Why is it so lonely in the fediverse

The entire userbase of the Fediverse is a rounding error for Meta. We aren't significant.

True, I think Threads got 10 millions subscribers in 7 hours.
- i read earlier today that they're up to 30m

Letting Facebook have any sort of success in Lemmy is such a bad idea, they burn everything they touch.

As much as possible, corporate interest and action on social media needs to be exposed and dismantled. Capitalism is inherently antisocial and comes with a bunch of social hierarchies and unquestionable "accepted" inequalities embedded within. Plus I don't enjoy trawling through miles of boring carbon copy jokes and endless attempts at edgy right-wing tinged "humour". The cancerous spread of fascistic "freedom of speech" culture that defies the logic of the concept destroyed reddit.

trawling through miles of boring carbon copy jokes
That was the worst part of Reddit for me. Looking for answers and getting nothing but shit posts or people flaming

Yes please defederate this shit and leave us alone

Defederate from, and anybody who federates with Meta. Fuck Meta/Zuck, they are enshittification incarnate.
- Absolutely. Defederate and boycott instances that federate with meta

Threads does not really want or care about our tiny userbase. They want the normies and they want to OWN most of the marketshare of this protocol

So he actually made one?

Yeah Threds is supposed to have federation (activepub) support. Pretty clear EEE attempt to kill federated services by Meta.
- I’m new to federated services here and have a question. If say Threads federates with mastodon.social and I interact with threads content through mastodon.social does Meta get my information and data or do they only get a minimal set of info like username and the instance my interaction originated from?
jup, there is already a preview app, someone i follow on Microblogging-fedi has signed up and got automatically banned within seconds
but yes they're launching in America first (uh) and they will be federating someday maybe probably
- they’re launching in America first
  Because GDPR makes Threads to be illegal in Europe, thanks to Ireland and the European Union 😆

I think Zuck underestimates how disgusting his userbase behaves. I really don’t want to read the shit I had to flee from back in the day.

I think he knows, he just doesn't care, as he probably benefits from it. 🤷

yeah him and his 30 million users

*70 million as of this evening
Edit: providing source https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-07/meta-s-threads-has-70-million-signups-surprising-zuckerberg

Tbh I'm seeing a lot of Mastodon instances Admins saying they wont defederate Threads straight away; they want to see what Meta does/demands of all over instances first. The instance I'm part of (Fosstodon) is also doing the "wait and see" tactic.

BUT I strongly suspect most will end up defederating with Threads within a week due to Meta's shit moderation and attempts to bully other, larger instances into giving them privacy info.

Wtf. What possible good thing do they expect to see from meta?
- People. Most of the people using Threads are not garbage just because Meta is.
  I'll likely be personally blocking the entire instance the day they connect with ActivityPub.

I don’t think Threads need the fediverse to survive or thrive.

And correct me if I’m wrong but I think Mastodon’s biggest instances don’t mind federating with Threads.

Why on earth would they be interested in federating with meta??
- A lot of them are taking a "let's give them a chance" stance which is fucked because we have over a decade of social media history as to why they've already spent that chance and cannot be trusted. There's also the fact of Meta meeting with Mastodon instance admins and having them sign NDAs if they agree to talk.
  I won't be on an instance that federates with them, personally.

Honestly one needs to look at the economic ensentives in order to understand metas goals.

Meta does not make any money from content on the federverse. Therefore, they have no reason to support its growth or future. In fact I would go as far as to say that they actually are going to try and EEE.

They aren't going to try to EEE. ActivityPub was just an easy protocall to build off of quickly. They don't care about the fediverse. They have almost zero incentive to waste effort trying to destroy it, plus it's open source, so worst case we just fork it and move on.
- ActivityPub was just an easy protocall to build off of quickly
  If they didn't want to federate, they wouldnt have a need for ActivityPub or any kind of similar protocol.
What do you mean by EEE?
- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish

My mom has an account and I just... [sigh]

Wasn’t there just a post about how all instance admins can access user action logs from all instances?

Would this potentially allow meta to grab info on users based on their upvote/downvotes? I’m pretty sure my email is linked to my account here, and it’s not a far jump to link it to any other accounts I use it for to build a profile depending on the data available.

