was the switch enough for couch gamers? Sure. Did valve want to progress further? They did.
I've seen these mockups for a steam controller that is essentially a steam deck without a screen multiple times now and it looks like absolute dogshit. This would be far from "the perfect controller".
Yeah, I don't know why they'd use that image. It's so lazy and uncreative. That's not what it'll look like. They literally just cut the edges of the Deck and shoved them together. I've seen better concepts of how it'll look.
As an owner of a Steam Controller, it's actually pretty nice. It's probably the most ergonomic controller out there, though for functionality it hits a different niche than the typical controllers you find everywhere. Its better for some games, particularly ones designed for mouse, but worse for others. I'd bet on the Steam Controller 2 being very ergonomic and adding sticks, as well as the track pads, to be quite possibly the best controller available for every game (excluding keyboard and mouse obviously).
When you say looks like shit, are you referring to the appearance of it or the functionality looks shit?
Because I don't really care what it looks like, I care how useable it is.
anything looks good in matte black
When you say looks like shit, are you referring to the appearance of it or the functionality looks shit?
Probably both. The hand position to use that thing would be an ergonomics nightmare to your wrists
I mean, why not bring back the OG Steam Controller aswell? I still use it and it works great, and it is almost creepy how it handles almost the same as the SD.
I've used my Steam Deck as a controller (via remote play) while sitting at my desktop PC. It is by far my favorite of the various controllers I've used.
The steam controller itself is pretty good, especially for like RTSs. But tbh the closest I've got to a KB/m is the DS5E. Just so damn expensive.
I would love to have a Steam Machine. I love my Steam Deck. However... the nature of Steam games, so far, even on the Deck, is that you need to bop "ok" every once in a while, or even enter a username or something for some unwashed-ass game, and that's a lot harder on a form factor that doesn't have a touchscreen...
The steam controller is amazing for that.
I really want an updated steam controller with the same haptic touchpad tech present on the deck. The original controller, while comfortable, just doesn't compare to the improvements present on the Deck 😭
Steamdeck + dock is essentially a Steam machine isn't it?
That's how I use my steam deck - a dell dock & some controllers
I mean with the fantastic touchpads that steam deck has and the steam machine controller would have it should be possible and quite easy to do.
I just really want a Steam controller tbh. :(
I'd absolutely love a steam controller 2, one that takes after the steam deck controls.
I thought I did, but I just couldn't get on with it. Fucking around with the touchpad was a very poor substitute for a right analogue stick.
Agreed. If they'd just put a right analog stick in there somewhere it would have been awesome. The vibrators just don't provide the right tactile feedback
What ever happened to SteamOS? I want to be rid of Microsoft now more than ever.
It became what it is currently the Steam Deck OS or at least the lessons learned were applied to create it. That being said you have distros like Bazzite and Pop OS focused on gaming, you could try those.
I recently deleted my Windows partition and went full Linux for my personal devices. I use Windows for work and it reminds me that I made the right decision.
I use Arch btw
Now that TunnelVision has been disclosed to the general public, I'm just trying to finish up my modded games, then I'm going to switch over to Linux and run Windows in a VM as needed.
Even with my pro license, I'm still at the whims of capitalist decision-making; tired of not really being in control of my own computer.
What ever happened to SteamOS?
It's still going strong! https://store.steampowered.com/steamos
Personally, I just like to install Debian or Ubuntu as the OS, and then install the Steam launcher:
https://www.linuxcapable.com/how-to-install-steam-on-debian-linux/
I think the outcomes are pretty similar, for an average user. But I find it a bit easier to search for help about other things I want to do with Debian/Ubuntu.
I say Debian/Ubuntu a bunch of times here because, while I like Debian a bit better, there's tons of help articles out there for Ubuntu, and 99% of them work perfectly on Debian.
It went to the Deck. I did read an article from someone who forked SteamOS and customized it for their own hardware, but it isn't a simple process.
Bazzite is probably the closest you can get to a Deck-like experience (and it's supposed to work for HTPCs), but there's several other distros that are gaming focused as well, such as Nobara, Garuda, and Chimera.
I wouldn't hate a non-portable steam deck, especially if they can make in-home streaming between the steam machine and the deck seamless
Steam link on steroids. now that i think about it, would the steam deck stream to a steam link?
Can't imagine it'd be worth doing considering you could just dock your deck to the tv. I know the deck is a beast at streaming to it though.
The problem is they keep breaking in-home streaming to/from the Deck. My Mac has a significantly more GPU oomph so there are some games I'd like to play streamed, but streaming hasn't worked in either direction since last year.
I would hope they'd be able to get that working much more reliably when both ends are known to be their hardware..
