2d ago

US should not have made concessions to Russia over Ukraine, says German minister

www.theguardian.com US should not have made concessions to Russia over Ukraine, says German minister

France also criticises Trump’s approach to ending war, resting on Kyiv forfeiting territory and Nato membership

Summary

Germany’s defense minister, Boris Pistorius, criticized the U.S. for making concessions to Russia before peace talks, particularly ruling out NATO membership for Ukraine and accepting territorial losses.

His concerns were echoed by France’s defense minister, Sébastien Lecornu.

Trump’s recent call with Putin sparked European opposition, with key nations reaffirming their support for Ukraine’s sovereignty.

The Kremlin welcomed Trump’s stance, while Ukraine maintained its NATO aspirations.

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2d ago

US should not have made concessions to Russia over Ukraine, German minister says

www.theguardian.com /world/2025/feb/13/us-should-not-have-made-concessions-to-russia-over-ukraine-german-minister-says

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39 comments

I am personally surprised that the US did that without even consulting Ukraine. That's fucking sick.
The next four years would be difficult. I am so sick of people behaving like bullies.

There is no benefit to Ukraine to agree to this. Any treaty signed in which Ukraine gives up territory and is prevented from seeking out defensive treaties will result in Russia rearming and attacking again.
This happened in 2014 with Crimea. Everyone said to let Russia have it and they'll be happy. They weren't. They attacked again. Now people are saying to let Russia have it and they'll be happy. They won't be.
- We also tried appeasement with Hitler and it didn’t work. Do people just not read history books anymore? It’s wild how ignorant these fools are
  
  Is that Hitler guy on Tiktok or YouTube?

Well both Russia and the United States have shown that treaties and other agreements with them are only worth anything until they unilaterally change their mind, so something like blocking Ukraine from NATO could easily be ignored if the United States (or Russia) ever sees an election again.
- US and Russia duopoly again: it's like going backwards to end of WW2 era, soon ready for "cold war part 2"
  
  As an American, I want nothing more at this point than for the world to rise up and gain power. We are broken. We are failing. We need democracy on the world stage.
  Pro global democracy means empowerment of our allies.
  
  But how will we have a Cold War when our president has his tongue up Putin’s ass?

Hegseth said Trump was “the best negotiator on the planet”.
If that's the case, why are they starting from the position that they'll yield Ukraine's territory and will not allow them in NATO? That's kindergarten levels of negotiating here.
- It makes more sense when you realize he's negotiating not on behalf of the best interests of Ukraine or the USA but on behalf of Putin.

Character speculation:
Trump - doesn't properly understand, has praised Putin multiple times, carries a grudge against Ukraine due to Zelensky not yielding to blackmail to investigate Biden's son
Hegseth - understands decently, but puts his career first (you dont' argue with the god-emperor)
Possible outcomes:
Ukraine will not agree
European countries will guarantee to Ukraine that they will step up support (since they'd be next, and they're already providing the bigger part of support)
having measured the level of US principle and commitment, China will try to seize Taiwan
European countries will be unable / unwilling to back the US in a confrontation with China, since they are busy and the US let them down
risk of a great war in the Pacific
global economic crisis (we'll learn to live without microelectronics for a while)

While the US could easily veto them joining NATO, there's nothing making Ukraine accept any deal struck between Russia and the US, who, last I checked, was not an active participant in this war. I don't know why Ukrainians would just throw in the towel after losing so much. I don't know if Europe can sustain things at the level of support Ukraine has been getting with US aid, but all the talk I hear makes it sound like the EU will do what it can.
Especially if Trump expects mineral rights or whatever he is going on about. I don't know why Ukraine would give up such tremendous value to a party that just volunteers them to surrender. Losing more territory to Russia is a possibility if they can't maintain troop/supply levels, but it hardly seems worth it for them to give up at this moment. It's been my understanding keeping the pressure on Russia constantly and not letting them recover has been crucial to Ukraine's success.
It just feels like Trump trying to put himself at the center of attention when he really has nothing to do with this anymore if he's choosing to stop US aid to Ukraine.
- It's not just about aid from the US, but also maintaining sanctions (and expanding compliance checks) w.r.t. russia.
  
