Yapper has things to say about veganism

Idealism vs. Materialism in a nutshell. "Plant rights" and "universal principle of non-use"
We have big tractors to plow or fields in the west but most of the world still gets their vegetables the old fashion way, animal labor.
Wait till this person learns about migrant labor in the USA and where their fucking vegetables came from. All carnists are idealists, veganism is the only actual science here.

The arguments of non-vegans aren't meant to sway vegans. They're meant to sway themselves, and an argument doesn't have to be good to convince someone of what they already want to believe.

how is a society of nearly 8 billion people supposed to feed their families with animal use?
I'm always saying this!
I do kind of give them credit for thinking about this in term of animal labour isn't vegan, honestly. It's not a great point all in all but I bet we can get this person
- I'm pretty sure "with animal use" is a typo, by the way. They meant to say "without animal use."
  
  It is, yes, but it makes that whole post even more hilarious

I think this one post just filled out my bingo card.
- It's missing my uncle's farm but yes still about as dense with memes as lentil loaf is with protein
  
  It’s also missing the bit about vegans killing bugs with pesticides.

never trust the words that come after "honestly" or before "but"

look at the big brain on that poster.. glad they put so much thought into it so we don't have to

That doesn't even get into the ideas around plant rights, plants are literally living thinking things so why is it okay to use them
I agree, agricultural practices should definitely be changed so that plants and the animals in their ecosystems are being treated ethically.
I don't know necessarily that a tree is actually sentient but if we seriously consider it, perhaps that might lead to better environmental conservation practices as a matter of ethics.
- I don't know necessarily that a tree is actually sentient but if we seriously consider it, perhaps that might lead to better environmental conservation practices as a matter of ethics.
  They most likely are not sentient, as we currently understand or can perceive, though the complexity of the networks formed within a forest might, might, allow for something like it in aggregate. Consciousness is deeply strange, for something that should be so familiar.
  But as Angel says, here it's just a paralytic deflection. Like saying that eating plants is stealing from the animals that could eat them, therefore we're already sinners, therefore we might as well sin some more.
- Plants aren't sentient, but regardless, this person bringing up "plant rights" is just a deflection. We could handle environmental issues far better if we get rid of the nightmare that is animal agriculture, as that is fucking up the planet more than anything else. Natural ecosystems would be better for both plants and animals because we'd be without the problem of clearing vast amounts of land to grow crops to feed animals who are also responsible for a shitload of carbon emissions.
  
  I get that it's a deflection. I think the "universal principle of non-use" that other comrades mentioned is where I was actually headed with this reasoning but I didn't have the words for it. Is there any reading I can do about that?
  
  While I don't disagree about animal farming being terrible, it's impact is significant but not the top of the list by any means. Energy production dwarfs all other polluters by a large margin. 75% of greenhouse gas emissions and tons of toxic pollution. Construction is next because of all the toxic byproducts. Transportation is also worse. Agri-industry accounts for around 15% of GHG with a lot of pollution generated from food packaging. After that it's the fashion industry. While there is definitely some room for reassessing the impacts due to methodology, it's a roughly accurate list.
  Not trying to minimize, just contextualize.
  
  Plants aren’t sentient
  that's actually fairly contentious, some researchers argue that they might be
  though my answer to the "what if plants turn out to be sentient after all?" thing is i'll cross that bridge when and if we get to it

Is veganism generally against animal labor? I thought it was just the eating that veganism was about
- Veganism is opposed to all animal use—it is a principle against animal exploitation, not a diet.
- Slavery is bad.
- I don't even like my own job, I ain't gonna turn an animal into an employee.
- This community supports animal liberation as a matter of ethics. To use a definition borrowed from Wikipedia:
  The animal rights movement, sometimes called the animal liberation, animal personhood, or animal advocacy movement, is a social movement that advocates an end to the rigid moral and legal distinction drawn between human and non-human animals, an end to the status of animals as property, and an end to their use in the research, food, clothing, and entertainment industries.
  
  I would expect that of this community, but what I'm wondering is if this is common outside of marxist spaces
  
  I understand the obvious moral quandaries that come with using animals in lab testing, but what are the alternatives to that? There's only so many willing people. (I mean this in good faith I'm not trying to
  )