Why is TikTok seen as privacy invading and bad, but Facebook is fine?
Why is TikTok seen as privacy invading and bad, but Facebook is fine?
I'm not here to claim that Tiktok is completely harmless, or that it's even a good site. I'm sure they absolutely do collect as much personal information as they can, and I'm sure they give it to the Chinese government whenever they ask. But I don't understand how Meta and Facebook are meant to be any better? There's always a lot of hoo-haa going on with politicians promising to ban tiktok, and (at least back on Reddit) everybody's vowing they will never use tiktok because it's such a privacy invasive site. Yet I never see anybody going up against Facebook, at least the average person, but they collect just as much personal info and I'm sure hand it over whenever any government agency in the US asks them to
It kind of feels to me like this is some sort of country thing. China is bad, so they shouldn't have your personal info. But the US is the last bastion of free speech and privacy, so their companies would NEVER dare to invade your privacy, and their government would never abuse their power to get people's personal info
I'm aware Lemmy probably isn't the best place to ask since most people here seem to be deep into open source software and often privacy focused (so I suppose wouldn't use either) but this also feels like the only place on the internet I might actually get an answer that isn't just "TIKTOK BAD". If you refuse to use tiktok but are ok with Facebook - why?
Who said Facebook is fine ? Threads was illegal in the EU due to privacy concern.
"Facebook is fine" Ima stop you right there, lol
They're both bad but tik tok is on steroids. There are a bunch of security researchers out there that have uncovered the crap ton of shit tik tok collects. It's basically a spyware app that also comes with a social media app. From the ground up it was meant to collect personal information and every little bit about your device. I block it on my network because any tik tok device also scans the entire network and I don't want that to happen.
People in the know understand how shitty Facebook is, but at the very least, they're a private company. ByteDance is Chinese, and there's very little separation between Chinese companies and the Chinese government.
So, for all intents and purposes, it comes down to a company spying on you vs. a foreign government spying on you. They're both invading your privacy, but for different nefarious reasons.
Facebook is certainly not fine, it's just talked about less, especially among the younger generations. Teens and twenty-something's haven't been drawn to Facebook for quite some time, while TikTok is currently the place to be if you're in that age range. You don't need to convince a Zoomer to avoid Facebook, because Facebook is where their grandma does social media, but TikTok is currently dominating their attention.
Haven’t seen this mentioned, but Meta hired marketing consultants to present to the government how dangerous TikTok was just so their Facebook/IG reels or whatever they are called can take their place. This spawned a ton of news articles and opinion pieces about the government talking about this new dangerous TikTok thing and how bad it is. Also, it was very clear that an anti TikTok campaign was happening on Reddit like a year ago, so the marketing didn’t stop with presenting things to the government.
And I’m not saying it isn’t a breach of privacy. I also use Google maps too, so I’m not too terribly concerned with it. But it does just seem like a marketing smear campaign centralized around the facade of xenophobia and “think of the children”
I think the issue with this question is the fact that you asked it on a decentralized platform. If you asked this same thing on a centralized social media platform, you’ll definitely get far more pro-Facebook and anti-TikTok comments and less “uh…both are bad CHECK PLEASE”
What if I told you both were bad?
Real quick --> these discussions tend to spiral off into bad faith arguments and whataboutism, I'm going to try and avoid that
I think there are a few things that come to mind for me, and I apologize for this being very disorganized
- Both are bad and privacy invading, I avoid both as much as possible
- facebook where I am (and likely through north america) is more embedded in how we communicate. Both individually, and with companies/institutions. This isn't a good thing, but it's what has happened.
- I don't post much or at all on either, and I use the web browser when possible. Unfortunately, I'm forced to use facebook stuff more than I am forced to use tiktok (which I don't think happens at all)
- Because TikTok is newer, it's also easier to restrict it. I think if Facebook tried to enter today, we'd push it away much harder
- Is one actually worse? Maybe, but I'll defer to people that know more. I think on the app level, TikTok collected more data (and types of data) than the apps for Facebook products.
For me, it's less about who is getting the data than what data is collected. Especially because once the data is collected, it won't necessarily stay with the one entity. I wouldn't be surprised if both Facebook and TikTok benefit from the data that the other one collects, making that point somewhat moot
- Both are bad and privacy invading, I avoid both as much as possible
It's not fine - it's been around longer and the user base is rusted onto it.
I left Facebook in 2018 after discovering the level of behavioural tracking, and the discovery that Facebook had both captured and sold this information to advertisers. I found this out at a marketing technology showcase after chatting with a FB engineer.
Facebook collects far more than we think it does. I don't understand why they aren't getting hit hard with HIPAA violations yet.
Tiktok is Chinese and Facebook is American... That's why they are saying tiktok is bad... Facebook is probably worse by a considerable degree.
Are you referring to privacy or security? In my opinion, they're both absolute dumpster dogshit for privacy AND security. But facebook (meta) is a US company whereas tik tok is a Chinese company. So tik tok is seen as a security risk because China is an adversary to the west. An adversary is more likely to spy through their product than a friendly nation. So tik tok is seen as a security threat by many in the west. That's basically all there is to it.
TikTok is owned primarily by western investors and it's board is majority American. Usually I would be here to give the contrarian opinion that the government that is most likely to harm you is your own and that the majority of people would be better off with a non-cooperating country having your data. However, TikTok is just as likely to hand over user data to the US as Facebook is. It's the worst of both worlds.
It isn't fine for us. It might be fine for US politicians because Facebook is a US company subject to US laws.
- Facebook is old and shown itself more and more shitty over time. TikTok happened to be this way from the start, as it's how users could allow it to be when it launched.
- TikTok is viral, no one cares about Facebook outside of Facebook.
