Imagine going to the desert for a rave, in an apartheid state, mere miles from an open air concentration camp and not wondering if you are the baddies.
Imagine going to the desert for a rave, in an apartheid state, mere miles from an open air concentration camp and not wondering if you are the baddies.
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Targeting civilians is a war crime and should not be normalized.
Bulldozing peoples' homes after forcing them into an open-air prison and then throwing a rave twenty feet from the fence is a war crime and should not be normalized, but here we are.
And I am with you on that take. The settling policy and apartheid regime wasn't right. But that doesn't make killing tourists on a music festival any better.
No, please tell me more about how this attack is comparable to a brutal genocidal occupation that has been going on for generations. How little do you value Palestinian lives to make this calculation?
Two wrongs don't make a right. I despise the settling policies of Israel the same way most other people and governments in the west do.
Should Palestinians have a revolution against their oppressors?
What should it look like?
Attack the military, not civilians.
Palestinians need better military intel and equipment, I agree
Civilians or settlers…
I agree that Israel committing two wrongs does not put them in the right. Settlers shouldn't live on contested land and act surprised when it becomes a war zone.
act surprised
when it becomes a war zone.when it reverts back to being an active war zone*
And your response is the same as those people and governments. You blame the victims, wring your hands over their response to a violent occupation and give cover to the settlers by both-sidesing the situation
Wait are you saying western governments despise the Israeli occupation?
You’re not a civilian if you actively partake in an ongoing ethnic cleansing.
People are not synonymous with their government, and you have no way of knowing if only those segments of Israeli society that clapped at Palestinian suffering in the past are the ones being targeted now. Hamas fighters took up positions to deliberately shoot fleeing civilians. That's reprehensible.
Personally, if I didn't want to get shot in the back by an angry Palestinian fighting for liberation, I would live somewhere that isn't an illegal settlement mere kilometers from the open air prison where they're held.
Sounds like a skill issue to me!
Were the Native American attacks on white settlers encroaching on their land unjustified? Were those settlers innocent, or participating in the ongoing occupation and genocide?
I think we all know how this lib feels about that…
Support indigenous resistance until it poses any actual threat, then advocate for finishing the genocide
Yup it's only acceptable to support something until it actually posses any meaningful threat to the status quo, then suddenly the checklists and akshuallys and Lets not xxx get thrown out, tis the folly that is western social "Justisce".
Do you understand how settler colonialism works?
People go and settle land that is not theirs, taking it from the rightful owners, and the regime defends against any attempt to prevent that by using violence under the guise of claiming it is their right to "defend themselves".
These people are not innocent. They have actively chosen to take part in settling land that is not theirs, stealing it from the palestinians. They are willing participants in the zionist project of settling the land. Your participation in the claim that they are just defending themselves is literally participation in helping settler colonialism by perpetuating its myths.
The Palestinians are the ones defending their land. The settlers are the ones stealing it.
You cannot be an israeli and not partake in the attacks on Palestinian civilians. That's what makes you an Israeli. Literally the only way to be an Israeli.
There are literally Palestinians who hold Israeli citizenship
no
There is a minority of Palestinians who hold "Israeli" citizenship. Their existence is often employed as a zionist version of the "but I have a black friend" nonsense. The zionist settler state treats them like shit and mistrusts them.
Some Native Americans have American citizenship (not sure about the situation for those outside the USA). Does that magically erase the genocidal history of the USA?
But I guess the serial killers that invaded your house and killed your family should be thanked profusely for gracefully allowing you to sleep in the closet.
I'm not defending Zionism in any way, shape or form. I'm just pointing out the fact that a minority of Palestinians have "Israeli" citizenship while still being oppressed, much like native Americans.
This, of course, does not justify settler colonialism. Palestinians have an inalienable right to resist colonisation and any violence done to the colonisers by the colonised is justified self-defense.
You keep whining about unarmed civilians while completely ignoring the fact that the settlers shouldn’t be there. Being unarmed isn’t a card that you can play that absolves you of consequences. As long as you are an invader and occupier you will rightfully be at risk
You should be directing your reprehension at Israel exclusively, since Israel exclusively has the power to end all of this.
lmao your hexbear account got owned so hard you made a lemm.ee one to keep posting your settler bullshit
So tourists visiting contested areas are actively participating in genocide? Pretty bold take, don't you think?
Yes. Not even a little bold.
You keep using the term “contested areas” to obscure active colonialism
Yes. They are.
Permanently Deleted
if israel hadn't confined a couple million people to an open air prison while conducting a genocide against them for their entire lives we wouldn't have to deal with the reality of a completely hopeless group of people fighting back in any way they can
Israel has full conscription. All those festival goers were recently or will soon be soldiers. The only Israelis that can possibly be considered civilians are literal children
A lot of these festival attendees weren't even Israeli...
They shouldn’t be there either. Don’t fucking go to an apartheid state and then cry when the people who’ve been placed in an open air prison fight back
skill issue
Tell it to Israel. They deliberately target Palestinian civilians as standard protocol.
Hamas strategy was to blur the lines between military and civilians. This makes a distinction hard on purpose. For Israel the difference is easy to spot.
Besides that two wrongs don't make a right.
Now spot the difference between the pricks who stole your land and now live on it and the dipshits who are visiting them for a party. Imagine yourself (if you have the moral capacity) in the position of a Palestinian who’s been degraded, abused and neglected for their entire life. How much distinction do you think they would or should see?
The settlers (and yes, the tourists too) are the velvet glove over the iron fist of genocidal fascism. They seem oh so peaceful and fun-loving and innocent if you abstract away the machinery of violence that enabled them to be there.
