If intelligent life is found in the universe will it change religion(s)?
....with the James Web Telescope looking for sources of artificial light to identify potential intelligent life, and the news this week of Perseverance searching for microbial life on Mars it feels like we are getting closer to a major discovery. But what - if anything - would it mean for the religions on Earth if life is proven to exist out there?
So, fun fact, St Augustine, who is considered one of the Church Fathers, explicitly argued that if the 'Antipodes' (i.e., southern continents not connected to Europe, Asia or Africa) actually existed and had humans living there, that would prove the Gospel was untrue.
The reason for this is as follows: Christians of his era believed that the reason God had allowed the Romans to destroy the Second Temple and push the Jews into exile was to prepare the men of all nations (as understood at the time) for the coming of the Gospel. The idea was that the Jews had taken the Old Testament, and the prophecies of the Messiah therein, across the whole world. Augustine argues that if the Antipodes contained human beings who had never had any kind of contact with Jews, and therefore no contact with the OT, and no contact with Christians, and therefore no contact with the New Testament, either, that must mean the Gospels are false. Why? Because there's no conceivable reason that a just God would have deprived entire civilisations of the chance of redemption.
Of course, we now know that at the time Augustine was writing (4th-5th century AD), there were literally millions of people who had never had the slightest contact with the Jews or Christians and, furthermore, wouldn't do so for another millennium. So, per Augustine's argument, all those millions were condemned to Hell (the concept of Purgatory didn't exist at this point, but condemning them all to no chance of Heaven, just because they were unfortunate to be born a long way away from Jersualem, is clearly also unjust). Either God is incredibly unjust and unmerciful, which means the Gospels are untrue, OR the Good News wasn't actually spread to all men, which must also mean that they're not true.
The upshot of this is that one of the Church Fathers has, in retrospect, irrefutably argued that the Gospels are untrue. The amount of special pleading required to make out that, actually, the Maori or the Easter Islanders or [insert any other uncontacted peoples here] had an opportunity to accept Christ and somehow missed it entirely is far beyond any sane interpretation of the evidence.
Now, as you might have noticed, this hasn't stopped people from believing in the Gospels. I don't see why the discovery of life on another world would dislodge people from a belief that is transparently false when nothing else has.
Catholic Church nowadays is actually already ready to incorporate extraterrestrial life in their preaching. There is a whole astronomical "research" center in Vatican dedicated to align scientific theories such as big bang within catholic preaching.
This is part of it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Observatory
One of the few things I liked about being a Catholic while I still was one
I remember being taught that Jesus presented himself to the rest of the world after his resurrection and that beyond that ‘the rocks testify’ and that all man is without excuse.
It always bothered me, even before I began deconstructing, and was one of a few things that never set well with me.
I’m surprised that in all my study of Augustine I never saw this about him before.
Yes, I always kind of respected the Mormons for at least trying to reconcile the existence of the Native Americans with the New Testament, beyond 'the rocks testify', but they also inadvertently showed how absurd the whole idea was by stretching every kind of evidence (biblical, linguistic, genetic, archaeological, etc.) so much to make it work! And of course even that didn't seem to account for the Polynesians and... well, everyone else.
I was always especially fond of the idea that Jesus revealed himself to the Aztecs and they somehow got so confused that they ended up worshipping a giant feathered snake instead.
Thing is, information like this won't get to everyone, but close to everyone will hear about finding life elsewhere
Fair point. I thought for a long time that the fact that Christianity simply couldn't have spread over the globe for a millennium and a half after Christ's death was a slam dunk argument against its core tenets, though. I cited Augustine here because I thought it was quite funny when I found out that one of the Church Fathers inadvertently agreed with me! It proved to me that my argument wasn't a case of me indulging in special pleading or anything like that: it really is a good argument.
Fact is though that all of us, Christian or not, religious or not, find difficulties when it comes to justifying our core beliefs. We constantly adjust to take in new information without really letting it get at our fundamental ideas. I don't see why discovering alien life would be any different for most people.
Thank you for this brief history lesson! I had never heard of St. Augustine and his treatise.
