'We've lost a partner and a friend': Ukrainians somber as U.S. partnership disintegrates
Ukrainians “couldn’t cope without American weapons and support,” Yuliya Antonyuk, a 42-year-old real estate agent, told NBC News.
您正在查看单个对话串。
Donald Trump was never Ukraine's friend
The rest of us here still are
Hear here.
Anyone who supports the orange douche is no friend of mine
LOL, I'm not Ukraine's friend. Why would I be? I see no reason to care much about this war other than having the opinion that Russia shouldn't have attacked them.
There is an old adage or saying about if you don't care about something happening to your neighbors long enough that thing you didn't care about will eventually happen to you.
Neighbors?
But in all seriousness, the alternatives are pretty unpalitable:
a) Fund Ukraines war (which they will never win) until all the Ukranians die, just to put a dent into the military infrastructure of Russia
b) Start a war with Russia to force them to lose the war with Ukraine
And I am not all to concerned about how Zelensky feels about whatever happens to us.
The war is very winnable. The idea that Russia is invincible or too big to fail is a fallacy.
Russia's economy is collapsing under the weight of sanctions and will not be able to sustain its ability to wage war.
When Russia is on its knees after its complete economic collapse and is unable to sustain the war, that is when peacekeeping troops will be sent.
Europe is preparing to send an absolutely enormous amount of aid to Ukraine that will be able to sustain Ukraine through the entirety of Trump's term.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy knows that if Ukraine falls then Europe is next on Putin's chopping block
You should show a modicum of respect to the people of Ukraine and Volodymyr Zelenskyy
They have earned it
IDK, the argument that "believe me dude, Russia's about to lose to Ukraine" doesn't sound believable to me after the years and years I've heard it.
You should show a modicum of respect to the people of Ukraine and Volodymyr Zelenskyy
I show them several modicums a year. That doesn't mean I have to want to fund their war or prolong it though.
Are you American?
You don't have to believe me, there are any number of reliable objective sources available that will confirm it.
Russia had an enormous stockpile leftover from the Soviet Union and has nearly burned through all of it. Yes, it's taken a few years.
How do you want this to go?
Usually I provide bad faith arguers such as yourself with the links to those credible objective sources and they refuse for some whatever made up reason
Because of course they do
I mean, we're 3 years into the full scale invasion of Ukraine and you seem to be ignorant of a major conflict and genocide on a basic level
Why should that change now?
What I am saying is correct whether you believe me or not, you can FO and stay ignorant for all I care. I am just providing the opportunity not to be
How do you want this to go?
In my dream world I'd like to see Ukraine absolutely destroy Russia and take it over. I don't think that's gonna happen though.
I mean, we’re 3 years into the full scale invasion of Ukraine and you seem to be ignorant of a major conflict and genocide on a basic level
I tried following it at first but I kept seeing tons of conflicting information and it ended up being too much. One day Ukraine has almost won the war, the next day Russia. At the end I was like "why am I even following this war halfway across the world that's only marginally related to America" lol
That is a common misconception. The war in Ukraine is not only marginally related to America.
The outcome of the war in Ukraine will determine the fate of Europe
As I recall the last time that happened, it wasn't marginally related to America.
I suppose being overwhelmed with conflicting information is a common experience for just about everyone. I feel fortunate to have the education and training to be able to make sense of it.
I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate Ukraine's chances, it seems like every time Russia has done that Russia loses another 25,000 soldiers and their accompanying equipment
Fair enough
I mean yeah, but if Russia is able to start invading neighbors because they want to, the eastern tip of Russia is a lot closer to the western tip of Alaska that would make a great staging point into north America. At least according to my 14 year old risk strategy anyway. (I got news for Australia though)
All joking aside you have put forth 3 options
To me it sounds like your taking option 1. Which you have the right to vote/ think is the best way. To me I'm going with option 2 until option 3 is needed. Because if you let a bully get their way they are just going to keep doing it until someone stops them. And I have the right to think that as well.
In this day in age everything is a lot closer than it appears on a map. Cyber incidents are happening all over the world. Russia doesn't need to put troops on the ground in America to attack us, it just needs to meddle in our elections, hack our infrastructure or do any other cyber activities to harm us.
You make good points here. Is there any particular reason you think option 2 is better than option 3? The way I see it, with option 3 the war is over more quickly, Russia is (most likely) defeated and we can finally move on to other orders of business.
I like option 2 better than option 3 because I don't think America should go back to "their is an international issue send troops" mentality. We are known for being to trigger happy with that. While I love the idea of sending troops and putting putin in his place where does that end? Where do we draw the line on when sending troops is acceptable or not? I couldn't say what is right or wrong for sure or if my thoughts are even the right ones to have.
I do know their is a time and a place to send troops I just don't know when that may be in this instance. They are not an "ally" but someone is doing something bad to them. So send equipment/funds is my middle ground.
Very fair take! Respect.
Yeah, and that's too bad. We need to stop funding all these wars.
The reason US became so strong and rich was because of developing trade and for trade it needs peace.
Without it the US will become irrelevant and eventually weak enough that other super powers that develop because of this move will take over.
The war was winnable and Ukraine had upper had until this change, it was projected that Russia would run off resources this year. You can't keep country in war economy forever. It drains a lot of resources.
In fact of we didn't restrict Ukraine in 2022 and give them full help out could end that year, as Russia was acting very incompetent initially and didn't have time to set up their defenses.
The war was winnable and Ukraine had upper had until this change, it was projected that Russia would run off resources this year.
What projection is this? I hear from both sides that the other side is on the verge of losing for years now.