  Good point. I tend to forget about sanctions because they're not something really visible. I'd say dropping those would be very bad optics for both the government and whichever businesses start selling to Russia again, but that seems to be a very low concern given what we're doing to our own country at the moment. It just would look like blatantly stabbing Ukraine in the back though. The US seems to be hell bent on making enemies out of everyone and I hate it so much.
- If the US really pull out then Poland is going to say "fuck it" and deliver materiel and ordnance using their own personnel. The latter directly to Russia. And there's nothing that would be able to stop them, so the rest of Europe will take part, in more active or passive roles.
  Much of Europe's positioning around the issue right now hinges on not wanting to stoke the Russia/US rivalry bee's nest, with that ceasing to be a concern the Russians are going to get bitch-slapped. And Putin is going to claim victory, having successfully "driven a wedge into the west, broken it apart, having created a multipolar world order". And then Russian history books will say "and then butter became even more expensive, among other things which got worse".
  
  not wanting to stoke the Russia/US rivalry bee’s nest
  This has been one of the strangest things to me as an American looking at this conflict. I'm not particularly anti-American, but I don't look at us as anything special either. I attribute much of our success as a nation to being industrially ready for WW2 while not really taking any direct attacks from the war. We profited and were able to pocket all that money while almost everyone else had to spend money rebuilding is my simplified understanding.
  We seem to have no real skin in the game other than this was a chance to help someone else beat up a rival for us while keeping our hands clean. Why the US seemed to be calling so many of the shots seemed absolutely ridiculous other than we like throwing weaponry wherever we can get away with it. I can understand us not putting troops in Ukraine, but why it felt we limited what anyone else could do when we would be the least directly affected by the outcome was very confusing.
  It seems impossible other European countries would not get involved if we walked away, but it did seem like the option that would limit the overall violence the most with us just helping Ukraine. I don't want to see more countries get pulled in, especially since America is usually all about inserting our military in places. Trump bumping off Putin seems more on brand for what his fans usually go for anyway. They already sound in a bad position, and giving them the final nudge off the edge seems like an easy way to look like a real world hero. I dont't know what would come with the collapse of Putin's control, but at least initially I think most people would be in favor of that. Pulling out and leaving it to everyone else or doing things to help Russia now just seems a negative to us and most of you with no benefit to all but probably a single digit number of people.
  “and then butter became even more expensive, among other things which got worse”.
  This made me laugh. I love how some people cope with things.

How them Taurus missiles doing?
- That’s what I’m saying man. I’m sick of Russia and their interference. I hope someone fights back against Russia/Putin cause it’s clear that our President won’t.

You remember how many times President Carter had to look behind his back while nailing plywood on a construction site? 0
At least logically that's what I would assume. Now imagine if Carter had put himself in between a tyrant and an innocent nation full of war hardened heroes on the Ukrainian side and evil crazy war hardened criminals on the ruzzian side. 4 years of Bliss.

Unpopular opinion: any peace treaty with Russia is going to require Ukraine giving up land. Russia is already occupying it and the Ukraine can't retake it, especially if US aid goes away. There needs to be a material change in the war to get Russia to agree to fuck off, it's not going to be the US getting involved, and I doubt the EU is willing either.
- Remember the west giving hitler czechoslovakia before ww2? No? Then go fucking read about it.
  Allowing russia to win and then go back to their shithole to breed more cannon fodder is a recipe for another war in a couple of years.
  
  You don't need to go back that far. It literally happened when they let Russia take Crimea in 2014. You let them take Luhansk and Kherson now, and they'll be taking Odesa and Dnipro by 2034.
  
  It's going to take someone to stop them though, which there doesn't appear to be anyone willing at the moment.
- Yes, but talk to your allies first and don't make unnecessary concessions.
  
  How can trump take all the credit if he asks others first?
  
  Pretty sure Zelensky said he would never give up territory, so you sorta need to go around him at that point.
- the Ukraine

And what will they do? Nothing! The EU is spineless.
- The EU is currently watching a toddler rampage through the diplomatic globe with the grace of a untrained forklift operator. They're a little more concerned with protecting their own interests than helping America dig itself out of a hole that's 75+ years in the making.
  
  The topic is about helping Ukraine, not the US. Why in the world would you assume they were suggesting the latter?

39 comments