Free school lunches

If kids are hungry at school, that means they haven't earned their food yet.

Why do animals feed their young? Why should we not feed our children as civilized humans?
- What animals feed their young? Plenty eat their young.
- Animals are socialist and communist. I am capitalist. Capital rulezzzz!!

I have a friend who is wealthy, well off, and a retired school teacher ..... who still argues that we shouldn't subsidize free food in schools for children.
She argues that it's the parents responsibility to feed their children.
I asked her as a teacher what she would rather prefer .. a classroom where you know every child is not thinking about their hunger ... or a class where you know several kids don't want to be there because they're hungry
She still insisted it's the parents responsibility
Fuck I hate conservatives
- And what was their genius solution to if the child's parents are shit? Remove even more of their support systems and leave them to die?
  Sure love when innocent children are forced to pay the consequences of their parent's choices. Very ethical
  
  In my experience, these personal responsibility types just don't care. The children die, the parents go to jail, and this is justice because the slothful get their just desserts or something.
- Next time just tell her nope actually Jesus said it’s YOUR responsibility.
- Conservitism is the mindset of the selfish
  
  Worse than that, it's the mindset of the short-sighted. These fucking morons wouldn't acknowledge the concept of government spending with a positive ROI even if you waterboarded them with Tang.
  They'd rather create a shithole country where they have to cower inside gated communities to protect themselves from the impoverished masses instead of one where everybody is educated and prosperous, even though they themselves would be wealthier in the second case, just because they think everything is a zero-sum game and they can't win unless everybody else loses.
  
  The worst part of their mentality is that their wealth is based on taking advantage of others around them. They and their wealth wouldn't exist if not for the work and effort or coercion or abuse of others around them. They believe that they deserve their wealth because it came to them through their own personal effort alone. It's bad enough that they took advantage of others .... it's far worse to never acknowledge your role in having taken advantage of others.
  
  It’s the failure of ‘me vs us’
- Ask them if they'd rather pay for the child to be taken in to care.
  Because like $3 a day of food is a fuck of a lot cheaper than actually taking responsibility for them by removing them from an unsuitable home.
  
  This is the "public vs private healthcare" debate all over again. You can draw a diagram with crayons proving without a doubt that free public healthcare is cheaper than having to pay higher premiums because poor people use the ER as their primary care and then skip out on the bills, and they still won't get it, because they've been so propagandized by late-stage Capitalism that they actually believe "what's good for the billionaire is good for me."
  I've had these arguments countless times with people. Here's how it goes every single time:
  Them: "Why should I have to pay an extra $X a year to provide [SERVICE] for other people?"
  Me: "Because the data shows that this will lead to better outcomes overall, which in turn leads to fewer people on public assistance, saving you far more than $X a year, resulting in a net gain on your part. Here's the data, look for yourself."
  Them: "Fuck that. I don't want poor people getting free shit!"
  As long as half of the working class has billionaire Stockholm syndrome, this will not change.
  
  I always try to remind people of that fact of life
  Whenever you see people in need in society .... everyone pays for their misfortune no matter what you do or what you believe
  You can be a cold hearted conservative and you'll pay for what happens to these people in the form of higher taxes that go on to pay for increased policing, emergency medical, judiciary, general lawlessness and devaluing of your community as crime increases
  You could be a liberal or socially minded and you'll pay for taxes that go on to help these unfortunate people in the form of social programs to try to help or mitigate their lives
  However, the long term results of both these mentalities are what make the difference
  Cold hearted conservatism to poverty only makes poverty much much worse and eventually leads to a break down of society as people's lives becomes worse and worse and civilization just becomes an expensive police state governed by violence
  Socially minded supports foster young people and give them a chance to make a better future for themselves and go on to build a better society. Once you do that for a few generations, the benefits only increase with time not just for the individual but everyone in general.
- She's not wrong - it is a parent's responsibility to look after their children. But like.. I'm still happy to feed a hungry child if it needs food. Because I'm not evil
  
  I understand that and accept that ... but at the same time, if the parent is stuck without a job or access to help or just isn't capable of doing much for themselves let alone their kid, why should society punish the child for the failings of their parent? And yes you can argue that people who aren't capable shouldn't be having children but our world is filled with people who probably shouldn't have children.
  It's our job in this current life to help as many children as possible no matter their situation in the hopes that they will grow up to NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES as their parents and hopefully make a better world for future generations.
  We can't be living in this life for our own convenience all the time ... we have to make a better world for future generations who are relying on what we are all doing now.
- It's cause she doesn't have the slightest notion of what it's actually like being poor.
  
