Racism in Germany is the norm not the exception – DW

A lot of words to defend bigotry. The human species can be a lot of awful things if we look to our worst nature. Our major advantage as a species is that we evolve faster culturally than most species can genetically. It makes us highly plastic and adaptable to our circumstances. It also means we don't need to be assholes just because we can be. We can redefine and shape what is means to be an outsider. And, if a human can look at a drawing of a cartoon dog and feel empathy and humanize it and have their brains label it as part of the in group, we can definitely manage to not dehumanize other people just because they have different religions and customs. Appealing to tribalism is a bullshit excuse.

Religions are ideas. Ideas dont have rights. Humans have. You are free to criticise ideas & religions. They dont have rights. Criticising a religion is not bigotry.
- we can definitely manage to not dehumanize other people just because they have different religions and customs. Appealing to tribalism is a bullshit excuse.
  Why was your reaction to that to defend "criticising religion"? If this is mixed together for you, then it seems your idea of "criticising religion" indeed contains bigotry and can serve to dehumanize people.
  I am not saying this to attack you. I hope it can give you some reflection. Religion is one of the mayor aspects chosen to persecute people on and we have seen anti-religious hate propaganda, in particular against Muslims running through western societies nonstop for the past decades. This kind of bigotry is incredibly subversive and very difficult to overcome. Even more so, if you aren't conscious of it.
- Treating people badly simply for holding a religious belief, so long ad those beliefs do not directly infringe on others (paradox of tolerance blah blah), is bigotry. Using mental gymnastic to say that the people themselves are not being treated poorly is disingenuous.
  
  Yes of course, but Islamic beliefs directly infringe on others.
  At the same time, more compassion is needed in dealing with people who have been drawn into deceptive and even dangerous religious thinking (I'm not just referring to Islam). Only then will they be able to leave the cult.
  
  Islamic/religious beliefs don't necessarily infringe on others. I'm not religious. But religion is more complicated than what you're portraying.
  
  But of course they always try and it's not just the Muslims, just look at Opus Dei for example, which is one of the groups behind the Heritage Foundation's Project 25, whose current President is Kevin Roberts.
  Here you can see Kevin Roberts speech at CIC (Opus Dei Headquarters on K Street, Washington DC) last year,
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqgfhZpRZhg
  The Opus Dei is also involved in Silicon Valley, for example they're involved with Peter Thiel,
  https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/the-final-conversations-of-a-dying-priest
  
  I understand the issues with organized religion. It's just not an excuse to discriminate against religious people in general when most are low on the religious hierarchy and don't actively hurt or want to hurt others.
  
  No it isn't.
  
  What is this, middle school?
Feels good saying this doesn't it?
- For someone coming in with an air of all facts and logic in your first post, this response is pretty underwhelming.
  
  It's a different person
  
  So it is! Still in underwhelming response.
  
  If you take it as an honest reply, it is deeper than it appears and fits good into your concept of conditioning.
  I may just be too generous and naive though.
  
  Indicating that people who argue that humans aren't intrinsically shitty and appeal to our better nature are performative, as you're inferring due to social conditioning, by just being super dismissive is still underwhelming.
  
  Did he really indicate all that? Was it dismissive?
  What if it was an honest remark? Doesnt it feel good to know this stuff and being able to write it out?
  You're probably right and he was trying to be an asshole, but judging by the votes I dont seem to be the only one that didnt take his reply as snark.
  Edit: I went through their profile now and am convinced they were completely serious without any snark.
  
  Maybe they were being genuine and not sarcastic. I came out swinging because I was riled up by the first poster to be honest. If they're genuine, then I feel like a bit of a dick. Oops.
  
  I think I would've reacted the same way if I wouldn't have been an outsider.
  Rarely do I have positive interactions on here, so my initial reaction is defensive as well with everything that makes it into my inbox.
Our major advantage as a species is that we evolve faster culturally than most species can genetically.
Can we? Is this a statement of fact, or is this just wishful thinking on your part? Because I know quite a bit about history and, time and time again this doesn't seem to be true whatsoever. We are tribalistic by nature, and we've never been able to permanently break this fact.
It's not appealing to tribalism, it's understanding of the factual nature of ourselves. You have to know the worst of humanity, because you're never going to rid yourself of it. Many things will knock us down as people to our most basic of instincts, and these basic rules still govern our actions.
I happen to live in the real world, not some idealistic utopia of what the world "could be".
- Yes. Its observable just by looking at culture and society now versus thousands or even just hundreds or tens of years ago and comparing it to the time it takes for even a subspecies to arise. And, as information exchange speeds up due to technology, culture exchanges even faster and society develops faster.
  I didn't say we don't have in groups and out groups (tribalism). I say we have control over what we consider in and out groups. It's not idealism. It's not what the world could be. Its just observable fact. We've literally shifted cultural perception in the last 50 years on all sorts of in and out groups (black and gay people are easy examples).
  
  We didn't shift cultural perception at all. We may have enacted laws, but the people aren't any more or less receptive than they have been. That will take generations. Only thing that happened is that people hid it. Take a good long look at US politics and tell me that gay people and black people are any more accepted than they were...as half the population looks to tear down the institutions which allowed their equality to happen...
  You haven't changed people. Your society hasn't changed what people are. They've only changed what you see from the outside. It's only people like you, who have never had to live in the dregs of society who have this rosey ideal of the world.
  Culture comes and goes. Shifts and ebbs and flows. Humanity may take longer to evolve, but that also means that what has evolved is much more stable, and much more rock solid than 'civility' could ever budge. We have higher-order thinking brains, and lower-order feeling brains. The lower-order feeling brain is the one that drives sex, food, hunger, and survival. That tribalistic instinct comes from that lower-order brain, and no amount of education will ever eliminate how it functions. The only way to do that would be eugenics, and the world has decided that is a "bad thing".
  
  If you actually think gay people are accepted the same now as in the 80s then you're so dedicated to nonfactual pessimism that it's a lost cause. Is there still room for improvement? Yes. But gay people used to be treated like lepers by general society.
  Also its blatantly incorrect that half of society wants to tear down institutions that help black and gay people. Don't get me wrong. It's really bad. There are too many hateful people. But never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. I think we both agree people can be very stupid, but really disagree in the way we see that play out. Many who vote maga are low information voters. But that's because the right wing runs a propaganda machine of the highest order that promises these people the fascists aren't the bad guys who want to take away peoples rights. Even then, not even half the population voted maga.
  You're not laying out facts. You're feeding into negativity in a way that exaggerates things in a way that is harmful. For example, you just inferred eugenics might not be a bad thing? Serious wtf my man. You need to get a grip on your pessimism because its warping your mind. You're seeing threats in a way that you're horseshoeing into what you criticize.

Germans suffer from mass obedience and mass conformism more than any other country in western Europe I've been to. It's a national disease

Lagom e best is commonly said in Sweden for a reason.
- What does it mean?
  
  I misremembered it‘s spelled lagom är bäst. It means the middle is the best. Meaning mediocre non-confrontational conformity is great, among other things.

I'd fucking die if I'd be surrounded by a homogenous mass of "typical germans". My fellow germans, mind you.

L take.

You don't have to confirm to society WHEN OUR SOCIETY IS ABOUT LIBERTY