Trump was just indicted for trying to steal the 2020 election
Trump was just indicted for trying to steal the 2020 election
Former President Donald Trump was indicted for an unprecedented third time on August 1, adding another set of serious federal charges to the mounting legal issues he faces.
When he is behind bars then I’ll celebrate. Until then. The battle for our democracy continues….
Even after he is behind bars. Crazy as it sounds, he can run for President from prison.
Not very effectively, but he can run.
One presidential candidate got 3.4% (more than all 3rd party candidates in 2020 combined) of the vote (over 1million votes) as a third party candidate while in prison in 1920.
Weird. I've heard of Americans losing their right to vote when imprisoned and yet they could run for office?
How does that work if he wins?
Might depend on why he's there.
It’ll be ~5 years before all appeals are exhausted. I’d be shocked to see that he ever eats a final conviction, and any Republican president will pardon him, living or dead.
And, even if he is convicted and not pardoned, the functional challenges of managing Secret Service protection in a white-collar prison would be daunting, not to mention that his SS detail seems to have been easily corrupted to lie for him. The SS leadership, a locus of supreme bootlickers, would likely tell an inquiring judge that it’s too difficult to protect him in any penal institution for white-collar criminals, which will force the court to choose house arrest at most.
So, it’s probable that he’ll never serve a day in jail or prison.
Lots of rich people convince judges they aren't safe in prison without the help of the Secret Service. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump could get house arrest instead of prison even without being reelected.
Also there is a VERY high chance he just straight up dies before he goes to prison, or even before the court date. Which might be the worst possible scenario, as the right wing crazies will go fucking ballistic with conspiracy theories blaming the deep state or the clintons or whoever the current boogeyman is and we will literally never hear the end of it
What's the penalty for treason?
Agreed.
This will amount to nothing, just like all the rest.
There are many who choose not to celebrate until the Orange One has had "actual repercussions".
Me? Well...
To each their own. 🥂🍻🍸🍷
Yep, I get why some would be pessimistic after years of nothing happenning to the man, but this is kinda it. I mean, what else do people expect, no due process and straight to prison? This is the worst actual outcome for him right now, and possibly the best for America. I figure he could be considered a flight risk and be put in jail pending process, but I figure this would be a worst outcome for America, considering his deathcult. You're 2 fox news articles away from them claiming be died in jail and resurrected like Jesus.
Honestly if he fled to russia and a bunch of his followers followed him, godspeed
For me, he has to either die, or be banned from holding any political position again.
The level of incredibly pissed me off.
He's garbage, and needs to be treated as such.
The Jan 6 stuff might not stick, and even if it does his supporters have plenty of mental hoops they can jump through to justify.
Those classified documents though... he ain't getting out of any of those. He fucked up big time with that bullshit. He's going down for it hard.
I just keep imagining that he's currently crying into a big mac right now. "Do you think they have Diet Coke in prison?"
“MY HAMBERDERS!!!! 😭”
To each their own indeed. If you want see this as cause to celebrate who am I to rain on your parade, I truly hope you have the right of it.
I'm just exhausted from all of the "final nail in the coffin"s this guy has had. Ive gotten excited for some actual justice just to be disappointed 1 too many times I guess. Even now, any federal charges are gonna just get pardoned as the first act of the next republican president for some quick and easy brownie points amongst their base.
The only hope for lasting consequences is realistically Georgia and even ignoring that they are pretty deeply purple, the Secret Service has pretty explicitly said they will not allow Trump to go to prison.. Now I personally am of the belief that they can pound sand since they have no jurisdiction over this. However I do not get to make the call, and as stated above I have been let down too many times..
Maybe this is actually it and maybe I'm just too jaded and not seeing the big picture.. I just can't bring myself to be optimistic anymore man
the Secret Service has pretty explicitly said they will not allow Trump to go to prison…
Woah woah woah woah, did they say this? A cursory Google search only came back with results stating he won't lose their protection in prison, not that they won't allow him to be put away.
As I have the right to celebrate all the recent unprecedented actions by DOJ (I must concede that DOJ dragged their feet on a lot of this, and that it's pretty clear there's a two-tiered system for the rich "important" types and the rest of us plebs), you certainly have the right to doubt that this all will lead to anything significant. I have nothing to support my belief that the Orange One has finally reached the "FO" stage of FAFO but the indictments that have occurred thus far. However, I will say with confidence that these indictments aren't entirely meaningless (particularly the docs case), and that their unprecedented nature should be celebrated. The DOJ has taken steps that have literally never been taken before in our history as a country (the indictment of a former president), and while some might say justice delayed is justice denied, I still think that a slow response is better than no response at all.
