Most Americans want to electrify their homes — if they can keep their gas stoves
Most Americans want to electrify their homes — if they can keep their gas stoves
Two things here. I was forced to go induction when I moved house about fifteen years ago, and I love it. It's just better than gas. I'm terrible at many things, but I'm a good cook, and I can say, there's nothing I can do - nothing - that isn't better on induction. Admittedly, not crazy about the waste of new things, but even so, worth it.
Also, turns out, Big Natural Gas lied to you. It's dangerous (which the article states). This is a carrot and stick. I'm all electric, and working on solar soon.
Agreee, and a third thing. Gas usage for cooking is so small, it's really a non-issue.
Gas usage for heating is the big one we need to curtail. Having a culture war on cooking ranges is a distraction.
It's not a distraction so much as it's the bait. Gas cooking gets the utility serviced to the building, which enables the gas furnace vs electric heat pump conversation. Gas furnace is cheaper up front, so that's what goes into suburbia.
Builders and developers will always do the absolutely cheapest thing possible to stay competitive, and will only do better when they're either legislated to or consumers demand it. Home builders associations lobby to keep minimum requirements ... minimal, and most consumers just see pretty showers and big kitchen islands, so this is why we still build houses like it's 1980.
Always amuses me how many people care about gas mileage on a $50k car but couldn't give two shits if their $2m home is efficient.
Source: I'm a home designer who frequently has this conversation and that's usually how it goes down.
However, gas stoves will still kill you. They won't kill the environment as bad as they kill you, true, but you're still dead.
the issue about it being literally poisonous for humans is kind of a big deal, regardless of how much gas you use. Domestic range hoods do FA.
If you want to keep your gas stove despite the very real health implications, that is a poor choice.
If your pans are taking time to heat up, you probably had resistive plates, not induction. Induction is FAST - fast to heat up, but also fast to cool down. It's very similar to cooking on gas.
Try curved induction plate. Wok doesn’t work with flat induction plates because the moment you start moving it, you’re not heating it anymore.
Induction is objectively superior in heating speed and heat control. But if your cooking technique doesn’t work with it, the previous statement is meaningless.
this is why big gas is cranking up the propaganda on stoves. induction stoves are better, don't believe them
Why are they better?
Pollution and home safety aside. I found it nice to pinpoint my desired heat. It works so fast and accurate that I got consistent pancakes like i never used to before.
They don't require an explosive to be pumped into your house.
While I don't agree they're better, a key feature over conventional electric (and one of the main benefits of gas) is that the stove surface doesn't inherently retain heat. They get hot, but only because the pan is hot. When you turn down the heat, it's immediate, like a gas stove.
I don't know about how fast they can heat; gas can output a ridiculous amount of BTUs, but at 240v I wouldn't be surprised.
Better air quality, otherwise they are merely not as inconvenient as other types of electric stoves.
But you need to buy new induction capable pots for them and the pulsing heat they make takes some time to get used to.
In addition to the other comments about it being just as quick, if not faster and easier to get a consistent heat, I also found the noise level was way better - it'll hum if the pan isn't centered properly, and the power is turned up, but when simmering, it's pretty much silent which was weird but suprisingly nice.
Instantaneous control over temperature without the safety issues of gas
Safer, cheaper, cleaner.
Safer being no indoor air pollution and to cook surface doesn't get hot at all. You can literally put a piece of paper between the pan and the cooktop and it will cook without burning the paper.
no open flame
I didn't have a gas stove until I was in my late 40's. I will not willingly go back to conventional electric. Gas stoves are better. Finer control, faster temp changes (esp. when decreasing).
I'd be willing to try an induction stove. They're rare in the US, but my limited experience with them was positive. Not quite as nice as a gas stove, but miles better than an conventional electric range, and good enough that the easier cleaning would tip me over.
You mention propeganda; it's odd that the only propeganda I encounter is the anti-gas kind. It's non-stop on NPR and social media. I haven't heard or read a single pro-gas piece.
Edit: I think you were only talking about induction, so I changed some phrasing.
Gas stoves are better. Finer control, faster temp changes (esp. when decreasing).
Gas stoves are better in some ways, but “finer control” is debatable. If you turn the knob from 0 to 10, it’s obvious that the energy output is non-linear. On my stove the flame has like 50% of its increase between level 2 and 3 or 4. You also have a more narrow range of heat with gas. That is, the lowest setting has to be high enough that the flame does not blow out, so the min heat is higher than the min level on electric. Electric also gets hotter than gas on the high end.
With electric you get precise control. Power level 5 gives exactly half the heat energy that 10 gives; power level 6 is exactly triple the heat of power level 2. You don’t get that precision with gas. You can only eye-ball it which means harder to get reproduceable results.
You probably meant to say gas gives you /immediate/ control. Conventional electric is quite slow, but induction is fast.
