I could get that for you, but I won't.
I could get that for you, but I won't.
398 comments
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Lots of comments complaining about restaurants not being inclusive, but it's unrealistic to expect others to bend to your needs.
I can't go to a vegan joint and get upset when they don't want to serve me a steak.
Nor can I het upset when a restaurant isn't Halal.
If you want vegan, go to a place that sells vegan food.
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Offering at least one option that don't include factory farmed food, that caused a lot of animal suffering in it's production, should be the bare minimum.
"When I specifically go to a restaurant run by animal lovers and I can't even get any dead animals from them, you shouldn't be able to get food that didn't harm animals in any restaurant!"
Wow. I guess there really are people who want to make it even harder to avoid causing cruelty, for no reason... Just why?
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Reactionnary are just evil
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Well it depends. When it's a decent restaurant, some vegetarian and vegan options would be nice.
But the big issue is the terror vegans demanding on the spot a vegan option when going to a grill room or steak house. Like, wtf did you expect.
My take usually, as a vegan, is call the restaurant a few days in advance (if it is planned like a family dinner or work thing) and ask if they can make me something vegan. If not, no problem, I will deal with it. They are always happy to make me something and are happy with me asking in advance so the chef has time to prepare. But I won't even bother asking when it's a business completely based on meat. Like you said, don't ask for meat at a vegan venue. Goes both ways.
But when I go somewhere for dinner with friends who are vegan or have no issues with vegan food, we usually go to a vegan place or somewhere with a partial vegan menu.
But in the case of the original post, if you don't like coffee, just order something else in France. They don't mind if you order water or anything. Just don't order coffee and ruin it with milk, real or fake. A latte is just making fun of French culture. Or added water, 'Americano' is a term invented during the second world war to make fun of Americans who are too pussy to drink coffee like you should.
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i sometimes work with data from foodchains and it turns out they sell more if they have a vegan and vegetarian option. yet hardly anyone buys any of those products - customers just want to feel inclusive.
if vegan food would be good the vegans should easily be able to run restaurants. but it is just in some hip spots where ppl actually consune the vegan food.
so we asked a few hundred in a webform i had to make and 99.9% said they like that vegan is an option but ordered meat. i think the question was something like why vegan food was part of their reasoning to come here in the first place and most wrote to not exclude workbuddies.
as long as foods just immitate other food to be able to sell it (e.g. vegan doner or burgers) I wont eat it. if it is a good vegan dish...go.
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But the big issue is the terror vegans demanding on the spot a vegan option when going to a grill room or steak house.
This has ≈never happened.
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Even with meat-based venues it depends. I went to a 1-star steak restaurant and we asked what they would do if someone asked for a vegan menu. They absolutely do accommodate it as long as they know in advance.
Though to be fair it's a bit different than your average steakhouse
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Latte is an Italian drink. In France it's café au lait (or café crème in the south), which is generally a breakfast drink, served in a bowl-like cup.
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Or go to Starbucks or McDonald's, plenty of those in France too0
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I'll go ahead and recommend HappyCow for anyone looking for plant-based options outside of their home community.
They have a map where people can suggest places that have vegetarian or vegan options but are mostly omnivorous, or full on vegetarian or vegan restaurants, cafes, grocery stores, food trucks, you name it. I think HappyCow the company also verifies the places people upload so it's somewhat vetted.
I find that starting with HappyCow and then cross-referencing with Google Maps or OSM gives me the best results.
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In Italy, at “L'Isola della Pizza” in Rome, I asked the guy if I could get a pizza with salami, pepperoni, and sausage, and the guy was like “ah, American style!”
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Salami, pepperoni and sausage? What makes the first 2 not sausage and what is in your definition pure sausage?
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The honest answer is this: Salami (sliced salami), pepperoni (sliced spicy salami), and sausage (pre-cooked fennel-flavored uncased/crumbled pork sausage).
In the US, “sausage” tends to generically refer to uncured, fresh, or raw sausages, often really meaning “ground meat mixed with herbs and spices sometimes in a tube or casing (but not always).”
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Is it like the Italian American "shrimp scampi" where it's just the words for shrimp in two different languages? My understanding is that "salami" is just the Italian word for cured sausage.
Also, "pepperoni" is an Italian American word for a spicy salami that contains peppers, so it's just a type.
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In Italy, pepperoni would be peppers then wouldn’t it?
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Literally going to be flying to Paris today.
Good to know I guess lol.
