TIL what an Ortholinear Keyboard is
What Is an Ortholinear Keyboard, and Should You Use One?
I'm just a newb when it comes to high grade keyboards, but these things look wild, and I kind of want to try one.
This is what I use every day
That's a columnar stagger, not ortholinear.
I was kinda disappointed that this article didn't explain columnar stagger.
I daily drive an iris by keebio.
sweet
Is that your own layout, or is it a scheme like QWERTY or DVORAK that I haven't heard about?
Colemak is an alternative keyboard created by Shai Coleman, named as a portmanteau of Dvorak and Coleman. Its design goals consist of easy transition from QWERTY due to repositioning only 17 letter keys. Additionally the AZXCV shortcuts are in the same location perhaps allowing an easier time switching from QWERTY.
It also claims greater efficiency than Dvorak. Furthermore it places complete emphasis on the home-row: the ten most-common characters in English are on the ten home-row keys.
Source: Wikipedia
I type in dvorak and actually love it. It just feels comfortable when I type.
It's centered around Colemak but of course there is no standard for the extra thumb and pinky keys. I have enter, right shift, and FN on the right thumb, then spacebar, ctrl, and FN2 on the left thumb. FN2 makes the left side into a number pad.
This is something I would consider using. I've had issues in the past with tendonitis and I don't want that issue to get worse.
Moving away from qwerty to colemak-dh did more for my tendonitis than the keyboard itself. Having both an ortho linear / columnar stagger keyboard and a better layout is the end goal though. But the layout makes the biggest impact.
Then the next biggest impact will be getting a keyboard with a thumb cluster so you can do more with your thumb in a comfy position rather than your pinkies stretched out to the edges of the keyboard.
Ergodox makes keyboards like this. Don't know if they sell them in Colemak key position like this one, I know they do QWERTY. I've been meaning to get one myself for aaages, but I have too many other stupid things I spend my money on instead.
for keyboard shortcuts do they map with the key location or physically? for control + p (print page) would you press control + y or the actual p button?
They work the same, Ctrl+P for print. The layout is programmed into the keyboard microcontroller; your computer never gets any information beyond which key you're pressing.
Is that an ErgoDash? I use the same. Good for people who want a fuller keyboard layout.
yup
Interesting, what layout is that,
Colemak
Prefer column staggered, but yes they really make you wonder how we got stuck with the dominant keyboard configurations. Typing with linear columns feels way more natural.
Typewriters.
They had bars that needed to physically move, and so staggering them helped them not collide and get jammed.
If you imagine a bar coming from the center of each key towards your screen, you can see how the staggering was helpful. For instance, M misses J and K above it, naturally, but it also slightly misses I and the 8 above that.
It's a great solution for a nonexistent problem in keyboards.
Wasn't the whole idea to minimize the amount of times your typewriter seized up? Happened often enough with QWERTY keyboards when it came to the cheap typewriters. Yes, I'm old.
That is why the letters are all in a funny order, but that's not why the keys were staggered. They were staggered because of the mechanical linkages underneath the keys, so the linkages could be made straight rather than having to bend around other keys in the way.
I sense I'm about to fall into a deep, deep rabbit hole 😄
Resistance is futile.
(this is an expensive hobby just FYI)
Yeah custom keyboards get absurdly expensive very quickly.
Only if you keep getting new ones though and doing it DIY is pretty good too. Don't think I'd buy another keyboard again after building my current DIY one. Instead I'll just be designing my own from what I've learned that I've liked with this current one.
I had one of the ZSA moonlander split keyboards for a while and I loved parts of it. My RSI vanished.
1 - it was hard for me to use other keyboards that weren't colemak
2 - in split, if I took my hand off to use the mouse I found it hard to find the home row again. It took me like 2 months to learn colemak but never clued into the home row the same way I can on a normal keyboard.
3 - I felt like it took up a lot of space, not good for small spaces.
I'm of the firm opinion that the best keyboard layout and type is the one you feel most comfortable with.
But then I'm also of that opinion when it comes to things like desktop OSes, phone brands, etc.
It's not a popular opinion.
Unfortunately what you are most comfortable could also cause repetitive stress injury like carpal tunnel. I have a brother in law who damaged his nerves because a Macplus keyboard felt best to him.
