A Gun Deemed Too Dangerous for Cops, But Fine for Civilians: Police are reselling their SIG Sauer P320 pistols — alleged in multiple lawsuits to fire without the trigger being pulled — to the public
A gun deemed too dangerous for cops, but fine for civilians
It was possible but only if dropped and landing at a very specific angle and hitting concrete...
The main problem is when cops hear a new excuse, they can't wait to try it out
So when this became news, every negligent discharge by a cop (they're very frequent) was blamed on this.
Shit like this:
Shortly after dark one day in September 2022, police officers Yang Lee and Charles Laskey-Castle arrived on Milwaukee’s west side to investigate a car abandoned on the sidewalk. Lee knelt to examine the driver’s side floorboard as Laskey-Castle stood behind him. Then Lee rose — and his holstered gun fired a bullet into his partner’s leg.
Has never been able to be reproduced intentionally.
Here's an article and body cam footage:
https://www.wisn.com/article/video-shows-unintended-shooting-injuring-milwaukee-officer/45015940
Sig says the only way it could have happened was if something snagged the trigger, and yeah...
Lots of people have spent a lot of time trying to make the p320 go off on its own like cops kept saying. And like I said the only way that was reproducible was a very specific angle drop on something as hard as concrete.
Forgotten Weapons put out an interesting theory of Stacked Tolerances being the culprit.
Praise gun jesus.
Also the first drop fires were because the trigger was heavy and it's inertia was enough to "pull" the trigger as this short shows. There was a voluntary free upgrade to the more expensive, but lighter trigger. I've always wanted a SIG, but, unless I find a great price on a p229, I'm going to get an M&P 2.0.
Oof, geeze, this article was my first exposure to this issue and I hadn't considered this, but between a for profit business lying to avoid product liability lawsuits (which they probably wouldn't face anyway because court decisions have made them basically immune) and police officers lying to avoid being held accountable for their actions (which they probably wouldn't face anyway because etc.) I could believe either scenario. Honestly it's probably both at the same time.
e; Sometimes I start a comment and forget where when I come back to it
Honestly it’s probably both at the same time.
The drops were 100% real, and an unacceptable flaw that was/is definitely a liability issue for Sig... (Edited to add: this issue was just on the very first ones and has since been fixed, but the required drop to make it happen was slightly out of spec for what is normally tested for. Like I think it would pass the standard test, but the test height plus an inch or two failed?)
But while this specific one sounds rare, a gun going off in their holster isn't really that rare and happens with loads of brands of guns.
Cops are strapped all day and "open carry" where the holster isn't just exposed it's on a cluttered belt with a bunch of other stuff.
Stuff falls in the holster and moving around can apply pressure which pulls the trigger.
After, the cop will likely see the object, and just discard it to avoid blame.
Like I said, a shit ton of people both involved and not involved did everything possible to try and make stuff like cops were claiming happen in a controlled environment, no one, not even police departments, could replicate it.
This was huge news at the time in the gun community
While blaming cops is an attractive conclusion, I wouldn't straight away give SIG the benefit of the doubt when they are basically saying "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing." They have been very cagey about the whole affair from the beginning, which should be expected from a corporation on the brink of being liable of a catastrophic fuckup.
Not only have they have sold hundreds of thousands if not millions of these pistols to the public, it has been adopted as the service pistol of every US military branch. If they lose a suit and are forced to start a recall, it could very possibly sink them as a company.
It's not just Sig saying that...
No one, not even cops, can get stuff like this to replicate, even with the exact same guns that supposedly already did this.
People have looked into this before this article was written
I dunno man, I saw a video of a patrol officer taking some bags out to her car after a shift and her 320 fired in its holster and blasted part of her leg. I think one of the bags bumped the holster or something. Those things do just go off occasionally.
Those things do just go off occasionally.
Except when the reported conditions are replicated and people try over and over to get the same results...
Cops lie about negligent discharges virtually everytime a cop negligently discharges.
I would be shocked to find a single incident when the cop just flat out says:
I fucked up.
But by all means, if your hobby is defending lying fascists, don't let little things like facts or logic stop you....
rooty tooty drop to shooty
for what it’s worth, this issue is well known within the gun community and is a large sore spot for Sig enthusiasts.
it’s common place to point out this issue any time a listing for these appears in forums etc
Good that people are doing that, but I don't think that excuses Sig. Like, if Nerf sold a gun that discharged accidentally they'd probably eat a product liability lawsuit over it, I don't know why a firearms manufacturer should get a pass.
do not take anything i’ve said as any indication that Sig should get a pass.
I shoot Glock because it’s the firearm i have. i’m not into brand fanboyism
The knowledgeable people in the community do try to dissuade people from purchasing this model.
fire without trigger being pulled
a large sore spot for Sig enthusiasts.
…
The SIG P320 requires too much training and safety knowledge for the average civilian cop to use. Other non cop civilians though? I'm sure most will be fine.
That seems like one of the last features anyone would want in a gun