Meta might already be secretly running any number of existing instances. For that matter, someone else you don’t trust definitely already is.
- I guess that’s the ultimate trade off with social media. There is no expectation of privacy and no way to avoid the corporations looking to influence you to make a buck.
  I love that we have options but I hate the direction the internet as a whole is going. It makes me sad when I think too much about it.
idk why they are logging and how much amount of information they are logging but atleast they aren't selling that to the third parties or using that for personalized advertisements.
- That’s the thing, we don’t know that. We have to go on their word and look how that has turned out in the past.
  Reddit said no API changes and then they change the API, Facebook said they secure our data, and then the Cambridge analytics scandal came to light, Equifax told us that they could be trusted with our most personal credit information and they had a huge data breach.
  The fediverse is going to be new to a lot of people, such as myself, who don’t yet fully understand the ins and outs of how it works. It’s my understanding that it’s open source, but I unfortunately don’t have the competencies to review code and see where every piece of data is going and what is actually logged. I have heard of some websites being transparent with the data that’s logged, but there’s no guarantee that they’re telling the whole story.
  All that being said, I’m always happy when there’s a decentralized version of a service that people can use as an alternative.

What instance hasn't defederated from threads honestly

Fucking Mastodon
Fosstodon had the balls to not sell out
Also Meta has not federated yet but said they will in the future so any “defederation” from instances is just a declaration of future plans since there is nothing to cut off yet
My instance hasn't defederated from anywhere. This is exactly why I chose vlemmy
- exploding-heads even? Yikes

What's with all the hate about federating with Threads? I thought people would be happy to hear a big player is coming to the fediverse that's going to bring a bunch of people with it. "Normies" will probably never use Mastodon or Lemmy but might use Threads, so being able to communicate with them while staying on my little community-ran Mastodon instance is a win for the fediverse in my book. And if somebody's annoying or whatever, you can always block them, right? Can somebody clarify why people think everyone should automatically defederate with them and lose such a big userbase? I mean, I hate Facebook/Meta as much as the next guy, but more users are more users...

What’s with all the hate about federating with Threads? I thought people would be happy to hear a big player is coming to the fediverse that’s going to bring a bunch of people with it.
It's because corporations will embrace, extend, and extinguish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
Allowing corporations to have any level of control will result in this place dying.
- It doesn't even have to be extinguishing. It's bad enough if meta can reap the benefits of associating with FOSS (better privacy for example), while making their app the gateway to the fediverse. And of course that app will be spyware with social media on top. It's like greenwashing.
Threads owned by Zuck, which has both a "for-profit" and "unethical" mindset. In my opinion this mindset isn't fit for the fediverse in the place where it is now (people actually care about the community). Users will always come, we don't need papa Zuck for that. Healthy communities grow naturally, and I feel like the fediverse community is healthy enough.
Somebody posted an article here a few days ago about the ways big corporations kill Open source software. The broad overview was essentially that they'll adopt the standard, then expand on it to create a more feature rich walled garden. Then they axe the connections to the original protocols when they have critical mass, and begin the enshittification process. If meta is allowed to succeed in the Fediverse, it's the first step to meta owning any worthwhile platforms in the Fediverse.
Nobody should want any corporate social platforms in the fediverse they spy on you sell your data to the highest bidder and ultimately all are basically like the corner drug dealer
- All your fediverse data is public, they don't need to join the fediverse or spy on you to get it
If I wanted to hear what people who use FB products had to say, I'd be on those platforms
- Nobody said anything about FB users. I have seen a bunch of people I follow on Twitter trying to move to Threads. And if I could just completely abandon Twitter and communicate with these people I follow via Mastodon, I'd rather choose them move there. And nobody's making you talk to them if you don't want to, right? We are talking about _{being able} to talk to them, not having to.
I'm sure there's no profit motive for Meta to confederate.
- They do have a profit motive, because meta is in competition with lemmy for people's time and attention. The more attention/time/views meta gets, the better for them. So it is in their interest to find a way to create their own instance, make it the most popular one, and then use that popularity to shut out all other instances, effectively killing them.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
- Meta is a "for profit" company, so every move they make is for profit planned with their shareholders/board of directors, to approve their moves. These people only see $$$, sad but true.
- So only people without profit motive can beat part of it.... Change is scary I guess
Its that many people are convinced that Meta will EEE (Embrace, Extend, Extinguish). However we can’t just all defederate Meta from the Fediverse. We have to embrace them the same way they are embracing us. If they decide to try to kill us off, we will resist and stay united.

I wish all instances did. Sadly some have a growth mindset bigger than their own ego and don't mind the Zuck'

Until they are killed by the zuck
- Or until their quality users will leave

Here's the thing though:

If we don't defederate, the users can subscribe to our communities and get involved and make them stronger as they become the official go to places. We can always crush it later if it becomes a hassle.