Israel targeting civilians for decades normalized it
and that makes it okay?
It makes you an absolute dumbass for thinking Palestine has any part in "normalizing" civilian violence and not decades of genocidal policy from Israel that forced the Palestinian's hands. If Israel receiving a fraction of the horrors it has inflicted is what it takes to free Palestine then that's what it takes. It doesn't matter if it's okay or not, its gonna happen. No one is just gonna sit and wait to be eradicated they are gonna fight back. If you don't like how Palestine wages war then take it up with Israel for making war a necessity. If Israel doesn't like it they can simply stop occupying Palestine
The IDF is part of the Isrealis state. Hamas is not under the control of any state.
It's not that "it's okay", it's that one could have been stopped much more easily for decades, and the fact that it wasn't has largely precipitated this week's events. Just like the US fucked around with jihadists for decades, Isreal has done the same, and now tons of people are going to suffer from the blowback of fascist policy.
I encourage you to watch the Palestinians ambassador's statement on the topic from earlier today on the BBC (excuse the crappy title): https://youtu.be/Q65lBllbv1g
It's a tragedy that Israel caused it
Hamas strategy was to blur the lines between military and civilians. This makes a distinction hard on purpose. For Israel the difference is easy to spot.
Cool we agree then, Israel should stop doing it
You don't think killing 200 unarmed civilians at a music festival is a war crime?
Settlers aren't civilians
There weren't only settlers on this music festival, but lots of tourists as well.
Having a rave on occupied territory is a war crime
IOF has done millions of warcrimes.
I would have never expected that from the International Osteoporosis Foundation
And that makes doing them okay?
Which side are you on? One of them is a genocidal fascist apartheid state and the other is a desperate group that has been forced to live their entire lives in a concentration camp.
No. It was cool and good.
I hate to break it to you, but targeting civilians is done all the fucking time by literally everyone.
And that makes it okay suddendly?
Why expect the oppressed to play by better rules than their oppressors?
We know, as our readers know, that the people are the resistance and vice versa: it is the relationship between the sword and shield, the heart and arm. Every Palestinian struggles under the occupation. As this historic battle rages on, we know that the tactics of the occupation will evolve. They will continue to target homes regardless of the presence of resistance activity in an attempt to demoralize the Palestinian people, draw blood, and accelerate their genocide.
As this happens, it is our obligation to our principles that dictates we must not fall into the trap of distinguishing between armed resistance fighters and non-combatants, as every Palestinian has a role in the current state of affairs. Every martyr must be mourned, and every zionist strike must be seen for the crime that it is. We will not allow the occupier or Western media to dehumanize us by creating distinctions between a colonized people whose remained existence on their lands is "militant."
Every Palestinian is a civilian even if they hold arms. A settler is an aggressor, a soldier, and an occupier even if they are lounging on our occupied beaches. As the IOF calls up thousands of reserves, it is clear that all settlers are soldiers. There exists a colonizer and the colonized, an oppressed and the oppressor. The people cannot be dissociated from resistance, because we are in a constant state of resistance.
Certainly, an explosive response is coming.
This struggle has been imposed on us. To resist is to survive, and to resist is a right.
Think about that next time you see people telling you to vote for the "Obama Tan Suit Dijong Mustard" party
Then you should be happy to know Hamas didn't target a single civilian in their operation. The zionist regime on the other hand only ever seems to target civilians.
Shani Louk is literally a 22 year old woman from germany - not even Israeli.
And there where hundreds of other guests at a music festival getting killed. Or do you claim that this was a secret military bootcamp?
Maybe they shouldn't have gone to a rave on what the UN has ruled is an illegally occupied territory? Most western countries have travel warnings about going to dangerous countries and territories.
'You went to a festival in a contested area. You deserve to die'
Is that really your strongest argument?
If ravers got killed by a Ukrainian missile in Crimea would you care?
Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.
If someone went to a festival in a war zone, I’d say that probably wasn’t the best decision 👍
Totally normal 22 year old German women who went to a music festival in sight of the world's largest concentration camp, yep just a normal thing one does
'You went to a festival in a contested area. You deserve to die'
Is that really your strongest argument?
Why would you go to a rave in a war zone? Sounds like a skill issue to me
'You went to a festival in a contested area
The fact you think this is a normal thing to type is hilarious
European in an illegally occupied area (and war zone) is just a whoopsie!
Oh you know it's just one of those things we all do, attending festivities in contested war zones where war crimes are committed on the regular, just normal activities for normal people
If China hosted a rave in Xinjiang province and some Europeans attended, you would be calling for everyone in attendance to be executed immediately and without trial.
22 year old woman from germany - not even Israeli.
Wrong! According to Spiegel, she never lived in Germany, her mother was a convert to Judaism who immigrated to Israel and her father was Israeli. Besides, I don't see how it even helps your argument to point out that some of the colonizers are of German nationality. Historically speaking, that's never a good thing.
Settlers are not civilians. They are non combat support of the occupation.
They killed not only settlers, but a lot of other people, too.
If 100 europeans attend a rave in a genocidal apartheid state with 900 illegal colonizers of the genocidal apartheid state you have 1000 people actively upholding a genocidal apartheid state.
live in settler state, you are a settler
People asked so you many legitimate questions, and like the hypocritical coward you are you haven't answered a single one
Again why do you elevate the lives of Israeli settlers over that of Palestinians? Why do you imply it was Palestinians who normalized civilian deaths and not the Israeli apartheid state? When are you gonna speak up about the 91 children Israeli bombs have already killed? Piece of shit
I answered almost all questions – expect for the people using slurs.
Nobody used any slurs you lying piece of shit
