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Rant

A few days ago, I asked if Mint would run okay on a Lenovo T460 (I appreciate all the advice). I got it working, but the installation was a big pain and I totally blame Lenovo.

I got the T460 refurbished and I really didn't want to run Windows 10 on it. I last used Linux for any real length of time a good 20 years ago, so I'm pretty inexperienced with it at this point and I had to figure out how to install it myself.

They made it unreasonably difficult to first install an OS from a USB stick. I had to go into the BIOS, turn UEFI to legacy, turn off secure boot, reboot to boot from the USB stick, install Mint, then turn legacy back to UEFI to get it to boot from the hard drive. This took about 2 hours of trying to figure it out by doing a lot of forums reading.

I do not blame the Mint community or the Linux community as a whole. There is absolutely no reason that it should have been that hard to install Mint on that notebook.

I don't even think getting into the BIOS once time should be necessary, but changing a BIOS setting so you can install the OS and changing it back so you can run the OS off the internal drive is just ridiculous and I find it hard to believe Lenovo couldn't have just made it easier. I'm fairly convinced this was intentional on their part.

I'm not an IT professional or anything, but I know enough to figure this stuff out with effort, but it shouldn't have taken that effort. It should have been almost plug-and-play. This is 2024. The notebook isn't even 10 years old.

Is there actually a good reason for this or are they just kissing Microsoft's ass?

73 comments

  • Being unable to boot from a USB drive in UEFI mode sounds like a Mint problem. I just booted from an Ubuntu LTS USB on a similar machine, installed with all default BIOS. Haven't touched Secure Boot either. No trouble.

    • Hm. Maybe I should have tried a different flavor of Linux in terms of ease of install. But Mint seemed like the best choice for me and now that it's actually up and running, it's fine.

      • By all means, if it works already, don't fuck with it.

        This community hates on Ubuntu but these are the kinds of corner cases that can make or break a new user's journey. Experienced users can resolve those with no emotion and we often discount the difficulty and importance of such issues to less experienced users. There's been a lot of work put in Ubuntu to tackle these kinds of issues - paper cuts. Recall the One Hundred Paper Cuts project. This is why I won't stop recommending Ubuntu LTS for new users.

  • Well done. It’s a Lenovo issue. Had to do the same thing recently for a friends laptop and did the same dance.

    I have some IT background so kind of knew what to look for but it still was a pita.

    • It's just so stupid. Obviously other notebooks don't have this issue. Some people are blaming Mint for not doing anything about it, but I'm still blaming Lenovo mostly.

  • You should have been able to boot from USB and install fully in UEFI mode with Secure Boot enabled, but sometimes the method you use to make the bootable USB can screw that up. I've always had good luck with Ventoy.

  • That's surprising, Thinkpad x240 owner here. With all the os i installed on it i never had to do such overcomplicated manipulation, just bios entering + boot on usb.

  • I totally agree. I am an IT Profe and it's still very irritating to have to jump through these hoops. Plus each manufacturer has a different key you need to press to access the bios. Sometimes the same OEM will have different keys on different models.

    So you try the normal ones which don't work and then have to Google the model number to try find out which key to hold.

    Frustrating and time consuming. And definitely makes it very difficult for the average user to install Linux.

    I sometimes think Microsoft did it on purpose to hinder Linux installs and then disguised it as "security".

    It's not really "security" if you can turn it off is it?

  • That's what you get when you buy Lenovo. It can't even run Windows properly most of the time how did you expect it to run Linux?

    Seriously if you go into any large company and ask why they don't use Lenovo they'll simply tell you that the failure rate of those machines is way to high to be worth it. Like order 50 and only 10 are in working condition after 2 years... or a simple USB 3 cable running along the computer will make it slow because there isn't enough shielding on the machine and the high frequency of those cables interferes with your storage controller / NVMe.

    • how did you expect it to run Linux?

      Because I asked in this community and got a bunch of people who said they ran Linux on it and it worked just fine? Which it does now that it's been installed.

      • Hardware recommendations are really hard, brands to a lot of shit and there are a LOT of small details that make it so a small revision on the same model can make or break compatibility with any OS... even worse for Linux. Windows has tons of specifics hacks to work on specific hardware and they aren't pretty.

        For me, personally I always got the best result with HP EliteBooks from 2 or 3 generations bellow the current one and the latest Debian. But again, that's just personal experience, nobody can guarantee you that you won't pick a very specific EliteBook with some awkward detail and things will fail.

  • are they just kissing Microsoft's ass?

    This. 100%. It's why I don't understand folks recommending Lenovo laptops to run Linux on. Lenovo is in bed well Microsoft and caters to whatever they want. SecureBoot, modern standby, etc. We need more vendors supporting open source firmware like Coreboot.

    Edit: feel free to refute me instead of just down voting.

    • Lenovo also no longer deserves their reputation for durability. They haven't for at least a decade. Their usb-c charging ports wear out super fast

73 comments