I haven’t heard or read a single pro-gas piece.
Right-wing media apparently. Not American, but from what I gather if you watch NPR, you're a communist and a homosexual. So that means you won't be watching real American media like Fox News.
Stuff like this from a member of congress:
"I’ll NEVER give up my gas stove. If the maniacs in the White House come for my stove, they can pry it from my cold dead hands. COME AND TAKE IT!!"
https://twitter.com/RonnyJacksonTX/status/1612839703018934274?t=ptxUxaAhqE1ax8FwY15cyA
GF was a professional cook for 15 years, still prefers our induction stove to the gas stoves she worked on all this time.
This here shows where the propaganda appears:
When people think of electric stoves, they think of resistance not induction. If people had more experience with induction, I'm sure they'd be less resistant to the change.
I tried induction using a plugin electric one burner mini appliance. Its not even the whole real thing and its a great experience.
Just picked new appliances for our house. I wanted to look at induction but the ones that were within budget had some questionable reliability in the reviews. However we made sure we have the beefy outlet so we can upgrade as the price comes down. I miss cooking with gas but new electric stoves and some good pans are not that bad. It’ll hold us over until upgrade time… I hope.
induction is nice, and the old school induction are fine if all you do is casual cooking. there's no reason to give big gas more dependence
Old school resistance you mean
In my experience both have their upside and downside. I only ever use my resistance stove to braising or stewing, anything that require simmering for long hour, as it provide a consistent heat throughout the cooking process.
This should be required watching for every moron who claims gas is better.
If you need that instant temperature drop, remove it from the heat??
Also, induction is even better. Hopefully they become affordable and not priced like fancy appliances in the next decade.
The main advantage for gas isn't speed, it's control. I have both gas and electric, standard halogen etc type stoves are junk compared to the fine (also instant, consistent, and reliably easy to gauge) control that gas hobs provide. Not to mention a very even heat . But I agree modern induction finally provide that similar level of control (though the one induction hob I've used, while excellent granular control, did seem to heat unevenly requiring the pan to be regularly turned to avoid one-sided burning).
did seem to heat unevenly requiring the pan to be regularly turned to avoid one-sided burning).
That's due to the heating area being incredibly tiny on various crappy induction stoves.
I've had a different experience with gas stoves... many of the standard ones can't be turned down low enough. Simmering something or just keeping it warm is a challenge because there's too much flame. Really easy to burn sauces or hard to keep them from boiling after they're done and you just want them to stay warm.
When shopping for appliances for a new house a few years ago I had to pay quite a bit extra to get a higher-end gas stove that had a dual ring of burners that could be turned down lower. In retrospect I wish I'd simply went electric.
Induction is better in every way, like power output, heating speed, and control, except being able to lift the pan freely wok style. Cooking with gas indoors is totally stupid.
IKEA has induction cooktops for like $600 or 700 bucks. They're made by Frigidaire and are backed by a 5-year warranty... If you buy from home Depot that same Frigidaire cooked up, you could only get a 1-year warranty. Otherwise it's the same exact product.
Okay, the price went up a little bit:
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/saerklassig-induction-cooktop-black-20462066/
Are induction stove tops still expensive where you live? I just bought one used from a colleague at work and will wire it up today. I haven't really tried to get a good overview of the market since I didn't buy a new one, but I got the feeling that it doesn't exactly come with a hefty price tag nowadays.
I've been using a standalone portable induction system whenever I didn't need 2 or more pots/pans at the same time, so I have some experience how neat the technology is. The fact that it wastes no energy going past the pot (like gas), doesn't require a perfectly sized pot to maximize efficiency and reacts instantly to changes when I turn the knobs made it a very desirable purchase for me. And the fact that it's a fast way to heat your food. I doubt that I'll be using my water kettle to pre-heat my pasta water anymore.
Heat storage effect -as soon as you put anything in cold in the pan the whole element goes cold and it takes ages to reheat. Unlike a gas flame.
And "induction" heating is 90% conduction - only a tiny part of the pan is inducted and then the heat has to conduct to the rest of the pan. So in some ways its worse than a conventional electric hob because the heating is so uneven, and you still get the heat storage effect.
No it's not. Buy a decent one and they work really well. I've never had any issues with hotspots.
Induction is great, switch 1 yr ago. Most cookware works, not just cast iron.
Pro tip: if want to know if your pan works with induction, take a magnet and see if it sticks to the pan. If it sticks, it will heat!
Some non-magnetic cookware can still be used on induction heaters
Lazy tip: get the induction thing. See which pans still work before buying anything new.
Bro induction stoves are a order of Magnitude better and less dangerous.
