1y ago

Carmakers Push Forward With Plans To Make Basic Features Subscription Services, Despite Widespread Backlash

www.techdirt.com Carmakers Push Forward With Plans To Make Basic Features Subscription Services, Despite Widespread Backlash

Automakers are increasingly obsessed with turning everything into a subscription service in a bid to boost quarterly returns. We’ve noted how BMW has embraced making heated seats and other fea…

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1y ago

Carmakers Push Forward With Plans To Make Basic Features Subscription Services, Despite Widespread Backlash

www.techdirt.com /2023/12/05/carmakers-push-forward-with-plans-to-make-basic-features-subscription-services-despite-widespread-backlash/

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1y ago

Carmakers Push Forward With Plans To Make Basic Features Subscription Services, Despite Widespread Backlash

www.techdirt.com /2023/12/05/carmakers-push-forward-with-plans-to-make-basic-features-subscription-services-despite-widespread-backlash/

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131 comments

The simple answer is "REFUSE TO BUY THE SHIT!"
It is literally that simple. I can't think of a single person that HAS to buy a NEW car. Keep what you have or buy used. Tell the dealerships and auto makers to fuck off! Explain why a person ever has to buy a NEW car.
As long as people are stupid and buy it the auto makers WILL continue on this path.
- The simple answer is “REFUSE TO BUY THE SHIT!”
  "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
  The reality is, individual boycotts don't do shit because people who care about their property rights are outnumbered by dipshit consumer whores by a dozen to one (if not worse). The only way to actually fix this is regulatory action by the FTC to outlaw this shit as the blatantly obvious violation of the doctrine of first sale that it is.
  
  Also an obvious indicator of the need for something comparable to the GDPR to keep this shit manageable going forward.
  
  The problem solves itself with decent right to repair
  
  Sounds like we need a reduction in dipshits!
- Enshitification isn't solved by voting with your dollar. If it did, the printer market wouldn't be the shit show that it is. You can't vote for the good if all the manufacturers mutually agree to only produce shit. Only regulation will keep them in line.
  (inb4 "brother is better", I am aware that brother printers are generally better, but they are far from good.)
  
  Especially when the majority of people will litterly drink shit milkshakes every damn day before they ever dream of using something that isn't their preferred brand or might require accepting some modest trade-offs.
  We all suffer from enshitification because the "average consumer" makes it profitable with their apathy, their ignorance, and their laziness. And there's nothing we can about that. We're stuck in these markets with them, and they make up the majority, so they set the trends.
- Sadly, people are not rational, and will buy the new car because it makes them feel good. They'll give them a year of free features and people will forget all about it because it's a free year and "a $5,000 value!"
  I've only ever bought one new car, and that got dieselgated. I will never buy a new car again, and you won't, but there's not enough of us to stop this from happening.
  "You will own nothing and be happy."
  
  What is diesel gated?
- I got an 03 Jetta in good trim with a 5-speed (which hardly anyone makes anymore). I’m gonna keep that fucker alive even if I have to turn it into the car of Theseus.
  
  I have a Samurai of Theseus.
  But, My wife drives a 2017 Mirage G4 with a 5 speed, and we are going to keep that thing alive however we can. And it's fairly easy, because the Mirage is very simple and is made to be easy to repair.
- I will probably continue to buy new cars as I can spend my hard earned on whatever I want. Everyone’s financial situation, wants and needs are different… you shouldn’t bundle everyone else into your opinion.
  That said, I wouldn’t buy a car that has a feature that I need locked behind a subscription.. I would just buy one that suits. I am not loyal to any particular brand so I don’t care.
- Where will all the used cars come from?
- A better solution is to counter market these products. Invest time in spreading content that tells other people how shit these products are. Not buying it doesn't do much. But spreading the good word does. Its why they pay so much to advertise and market
- The only reason I see is for increased safety ratings, but sadans will never win with the trucks people drive around in now :(
- So no ford, bmw, merc, tesla and who else so far?

"Corp execs literally don't care about your bitching, and will perfectly coordinate with other companies corp execs to make sure the same blanket policy is pushed and agreed upon by everyone else in the industry, thus making it the new standard and leaving the customer with no choice against it, for the 69 millionth time"
- Just a reminder, such collusion is supposed to be illegal.
  But we don't pay attention to those laws anymore.
  
  The people who made those laws don't care nor enforce them because they're on the payrolls of the people breaking them. Were so fucked as a country.
- "Congress reports that they don't see the issue, one congressman said 'lol I don't see what the big deal is, the market will regulate itself and just don't buy a car lmao' "
- Don't blame me, I bought a KodosMobile!
- Nice!
- Good thing new cars are now out of the price range of most people. Credit is not as cheep and easy. All it would take is one place to start making cheep cars in a shed for the whole racket to collapse. And if you look at the history of consumer markets this happens often, even with the collusion and crime.
  