  That is the strange part .... she grew up in the 50/60s in northern Ontario from an immigrant Italian family. They had enough to get by in their childhood but they were on edge of being poor ... like everyone else in northern mining/forestry towns back then.
  They were part of the post war boom years where everyone had a chance and the rich were held down with enough taxes to fund everything the government did to build a more equitable country.
  They got theirs because they thought that it was all done just through their effort and goodness alone and never acknowledging that it was more social government that made it all possible. Now that all those government supports and checks and balances on the rich are removed, no one has a chance and these old boomers still believe that it's all up to individual effort to get by in life.

But have you considered that if the kids aren't starving, they might not yearn for the mines?

They’re required by law to be there 8+ 6+ hours. Fucking feed them.
- I’m all for free school lunches, but where did you go to school where it was 8+ hours a day? I recall school being 6.5 hours
  
  When I went to school it was 8-4.
  
  I was 7-3 in highschool, it sucked lmao
- school years generally consist of a mandated minimum 900-1100 hours spread out over 160-180 days, with the typical school day being 5.5-6.5 hours. while there is considerable variation from state-to-state, no state 'requires' 8 hours a day.

"But if we fund children how are we supposed to fund genocide and the capitalists"
Trump and the entire Republican party

How do schools manage things like veganism, religious diets, intolerances, allergies etc.? That must be a nightmare!
- It is not, all public schools where I live are prepared to handle this, there are nation-wide protocols for it.
  My kid has a severe food allergy, and has to carry adrenaline pens with him at all times.
  This was documented in the enrollment process, and this "flag" prompts action by a bunch of different people, like the nutritionist that creates the school meal plans so that they can adjust his, and also the meal prep workers, who will avoid contamination when preparing the meals.
  The health services that work with the school are also informed, and they include this in school health prep plan, which eventually causes the teacher and helping staff to receive training on how to identify allergic symptoms and how to administer the adrenaline pens, and cautions that need to be taken when food is around.
  Do you think that letting kids starve or die because of a food allergy is a better alternative, or what? This is literally what I pay taxes for, so that all kids (not just mine) can learn and have a full belly.
  
  Don't think the op was implying anything other than that food is a lot more complicated than it used to be.
  I've worked in restaurants with similar issues.
  Trying to provide at least 2 vegan options and gluten free options for starters, mains, and desserts without creating an overly bloated menu and decent variety is really a nightmare. Especially when you want to rotate dishes every month or 2.

*But feeding them doesn't benefit me.
*every republicunt ever.
- It actually does, but then one doesn’t like to offer the utilitarian argument for feeding children. If it has to be debated down at that level, the day is already lost.
- "Fuck you, I've got mine" seems to be the mantra of a shockingly large number of people.
  
  They'll still say they follow Jesus or whatever, lol. Is it illiteracy, arrested mental development or simply hypocrisy? I don't think I've ever been stupid nor evil enough to relate...

Taxes pay for the building, the heating, the electricity, the teacher salaries, the lunch tables, the trays, the cafeteria staff salaries...but also paying for the food so that all that other expense isn't wasted because the kids aren't paying attention is apparently too far

Conservatives are under the influence of demons. If you are religious, then this statement is what it is. 1 Timothy 4:1, which states, "Now the Spirit clearly tells us that in the last times, some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons." If you are not religious, then take this as a statement of them having "personal demons" or mentally illnesses that make them greedy and make them worship those that are greedy with cult-like devotion.
Most modern conservatives are incurably insane. The purest evil fools others into thinking it is a force of good, it fools others into thinking it is stupid when it is calculating and exact. Conservatives are pure evil, they give nothing but hatred and suffering to others and the world would be a much better place without them in it.
- If we're going to bring religion into this, then let's talk about how the people leading these brain-rotted christians are often accelerationists.
  "in the last times, some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons" isn't a warning for these fuck-nuggets, it's an instruction guide.
- It's just the End of Days... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RKRO_VssJQ

This makes me think of a few years ago when a majority of french MPs voted against a subsidized 1€ meal for university students. And we're talking a full three-course meal. The savings in healthcare would have outweighed the cost by so much though…