That all said, I understand feeling skeptical or even hopeless at this point (I certainly felt that way after Impeachment Trial 2). Here's hoping, though, that we'll at least get to witness justice finally being served and that any pardons will be moot (I mean, c'mon, the guy's old!) if a Republican president is elected again any time soon!
Lets celebrate both now and then 🍸 🍹 🥂 🍾
¡Salud! 🍾
What a dingdong he is. I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail.
Nobody knows more about prison than me. I’m the best inmate they ever had. They love me here. I have the best cell, the best food, the best friends. I’m very popular. The guards respect me. They know I’m innocent. The fake news media and the crooked Democrats put me here. They’re very jealous of me. They’re losers. They’re afraid of me. They know I won the election by a lot. I’m still your president. I’ll be out soon. You’ll see. It’s going to be huge.
I know this is a common sentiment amongst a lot of people, but the reality is he will never see prison time before he dies of old age. He will do everything in his power to draw it out and when he can’t he will flee the country
It was "common knowledge" that he wouldn't ever be charged too. The Senate and Mike Pence were pissed at him because he made them look weak. That's why no one is really defending him right now. He has so many charges that people are going to abandon him just so they don't have to answer questions about the cases.
Remember the OJ trial? This is the former president in three courtrooms (and counting!). It's going to make him look so guilty.
dies of old age
That could be tomorrow.
Well one can hope I suppose, hope is still free, lol.
Big Papa Putin may not be in a position to offer him safe harbor for very much longer.
Problem is, he's losing a lot of that power now. He doesn't have many friends in high places these days, even the supreme court has done things to rule against him. I don't doubt he'll try to draw it out, but ultimately it's not up to him anymore.
I wonder though, everyone keep saying no prison because of the SS, ex-president and all, but what mecanism would actually prevent the court from going there? Like, if the judge goes for prison or death penalty, what is gonna happen exactly? What branch of the government, and who exactly would block it, assuming the judge gives no fucks?
His Secret Service detail won't allow that to happen.
12 jurors will decide on his guilt (the standard is proof beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal case) after reviewing evidence during his trial which will probably happen next year. If found guilty, the judge will choose a sentence that's within guidelines outlined in law. Then he'll be pardoned by the next Republican president.
Unless he's the next Republican president and pardons himself, I wouldn't be so sure that he'll be pardoned.
The real weirdness happens if he is found guilty under state charges (in New York) and wins the presidency. The federal president can't pardon state charges - he would take the oath in prison!
The jury selection process will need to be particularly thorough for this trial to avoid a bias one way or another. It would be interesting to hear what questions they ask of potential jurors.
indicted = charged.
The difference between "charged" and "indicted" is who finds probable cause that you committed a crime. If it was a prosecutor, you are charged. If it's a jury, you're indicted.
Accused, legally speaking, is a noun meaning a person who has been arrested for or charged with a crime
TIL
Well, there's also "being accused".
Money seems to be the difference. I've been through the legal system and let me tell you that I wouldn't be out campaigning if I had three indictments. I'd be sitting in a cell waiting for trial or a plea deal. The fact that he has been spared the same humiliation that anyone else would have been is a crime in and of itself.
That only happens for poor people. Rich people get to live at home until they're convicted
I’m not American, and I don’t know exactly what the legal differences are between “indicted”, “charged” and “accused”. When is he going to be put in handcuffs and detained in a jail cell like a normal person would be if they were suspected of committing a crime (like stealing a handbag for example) but not convicted yet?
He is getting slightly better than normal rich person with expensive lawyer treatment.
America, as a pure service economy has prices for bribery and extortion as well as minimum service levels for the legal system. If you pay for economy (with your life) you get a defense attorney appointed by the state who sits across from the judge and DA you're going to have to deal with, and has lunch with them, or makes deals in the bathroom... They'll fight to make sure their life doesn't get disrupted a whole lot and they can keep defending the endless stream of defendants.
The middle tier is the "hire a reptable firm, and get a junior associate" level of service, that's where you get someone who's overworked, and desperately trying to keep all their partner's cases going, and they can spend 1/10th of their time on your case, they don't have any worries about not having a job though so they can dedicate the time in court to defending you.
The top tier is the "hire a reputable firm, and you get a named partner" they care about their reputation, and make sure they only take cases that will make them look good. And they look good by doing the best damn job they can in front of the cameras, in their filings, and in front of their client. You get the white glove treatment, and 90% of the time of the junior associates helping the partner.
It's no wonder why you typically only get the "Go home and sleep it off" result from an indictment from the highest tier of service.
What does it mean to be indicted?
It means he's being charged with the crime by a grand jury, as opposed to a prosecutor. So he'll be going on trial to see if he gets convicted.
A little easier to understand the significance:
A grand jury has ruled that the evidence presented is sufficient enough to warrant a trial to determine if a crime has been committed.