If we defederate immediately, the users will make their own communities which will quickly leave ours in the dirt as the larger ones of the Fediverse.

Just a thought.

What does this mean? I don't get it.

Basically Zucc knows that fediverse (Mastodon/Lemmy) is a serious competitor, so instead of fighting it - he joined it. And named it "Threads" or smth (I don't know and I don't want to know)
The problem is that everyone bullied Zucc and "dropped him from their friend circles". No one wants to be friends with Zucc. 🤷😂
- The dangerous part is that he can start bribing admins of large instances to federate Threads. I'm not sure how one would practically defend against something like this. The only way I can think of would be for an admin to be so ideologically opposed to Meta that they would refuse even $1m to federate. But such people are rare.
The way I understand it: -you are somewhat at the mercy of the instance where you have your account(aka your home instance) -if your home instance defederates assholes.com, you can still see their posts but cannot vote or comment on assholes.com -you can get around this by creating a second account on assholes.com. You'll just have to remember to switch accounts
(Where is that guy on YouTube to explain this stuff)
- I thought defederation meant that you wouldn't be able to see the posts either? For example, quite a few Lemmy instances defederated lemmynsfw.com because they didn't want their users seeing NSFW content.

I wouldn’t share a tear for Meta’s new plaything, they’re gonna have more users on Threads on the first day than the entire Fediverse combined. Apparently they’re not even linking up yet, it’s still on their to-do list?

It’s a bit disconnected that anybody thinks meta is at all worried.
If anything, anybody wanting to get their instances in front of tons of eyeballs is going to be scrambling to federate (in an attempt to court away meta users)

Damn… I did not know Threads was going to be part of the fediverse. I only just found this unspoiled corner of the internet, I’d like it to stay as is please!

Lonely? I never felt such a sense of communality than here

I feel the same. I have real conversations and get real answers, without some annoying moderator or karmabot inserting themselves and stopping the discourse

I been gone for 3 days and I missed the drama! Awwww

You're delusional.

The fediverse stuff is just a bullet point on a sales sheet, Facebook doesn't give a shit about federating with Lemmy or Mastodon or whatever.

The reason they don't give a shit is they already have a user base that is multiple times larger than Lemmy and Mastodon combined. Also normal people don't even know what those things are. My mom doesn't know what Mastodon is, she does know what Twitter and threads is.

Which movie is this from? I can't seem to remember it

Narcos TV show on Netflix, this actor is portraying Pablo Escobar
- clutches pearls This actor?? Ziggurat, that is a Pedro Pascal!
  P.s. is it ziggurat as in, 'up the ziggurat lickedy-split'? Should I wave my hand around a certain number of times depending in the situation before saluting?
Narcos I think
Narcos, a TV show about the Colombian drug war and Pablo Escobar.

I think fediverse servers should adopt a set of sustainable limits for themselves, one of which should be: do not maintain more than X active users. If they have over that amount, they should shut down signups. If they don't shut down signups, everyone else should defederate them until they cooperate.

This is a really good idea. Maybe someone can make a site called “Too powerful” that lists the bloated instances or something.
However: I’m not super deep into lemmy architecture, but what would stop the instance ops from creating a “sister instance” the the same rules and owners?
- I think that should be considered willful subversion of the fediverse "tenates" which wouldn't be condoned. Sure, people could always do it in secret, but if they were ever exposed it would be grounds for defederation.
  Designing said tenates would take lots of open discussion from the community, but I do think it is important if we're going to maintain a working fediverse. Corporations like Google and msft have embraced/extended/extinguished open platforms in the past, and it looks like meta is trying the same thing again. If we say "the platform is open, everything is allowed, anyone is welcome, the fediverse will sort itself out" then it will inevitably be dismantled by organized attacks on the platform.
  The fediverse is both the technical architecture, and the decentralized culture of the people using it.

Oh man, this is genuinely depressing. I just checked it out for the first time and almost every thread I see is "omg this is so much better than twitter" "Guess we're all on threads now?" and just complete lack of awareness of the fediverse at all, and I'm just sitting here like "the fediverse has been better than twitter...and facebook....and instagram... and reddit.... for a long time now....." but everyone is just gonna throw flowers at Facebook for making a hackneyed handicapped version of it and there's nothing we can do.

This time next year everywhere you see little social media buttons and links the threads symbol will be there by default and people will still have no idea about Lemmy or Mastadon. I'm gonna try really hard to focus on how much of a good thing that is because of its lessening of the horrors of Eternal September in these spaces.