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Just in case it's your first time in France : say "bonjour" when entering a store/ restaurant or when passing someone in an elevator or a staircase. Say "s'il vous plaît" and "merci" every time you ask for or get something respectively. This will save you a lot of nasty stares and displeased reactions. Actually that's one of the reasons French people have a mean / rude reputation...we are VERY keen on politeness and when someone fails to respect these basic rules, we consider them rude and act rude in return (this analysis is not mine, it's from a foreigner who lived in France for several years but, as a native french, I think it makes a lot of sense to explain the french mindset)
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This never happened. They would have given him a cup of black coffee and said " bro you're in France now"
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I'm a french vegetarian living in France after living 6 years in Scotland, France is years behind on the diet inclusion issue, I was shocked how difficult it was to find a place to eat out in Paris, way too many cafe/restaurant/etc.. gets defensive and refuse to serve you if you don't have the "historical diet" (whatever that means) of france, and a lot of them don't offer any "common alternative diet" options on the menu. And it's not better outside of Paris.
Then of course there are some great places that try to include everyone regardless of their diet, and they are increasing in numbers, but they are still the exception rather than the norm which is a shame.
If you ever goes in Paris and looking for a fully vegetarian classy restaurant, I recommand "Polichinelle", it's a bit on the expensive side (~50 euro/person), but it's high level cuisine, and for a special occasion it's really worth it.
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Italy is just as bad with this kind of stuff, at least in my experience. I'm not even vegan or vegetarian, but I saw it happen a lot when I was there. They had the same kind of "historical diet" excuse, and I'm sitting here thinking "you fuckers didn't even get tomatoes until the 16th century and now you're acting like you invented them."
I hate food purists so much.
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Not many vegan options around, but one place in Sorrento made me the best vegan pizza I ever had when I asked (there was nothing vegan on the menu). No vegan cheese necessary, I think it was the crust and oil that made it. Got bored of the same tomato pasta item every night at the hotel though.
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Never been to Italy, but I expected it would be even worse over there, Italians are often very invested in their opinion about food😄 some of my Italian friends can spend the whole meal debating about what they are eating
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Pasta too lol Cut it with the knife and you get to eat for free.... until they kick you out
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All of Europe is highly anti veg. As it should be.
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A French person decrying the lack of quality food in Paris in comparison to Scotland. British cuisine is truly amazing.
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Haha, Indeed the irony is at its maximum. Although, I think haggis was pretty good (even the vegetarian version)
While I'm talking about it, have you guys seen the documentaries about wild haggis ? https://youtu.be/tvLXG4_SoO4
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The French are actually quite conservative in many ways.
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If they don't have oat milk, what should've they said?
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No way this is real.
The waiter would have said "Non."
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No she was in a deep shock that she forgot her mother tongue and the brain switched to the next available language.
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and the brain switched to the
next availablefactory default language, English.
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I am not a vegan but oat milk lattes are the best lattes. They are creamy, rich with flavor that's perfectly aligned w the coffee, lower in calories & more sustainable than classic dairy.
Everyone should try them once at least.
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I just made a smoothie with a frozen berry blend I got from Costco. Yep, I used oatmilk
I don't think this story/tweet is real. Or maybe just the misunderstanding that the restaurant didn't have oat milk on hand.
Totally agreed that oat milk superior flavor for many different applications. Milk from a tiyty just ain't it for smoothies and stuff. I don't make any smoothies with animal milk.
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I like oatmilk in general. Oatmilkshakes are also awesome and oatmilk is way better in cereal
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I must keeping getting crap oatmilk. I always feel like it's watery, and I shake it before pouring.
I also drink whole milk, and think anything under 2% might as well be water. Unless it's a chocolate milk full of thickeners instead of just milk and chocolate.
I also get plain, because I don't want added sugar.
Suggestions?
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Oaty brand oat milk.
They have some kind of special ingredient that keeps everything properly emulsified.
Warning it's not cheap. I maybe buy a carton a week.
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Forager Project has a nice oatmilk. I like it better than Oatly.
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Oatly barista in the grey cartons is hands down the best IMO after trying loads of other brands. I get it at publix in the US or Tesco in the UK
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You have to go for the stuff with added fat - barista style - to get anything approaching decent.
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A lot of brands make extra creamy versions that work better in coffee imo. Some sell a barista version which is also extra creamy and designed to steam well for lattes. Theyre more calorie dense though, so you kinda lose one of the main benefits. My favorite milk for lattes is ultra-filtered whole milk.