  And if you look at the history of consumer markets this happens often, even with the collusion and crime.
  EVs actually seem to make this more inevitable to me. Most people aren't capable of building a combustion engine and transmission, but EVs are fundamentally easier from the engineering side. There are complications with the batteries but the overall thing is a lot simpler. I think that's why there are already lots of Chinese EVs available for like half the price of anything here.

What is really happening is your car has hardware features that are being disabled, and you have to pay extortion money for the criminals to not disable them. It's ransomware as a service.
So the question is, who wants to buy from a company that is running ransomware as a service?
- The question is, what alternative are we going to have, if all auto makers start doing this?
  
  I just want a vehicle made like they used to be made. No computer chips and physical handles I have to turn to get the window down. An entire vehicle I can fix myself when things break down.
  It shouldn't be a hard ask, but here we are... Overly complex shit, with many features no one needs.
  
  You know the war that's being fought by developers against YouTube?
  Now imagine that same energy directed towards car companies.
  I guarantee you the moment this becomes a thing, there will be jailbreaking and a whole industry dedicated to making sure people know how to get all the benefits that their car has installed but not enabled.
  Because if buying isn't owning, then pirating isn't stealing.
  
  Buy base model ones that don't have all that shit anyway and install aftermarket?

*You wouldn't download heated seats would you? *
I definitely would.

- That's not the only way. Simply refuse 100% of the time to ever buy a vehicle where you have to get a subscription for nothing of value added. We have ALL the power here and we don't need guns (well, laws, ie men with guns who will force you into a cage if you don't comply) to enforce it, just don't be an idiot an buy one of these vehicles. I'll buy nothing but used cars without subscriptions if it becomes impossible to get a new one without bullshit subscriptions.
  The demand is clearly high, so if it gets bad enough I guarantee another car company is going to start up and do things better, taking business away from idiots who try shitty practices for a short-term gain and a long-term loss.
  Or at least if we're going to add a law, we need to take away two useless laws, as we have FAR too many.
  
  Distributors only sell new cars, and the subscription is included in the credit plan. New car and fleet buyers are fine with the extra security and backup these services provide.
  The distributors don't care a damn what second hand buyers think.
- it's called magnuson-moss, it already exists
  https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/managing-your-money-wisely/what-is-the-magnusonmoss-warranty-act-for-cars/1578

We need Autoworker Unions to refuse this shit with us.
- Why would they do that? This thing aligns with their interests (more money in the industry)
  
  Remind me how subscription services translate to more manufacturing jobs.
  Hell, half the point of the strike was that the corpos were keeping too much and not giving out raises

Note to self: Buy older cars without the subscription bullshit.
- They're going to write laws making older cars illegal to operate in the name of climate change. Places are already requiring the phase out of new gas and diesel vehicles with the stated ambition of completely switching.
  
  Maybe not outright outlaw, but they will be taxed out of existence. Effectively you will have the choice of paying 10k in pollution taxes or 5k for the functional brake pedal subscription, and this shit will become norm.

So it lowers the cost of the car right? Right?

"Officer, I signaled to switch lanes but I forgot to update my card on file so the blinkers won't turn on. I was on my way to get a prepaid card for the blinkers and to open the trunk so I can get my groceries out."
- No BMW owner would willing use indicators anyway.
  
  BMW Subscriber* now 🤷‍♂️

Car toys is just gonna take in the bucks. These car manufacturers are thinking they can charge a subscription fee when car toys will plug in a little doohickey they just makes your heated seats work.
- Cartoys will get a dcma notice and be sued into closing.
  They only exist because paid features is still rare. Once real money is on the line, they'll be sued or even jailed like the gaming modchip developers.
  
  I doubt that. If they can put an aftermarket car alarm, remote start, or radio in your car they can put a different module in to enable heated seats. Car manufacturers really do think they're gonna stop this from happening but in reality we already have this for a bunch of car related accessories.

"Oh no, we can't compete with Chinese manufacturers! Surely if we squeeze the customers just a little bit harder..."

The only backlash they listen to is the one to their wallets. Remember Netflix password crackdown backlash?
- The backlash where Netflix's profit went up and it was generally a success and Netflix didn't change anything at all...?
  Or was there another one I missed? Or am I confused?
  
  That's exactly my point. All this 'widespread backlash' doesn't amount to anything unless it hurts their bottom line. There was a huge backlash when netflix introduced password sharing crackdown, but it ended up a success for them.
- Sounds like we need to get the ELF and the RTR folks on a conference call.

As much as I hate what it will do to the used car market we as a people need to stop buying these new cars. Like actually make it a shameful act to even be in one of these distopian devices. People love to bully and be outraged, why not point it to something like this that can be agreed on and is not hard to fix?
- People want the newest shiniest thing. Cars are no longer tools, but status symbols. And people absolutely will not give up status.
  
