Far-right extremism is thriving in rural areas. Here's what it looks like in Upstate NY
Far-right extremism is thriving in rural areas. Here's what it looks like in Upstate NY
People are desperate, angry, and feel like they have nothing to lose. Because regardless of who is in office, they never help. And people who feel.like they have nothing to lose, are going to act like they have nothing to lose.
Soooooooo many of our issues could be solved with the bare minimum social systems in every other developed country
Billy Bob ain't going to try and overthrow the government if he feels the government is looking out for him, even if he's still a racist piece of shit, he's now got something to lose if he fucks around.
Just like with other terrorists, the best way to fight them is figure out why people are joining their organization and then fix whatever issue makes people do it. It's a lot easier to prevent an extremist than to fix one after
It's not that simple. Racist folks in America don't care they are poor as long as minorities are even poorer. That's a huge part of Republican politics, that's why they vote for Trump. Trump doesn't promise them they will have better lives. It's all racist dog whistles promising them they will still be on top, they will be the 'better' race. That's why they oppose all sensible policies, because they will try to fix inequality and inequality is what they want.
And I don't think there's a simple fix for this. Many countries have this issue (UK, France) and the more progressive policies you try to push there the stronger the push back is. In the end it usually goes farther right until something terrible happens...
This needs to be repeated. It sounds ludicrous that someone could be so petty and cruel, but it's true. Conservative politics is the ideology of natural hierarchies. It doesn't matter how bad white folks have it, as long as those damn black folks can't use the same drinking fountain as them!
It’s not that simple. Racist folks in America don’t care they are poor as long as minorities are even poorer
True, but they wouldn't push to keep other races down just so they're below them so they can feel better about their own problems. Or at least wouldn't be pushing so far down.
They wouldn't have as many problems to blame on other races either.
It's not like anything besides 100% solving racism is a waste of time. And keep in mind, this is just a positive side effect to actually helping everyone...
It's like turning down a free steak because the potatoes isn't big enough....
People are desperate, angry, and feel like they have nothing to lose. Because regardless of who is in office, they never help.
We have ONE party that loves and needs division and desperation so they block anything that makes lives easier. The GOP needs riled up, angry people to get elected to "fix things" - that is why nothing changes - witness their immigration strategy.
Yeah, but it's not just racist hillbillies that feel like they have nothing to lose...
That's a lot of Americans these days. And they make up a lot of the 1/3 that don't vote.
So the other party could sweep elections for decades if they start doing all they can.
FDR only lost two states in 1936. Because people trusted FDR to actually try and help them.
Even tho his push for universal healthcare for stopped by moderate Dems, he still kept getting elected. Because just trying is enough for American voters
It's a lot easier to prevent an extremist than to fix one after
Yes it is.
But it takes time to get positive results, and far too many people are too short sighted to do anything when the "return on investment" is a generation away.
Every time I've seen those type of program started, the following government cuts them and claims it was a waste of money because it hasn't shown results yet, even though it's only been a year and you can't make signifignat change to people's lives that quickly.
It's not a generation away tho...
It's not like extremism sits off to the side like a 5gallon bucket and once it's full someone knocks it over.
It's like a garden hose. Turn the faucet down even a little has an immediate effect because it's adding less water immediately.
Every day we lose an American to this extremist shit. Even publicly trying to fix shit and failing would have an immediate effect.
You're other point has to deal with alternating parties.
If we went back to FDR style Dems that consistently put in work to help Americans, Republicans wouldn't be winning anything.
FDR only lost two states in 1936, it's incredibly effective, we just stopped doing it.
I agree with you. It's a catch 22 it though. When you live in a state run by shit birds, they cut off the fed from helping you in every way they can, meanwhile holding their little town hall events and talking to press saying stuff like: ‘the fed doesn't care about American citizens, they're too busy sending aid to [x country] to fix their problems’ and with the very same breath saying how cool it is that they conned the left into giving their state the most funding this year, but the media doesn't hold them accountable anymore and further push the issue "for fear of losing access" to them. The big secret, and the key to the issue in my opinion, is that the media is bought by billionaires who are no longer accountable to reality when reporting the news, the regulatory bodies in this country have been eroded to shit by capitalists, the now obligatory talking point: Citizens United, and that nobody is going to swoop in to save this awful mess from imploding into fascism any time soon. You all need to take personal safety measures; arm yourselves, and train with your weapons in whatever way you can safely afford. These fuckers are coming for us all, and they'll have the full support of a dictatorship soon enough, if we aren't able to get out the vote. UNITE!