But also yeah, IHS is a huge coinflip depending on your home network too
Bring it back as an HTPC like the peeps are saying, low-ball it on the price like 500 bucks or less, maybe even take a hit on it or just a hit on the profit margins, pre-install all the stuff people might need, and then blam, you've guaranteed that most people will be casual users who want a lower-end computer and a smart TV/console replacement, and not higher tier hobbyists who want a more powerful machine. Confining your audience to that specific market share basically guarantees they won't take advantage of the lower or negative margins on the hardware itself, and will probably buy some amount of steam games. They're also using a device in your ecosystem now but idk what you do as far as that goes to make a good profit while not being a scumbag
Steam is already the biggest fish by far in the digital games market for PC. Only reason for them to do this is if they're worried about losing that dominance. Basically, is Epic keeping them up at night enough to warrant a major push into a new hardware loss leader?
No I want a steam deck and a dock that lets me also slot in a discrete gpu
The future of pc gaming should be tri upgrade platform
Regular consumer should really only have to worry about upgrading their deck, their connector dock, and their gpu
Hobbyists who like to max out may get into the deck and upgrade that should they wish
I just want to play games on my deck on the go, get home and slot it in so it outputs thru my gpu at 4k60, and literally pick up where I left off when on deck
A triple upgrade platform will allow more consumers to incrementally increase performance without overloading them with info ala pc building
So a kid could start out with the deck, and get a dock, then later get the gpu
During generation upgrades people can decide if they want to get one of the three options for upgrades in the new gen
There are some modders experimenting with eGPUs on the Deck, but it's really impractical. The Deck USB-C connector isn't powerful enough to handle an external GPU and the OS doesn't support it.
Valve would need to release new hardware for it to be feasible.
@helenslunch @vmaziman so "active cooling backplate for steam deck" it is then :D
I've been a long time eGPU user so that was probably the biggest thing I wanted from my steamdeck. But years on I'm not really sure how much I would use it. I use my CPU heavy laptop and eGPU when I want to game big. I'm not going to replace my laptop with my steamdeck. If I want more power than what my steamdeck has, but play on it, I just stream from my laptop + eGPU.
or just make the steam deck your primary hardware platform and ensure it can connect to everything and use all peripherals. refine it. make it unbeatable.
i think going in on more hardware is not wise.
I could see the new Steam Machine essentially just being a Steam Deck in a box. That'd allow it to have beefier hardware but it could use the same software and interface. Add a new tab for HTPC services and a quicker way to get to desktop mode and you're done. It would be another hardware platform but there'd be a lot less design if they were similar in architecture.
They basically already have one. The steam deck with the dock (though you have to provide your own controller.)
They'd certainly gain some performance improvements by building a dedicated steam machine, but it would also split the market for the steam deck, which the article already talked about as being a negative of the first iteration.
Dunno, I probably wouldn't get a stationary steam machine over a mobile steam deck. Though being able to use Thunderbolt 4 for an eGPU on a steam deck would be a welcome enhancement, but that's a whole different discussion.
I like the deck and am thinking about the dock for it, but the controller thing is something I’m wondering about. Any idea if it can handle 3-4 of them wirelessly? I mainly want to put it on the tv for local co op or party games, but I usually use ps4 controllers and have found their bluetooth is awful on PC.
It somewhat depends on the game, and the order that you pair things in.
I've run my steam deck, docked on the TV, with 2 Nintendo Pro controllers, 1 XBox controller, 1 Stadia controller, all running over bluetooth, and a fifth PS3 controller plugged in via USB. From what I understand the limit is 8 controllers, but I think the built in controller counts as one.
You can go into the settings and tell it which controller is which, but in the end, the game can override things and make it not work as expected. The only way to really know is to check on a game-by-game basis.
I regularly use 4 wireless Xbox controllers for this exact purpose, and it works great. There's always the occasional Bluetooth quirks, but overall it's seamless
I've managed to do 6 player Ps2 emulation on it just fine.
3-4 controllers would be ez.
I can confirm two in use simultaneously and a total of three connected (2 xbone, 1 PS5) but we were playing a two player only game. I would assume that if the game supports it, the deck would too.
... But that's an assumption :)
EDIT: to clarify - the wireless connectivity support is from the deck, not the dock.
Damn digitech synthwah sounds so cool
That controller has some serious Atari Jaguar vibes.
Steam deck without the screen. And with a controller.
They must be waiting for the Steam Deck 2 so it'll at least be 1080p natively.
No it's not
Hell yeah brother. Started playing Hades 2 on my custom chimeraOS PC yesterday in the living room. I absolutely love the experience. I've been considering getting that Hx100 PC from minisforum and running bazzite on there to replace my custom PC for a smaller console like footprint. The time is nigh!
honestly at this point bundle the dock w rechargeable wireless controllers and let me convert the deck I already love into a pseudoconsole.
yes, absolutely, as long as we don’t become ignorant to the huge ethical issues with steam like their decade of running an underage gambling surrogate. sorry, i just take issue with the article pointing out flaws of xbox and playstation without counter-balancing those criticisms with something about valve. valve is certainly better than both sony and microsoft in every regard, but they are not innocent at all