That sometimes works, but sometimes the right way is not immediately comfortable so people so stuff that seems right and hurt themselves. Sometimes the thing that seemed correct initially was only because of a lack of deeper understanding and an ignorance of the knowledge of those who have already made the mistakes.
I dance, play instruments, drive cars, and do a whole lot of other things where the immediately comfortable thing is so often one of the best ways to develop a massively limiting habit that is a huge pain to get away from once you realize how badly it’s holding you back.
It’s a case-by-case basis, of course, but simply “the best is what you’re most comfortable with” does not have near the nuance it needs to not be abused. It is great advice for people once they have built up a strong base of knowledge, and until then they need to get over it and try things.
I agree with you when it comes to ergonomics. When it comes to software... Not so much. You do you though! No shade.
I share that opinion! Doowutchyalike!
Ergodox EZ has my whole hearted recommendation. Their keyboards are amazing and the only thing better for ergonomics would be a more custom curved piece.
They're a good company, I would recommend anyone checking them out.
Another vote for the ErgoDox EZ. It's pricey but very much worth the investment. Makes me hate every other keyboard I use lol
Second this, using my ergodox right now.
Using one right now. Never had a better one.
I just received my 4x12 keyboard 4 days ago! While there has been a steep learning curve and I took a huge hit on my typing speed, I really enjoy using it. I was a bit hesitant to spend much $$$ on something I wasn't sure about, so I decided that if I didn't like it that I could just use it as a macropad or use it in place of my dying Logitech G13 gaming pad. So far, I've been carrying it between work and home and using it for everything. If all goes well, this will be my main and only keyboard.
It's a CSTC40 that I bought from aliexpress. Unfortunately, it looks like they stopped selling it after I received mine (lucky me!). This unit seems to get shit on by mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, but I love it because it was cheap ($70CDN shipped) and didn't require soldering. I happened to have a set of keycaps that I've made work for this keyboard. I don't really look down when I'm typing, so I don't really care that some of the legends don't make sense.
Has your ability to type on a staggered keyboard taken a hit?
I figured out a mental trick after 2 days. It's hard to explain in words, but here goes...
In my brain, I created a second typing profile where in my minds-eye, I imagine the ortholinear keys while on my new keyboard. When I go back to my old keyboard, I try to keep my brain aware that it's the old layout. I have a Logitech G13, which is an ortholinear style gaming pad, so I think my brain was already wired for ortholinear finger movements and it was already natural for my brain to distinguish between the two.
Now, the "weirdest" keys for me to type on the old keyboard are C, B, Y. I realize how super annoying it is having to stretch my fingers out for some keys and that's why I'm certain that I'm going to stick with ortholinear in the long run.
Edit 25 days later: I am now slower on a staggered keyboard because my fingers are no longer accustomed to stretching far. I now hate the number row and backspace on staggered keyboards.
Are there full-size ortho keyboards?
Short answer: Yes. ID75 or XD75 pack in a full set of keys in 80% case. Some are pretty ridiculous - BFO-9000 or FU!Keyboard
Long answer: most orthos are designed so that you can hold layer shift keys with your thumbs(RSE, LWR for Raise and Lower) to type other keys(e.g. Lower+J types “-“ and Raise+J types “_”). This way you type the keys of a full layout without moving your hands off home row and with less keys overall.
I don't know of anything marketed as such, though some ortholinear POS terminals can be easily repurposed into big keyboards. The ortho users tend to be very interested in ergonomics, and one of the guiding principles there is minimizing hand movement (sometimes I personally think this goes a bit far; it seems to me that if it's good to move the rest of your body from time to time, it's good to move your arms and hands too). Most of them are quite small. The biggest size I've seen regularly is 75 keys in a 15x5 grid. Of course, ortho/ergo is also a very DIY-friendly space, so sometimes you see... outliers. LOL.
It doesn't get better than this though https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/charachorder/the-master-forge-a-keyboard-built-for-you
Why didn't they make it like a vertical mouse? Having your arm bones twisted the entire time is not good and one of the leading causes of carpel tunnel.
they include tenting kits, you can adjust it to however you like
looks interesting, but too bad it's not compatible 2 out of the 3 languages (Chinese, English, Japanese (only a bit)) I speak. I mean sure, I could just press the keys equivalent to those on a QWERTY layout, but that's probably not efficient.
That looks interesting! I have tendinitis, so used Kinesis Advantage for 8 years, then I got the Glove80 a few weeks back - I'd love to try the forge!