How do you think his argument fares now that the concept of purgatory exists?
Religion would change if religious people learn to look beyond 6 feet in front of them, but I guess that's less possible than proof of extraterrestrial life.
Not all religious people are the Westborough Baptists, rabid creationists, prosperity gospel followers and massive hypocrites you know personally. Nor are the rest all militant fundamentalists who think terrorism is a good idea.
There are Jains, parts of the Salvation Army and many more that are perfectly reasonable and don't go against anything science has to say. Because at the end of the day, religions and science have very little overlap, as most religious beliefs can neither be proven nor disproven.
I agree and disagree as well.
Religion as it is refers to a way of life. Ideally what your way of life is should not change with what others do or not do.
But realistically, what we have seen is that religion lets people justify their own shortcomings just because they are part of a secret group and then force their "way of life" on others.
At the same time, holding onto a single "way of life" is intrinsically prone to mistakes, since we are never given complete knowledge about everything and will never have it. We need to change constantly to be better versions of ourselves.
If there are people who believe in something greater than them, and are prepared to change if they have the necessary proof, then I'm afraid I can't call them religious. I'd call them spiritual.
Lmao no. Just how "vaccines cause autism" never changed...
Facts have never stopped religion before. Why would it change now?
Yea im not too optimistic that this would do anything for most true believers
Will proof of aliens change the brainwashed ultra religious? Not a chance. Hell, there are flatearthers and election deniers. I don't expect much from about 30% of our population.
I read that as "...electron deniers" and did a double-take. Now, wouldn't that be something!?
Well if opposite charges attract surely the electrons would be at the nucleus? Checkmate electron-realist.
I deny electron.
Electrons are empty inside except for a shower of virtual particle, anti particle pairs! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
Same as every other times when science have disproven religions fairytales. They adapt. God also made those lifeforms
Religion will just claim God made aliens, too.
Or that they're a test for the faithful. The way some do about dinosaur fossils.
I am also fully convinced that religious people could scientifically discover God and not believe it's actually God, so...
Yeah, stories in some religious are so vague that they can be applied to any thing. Some of them are vague enough that religious leaders will have no trouble just telling their followers that existence of aliens was already told in them.
Pope Francis has already said that if intelligent life is found, that they would also be considered children of God, so you're right on your first point.
Yeah, stories in some religious texts are so vague that they can be applied to any thing. Some of them are vague enough that religious leaders will have no trouble just telling their followers that existence of aliens was already told in them.
To expand on this, every stretch will be made to re-enforce their beliefs.
Aliens are bipedal? Intelligent design!
Aliens have mouths? intelligent design!
I've already seen religious people mixing christianity with ancient alien theory, claiming the aliens are really fallen angels, demons or nephilim, some woukd probably persist in this
Religions are unlikely to change substantially, I imagine they'll just find some way to explain the existence of aliens that fits their existing scriptures and world view.
There will be new religions that pop up as a result though, for sure.
Or say that science is lying again :p
Nothing. As long as people are scared of dying and other people are willing to profit from it, religion has a home
I think a lot of religious people will reason it this way- "Yes, there are aliens, but God chose us."
Death to all who reject Avis!
*bows head
Avis, we try harder.
They would just claim god created them, too. They already did this with the universe when the whole thing about there being other stuff than the earth came up.
Exactly this. I know a guy who is a Christian but also believes in extraterrastial life saying that ayy lmaos are also Gods children. Every time he talks about it my head starts to spin.
How many more steps until it's the 40k universe?
I think wed be about 28000 years away from having to worry about all that lol
I look forward to the aliens response being something along the lines of, "You're God's best boys and girls, yes you are, who are blessed little ape-beings? You are, yes all of you."
Religions adapt.
Immaculate. Adapt. Respawn
In general I think it would just give religions a new group to hate. They would be "Creatures not of God, but of the Devil Himself" in the same way that Christians think of other religions as born of the Canaanites and influenced by Satan.
I think at least with Christianity it would be similar of changing the everything orbiting the Earth to Earth orbiting the Sun. They'd just declare that it is all God's creation and be done with it.