This is the problem with everything in the US. We don't settle on anything or finish the argument. We're just stuck in an endless cycle of debate and argument rather than using knowledge and understanding to just answer the fucking question. Like trans rights and abortion is simply about body autonomy, or health insurance and wages is about ensuring a better more stable economy and healthier population. Instead we endlessly argue culture, religion, and price rather than progress and dividends through our actions. It's infuriating but how do we change it?
- While I understand the sentiment, I think it’s a little over the top despairing. Kids DO get free lunch and breakfast where I live. The district and parents banded together to even make sure this continued all throughout COVID.
  “Where I live” is the best I can do. I can’t guarantee it gets done everywhere. But I also don’t want to act like nothing ever gets done anywhere. While you’re cursing the darkness, a lot of people are out there lighting candles.
- Eat the rich.
  Many of the cyclical culture war issues are largely manufactured by those in power to divide us.
  Remove those in power.
  Educate people away from hyper individualism.
  As for specifics, I'm not totally sure, but this seems a general good place to start.
  
  The mega rich "philanthropists" give a million dollars to some cause and they're hailed as generous. Like Bill Gates.
  If he alone paid his taxes, we'd have 100 billion and this wouldn't even be a question: should we feed hungry school kids?
  Fuck off with your philanthropy. Pay your fair share for benefitting from the system you helped make, you fucks.
  
  Indeed. Culture, Politics, Religion, law and justice, end up becoming bad seeds in society because they get twisted to their extremes by the rich and powerful. Especially if you are religious. That bowing to authority in God makes it easier to just trust leadership without questioning that leaderships authority. We've created entire societies willing to fight inwards with each other because it is easier to trust and scapegoat than to question and be free.

Feeding kids = socialism = communism = bad devil stuff
-pretty much every MAGAT
- Giving free stuff to the rich == good!
  
  That's just good Jesus stuff.

Yet they will defend a clump of cells that mean nothing till the day they die.
Once they exit the womb, they are not pro life
- They don't give a duck about the fetus, they just want to tell women what to do with their bodies.
- They are not pro-anything, they are not even "pro-birth" as people often say because they don't allow for live saving procedures that could allow a mother to abort a non viable pregnancy and try again.
  They are simply anti-abortion that's where their position starts and ends.
  
  they are not even "pro-birth" as people often say because they don't allow for live saving procedures that could allow a mother to abort a non viable pregnancy and try again.
  This is why I call them forced-birthers.
  You're gonna have that kid if it kills you.
  republicans
  
  Agree 100%

That's a bit missing the point of why kids are going hungry at all in the first place.

I agree with this, but also the "muh tax dollars" talking point is full of flaws. We haven't even balanced the budget in almost thirty years. The government is debt spending. It's not even "your money" (whatever that would mean because greenbacks are literally state property printed by the state) because "your money" doesn't cover diddly squat.
They're printing fresh currency, and handing out bank transfers to the people at the top of the economy everyday because "your money" was handed out twice already.
Let the kids eat for free on the fucking government tab, just like you let Israel genocide for free on the government tab.
- No large economy has a balanced budget.
  Except Germany for some years. Which led to us now having an infrastructure debt of 400 billion.
- Not exactly.
  The federal government has achieved fiscal balance (even surpluses) in just seven periods since 1776, bringing in enough revenue to cover all of its spending during 1817-21, 1823-36, 1852-57, 1867-73, 1880-93, 1920-30 and 1998-2001. We have also experienced six depressions. They began in 1819, 1837, 1857, 1873, 1893 and 1929.
  Kelton: Balanced budget? Huge mistake
  Finding The Money
  
  I'm not calling for a balanced budget. I'm saying "muh tax dollars" is a shit argument.

That is the most made-up exchange I've ever heard. Has this guy ever talked to a conservative about this stuff??
The person complaining wouldn't agree that kids shouldn't be hungry, they'd complain about the kid's parents not working hard enough.
- Yes, it is made up, he even said as much and that’s why it’s sad. It’s sad because it should be like that and that should be then end of it. You have identified the entire point of the post so rest assured that they know what conservatives have to say and they know that it’s bullshit.
  In the world where conservatives, well, don’t exist(the people do but the ideology is gone to the landfill where it belongs) all of the excuses and bungus follow-ups like stuff about the parents would just not be important or said.
- "The argument SHOULD just go like this"
  
  In the fictional world that this story takes place in, the conversation wouldn't happen at all
- Nah, I've pretty much had this exact conversation with people before. Depending on how you frame the question, you generally will get this exact response.
- You're okay with a child going hungry because their parents "didn't work hard enough"?