  Yeah, that is why shame works so well here. Status does not work to sell if is the status is negative.

Climate conference or whatever, has nothing to say about car makers actively hindering adoption of modern engines/EV?

And this shit is why I’ll never own a Tesla — or any other make that pulls this stunt.
- Elon single handedly told me I shouldn't buy a Tesla

Just remember to not pay for the subscription and they will eventually stop this particular nonsense.

Again, I mean good luck with that I suppose. They do this and it will just accelerate the market to jailbreak cars.

Enough with the subscriptions!
- They won't stop until the air you breathe is a subscription service.
  
  https://2000ad.fandom.com/wiki/Oxygen_Board
  https://ia802502.us.archive.org/16/items/2000-ad-prog-0060_20220324/ad78a/2000AD%20Prog%200057.pdf
  
  LOL

And this is why capitalist markets don't really regulate themselves and need government intervention.
- Because the handful of of companies that buy up all their competitors will just do whatever makes the most money together and consumers have no alternatives.

If this becomes common enough there's gonna be a whole cottage industry of jailbreaking cars.
- Yep. Until the find a way to remotely brick your vehicle like how John Deere does to its farm equipment if you hack the software. Or Microsoft bricking your PC if you don't have Genuine Windows installed.
  
  Tell me more about Microsoft bricking my computer that is running unlicenced Windows.

Bought a car with a future subscription to its remote services (climate, lock/unlock, etc). Company wants $450/year for access. Guess what we aren’t going to sign up for when the free 2 year period expires?
Vote with the wallets folks.
- you bought the new car you literally failed the mission
  walk dude
  
  You beat me by 7 seconds.
  This was my first thought. "sure showed them by buying that car..."
  
  With a large family there weren’t many options. This was the best option.
- There’s a big difference between what this article is describing and what you’re describing. Remote features likeones you’re complaining about require a cellular service and while $450/year is very expensive, providing them for free would be silly.
  The article is describing built-in features with no connectivity requirements, which is like disabling your heated seats unless you subscribe. This is what is described as rent-seeking behavior and it’s very different from overcharging for operational costs.
  
  That’s fair.
  
  I just bought a cellular plan for my car: $99/yr, including streaming video and audio. That seems fair to me, given the cost of adding a tablet or something to my phone bill. You paying 4.5 times is surely a ripoff
- Same thing for me with 5g hotspot in my new car. They said "hey that's free for 6 months, along with enhanced onstar", and I replied keep it, I don't fucking want it.
  They looked at me like I was growing a second head. They said they didn't know how to deactivate it, as nobody had asked that before. My ass. They knew better than to ask for a credit card number to activate the service, at least.

Only the stupid rich people who are complete fucking idiots are gonna spend money on this. That and people irresponsible with money who are also complete morons. Anyone with a sense of financial responsibility will absolutely not buy these shitty anti consumer cars
- Only the stupid rich people who are complete fucking idiots are gonna spend money on this. That and people irresponsible with money who are also complete morons.
  Sadly that's enough people to turn a profit so the rest doesn't really have a choice. It's either a fully enshitificated car, or no car.
  
  I will build one or fucking walk
- Sure, and like with everything else the free market is controlled mostly by broke morons and rich assholes. So it'll happen anyways because those two groups will fall for it, believing they're entitled to nice things.
- And what happens when you don't have other options in the market?
  
  I'll keep driving my old car that has no wireless connectivity.
  I could also buy an old 1969 Ford Galaxie and have it fitted with an electric motor and a trunk full of batteries to build my own electric car. We can do that with any old car actually.

🎶 It's a bad idea, and they're all about it 🎶

I worked in design for a major global automaker, I designed and prototyped various user experiences around enabling/disabling features on demand, and paying a subscription. This was 7-8 years ago, and the context was developing countries and what we called "emerging markets" where people just bought bare bones base model vehicles, but there were always 1 or 2 highly desirable features they needed but could only get in a high spec model - they couldn't afford.
The idea tested very well, they could buy their cheap vehicle and then enable just the things they really need. And they would pay for that. I still think this is a valid and good use case for subscribing, in these markets and for these people.
Somewhere between then and today, sales and marketing entered the chat, and I know because I fought them tooth and nail. What I designed morphed into subscribing to everything for everyone. I don't work there any more and that's part of why.
- If the product is already on the car it is scummy as fuck to charge a subscription, the end. The higher price of high end vehicles is justified by the cost of adding those features to the vehicle. If they're already there and off, you're getting ripped off
- That doesn't solve the issue at all, the feature is there, it just isn't enabled, extremely scummy. If it was a modular design where you payed a one time fee for whatever you needed it would be less bad, not a damn subscription.

131 comments