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Mighty is the best brand I've tried by a margin, they do a barista one but for an all round milk replacement the whole m.lk is great. They use a blend of oat and pea though I think
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Starbucks gets watery oat milk I dunno
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Just use whole milk.
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Yes! The moment I tried oatmilk I realized the nuttiness of the oat compliments the coffee bean aromas making it the superior milk for espresso drinks
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This is the real answer. The french aren't the pretentious ones in this story, they're the plebs who don't know any better haha
(All in good fun)
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No, they just have way better milk than us
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I agree. My preference goes oat then whole. I like the nuttiness that the oat milk adds. Local café was doing a monthly special, and they're the best in the county so I tried it. It became my regular order.
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Have you looked at the ingredients of oat milk?
It's water with vegetable oil and just enough oats for the taste.
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"I am not a vegan but"
HAHAAH, INSERT FUNNY THEY TELL YOU JOKE!!1!
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For extremely busy restaurants / cafe's where people are already waiting long periods, they probably don't want to overcomplicate things too, and increase the risk . They'd have to keep 2 different milk frothing machines, and every time a customer got sick, risk getting sued, whilst slowing down the efficiency of orders.
Whilst it might increase the number of potential customers, in practice, it might only have negatives
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The French are right. When you have fabled cuisine, lauded all over the world as the gold standard… you get resistant to change. And rightfully so.
Putain, non, is indeed the proper response to said question.
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So France is intolerant towards lactose intolerant people and towards those with specific ethical dietary preferences. And that rightfully so! Be an asshole towards others! It's "in" these days and Paris has been known for being trendy. /s
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French supermarkets all have very large and wide selection of "free from" style products for allergies and intolerances - gluten free, milk free. Plus vegan and vegetarian. In fact it would put most supermarkets in the US to shame. I also expect that many cafes in Paris cater for people with allergies.
So it's not that. More likely it's a surly waiter, or a tourist asking for something which is not on the menu and being upset by the answer.
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Lactose intolerant people can drink black coffee, non?
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Tabernac!!!!
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France is intolerant towards people who, instead of having something brilliant that they can have, would rather have a bad imitation of something that they can't have. You're not getting judged or discriminated against for being lactose intolerant, you're getting judged for being béotien and not discriminated against, but educated. By being served better food than what you ordered.
That or they just plainly don't have it on the menu.
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It's a French thing, you wouldn't understand it
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Don't be weak.
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We wanted to order pizza and I told my girlfriend (who is Italian) that I might order Pizza Hawaii. Her reflexes kicked in and she bit me.
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So tasty that she had to get at the residuals
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This does qualify as blasphemy.
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Now show her this (hint: top-left corner).
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Shes a keeper.
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Once in Italy my wife tried ordering a pizza with chicken and they just straight up laughed at her and said 'Not in Italy!', but like.. not in a mean way.
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Food snobs might be one of my least favorite types of humans there are. The minute I hear/see someone start talking about how they would never eat that or whatever other bullshit, is almost like I'm hearing them start talking about the good things Trump is doing for everyone. Let's never cross paths again, you're insufferable.
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In this thread, most of both the French and the vegans are insufferable. I like a nice strong black coffee and I don't eat a lot of meat, but there's a reason I don't really want to go back to Paris or to half of the vegan restaurants I try.
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I mean, it really depends on their delivery.
If they're acting like it somehow un-stinks their shit, ok fuck off.
However, there are certain foods that everyone loves that I simply cannot stand. Cake, is a big one. I will actively seek against eating cake. It frequently leaves me feeling gross, especially on an empty stomach. I do not see it as good. I can understand someone speaking about food like that.
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I was on vacation in Flavigny, an incredibly beautiful small village in Burgundy. I wanted my green beans straight from the garden behind the restaurant without butter and asked to use olive oil instead. The waiter was like "Why!?". It took me five minutes to convince him, he was absolutely unsympathetic and I think I had to pay extra. :)
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Honestly, there is a bit of a pride fight in France between the butter cuisines at the North of the Loire river and the olive cuisines at the South of the Loire. So it might not be that much against the idea of make the dish vegan.
Still that useless, stupid pride. I cook burgeondy dishes with olive oil whenever I feel like it and it is still very good. Not quite the same taste but delicious nevertheless.
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il veut qu'on fasse de l'agriculture, c'est ridicule
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Why would you eat beans without butter? Are you barbarian?
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i like plain unseasoned green beans, fight me
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I don't think in barbarian, no. But butter is scary!