Same for the big bang someone here claims to be a proof that all religions are false.
Christianity doesn't really change. They still think that the banana is our worse nightmare and since peanut butter has never evolved into a monkey evolution is false.
Bold of you to extrapolate from the subset you personally know to the entire concept. That's like saying Germanic languages haven't changed in a significant way because the only Germanic language you know is Icelandic (obviously not the case because you're writing in English, but it's just a simily anyway).
Did other advances in human knowledge change them?
Most of them still think the universe was made in 6 days by a bearded toga dude in the sky and if you are gay you are going to magical underground fire place.
Religion didn't change when it went up against intelligent people on earth. Why do you think intelligence from space would make a difference? If anything they'll use it as a way of validating their own beliefs.
They'll just make a new Testament saying a man cannot lie with that of another planet
Facts have never stopped religion before.
We'll need to take the word of Jesus to them, to save them. /s
💀
Where did you get that idea from? Even the pope accepts evolution and the big bang as creation history. Religion accepts scientific truth all the time, they just attach "... because of god" to everything.
Yup, and they’ll say the same if extraterrestrial life is discovered - that god created them, because he created the universe.
Yeah, in fact many scientists were and are genuinely religious and did their research in accordance to their belief, not in opposition. Now that used to be more true than today, but you can bend a lot in "yeah, that's also part of what God made" or straight-up just push mistakes on humans. "Yeah, we misunderstood God there".
The entire point of abrahamic religions is to never change.
You think they never changed?
What do you think Christmas is and where it came from?
Christmas was placed around the winter solistice to make conversion of 'pagans' easier in an "oh my god! you have a holiday then? so do I! what a coincidence! we should totally bump religions'' manner.
But in the context of change, with respect to the fundamentals of the faith, Christmas is about as relevant to the religion as seasonal events in MMOs are to end game content. Christianity has many different flavours around the world depending on what local beliefs were absorbed. Just have a look at church calendars from different countries and see what saints are celebrated year round.
Arguing change in abrahamic religions, you probably would have had a bit more success discussing the great schism of 1054 or the protestant reformation, but even those keep the same basic belief system of existence of god, him having a son, existence of a heaven and a hell and such (fun fact - there's no purgatory in the teachings of the catholic orthodox church - the full name for eastern orthodoxy).
Or, looking at other abrahamic religions you could argue that people that practice judaism have a saying along the lines that 3 rabbis have 4 opinions on a topic - an indicator of constant change in the world'a first monotheistic religion.
Yeah if anything they have proven to be incredibly adaptable . Absorbing local pagan rituals to stay popular/relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianityandpaganism#PaganinfluencesonChristianity. I'm sure they would find a mental-gymnastics way to rationalise intelligent life on another planet and how it's all part of God's plan.
Abrahamic religions cover Judaism (more than 2000 years), Islam (less than 2000 years), Christianity and a bunch of smaller off shoots.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the point of abrahamic religions is to never change. Every few hundred years in Christianity there’s a huge shift. Right now, there some very loud and influential people who are trying to go back to 1950s Christianity but event that is very different than 150CE Christianity.
What if the aliens are religious and their god is the one true god?
This actually brings up a good point that I never thought of before--it seems likely that if aliens have a religion, that religion will become a source of instant fascination to humans and will likely shake up Earth's religious landscape a lot more than the simple existence of alien life would (alien life simply existing would not have much of an impact by itself IMO).
The Orville show touched on this with the Krill species. Highly aggressive territorial beings acting in the name of thirr God, Avis.
Wait like the car rental company? 🤣
That was the best bit when they introduced them.
We're screwed
It's pretty hard to change mindsets. Even with proof, some would still close their eyes and shut their ears denying any fact presented in front of them.
I don't think it will. People generally don't let facts get in the way of their beliefs. I mean look at some of these wild ideologies people believe to be truth. Some ideologies obviously can't be factual, but people believe them as such anyway. Then they use circular logic to justify them. They'll just circle their way out of the fact other intelligent life exists.