I am not talking about some random comments here. It was well known that 2024 was the peak of what Russia could get with their war economy and it is showing that it indeed was true, they significantly slowed down and just now trump gave them a help line.
What kind of absolute psychopath posts a news article only to come down in the comments and specifically say they disagree with everyone on the topic and simultaneously they don't care about what the article is even about? That's next level unhinged shit.
I'm not obligated to agree with any echo chamber. I share things I think are noteworthy, and sometimes will engage in conversations with people about them.
But freakouts like yours and the others here are why I typically don't engage politically with lemmitors anymore.
Lemmitors? Do you just try to find the way to be a contrarian to everything normalized?
No.
Anyhow, we're Lemmings, and lemmitors is one of the dumbest things I've seen someone trying to force into a lexicon.
Noted. I honestly didn't know y'all call yourselves Lemmings, I'll use that moving forward.
Having the opinion that Russia shouldn't have attacked Ukraine is already lightyears ahead of Trump's opinion of "Ukraine never should have started this war"
In each and every instance I have had getting to know the people of Ukraine over the last several years, every time I walk away with greater admiration and respect for them and the feeling that they have made me a better person in the process.
The strength, resilience, ingenuity, and unity the Ukrainian people collectively share is truly something special to behold
I have never met a Ukranian but I had the same feeling after spending a weekend with a Crimean girl as a teen. Her account of Russia's invasion of Crimea has forever poisoned my mind against Russia lol
And yeah Trump siding so heavily with Russia is probably one of the most insane positions Trump has taken in this second term, and I say this as someone who voted for him.
It is insane, because he is in position where putin is scared of him yet he still is helping him even though to Russia US is a sworn enemy.
This is essentially selling all of the country for some personal deal.
I think it's more insane because as a president with access to literal military personnel, he probably has the most access to the most information about the war, and I feel like there's no way you can reasonably spin what's transpired into being Ukraine's fault.
I say this as someone who voted for him
Yikes.
You're in the minority. Even if you don't support Ukraine, they are resisting Russia, our literal enemy. Putin and his administration interferes in elections around the world and is hostile to democracies.
You’re in the minority.
On this teeny tiny corner of the internet, sure. I don't care.
IDK, my principle on war is that it is bad and should be mostly avoided. Wars that could be ended more quickly should not be continuously funded, and wars should conclude as quickly as possible, even if that means there will be greater short-term casualties. Over the long term, I think more people die when wars drag on in a trickle of death, and it prevents the inevitable losers from rebuilding as quickly as they should and their citizens deserve.
If you say that because Russia is bad we should go to war with them directly and destroy them, I'm not a fan, but I think it'd be better than stretching out this war for all of eternity. In general though, I think just letting Ukraine lose is the best option, since it likely leads to the least amount of casualties, and doesn't give Russia a particularly greater strategic advantage over us.
Go tell the grieving relatives of killed Ukraine soldiers that you wanted them to die because you're their friend.
Go tell the grieving relatives of killed Ukraine soldiers that you wanted them to die because you're their friend.
What a weird thing to say
What can I say, it's a weird position to have. "I care about your people so much I want them to die in war", what kind of logic is that?
Again absolutely stupid position to think.
You're just dumb bro nobody thinks like this lmfao. Literally stupidest thing I've ever heard someone say
You're so inconsistent. You pretend to care about Ukrainian soldiers while saying we should give their aggressors everything they want. Thousands of Ukrainian men, women, and children killed, raped, tortured, and stolen, to say nothing of the destruction in their homeland.
war is bad and should be mostly avoided.
Yep, I think most agree with this. But just giving the invaders all the territory they stole is literally guaranteeing more war and aggression in the future! If Russia knows they can just invade another sovereign nation and wait it out to be rewarded, why the fuck wouldn't they? They 100% will do this again to other countries and the horror will continue. Defending yourself is just and fair.
Lastly, who are you to say Ukraine should just throw up the white flag and lose? That's for them to decide. And what you, me, Trump, or Putin think they should do is irrelevant. They want to defend their country, and are just asking for our support to do it. And we should give it to them...
Yep, I think most agree with this. But just giving the invaders all the territory they stole is literally guaranteeing more war and aggression in the future! If Russia knows they can just invade another sovereign nation and wait it out to be rewarded, why the fuck wouldn’t they? They 100% will do this again to other countries and the horror will continue.
This is the best argument in favor of the war, and the one that was sold to me at first. But after how long the war has gone on, it doesn't seem to me like Putin would even live long enough to capture all the land he allegedly wants to, and even if he did, that he would use that land to attack larger nations or the US.
Defending yourself is just and fair.
But we are not Ukraine. Ukraine should keep fighting if they want to, but it's not our war. We only benefit marginally from the war's existence, it is not particularly in America's best interest to participate in it.
I knew you didn't care about those "grieving relatives of killed Ukraine soldiers". A war should "benefit" us?? Psychotic mentality. Some people help others and defend against bullies simply because it's the right thing to do...
"If you REALLY cared about us, you'd make sure this war lasts forever!"
Nah homie. I care about Ukrainians soldiers like I care about civilians in the Congo. I feel bad for what they're going for and want it to end but I don't want my money going towards them.
The fact that you think that I can only care about Ukranians if I give them my tax money is...interesting...
You actively use alts enough to comment in the same thread with different ones about how unpopular you are on a regular basis? Bro, what's the link to your YouTube/TikTok/video account where you upload your crazy ramblings? I want to watch the degradation live before it's in a complication video of insane people on the Internet.
