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  • Oh hell yes I have been wanting to rant about this

    So my main reasons for saying cats should be kept inside at all times do not apply to large dogs:

    1. dangerous to wildlife -- dogs are loud, oafish and slow. My dog couldn't catch an animal if her life depended on it
    2. vulnerable to predation -- again nothing around here could take down a large dog except maybe a bear, but they tend to stay away from people and dogs
    3. can get run over by a car -- only an issue if dog goes in the road

    All 3 of these issues are negated if the dog is properly contained by a fence. Unlike cats, dogs aren't climbers and so can be easily confined.

    As long as the weather is good, and the enclosure is large... Say a tenth of an acre back yard, or maybe larger, a dog would be perfectly fine outside and maybe even beneficial by keeping pests away, particularly deer. And likely would be happier and more stimulated than they would be trapped inside as long as they have access to shelter, food and water, and frequent contact with people.

    The whole "dogs are social animals and need to be kept in your house and allowed to sleep in your bed and eat out of your plates" attitude in a lot of dog specific spaces is nuts imo and a uniquely American phenomenon. They are not people, they are dogs.

    I would feel the same way about cats except as we have outlined many times cats allowed to free roam are a danger to themselves and unlike dogs can't be reliably confined, except with something like a catio.

    Under no circumstances should an animal be allowed to wander off of its owner's property, not only because it's disrespectful but also people are more dangerous than wildlife, putting out poison and stuff.

  • Lots of people will just put their dog on a chain or in a cage outside, and then basically forget about the dog for 23 hours a day. It's cruel and inhumane.

  • I had a very dogcentric childhood. My mother and dad (divorced) both had no less than 6 dogs at any point in my childhood. Most of my childhood at my moms she had 2 weinerdogs, 1 lab, 1 pitbull, 1 german shephard, and 1 outside beagle. Every day I'd spend 30min every 2hours taking them all outside so they didn't piss and shit on the floor.

    Last I knew, in addition to having 4 dogs that she actually cared about, my mom had ~4 pitbulls in her basement that just lived in cages unless she was taking them out to piss and shit. These dogs are rescues from kill shelters, bait dogs for dog fighting or breeders for the same reason. They end up in her care because one of her "pitbull activist" friends will call her saying they are going to be euthanized, and she'll come adopt them on the spot. These shelters know my mom well, and to her credit, she does manage to get some of these animals into homes that probably treat them atleast a lil better than she does. I don't think she realizes how neglectful she is but she gets INCREDIBLY defensive when anyone brings it up. They'd be dead without her, but I can't imagine the life she gives them is one much worth living.

    My dads dogs all came in at night, but they were all outside dogs living out in the countryside. My mother would always criticize the way my dad took care of his animals because he didn't keep them wormed but in comparison to my mother, I do feel like they had a far better quality of life. They did constantly terrorize the neighbors cows though, and there were a couple different occasions where my dad and I had to spend an afternoon picking birdshot out of them because a farmer shot at them. Eventually they ended up killing one of the neighbors cows and my dad had to pay, and that was a reason enough for him to stop getting new pets. His behavior was simply a different kind of neglect and I don't think it was good ownership at all, but I do think his dogs lived a better life than any of the dogs my mom had (including the indoor dogs I took care of growing up).

    I don't really like the idea of owning pets in general because of my childhood experiences, but if you must own dogs, I think you need far more space for them than most people would consider necessary so they can experience some semblance of freedom, and I definitely think atleast 1/3 of their time should be spent out in the wilderness having fun doing dog things (I don't know if there are environmental reasons not to do this so input would be welcomed).

    • The main issue with dogs in wilderness areas off leash is that they harass wildlife and trample understories, which can be home to vulnerable species. The wildlife harassment thing doesn't seem like it's a big deal except if it's every third hiker with an off leash dog then these poor animals are forced to live in a constant state of terror.

      As long as they're leashed and kept on trail it's not a big issue, and very very good for them mentally

  • It's already a thing in rural Poland, we gotta ask @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml as it's his area of expertise

    • There was always plenty of dogs in rural Poland, but since the traditional farming in last 30 years went into ass for small businesses, leeching off various donations and building Polish versions of McMansions there is barely difference from cities. Of course in the more backwards villages everything might looks as 50 years ago with dogs running freely or even be tied with chain (this is less common now as police slaps fines for this). Now about cities, there's very few outdoor dogs now, as control and registration methods are up. Shit is still everywhere though, i guess you can't have everything.
      Also in 90's after entire country went to shit because capitalism, both villages and cities were full of feral dog packs.

  • I forgot my dog (f1 labradoodle) outside for like a half hour the other day, no fence, no nothing he was totally free to be on his way. Instead he stood at the door the entire time waiting to be let in.

38 comments