That sounds a lot like socialism and we can't have that commie trash here!
Murica!
/s
And for some reason they think they have more in common with Billionaires than socialists, make it make sense.
Exactly. Likewise, the greatest way to fight the "war on terror" would've been through legitimate support and education, but that would not have enriched the US fossil fuel and MIC oligarchy, or pleased the bloodthirsty neanderthals who refuse to support and educate their own neighbours, so it's a non-starter — now, here we are, and everything's worse.
It's such a viscous ugly circle in the US though. I think really piss poor education in a lot of these rural areas is largely to blame. These thugs are by and large incredibly stupid people. The people that want to help fix the rural education systems are made to look like their enemies though, they are literally voting against their best interests. The GOP thrives off denying quality education and manipulating the feeble minded. Stupidity breeds hate and fear, and guess what, they have propaganda to play on those secondary features as well. You could try to give these people money and education and they would slap it out of your hand, call you a commie fag, and feel they did the right thing. We shouldn't stop trying, but it's really hard to help someone that shuns the help being offered.
Then why don't these assholes vote for people who actually propose things to help them?
Regardless of whether they can even be passed with a broken Congressional system, the Republicans they're supporting don't even pay lip service to helping anyone anymore. They don't promise support, they actively destroy the support, they spit on the very idea of support. Routinely
And yet these people go to the polls for them.
We are loooooong past the "economic anxiety" excuse.
Are the people who join these groups typically struggling workers? The Jan 6 mob seemed to be mostly relatively well-off small business owners and the self-employed. Who else has time to do all this stupid shit? And all that money to waste on guns and LARPy gear?
Exactly. Broke people can't just up and travel to DC for a week. Where I live we have 3 downtown restaurants owned by J6ers. 🙄
The last time it got close to this bad, it ended up in the Oklahoma City Bombing.
What's going to happen this time?
It’s not something that’s always in the forefront of my thoughts, but I’ve been expecting something like that since qanon took off
Before the OKC there was Ruby Ridge Massacre and Branch Davidian Cult Massacre which one could say led directly to the retaliation against the FBI.
Until the javkboots bomb a whole city block like the MoVE bombing in Philly 1985, I’ll say things are pretty tame comparatively.
Pretty tame? I’d bet things are going to get more and more heated as we get closer to the election.
I get what you're saying and I wonder also. But at the same time, the terrorism has been happening; look at all the racially motivated attacks we've seen since 2016.
I expect more. But to your point i wouldn't be surprised to see another major act of domestic terrorism on par with the Oklahoma City Bombing.
I feel like things are way, way worse than they were back then. Way worse than it's been since the civil rights era.
Which one?
To be clear I know which one you were referring to. But isn't it kinda fucked up that there's been enough that you might even have to stop to ask that for a second.
I see "anti-government" and "against government tyranny" in this story a lot, but these people are NOT anti-government. They're very pro-government, as long as the government uses its power to enforce their beliefs. They're very willing to use the power of government to enforce the laws as they see them, and ignore the laws they don't like.
The only ones to blame for the rise of fascism are the fascists. They choose to support an ideology of bigotry and genocide. They choose to act that way.
All you're doing is enabling them by making them out to look like victims when they are anything but.
Because decades of nonviolence used as propaganda made them easy to manipulate and abuse. That's why.
I know it's easy to see things that way but the reality is they're people and if we went to move into a better future then we're going to have to work out how to convince people to move forward with us.
It saddens me how many purportedly on the left seem to want nothing but conflict and violence. It feels like they're working to try and make things worse simply so they can feel some foolish sense of pride at being right or play out some childish freedom fighter fantasy.
For the last 40 years, boomers have had a stranglehold on government power. And you know what they say. The good die young. What's left in charge are some of the most distilled evil, brain addled geriatrics. With little in the way of actual ideas about solutions. Only clinging desperately to power and relevance. To the detriment of everyone else.
This is such a tiring generalization. Boomers, like the rest of Americans, had been detached from politics for much of their lives. You realize most every president has been near a 50/50 split for vote? It's not like Reagan won with 80% of the vote, which the majority voting age at that time was boomers.
Who has a stranglehold on government power is corporations. Fight the real enemy, not the people who for much of their lives (at least half of them) were trying to do the right thing.
But do we out-gun them?
I don't think any civilians should be able to own firearms, but those MAGA cunts own them and you can be damn sure I'm not going to let them get one up on me.