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I love France they take food and tradition seriously while at the same time their own government is afraid off them.
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All governments should be afraid of their people. The French ae doing something right.
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If I were a government, I'd be afraid of French traditions, too.
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So I guess, fuck lactose intolerant, amiright?
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I'd imagine most French people who are lactose intolerant just take their coffee without any kind of milk.
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Paradox of tolerance: if we allow the lactose intolerant to exist amongst us, their intolerance will not tolerate our tolerationess. First they came for the milk, and I said nothing for I was not a cow...
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Then they came for the guns and I said nothing because I’m not a pig…
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Not sure if that's a thing in France, but alternatively to plant milk for lactose intolerant
- Lactose-free milk (there are versions with lactose removed instead of broken down, that aren't sweet and taste basically the same as normal milk)
- Lactase enzyme taken together with the coffee, to break lactose down
I don't really see plant milk as the lactose-intolerant variant, but a vegan option, but that might just be due to the fact Finland has lactose-free milk available as an option basically everywhere as milk is such an important part of the coffee culture.
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Yes.
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The waiter probably was conveying it's not on the menu or is out of stock. No big deal..
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Definitely not on the menu. Most people don't have milk in their coffee in France, and oat milk is even rarer. The default coffee experience, a small black coffee, is vegan on its own.
But I can appreciate the frustration. Oat milk is cheap and has low environmental impact, it would be good for it to be offered more widely, regardless of taste.
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But France have very good brands of plant based milk. Its not like they are against it.
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I was backpacking Europe. I had just left Amsterdam and gotten to Berlin. I ordered a Heineken on impulse and the bartender looked appalled and said no.
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That is patently untrue. People drink piss in Berlin too, in fact, Berlin is a major tourist destination. Heineken is produced in The Netherlands and widely available and consumed throughout continental Europe. This idea that Europeans won't serve you something they themselves wouldn't consume, or find repugnant is also not true. But it sounds like a cool anecdote to someone who's never been there and knows absolutely nothing about it. If you're gonna tell that lie again, at least use Budweiser, or Coors light. At least that sticks with the theme of uncultured American faux pas, which is what your story was trying to emulate.
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It is absolutely true that people drink piss in Berlin, it's not called Heineken but Berliner Kindl though.
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I'm pretty sure that a bartender that doesn't stock a specific brand of beer out of disgust for it won't sell it to you. You're way overreaching with your criticism of reasonably viable story.
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I love France and all, but let's not pretend they have good coffee culture. What passes for cappuccino there... The horrors I've seen.
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There is plenty of good coffee in Paris, but you need to go to typically smaller places where they only make that.
Although I don't drink milk much anymore I wouldn't know if the cappuccino they make is good.
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That's probably the most polite barista in Paris. I'd have expected a tirade, complete with arm waving and rude gestures.
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They also seem to operate under the misunderstanding that the French can make coffee. Here in Italy we know that to be false.
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Half the French I know have a Bialetti stove top coffee machine. Sure, the french typically buy ground beans and they tend to prefer a dark roast. But they still use Italian technology.
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Pwffft Italy know about coffee?
Signed, A Brazilian
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To be fair, most of the dishes people like from France are imported by some king or another. Traditional French food kinda sucks, unless you really like stew.
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Guillotine!
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Right? This could have been an open declaration of war. Dude should have known better.
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That is the standard response in France, I'm surprise that waiter was so polite about it.
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Ah, the french.
Don't know where europe would be without them.
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More nobles and fewer Haussman style buildings, for a start.
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Run by lords
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nothing worse than a stranger enjoying food you hate, like... cuisine bigotry
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I love the french, I really do.
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Just back from pints with a French lad. Just the two of us. Fucking love the French. Absolutely superb folks.
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Every morning: A double-shot espresso with a small’ish blob of sweetened condensed milk, a few drops of vanilla extract and a teaspoon of brown sugar.
Heaven.
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I'm not going to shame anyones coffee choices but hard no from me.
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Fair. But it’s what I like!
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How do you keep your condensed milk from hardening between servings?
In my area they come in tin cans, so there's too much to use it all up before it starts to thicken
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I refrigerate it. I use so little that it barely cools the coffee when I put it in. It’s really no different than creamer. It’s just thicker. So it makes the brew creamier.
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I'd try cellophane with a rubber band on top of the can, stored in the fridge, take it out an hour before you want to use it, but that's need some refinement
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Can you get it in the metal toothpaste tubes?