- Rational and irrational dislike of distant China. Local issues aren't reacted on as much as they are routine.
- Both harm to the kids as it's popular with them most and cross-generational confusion between zoomers and older people.
- TikTok is not a classic social network with friends, groups, chats, blogs but more of a content platform with it's own distinct format of content, genres, them not being to everyone's taste.
I don't use neither. Not for security first, but rather because I can't find there something interesting for myself. Not my things.
to boil it down; "only our government gets to spy on us"
It's not, I don't use either of them.
First, Facebook isn't "fine" by any measure - That's what you call a false premise. Tiktok sees more scrutiny generally, initially because of rightful skepticism of a platform beamed into children's brains, with partial ownership by the authoritarian government of it's parent country.
That initial well-founded distrust, along with things like this early on, "TikTok memo directed censorship of users deemed ugly, overweight, or disabled, and banned users for livestreams that criticized governments" were then perpetuated by the lazy, ignorant blind racism from the American far right because they were tools to hate then by people like trump.
I'm in my late 30s and nobody I know thinks Facebook is fine, including the few people I know that still use Facebook.
because USA is a hypocrite country
China is the enemy, therefore when they do it it's bad.
Personally, I think they're all bad. the US is not nearly as bad as the CCP is, in regards to privacy and what they do with personal information. (the US might wish it had china's capability, though.) the CCP uses digital information to the extent of having an AI that watches everything you do- including CCTV recordings and everywhere you physically go; tracking what doors you use, in a broad surveillance campaign. (frequently, Uyghur Muslims are targets,).
They also have agents show up to live with you- if they think you're particularly... whatever...
China also uses the intel gleaned on TikTok to target people of interest; etc, and you're an idiot if you think TikTok's data it gleans on you doesn't go straight to the CCP. It also gets alot more information than you think- including other devices on your network, etc.
All that said; Meta/Facebook, twitter. Whoever. They're all selling their data to the CCP, too. and to the US. And to everyone else.
if you care about your data, the only real choice you have is to not use those services. at all.
fb is evil
Facebook is shit, but they're only shit for money. China wants to literally dominate the world.
Tiktok is bad because it's Chineese, Facebook is 'good' because it's American.
Alas, that's all.
I used Facebook because everybody I know uses it. My wife and me are the 1st to delete that account, as we hate the constant tracking of Facebook. Alas, Google is even worse, but as Android user we're linked to that. I'm trying to minimize contact there as well, but it's hard with purchased apps and content.
For some strange reason having your own country or 'friendly' countries and their companies track you is 'good' and when less friendly countries or their companies do that it's 'bad'. When somewhat privacy minded, all tracking is bad.
When someone tels me they have nothing to hide, I'll ask if they would like a camera in their bathroom or bedroom, as they have nothing to hide. All say that's an unfair comparison, but it shows that there is nobody that has nothing they waht to keep private.
For me, US companies are even worse then the Chineese ones, as US companies will try to enforce US law and morals upon it's users. (But I don't trust either)
I can't speak to the privacy aspect, but its at least possible to interact with Facebook in a less algorithmized way, especially if you turn off the news feed and just search for interests or visit grandma's page. Ticktock, from what I understand, just profiles you into boxes and proceeds to shovel a stream of swill into your trough until you are maximally isolated and radicalized in your echo chamber. I think it's crazy to trust either and I'm glad to see GenZ shunning FB a little more. I avoided Ticktock, but do have a Facebook account.
I think how you interact with the sites can effect perception of privacy.
facebook is a US company and has a high incentive to reasonably adhere to US regulations and consumer protection laws, especially when it comes to US citizens. Tik-Tok is not a US company and is not incentivized to reasonably adhere to US regulations and consumer protection laws.
Both companies might share your information, but if you live in the US you would have SOME legal standing if a US company did something out of line with your data. If Tik-Tok decided to publicize all your messages I don’t imagine there is much you could do. If facebook did you could probably get a reasonable lawsuit going.
How is the US a bastion of free speech???
Meta/FB doesn't want anyone else sound what they do
One other reason that I'm surprised not to have seen anyone has already brought up is the degree of government involvement. There's the perception (whether it's true or not) that a business run in China is necessarily on the lookout for the government's best interests and possibly directly interfered with by the government. The same perception says that's not true in America, where the only time the government is involved is through direct known legislation & regulation, or via espionage operations done against the company's will. There's an absence of fear that, for example, the company will be manipulating its algorithm for the government's gain. (Instead, it's purely manipulated for the company's shareholders' gain, which is oh so much better, right? Right?)
Coming from someone who uses neither currently but has used Facebook before, I think it's more to do with the fact that people are used to Facebook, Google and other companies collecting data. Facebook does a ton of lobbying to tell you just how much they value privacy.
Facebooks data policies are supposed to follow US law. As you already mentioned, I won't go any further on that. With a foreign country that isn't exactly super friendly with the US, they could use this same data against citizens. You have no real GDPR, or US privacy laws to protect you if China decides to target a diplomats family or whatever.
For most people, it's probably not going to affect you either way, but because data is something we really don't understand the full value of. As an Example, ethnic groups could be targeted and tiktok can be used as a data source.
With the whole Facebook being used to potentially manipulate elections, Tiktok could be as well and the US/other countries have even less they can do to stop it.
But a lot of the hate that you're seeing on the news is playing into China bad and not really casting light that they are okay with US companies collecting the same data. See: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/everything-we-know-about-facebooks-secret-mood-manipulation-experiment/373648/
https://www.businessinsider.com/tiktok-censor-china-critical-content-uighur-uighurs-2020-11?op=1
Because boomers use Facebook.
I don't use either.
TikTok China and Facebook USA
Obviously China bad