Everyone, buy a gun, train thoroughly, and don't let these assholes bully us into letting them run the country.
Unfortunately this is the way.
This isn't a game, the police will not protect us, that's been shown. They'll happily club an old lady to the ground and shoot you in the face with rubber bullets if you get near them. I tell my friends as often as I can now is the time. Get a gun or two (a long one a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic medic training (you just need to know how to stablize somebody). Start networking with like-minded people around you. Learn how to rely on yourself and your community. The rightwing wants to install a theocracy in the U.S. in disregard of whatever personal freedoms you hold dear and they're very close to accomplishing it.
In Upstate NY? Most likely so. I grew up poor, in a family that relied on hunting for food. I'm significantly more financially secure now, but I've still two long barrels locked up with a fair amount of ammo.
Just in case.
Everyone, buy a gun, train thoroughly, and don’t let these assholes bully us into letting them run the country.
Yeah, because if there's one thing we know, it's that more guns will solve all the problems.
What's distressing is that while the extreme-right may be a minority, republican supporters are something like 40%+ of the US electorate. There are tens of millions of people who hold those views.
I always think it's funny how these hypocratic douchbags will wear masks in public to prevent people from recognizing them but wont wear one to save their neighbors life.
I also think it's funny how they claimed having military and police joining the groups that they know what they're doing, when these people spend their lives being told exactly what to do, how to do it, and what to think about it.
Last note, looked this one up just to be double sure, how they got a guy with the name Mizrahi to join a white power hate group when that name has origins rooted Jewish and Israeli cultures is beyond me. How people can be convinced to go against their own best interest is beyond me.
Reminds me of the movie easy rider, and that movie was made in the sixties but its still so relevant, every time people start trying to live freely
“Oh no. What you represent to them is freedom.”
“What the hell’s wrong with freedom, man? That’s what it’s all about.”
“Oh yeah, that’s right, that’s what it’s all about, all right. But talkin’ about it and bein’ it – that’s two different things. I mean, it’s real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. ‘Course, don’t ever tell anybody that they’re not free ‘cause then they’re gonna get real busy killin’ and maimin’ to prove to you that they are. Oh yeah, they’re gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it’s gonna scare ‘em.”
“Mmmm, well, that don’t make ‘em runnin’ scared.”
“No, it makes ‘em dangerous.”
It's tempting to dwell on the hypocrisy, after all, surely saying one thing and doing another should be the ultimate way to scare people away from your ideology. Even the Right is obsessed with highlighting perceived inconsistencies and hypocrisies from the Left. But at this stage in the game, with climate change, culture wars, and a fractured population that shares no common values, hypocrisy is small potatoes. Let's hold people's feet over the coals and make sure that the right policies get passed.
Law and order? So they also want Trump in prison?
No just minorities.
Don't forget gays, trans, Jews, Muslims, Catholics, unmarried women... anyone that isn't a white, Christian male.
As a Democrat from upstate NY let me tell you why the rural areas are dark red: NYC seems to be all that matters.
At least 50% of NY's population lives within 50 miles of NYC and I wouldn't be surprised to find out its closer to 65% or 70%. Of course it gets the most attention. I get why people living outside that area would be upset but they cant be surprised.
You see the same thing in every state with a large metro area. There's always griping from western and central MA but the fact is 75% of the population lives in the Boston metro area.
The issue, addressed in the article, is that these rural areas used to have industry that gave people a sense of purpose. Now the choices are basically move to a city, die of a heroin overdose, or join a right wing militia. We need to give these people something to do that's beneficial and where they feel they're contributing to their communities, otherwise, they're going to be wooed by groups with ulterior motives that dress their goals up in rhetoric of service and cohesion.
its the same on the other coast... Seattle and the i5 area are what keep Washington blue. There are some deep red parts of Washington state and its frightening. As someone that looks like my father (Anglo Saxon) but identifies with my mother (Lakota), it is a surreal experience sometimes. People are fucking crazy and the people who think they are powerful (the deep red) because they are loud are going to have a very rude awakening if there is a violent revolution. They do not have the numbers to repel an angry populace that is fleeing the cities.
That's the entire planet. Metropolitan places are metropolitan. Homogeneous places are filled with ignorance and prejudice.
NYC matters a whole lot fucking more than Mechanicville. What do they even want?
NYC has a shit ton of economic and cultural output. It matters.
I get that people might feel bad that they're seen as irrelevant or uninteresting. But, uh, tough?