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Based
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Did they mention that milk comes from cows and not oats?
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oats aren't mamals, can't see how he could possibly get milk from it.
Same for almonds and everything else.
I also don't order cow juice.-
The word 'milk' in the English language has been used to describe plant-based milks for at least 800 years. Soy milk and Almond milk as beverages have been around for at least 1000 years.
You're ahistorical proscriptive definition is just bullshit gatekeeping. You are wrong and should feel bad about yourself over it.
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"almond juice" has been called "almond milk" in the french language since middle age. That's not the issue here. The guy probably order something that was not on the carte. That's it. There is coffee shop than specialise in fancy and complicated coffee based beuvrage. In a regular café, you should check the menu before asking for your favorite drink for a shop at home.
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Lol what an original joke.
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that is a surprisingly normal reaction, unlike the unhinged extravagantly vileresponses I got from daring to make a joke about their precious oats.
Man people get triggered fast.
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as they should. i dont like american culture, where some people seem to think it is ok to take an item of the menu and alter pretty much everything about it.
btw: if you want to be treated like a king in france... look up history
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I mean if it's for a meal I get you but being mad about different type of milk for coffee is crazy
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Making adjustments to dishes for the customers the restaurant serves is not unique to american culture.
Furthermore I find it important to enable this. For example due to health reasons as in lactose intolerance, which is common in humans as about two thirds of humanity is lactose intolerant.
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exactly because of allergies it is important to stick to the menu. if someone has a real allergy, not 'i fart a little more', they know exactly what they can and cannot eat. so they will order what they know is safe and the restaurant knows how to prepare the stuff on the menu.
i dont know how bad you can mess someone up with lactose, but milk has a large possibility of cross contamination. i know you can kill someone with celiac disease from just a little cross contamination. so lets just not risk it.
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I think this is why I’m hesitant to travel there, i can’t handle snobs.
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It's hard to describe but it's not snobbery. The French are just themselves and I honestly love them for it. I'd heartily recommend a visit.
I was there one time for work and decided I'd have a steak. Well I know they cook steak rarer than elsewhere so hoping for medium I ordered well done.
Terrible mistake. I got what was basically a lump of raw meat that should have had "get fucked" stamped on it and I felt like I brought it on myself.
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They aren't real snobs because they don't look down on you, it is in most cases not about you personally. They just think their culture is superior which sounds very arrogant but below that is just plain old narcasism. Also historically they're are from 'the cultured part of europe' and had to deal with the basic lowlife from England (have you eaten their food?), the Dutch (have you seen their clothes?) and the Germans (have you seen what their homes). It's like how the Romans looked at the Germanic tribes they just like superficial stuff like pretty food on pretty tables wearing pretty dresses. There are plenty of places people will treat you much worse and above all this is just a stereotype which is true on the one hand but there are a lot of different people living in France just like in any other country. Also they have crêpes.
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The Fr*nch hate Parisians too.
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Who tf drinks that? I'd rather have a Hawaii pizza. Totally acceptable answer
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My guess would be someone who is lactose intolerant
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Or someone who is vegan.
Or someone who just likes the taste of oat milk.
Personally I'm not vegan and I do drink dairy milk, but I also love oat milk and often order my coffee that way. It adds a kind of nutty taste which I really like. Would recommend trying it sometime.
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^ I am rather fond of not risking shitting myself.
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Oat milk is superior to any other milk (including dairy) for coffee and I will fight anyone who disagrees
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So not a 34% heavy cream person eh?
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I like soy milk in my coffee :)
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Woah! Calm down! I don't wanna fight. Plus my tummy is not into dairy products that much. It was just the all: "I ordered a latte with oat milk in Paris" thing that sounded more of a San Francisco stuff to me. My favourite barman in my favourite bar told me last week: "I don't do cocktails" when I ordered a gin and tonic. Everything more complicated than a beer or a coffee is a cocktail.
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Hawaiian Pizza is the best pizza, Nickelback is the greatest band, and Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback. Have at it.
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The Zune was the superior mp3 player.
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The Duke was the best controller ever made.
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Windows is the best operating system.
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To be fair, the problem with Hawaiian Pizza isn't the pineapple, it's that pineapple + canadian bacon just doesn't have enough flavor. If you're going to go full American-style pizza, you gotta overload those taste buds.
For example, I love pineapple with jalapeno and some kind of flavorful meat (philly steak, salami, etc).
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anyone who would rather not add cow blood and pus to their order?
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You know the answer to that.
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398 comments