Typically grand juries are either random citizens (selected via jury duty), or volunteers within the community, depending on the city rules. They are not elected positions, nor are any legal qualifications required. It's simply high level evidence, and descriptions of laws that may have been violated.
It's not an indication of guilt, just that there's enough of a question that is worth holding a trial to determine guilt.
Edit - at least, that's what a grand jury usually is. I wouldn't be surprised if federal charges on a former president requires more qualified grand jurors than the baker down the street, or retired carpenter with time to kill that comprises your typical grand jury
yeah and only in our wonderful country this schmuck is allowed to run for office from jail. I thought you can't run for president after ur third indictment which he certainly has.
There's nothing in the Constitution that says you can't run from prison (Eugene V. Debs did it in 1920), and it also says nothing about three indictments.
probably if the laws written in a way that considers politicians regular people and aren't considered an exception.
For some reason the founding fathers didn't anticipate that someone running from prison could ever become president. To be fair, before this fuckin clown, nobody else did either.
lol it was one of those things that was just assumed by the general population that was never gonna happen so why worry about putting laws in place to prevent it. I think it's safe to assume that we need to put laws into to. prevent this from happening before 2027
I am so relieved that the special prosecutor is defending the rule of law with these indictments. If the Republicans (and not just Trump) got away with trying to overturn the election we could lose our democracy. We still can, but at least they are going to trial against this would-be tyrant and some of the people who helped him.
You kinda already did when the founding fathers wrote checks and balances into the constitution conveniently forgot that political parties are a thing.
There are no checks and balances if the ones that are supposed to check and balance you are on your team.
The next republican president or governor in states where he is convicted at state level will just pardon everything.
The constitution, rule of law, and will of the people means nothing to people who just want power.
This is a federal case
No it's a clear case for increasing our education budget 😉
Look at that man's face.
The living embodiment of everything I despise about my own self, distilled and propped up, for us all to marvel at. What a time to be alive.
Dear aliens,
I'm sorry. My species is a stain upon an otherwise beautiful nothing.
Maybe this country isn't so lost afterall. Maybe there is still time to turn it around.
Googles wildfire map
Sigh
We need to handle this carefully. I feel martyr vibes coming from all of this bullshit if he is found guilty. Maybe it's the part of the US I live in, and the political slant of the people therein, but I see him and his supporters using this to do something even more epically stupid than trying to invade the capital.
On the other hand, if we're afraid to prosecute insurrection leaders because of fear of resulting violence, that's kinda definitionally terrorism (and specifically losing to the terrorists).
Honestly good.
The dipshits of the republican party are already committing acts of terror in the name of protecting insert fake concern here
Like I don't know why we're treating them like a volcano about to blow, it's been blowing for years now.
I'm not American, but I've been imagining a world where magas would take over Washington with guns.
I don't want it to happen, but I see it happening. Republicans are anti government.
It would be quite entertaining, though. Not great, but still entertaining.
I agree, but I don't know what could be done differently? If people refuse to acknowledge a single thread of evidence that Trump tried to overturn a legitimate election, what can be done to reassure them if he's put in prison for doing it? The options are give him a fair trial, and sentence him if found guilty or just ignore his crimes completely.
We been fucked lol
Wasn't he indicted before ? What happens next ?
He was! He now has three indictments under his belt.
If you ask me, now we throw a few back tonight and wait for the fourth indictment coming from Georgia this month. 😎
...aight so I'm fucking stupid or something and can't figure out how to link to another user's comment (it's just the chain link icon literally on the comment right? ...but when I click that it directs to a different comment... is this a bug or am I really just stupid?) but I don't want to just steal this guy's work, some I'm linking to his profile instead:
https://lemmy.world/u/jordanlund@lemmy.one
In the comments tab, do a Ctrl+F search for "you are here" and you'll find a map of exactly what happens next in this and every other trump case.
So if he goes to federal prison, do the secret service members who are part of his detail draw straws to see who else gets to spend time being bars?
There a reasonable chance he gets house arrest or there's some special facility built for him. Alternatively he could be kept in solitary for the entire time, but that's starting to be considered torture.
Maybe, however...
The sheriff of Fulton County, Ga., said on Tuesday that if former President Donald J. Trump were to be indicted in connection with efforts to overturn the 2020 election in the state, he would not receive special treatment, and would be booked and photographed like any other defendant.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/01/us/trump-indictment-georgia.html
So there's hope he'd receive similar treatment from other officials.
I mean, he did ask to be tough on criminals...
We'll make it easy on him and put him in supermax. He'll have no security concerns whatsoever, secret service can take the rest of his life off.
He doesn't need a detail if we put him in a concrete box!
I just finished reading every last word of the indictment. Interesting read. Trump and several of his co-conspirators are absolutely fucked (IMHO; I’m no lawyer).