People here seem unaware that there exists a 3rd option that isn't either gas or induction - a ceramic hob is electric, heated coils under glass, but you can use it with any pot or pan, so there's no need to spend all that extra money replacing all your cookware, and the hob itself is cheaper too.
And they're terrible at cooking: any change in temperature, including heating up takes a ton.
They've served me perfectly well for over a decade.
The difference in supposed quality wouldn't be noticeable to most while the difference in cost definitely would be. ¯(ツ)/¯
I like my 2012 electric stove. I don't notice any difference in cooking experience when I use my parents' gas stove at their place, except the flames require more aggressive ventilation
Not unaware, just not mentioning it as an option because it's so inferior.
I got an induction system yesterday and ripped my old ceramic one out. I mean, it worked okay apart from the fact that it was slower and would take a while to cool down again.
What always bothered me was not always having the ideally sized one and seeing all the red glow around the bottom of the pot or pan. "Fuck, I'm wasting 30 % energy right now..."
How many tons of co2/methane are emitted annually from residential ovens and ranges?
I feel like this number is small and am curious if anyone has chased this rabbit.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.0c00437
Electrifying everything but the gas stove means keeping the entire gas distribution system, which leaks like a sieve.
I cut our gas line 2 years ago from our house! Feels good. Also didn't want to have to invest in a seismic shut off gas valve.
And the heat pump gives us air conditioning, which is a win-win.
Spent the first 1/3 of adult life with gas and the latter 2/3 with electric. It's not hard to adapt cooking methods. Food still comes out just fine. It also makes one more adept at cooking when say, traveling and having to use who knows what terrible stove/cooking object.
I'd much rather figure out how to adapt to an electric cooking device that I could 100% self-power if need be, than continue to use an explosive cooking device pumping chemicals I don't want into my home because the natural gas companies don't processed the gas to remove them.
Gas had a place in homes in the 19th and early 20th century when we didn't know better, not anymore.
What do you mean by self power? Cause you're not using an exercise bike to power it. You wouldn't even get close.
I love induction, myself, but if you need a flame, there's countertop burners to help with the transition. No need to pipe gas through the whole city. There was just a gas explosion in an empty house (two days after closing!) down the road from us.
Apparently this is one of the big reasons gas is so popular in restaurants. No need to pipe gas or put in higher voltage electricity. Just attach a gas bottle.
There is a lot of tall about everyone replacing their stoves but it's expensive and really not needed. You can do 90% of your meals with counter top appliances and be good to go.
We have the following: portable induction cooktop top, 6 and 3 qt instapot, 5qt air fryer, and electric hot water kettle. These devices are used nearly everyday and if we need to use the gas stove we do, but it's pretty rare.
When the kitchen is renovated, an induction stove will be purchased, but for the last 5 years our counter top chefs have been great.
I bought a replacement induction cooktop last year and it's an absolute game changer, but we went from an old crappy electric cooktop that was just awful.
Any Asians, specifically Chinese in here with induction stoves to give us a feedback? How does it work with thin steel woks?
I’ve not used one myself but my workplace cafeteria occasionally does made-to-order wok lunches where they pull out induction woks where the induction surface is parabolic so the wok can have the proper wok shape (not a flat bottom). When they crank the heat up, it’s clear from the immediate sizzling that the heat comes fast enough.
No matter what type, at home you won't have the heat directly on the sides.
Just learned they exist but there's curved induction plates available on Amazon designed for woks
not Chinese, but I cook a lot with a wok. I also have a single induction cooktop and surprisingly, the wok has enough iron to work with it while some old cheap conventional cookware did not. However, wok cooking needs to be hot all over the wok and not just in that little point where the wok is close enough to the induction coil.
I have a conventional propane stove which I need to keep, because here in Puerto Rico the power system is quite unreliable (especially during a bad hurricane year). But the conventional stove burners are not really hot enough. With a 1/16 - inch drill bit I could increase one of the burners capacity substantially. I painted the stove knob red so people have some warning when they light that burner! It burns more gas, but wok cooking is really fast, so in the long run it is probably more efficient than lots of other cooking approaches.
I would definitely consider a wok-shaped induction heater. Induction heating is quite remarkable.
Thanks for the feedback. That's my situation in South East Asia, power can be unreliable at time. I cook with a gas stove and have a portable electric stove as a backup if I run out of gas in the middle of my cooking.
I used to cook with a high pressure stove (the ones you see in Chinese restaurant) that are perfect for woks but my wife was afraid I would burn down the house so I switched to a regular gas stove.
Induction could be an option in the future though, if it allows for that fast heating/cooling style of cooking I use.
Demand the best cooking experience, get a propane tank installed, and use that to cook. Heating with natural gas is the big pollution source, and heat pumps (even if the electricity is generated from natural gas) beat it for total system efficiency.
If you want the best cooking experience you should ditch the gas all together. It's way, way worse at cooking.