I think it's like the discovery of exoplanets, scientists were pretty sure they existed and already believed they existed in numbers, but when it was proven to be true, there wasn't a whole lot of philosophical change in culture because of it. Though it did narrow down one of the Drake variables for the existence of intelligent life.
Two words hold a lot of weight these days it seems... Fake News
If need be, God need not die, it's all just Fake News. Heck one day it might even just disappear.
Nah, it'll just be another, "Gawd werks in mysterious wayz!"
Religion evolves, even if some creationists don’t believe in evolution. It wasn’t too long ago the the pope conceded that the church was wrong and Galileo was right. If extra terrestrial life is discovered there will be a period where all religions attempt to incorporate the news into their doctrine one way or another to keep the money rolling in.
Would the ignorant become well informed?
I have my doubts.
They'll do their own research and make their own well informed, reasonable conclu...
Sorry, I can't keep that bullshit up.
Most groups will move their goalposts as far as they need to in order to make the new reality fit their narrative. They won't actually change their minds about anything here on earth.
Other groups will start attacking the sources of the new information. The weaker will simply question the facts, like they did during the pandemic. There will also probably be a more militant arm, physically attacking telescopes and sources of extraterrestrial information like Gary Busey's son did in Contact.
A few will embrace the knowledge that there is intelligent life outside our planet... and immediately start preparing missionary trips to spread the word of their upcoming redemption like some kind of latter day Prior of the Ori.
A very small group will see this as the truth it is... that their accepted view of reality isn't correct, that maybe they should rethink things.
In short, we can absolutely depend on the religious to ruin things for everyone else, just like always.
But seriously, we should also be hopeful that whatever intelligent life we may possibly discover doesn't have their own problems with religion... because that will not end well for anyone.
With new worlds to deliver The Word to? Nah they wouldn't change, but they'd get serious about space travel.
If one of those aliens turns out to be Jesus, I might have to become a Christian.
"Hey, JC. Where have you been? Lots of people here have been waiting for you to return."
"Oh you would not believe the traffic jam I was stuck in at the Horse head Nebula."
Probably not, they will just interpret/twist their holy writings to support what happened. Or if they can't think of anything it will just be a "God works in mysterious ways" explanation.
Probably not.
By the way, to all who are ridiculing religious folk: the big bang theory was theorised by a Catholic priest, and it only strengthened his faith.
How does that make religion less dumb?
How does that make religion less dumb?
Such a nice man as well. Always surrounded by the altarboys. He would give extra attention to the ones that didn't have stable home lives and no adult in their life to report to the---i mean look after the kid.
Hey remember two years ago when the vaccine came out and Christians said it was satanic and had aborted baby parts floating in it? Good times.
Your first claim is false. Also, teachers are molesting kida disproportionately more than the priests. Should we shut down schools then?
I don't remember any Christian said that. Probably because it happened once in some obscure town in southern US. It was also proven that the vaccine came out without proper testing done and had many side effects that was covered up.
Please remember that everything is not black and white. Try to come to your own conclusions instead of adopting whatever mainstream media tells you to believe.
65% of Americans already believe that there's intelligent extraterrestrial life, which is about the same as the percent that identify as religious so there must be a fair bit of overlap already. Americans used to be a lot more religious just a few decades ago but I don't have historical belief-in-aliens percentage at my fingertips.
My expectation is that a remote-radio-signal-only detection of alien intelligence will have almost no effect on society, not in the near term anyway. It's too abstract to factor in to most people's lives. Finding relics within our solar system from long-gone visitors might have a bit more of an impact because I expect there'd be a "gold rush" to find more, since they may have practical value and are limited in supply. The only thing that would have a serious and widespread impact would be actual live aliens (or "live" alien AIs, same thing really) in the solar system itself. At which point the outcome is basically "what outcome do the aliens want this to have? That's the outcome we get."
I recall reading or hearing a rumour that the Vatican had a sealed scroll somewhere which is "to be opened in the event of positive extraterrestrial contact or proof".
Given secrets of that type don't often stay secret, it amounts to something like: "God made all life and the creator is in all living creatures" (handwaving).