All citizens deserve representation. Taxation without representation is why the USA was founded in revolt against the British.
Democrat in NYS here. The right wingers I know are often pissed that we have to obey laws that make sense for cities but don't make sense for rural areas.
Similarly, they get pissed that billions of dollars go to NYC when we have important bridges and roads that have been closed for years.
I understand why it is that way. I understand it's hard to have it any other way. And I understand our country is facing more important things right now. But I can also sympathize a bit.
NYC is the money maker because money gets put into it which makes it the money maker which is why money gets put into it, etc.
A lot of these areas used to be economically successful and aren't anymore. It does suck that I'm stuck here due to family and friends. Sure I could pack up and move to a liberal city but I'd be leaving a lot behind and my son would be without any extended family. Can't do it.
Lack of diversity, the higher degree of isolation in rural/suburban life, and higher amount of churchgoers getting preached hate probably has something to do with it too.
So funny, the proud boys guy was of Mexican descent, the guy in this article seems of middle eastern descent, can they really be this dumb and support white supremacy ideology?
Let us not forget the Founding member Proud Boys Gavin McInnes, who made an angry video sodomizing himself to own the libs. The proud boys REALLY don’t like talking about ol’ Gavin.
There’s still Slavic nazis.
post 2024 election, J6 2 electric boogaloo succeeds, some lawmakers are dead, others tied up
Enlightened centrists: Come on guys we can't take back the capital they're just sad about their local economy yeah they took congress but yall being mean and calling for them to be forcibly arrested is so much worse!
First time I've seen somecunt with more flags than brain cells
I assure you that is not a rarity in rural US.
Take a trip down to a beach in the outer banks. Never seen so many trucks and American flags practically parked in the fuckin ocean.
Upstate New York was the first place I saw the all black American flag.
My God! These hams aren't Steamed at all!
Not in Utica, no.
So they claim it is NRA country, and that they are rattlesnakes that one should not tread on.
Add this together and deal with rattlesnakes the American way: Simply shoot them.
Absolute dumbasses. The lowest achievers from high school, never left town, and signed up for Facebook one day, and now here we are.
In my state, claiming to be part of a militia, unless you've been specifically called up by the Governor, or activated by the feds somehow or another, is a felony.
These groups needs to be considered terrorists, their assets seized, and their presence made illegal. Their goal is the violent oppression of minorities in violation of the Constitution.
Long time ago the Supreme Court said advocating to overthrow the government is protected First Amendment speech, and that made sense when I learned about it but now I think it was a mistake, said from a place of great comfort.
“Law and Order” says the party voting for guy with 2 impeachments, 70+ indictments, and being charged for treason.
Fuck these shitbags
I will keep saying this like a broken record:
"Law and order" is a dogwhistle that means "oppress minorities"
Trump Declared Himself the ‘President of Law and Order.’ Here’s What People Get Wrong About the Origins of That Idea
Except from above:
From "law and order" to MAGA - why dog whistles may be even more powerful than overt appeals to racism.
Pass it on.
Sounds about right.
Just like States Rights meaning "WE get to decide how to oppress our minorities, not the government."
Yep. Laws can be un just. And the order corrupt. That's why they like them. Fuck yer law and order. Give me justice and peace.
They can still call themselves that, because no matter what happens to "their guy" it will NEVER be "real." It will always be "the deep state" or "liberal biased judges" or "fake Republicans that are really Democrats."
I'll yell this from the rooftops every goddamn chance I get:
WE HAVE A GIGANTIC PROPAGANDA PROBLEM!
I'd argue it's stagnant wages plus a rising cost of living creating enough anxiety and depression for conmen to take full advantage of, followed by years of propaganda.
There's a simple reason why: wages have been stagnant for decades and vehicles have sold for roughly the same prices for decades after adjusting for inflation. When things are further apart you put a lot of miles on your vehicle very fast (easily 10-20k miles a year if you have a relatively short commute and limited social life)
A single vehicle costs about as much as an individual's median annual income in most rural areas now, and because individual privately owned cars are the only transportation, plus services are far more centralized now (meaning you have to travel to the next town for this that or the other) you truly need 1 vehicle per adult
Why are they wearing masks now? Couldn't do it in 2020?
You see, the masks they told us to wear in 2020 weren't "patriotic." The masks they wear today protect "freedom." I hope I've cleared that up for you.
TLDR the right is full of shit.
Masks to protect people's health is fascist.
Masks to protect your face from being recognized during your violent overthrow of your area is eagle fucking freedom.