If you want to keep gas there is only 1 acceptable use case: A torch burner for a wok.
I don't get it either. I always had standard electric in places where I lived until now. My first gas stove: 1. Often smells of gas which implies a slow leak which is scary 2. Isn't vented at all, so it's spewing who the fuck knows what, even when it's working properly. Give me an induction surface and a big air fryer and I'm happy.
And instant pot style automatic pressure cookers are amazing. I can prepare dry beans to perfection in under an hour using a quarter the energy of even an induction stove, and using less water too (because the heat and steam are mostly retained)
I have two!
"Took 3x as long and burnt my food" I honestly don't see how these things can both be true. You either cooked it too long or too hot.
Induction only drawback is the need for more expensive cookware.
For me, induction and cast iron is a match made in heaven.
For me pretty much everything but the china special supports induction. The only stuff I have that I can't use with it is either old (20+ years) or was the cheapest option in the store and it's generally not too good (a student needs to start somewhere)
Aluminum is stupid popular in my country, being cheap, affordable and pretty resistant. Most people resist moving to induction as it will require purchasing new pots and pans.
A stainless steel 25cm frying pan, of good make can cost anywhere from €35 to €70. If not more. I'm keeping on the affordable range, not crazy designer stuff.
The equivalent aluminum can cost between €10 and €20.
I mean you can get a good lodge cast iron pan for like $25, so it's not really even that expensive. Sure the fancy ones are $100-200, but (don't tell the cast iron fanatics) they're only marginally better than lodge, and mostly because of things like aesthetics, ergonomics & weight than cooking performance.
Cast iron is expensive. Between the material itself and the late hype for this particular type of kitchenware, price are high.
I bought my first cast iron pot for €45. It's a 4 litre, so not that big.
I recently bought in a promotion a skillet and grill for €40, as a promotion, but each piece should have cost of around €40/piece. Most won't fork that much.
Right now, I'm thinking about a nice paella or mushroom ragu to really break in the skillet.
I'm an indifferent cook, so I don't really have a dog in this hunt. But I'd like to continue to have natural gas to run my whole-home generator in emergencies.
I'd love to electrify my stove (and don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be whiny about it, I really do want to) but it has to be capable of getting a pan wok burner hot. I also cannot stand glass tops. Is there anything for me? I tried 2kw induction burner once with a heavy cast iron pan, and it was glacial compared to gas. I know people say they work great but how much do you have to pay to get one without glass that can get a pan literally smoking hot in under 2 minutes like gas can?
It’s the oven, not the stovetops, where gas is most useful.
Gas ovens give moist heat which is good for baking moist foods like cakes. Electric ovens give dry heat which is good for foods that should be crispy (pizza crust). Ideally an oven would offer both kinds of fuels. Europe lacks in this regard (no thermostatic gas ovens anymore!).
Energy efficiency aside, the stovetop debate is somewhat silly in comparison because you can cook anything on either stove and adapt to the control.
I started baking bread during the pandemic and bought a spray bottle and filled it water.
Does the trick for me.
My electric oven has some sort of steam-bake option.
Seems like you could just add some water to the oven and get the best of both worlds from an electric oven in that case.
Wouldn't it be far more ideal for the electric oven to have a way of introducing moisture instead of requiring all the components for a separate fuel source?
It does. Stick a pan with water in it in the oven with your baked item. This is necessary even for gas ovens, if you require a moist cooking chamber.
The air inside a gas oven isn't especially wet at 400°F, because of the inverse relationship of temperature and relative humidity.
A simpler design is an advantage in itself but it doesn’t cover all factors (e.g. pricing).
If your closest power plant burns fossil fuels, then there’s a big inefficiency at the power plant which still has the emissions followed by a considerable inefficiency in the transmission of electricity and still some heat loss from the wall to the food in converting electric back to heat. Electric heat is more efficient if you only measure from the wall to the food. It’s overall less efficient because you have fuel → heat → steam → turbine → electricity → transmission → heat conversion (lossy at every step), when you could simply have fuel → transmission → heat. And as a consequence electric is usually more costly. Exceptionally, some regions manipulate the energy pricing in order to make electric nearly as economical as gas.
So whether gas makes economical sense depends on where you are. The prices can also swing especially in Europe due to the Russian war. Thus having both options is ideal once you consider pricing (esp. fluctuating pricing). Having both options hedges against price swings and at the same time gives you the option to choose the kind of heat you need for what you’re preparing.
power outages
Some folks live out in the sticks and have frequent power losses. Every storm is likely to cause a power outage in some remote areas where the power lines are near trees. And because those communities are small, response time is slow. So the power can be out for days. Several times this happened to someone in my family when they had a cake in their electric oven. The cake would have been ruined had they not had the option to transfer the cake to a propane gas grill.