In other words, the major religions already have their shit prepared.
Given secrets of that type don’t often stay secret, it amounts to something like: “God made all life and the creator is in all living creatures” (handwaving).
Imagine being a pope when alienz arrive and with shaky hands, opening that "sealed scroll" and going, "sigh, it's all that same GODDAMN crap again..."
Did they have to write it on a scroll :/
It isn't official until it is written on a scroll.
If they're more intelligent than us but with the same morals we're doomed, so we might have not time to adapt our religions.
Me personally, I think God created all of our planets and all of our stars and whatever life lives in the universe, even outside of Earth. People who believe the same way would just stay the same and would praise God more for how great he is.
For the others though (iykyk)... well, they're gonna be like all the other flat-earthers or they call these aliens devil spawn or whatever.
Did you know the Big Bang is called that because Adam was banging Eve?
No, it wasn't. Science has long proven that religion is a pure hoax, that's why many studious individuals were burned to death or persecuted throughout human history.
It may have disproven the claim that some creation myths are to be taken literally (and even that is questionable if you assume a trickster deity), but it's impossible to disprove religion itself.
Ancestor worship for example is wholly unconcerned about how exactly the world came into existence.
Most denominations of Christianity just take the Judeo-Christian creation myth as primarily who created the universe, and not really how, and a categorisation of things and beings.
Most religions primarily make claims about what happens to the self after death and whether one's life influences that. Unless science opens a portal to an actual afterlife somehow, that is not something science can answer, and religions will continue to exist.
I think OP picked ‘aliens’ because it would be an event where the whole world has to acknowledge that they exist and it would also contradict probably most of the current religions
I'd argue the opposite. Most religions don't care about aliens existing or not (ancestor worship, Shinto, all Dharmic religions as far as I know, animism, etc.). Others have already made arguments why aliens should exist according to their religion (argued by at least one catholic "saint"), while others would find it difficult but not impossible to fit aliens into their belief systems.
Similarly, the Big Bang at best disproves the literal nature of a religion's creation myth, if such a myth exists to begin with. An ancient Greek would just tell you that obviously the Big Bang or its aftermath is Chaos, from which the first gods came. An elf in Tolkien's legendarium would tell you that obviously that was the beginning of Ea (the universe), sung into existence by the first notes sung by the Maiar. A Hindu might say something about Brahman being split into smaller existences.
if there are religious aliens, why haven't their alien televangelists hit us up for donations yet?
And if there's life on other planets, then I'm sure that he must know, and he's been there once already and has died to save their Souls
Larry Norman, "In Another Land", 1976
So Jesus is dying all over the universe? How gratuitous.
The irrational will always find ways to remain irrational.
I don't know why the existence of aliens would rattle anyone's belief. Unless you can find a way to take away their threat of dying, they're going to believe in God.
It is a strange situation for me. I know that one day it will be it for me. A billion eons and a single second will be the same. For the theist they are facing a chance at magical underground fire place. Wouldn't painless non-existence be so much better than infinite torture? I won't even know that I no longer exist because there will be no I to know. If they invented the afterlife to feel better about death why even a chance that it can go wrong? I would invent heaven but not hell.
Unless of course it is just a means of control...
Is OP implying there are religions that deny the existence of aliens? Most religions of a spirit realm, hidden realm for supernaturals, etc. I also don't see the connections...
Hi! I was listening to a podcast awhile ago that stuck with me and they discussed a book I am struggling to remember the name of. In it, a religious man travels to a planet of intelligent alien life to make first contact.
All the aliens live peacefully, in harmony with the enviroment. There is no crime, poverty or muder. Everyone is kind to each other. But not a single being on the planet has ever heard of God, or made contact with any divine being. This troubles the protaganists conscious as they found an perfect balance of life without any guide. When he returns to Earth, he is told that the Devil must have invented the aliens to test his faith.
Thats all the details I can remember but it was a fair and unbiased story and it came to mind with all the recent news nentioned above. Thats all.