When I got to the end of the document I noticed a particularly poetic coincidence: “45”. As in, forty-five pages. President Forty-Five, the worst president this country has ever seen, and the first nail in his treasonous and metaphorical coffin ends with a sort of signature from the Defendent himself… 45.
Was the 45 written in sharpie?
This is great. Actual consequences would be greater. Not crossing my fingers.
Aber es war nur eine kleine Putsch!
Heckin yeah
heheheh, projection projection projection.
What do you mean by this? Like the “lock her up” thing was projecting?
his constant complaining about the election being stolen was what i meant about projection, but i guess that other thing works too lol
P. S.
Really glad you are not making the law here.
You would benefit from a remedial course in US civics.
Please educate yourself, you wouldn't want to be convicted by a mob.
Care to elaborate on how a grand jury indictment is like a mob?
Care to elaborate on how a grand jury indictment is like a mob?
The post I responded to says "why the hell so you need a judge to rule he is a criminal'. It is not the grand jury indictment (that is a different conversation to be had) it is that comment
Not exactly due process.
Does that explain my concern?
Biden will pardon him to avoid a civil war with the MAG-GOTS. But I'm just waiting for him to actually go to jail.
I highly doubt that Biden would do that lol
Trump will be barred from running, handing the election to another Republican, who will pardon Trump on day one. There, spoiled the next year and a half of American politics for you.
I'm not sure which other Republican candidates could really step up. Aside from Trump there's DeSantis, who seems to be imploding and I think hates Trump anyway, Chris Christie (who called him a 'One Man Crime Wave' lol) and most of the others I haven't even heard of before.
But there is also Mike Pence who is truly a wild card - there's a reasonable chance Trump literally tried to have him killed and yet he still defends him for some reason - so if anyone is bonkers enough to make it to the White House and then set Trump loose, it'd probably be him.
None of these charges carry with them the barring of running for office. Sedition isn't in the indictment.
He can't be barred from running. In fact even if convicted he could still be President because he's been charged with obstruction not sedition. Not a lawyer etc, but I think it's pretty clear.
The Republican Party could refuse to let him be the nominee but they know what would just cause him to run independent and split the right-wing vote so they'll support him because they want power more than anything else.
You're right.
And that sucks, because now the invisible line has been crossed not one of the parties will create laws against it happening again.
'Murica - land of the fraud, home of the deceived
None of this bars him from running.
Bet nothing is going to come of it, just like last time.
Trump pushed the big lie that the election was stolen. Trump lost in the courts[[1]](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/us/elections/trump-campaign-lawsuits.html) including the Supreme Court.[2] Then he tried to pressure state officials.[[3]](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2021/01/03/trump-pressured-georgia-election-official-call-washington-post-report-says/4119948001/) He tried to pressure Pence.[4]
So what does Trump do after exhausting all nonviolent methods of overturning the election? He turns to his supporters and lights them up making inflammatory statements such as;
He primed them for weeks.
State officials had started getting death threats weeks before the attempted insurrection following the general election.[[5]](https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/12/01/940961602/someones-going-to-get-killed-ga-official-blasts-gop-silence-on-election-threats) Trump saw first hand what violence was being created as his supporters rioted and vandalized black churches in Washington back in December.[6]
Trump didn't stop his incitement after the initial violence, he got more specific. He told his supporters how, when, and where. He gave them 18 days notice inviting them to the rally telling them to be there, that it will be wild.^[7] And on the day of the insurrection Trump told his supporters to march on the Capitol and fight like hell.
Following the riot Trump continued to promote the big lie that had incited the insurrection. After the mob was dispersed, Trump praised and sympathized with the mob in a video he released, claiming once again that the election had been stolen.^[8] Then he praised the insurrection in a tweet after the mob had been dispersed. He told his mob to remember Jan. 6 forever. He said that he loved the insurrectionists and that the violent mob were special people.
Could it be? PoppinKREAM on lemmy?!
Pardon my unculturedness but who is PoppinKREAM?
Poppinkream is on Lemmy! Good to see you here.
Damn, always good to see PK.
Thank you for continuing your hard work pk
Should mention also Trump pressed the capitol police not tk use metal detectors on the crowd and his supporters cached weapons a nearby hotel.
This was part of their "1776 plan" to seize control of government buildings including the Supreme Court and State Depsrtment, not only the Capitol.
Yeah, and his horrible remark about that:
Great to see you over here! So happy. Thanks for the great post.
My "favorite" but was when he heard that some of them had weapons that were denied access, and he angrily told his staff to let the weapons into the capital, because they weren't coming to hurt him.
This guy brought the receipts!
It's PK, they only have receipts.
Please accept this Official Lemmy Gold® for the best post I've seen so far on Lemmy:
🪙
PoppinKREAM!
https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1686534765690961925
False equivalency fallacy.