...hey, that's just like my library's old PET 2001, my first computer!..
Check out some of the keyboards posted here: !ergomechkeyboards@lemmy.world
Orthos are far superior to staggered keyboards. No finger is bigger than 1U and you don’t have to twist or move your hands.
Strongly disagree on the not twisting part. You need a split keyboard to get the proper wrist angle
I disagree with that for thumbs, mine tend to be much flatter against the keyboard than my arched fingers, so I can hit the split space and mods easier with my thumbs if that row is at least 1.5u and preferably 2u for at least the split space keys. 1Us on the bottom row forces me to either contort my thumb or even worse, use my fingers for the bottom row.
The devil's creation.
I have a planck at work and a preonic at home. It takes some time to get used to but now that I have switched I will never go back. I might try something split like a corne next but I'm kind of waiting for something that matches my olkb boards a bit better. Ortholinear would be the new standard if I had my way. I'm also eyeing that MNT Reform pocket pretty hard for that awesome keyboard but I really want them to release a tactile switch option for it.
I understood some of those words.
Olkb.com can probably answer most questions you have. They where one of the first to bring ortholinear keyboards to the market. Planck and Preonic are models they make. Preonic has a number row, planck doesn't. MNT is a company making open and hackable devices like laptops, they aren't making devices for the masses, instead trying to make something that is longer lasting and repairable. Their 'pocket' model has an ortholinear keyboard built in, and I just think that's neat.
I want to try it but I'm worried that I'll get too frustrated and then have (another) expensive keyboard that I don't use.
I use a planck as my daily driver. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have some good reasons to switch.
It took about 2 weeks of use and practice before I could type at a reasonable rate with it. And then it took about 2 weeks before I could type on a normal keyboard again.
I had a few reasons why I got one
I do think it's pretty cool. It's a conversation starter when people walk by my desk. The planck is a 40%, so most people haven't seen a keyboard that small.
Tried a Typematrix. At the time, I was a roving freelancer who frequently worked with other people at their machines, so I decided that it was safer to stick with a conventional layout.
Having Enter on the thumb was interesting, but I never got used to it.
My fingers are crooked and better suited to a normal keyboard lol
Have you ever used an ortholinear one?
No.
even with crooked fingers, unless your fingers are crooked in opposite directions an ortholinear one is still better
I have an ortho I made, and I just couldn't get used to it. I've never had any keyboard-related RSI, and my "spider dance" typing is very much a hand-eye coordination task, so... ehhh. No neuroplasticity for it.
I love my ortholinear 40%. I don't think I can ever go back.
They're dope. Everything being the same size (1u) is fun. I've only ever typed on one though. I have 4 custom keyboards and none of them are orthos.
the one on the thumbnail looks like it contains at least 95% cocoa
Ortholinear is a great gateway into better keyboards and a better layout. I started with a planck and used it to learn colemak-dh. I have since moved to a more DIY split keyboard with a columnar layout which is ortholinear except the volume are staggered to fit the length of fingers better.
This journey has been a godsend in helping my RSI issues from my Dev job.
interesting, how is the typing speed on those compared to normal keyboards?
Glove 80 keyboard:
There's also a wide world of alt letter layouts.
I would really love to try something like that, but I don't want to sink money into it just to realize I hate it.
Edit: 400$ for the Glove 80. As much as I love the idea, that's a no for me
Got a split keyboard (ergodox ez) just to notice that all the special keys are very tough to reach and there are no F-keys. All in all not such a great experience. The split part is good though if you type a loooot anf if you have wrist rests.
Look into DIY keyboards you can get PCBs created of the keyboards you like the look of for pretty cheap nowadays. You just need to be willing to solder, there's not many small bits for keyboards so it's not that hard.
I hate it because I love the way it looks, but I could never use one.
I can't use a split keyboard because of the way I've taught myself to touch-type. My fingers move around too much. On the other hand, I type around ~90 wpm (mostly using two fingers) so I win something or other.
I love my Glove80, had it for about a year now and couldn't be happier.
For anyone interested in alt layouts, https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/alt-layouts/index.html is one of the best introductions out there. Also https://lemmy.world/c/ergomechkeyboards is a nice resource on fancy keyboards.
I have this one, and never got used to it. I should try again.
As if Tony Hawk designs keyboards.