Like everything else, it depends on which religion you ask. Some will be fine with it, while others will be frothing at the mouth in denial, to convert them, or call for full on extermination. Just ask yourself "how does X group treat the humans they hate the most" and you'll have your answer.
If the discovery of life on other planets is anything like the discovery of life on other continents, then yes, we will force them to change their religion (and economic model).
Oh, is that not the question?
Well, it's a suitable answer anyway. No way we'd change our beliefs to accommodate aliens when we can change the aliens to accommodate our beliefs.
I think the discovery of intelligent life outside earth will cause existential crisis to a lot of people, and some of them would turn to (new?) religions to cope.
Really depends on the religion and the kind of life discovered. No religion would have any issue with life on other planets in general, as long as it's not provably intelligent life.
If it is provably intelligent life, some branches of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Mormonism (in order of age) would get into a crisis of belief while other branches would readily adapt. There likely would spring up many sects, some of which would claim that intelligent life to be angels/demons. There would be theological debates about whether these beings have their own original sin, etc.
Meanwhile, most other religions would simply not care all that much. Ancestor worship literally wouldn't give a shit. Religions with reincarnation would simply expand their notions of what you can be reincarnated as. Many local pagan religions have creation myths that apply only to their local region. If those creation myths survived contact with colonizers and the knowledge that the world is larger than the area they cover, the knowledge of aliens existing wouldn't make any more of a difference.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if several new alien-based religions sprang up.
Some fandoms are basically religions, especially sport club fandoms. They wouldn't give a shit.
Lastly, it would be a boost to militant/proselytizing atheism/materialism, which also are like religions to some people.
That said, it would take a long time from the first evidence of intelligent alien life to having it proven to the point that it can't be dismissed as misinterpretation of data and malicious manipulation. Unless an alien armada invaded and took over part or all of Earth, there would be more than enough time for everyone to adapt without much issue.
And even then it wouldn't be the unifying event for the world. It would literally be a race to see who could sell out the others first to get a technological advantage. It's 2023 and we're having a mind-boggling resurgence of people who again think the world is flat and that vaccines are just poison used for control.
At least christians and mormoms would probably send some missionaries their way, too.
Won't happen. Well some fringe group might launch someone. In the right direction, but they won't arrive.
However the universe is large and the speed of light very slow: we will never be able to send humans to another alien. In fact the speed of light is so slow, odds are we will never even get to the point where both civilizations are aware of each other - either we know they existed but they are extinct before we discover it, or they discover us long after we go extinct (of course we won't know that).
Realistically there are only a few stars with in range of where we can establish contact. The farther out we get the less useful contact will be just because by the time we get a response we are likely to have figured it out. If we asked an alien 1 light year away (there are no stars that close to earth) about fusion they can tell us what we are doing wrong and jump start us. However by 20 light years out odds are we will know what we did wrong before their response can reach us so we are limited to sending the latest movies back and forth (open question - we will enjoy each others entertainment), and by 100 light years it is just culture interest. Even if they are very long lived, they may be interested in us, but we won't be able to sustain enough interest in them to answer questions - not to mention their questions will be obsolete (an alien 100 light years out would have just had questions about human life in 1823 reach back to us - we don't really know)
Saint Thomas Aquinas taught it was possible that non-human intelligent life existed out there. He said it was improbable but theologically possible. So I think the Catholics will handle it well.
I wonder if the RCC already has a plan to cover up one of their preists molesting aliens.
The real chaos would happen if all the recent UFO stuff turns out to be true. Aliens existing RIGHT HERE ON EARTH could quite possibly cause changes in one or more major religions, but maybe not immediately.
I think that if we had inexorable proof of alien life there would absolutely be a shift in the public. I'd love to think we'd grow closer as humanity.
Just meeting another person who didn't automatically believe in your allegedly true God unless you told him about it should have put religion to rest forever.
Moreover, it's almost funny how thousands of cultures who had no contact between them at all have imagery of red devils with bad intentions yet nobody manages to have even a similar idea of what our supposed God is.
Religions have for a long time evolved from "lets explain the world" to a perfectly effective brainwashing detergent. What is one more step.