Trump signs executive order intended to bar transgender athletes from girls' and women's sports
President Donald Trump has signed an executive order designed to prevent transgender athletes from participating in girls' or women’s sports.
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It's not that simple, you need to understand the effects that Hormone Replace Therapy has on the body. Men and trans women physically do not have the same type of body and the studies even shows trans women perform worse than cis women in most areas.
I want you to stop and really think critically about what you are trying to suggest. Do you really think it's a good idea for trans men who are regularly taking testosterone should be forced to compete against women who aren't? Do you really think trans women who have lower testosterone levels than cis women (because they are medically surpressing) have some sort of advantage?
What you're saying is at odds with observable facts, scientific studies and frankly common sense.
I started a transitioning over the summer and I have lost 15 lb. Considering I had such a low BMI to begin with, I'm sure most of it is muscle.
is at odds with observable facts
Welcome to life after 2015 where facts don't matter and he who shouts the loudest and the craziest wins all discussions
Sounds like we need trans leagues.
Edit: I thought it was obvious, but apparently it wasn't. This is not a serious comment.
"it was a prank, bro!"
This is how I read your edit.
That's fair.
Do away with gendered leagues and put it into a multi-tiered system when people compete for positions in different tiers, and potentially have multiple paths so that people can see games of sheer power or precise technique and there's never a situation like three Pats or the Yankees where money is what buys the best team (all players in a tier would have similar performance).
I've been under the impression that the top leagues NFL, MLB, NHL, etc.. aren't necessarily gendered, but women just can't compete. That's why they have women only leagues so they have a place they can compete. Am I wrong about this?
There are sports where women have reached or surpassed men's records, for example long-distance endurance races or some accuracy-based competitions. Anything where raw explosive strength or size isn't the main deciding factor. There are examples in history where women have been banned from participating in specific sports because they have been able to win in competition with men.
I think, for the leagues you listed, size, strength and speed are often key, and as such most men have an advantage over most women. I don't doubt there could be exceptions to that rule.
I have asked people like this multiple times if the best WNBA player is better than the worst NBA player, and they usually say yes without having any possible way to know that.
I mean, you could ask me instead of assume. I would respond I have no idea about that specifically because I don't like basketball and don't pay attention to it at all. However, I do watch the NHL and the PWHL. Do I think the worst NHL player is better than the best PWHL player? Yes. I don't even think the PWHL is at the AHL level of play. Just watching the speed of the plays, the structure of the plays, they're not close. The PWHL play is more like men's collegiate play. So, if you're asking me if I would rather draft someone at that play level that is in their prime playing at their peak, or someone that is playing at that level who is a young player with room to grow, it's an obvious choice.
Here's the other part of that. The PWHL is an incredibly young league only 2 years old and with only 6 teams. It takes time, generations even, to develop the interest and the infrastructure to support young women/girls in hockey (or anything). You don't wave a magic wand and suddenly have a vast pool of women that can play at that level. Do I think that league will mature and get younger women interested in playing more and fostering even better future talent? I really hope so, I would love to see it. At that point, will my answer change? It's very possible. Circling back to your WNBA question. The WNBA is a much more mature league, 28 years old with 15 teams. We're probably just now seeing the true "fruits of the labor" of that league. I'm just entirely unqualified to make that kind of judgment because I have zero interest in that sport. But even I know of Caitlin Clark, and that speaks volumes.
Assume what? I wasn't even talking to you.
Or is this a "I forgot which sockpuppet I was using" situation?
Ah yes, the Air Bud rule of women in men's sports.
Do you think any woman would have a chance in those leagues? The minute they even tried, they would start getting so much shit.
Jackie Robinson was one of the bravest men who ever lived. He was far from the first to try to break the "unwritten" color barrier in baseball. Everyone else who tried had been driven off before they could even start. And I'm guessing he wasn't getting the rape threats any woman who wanted to try would get.
So you're saying that women just aren't brave enough?
Of course not. Do you think all the black men who tried to break the color barrier before Jackie Robinson weren't brave enough?
Saying, "this isn't worth me putting up with" when you have to put up with death threats or rape threats for something like being on a sports team is not cowardice.
This is like claiming that a black family who moves out of town after a cross is burnt on their lawn are cowards. I sincerely hope you don't believe that.
I didn't make any such claim. You did. Now you're back peddling, so I guess there wasn't any point to your previous comment?
I didn't say you made that claim. Hence my using the word "like."
And how am I backpedaling at all? You asked me if I thought they were cowards and I said no and explained why. That's literally the opposite of backpedaling.
Did you just not bother reading anything I wrote before responding?
I didn't ask if you thought they were cowards. I asked if you think the only reason aren't in major leagues is because they aren't brave enough. That's the implication you made by bringing up Jackie Robinson on the context you did and adding that he was exceptionally brave.
Did you just not bother reading anything I wrote before responding?
Are you reading what you're writing? What is the point of anything you're writing? What message are you trying to convey?
How many trans athletes do you think there are that there's enough for leagues? Some states have like single digits. It's ridiculous. The fact that a president is spending time on this is absurd. This is a local school district issue if that.
No, I don't think there is enough. That's the joke.
Only thing that is fair imo.
Fair to whom?
Everybody. It eliminates any sort of discussion.
Discussion about what? And what is wrong with discussion?
About gender and strength and everything.
You can't even articulate an explanation.
You beleive things, you don't understand them
What's wrong with discussing such things?
I don't know what you're trying to do here but it doesn't feel nice. The comment was "Sounds like we need trans leagues." And I said that's the only thing that's "fair".
Because I don't think it's fair to have trans people play with the cis genders. On the other hand, I want them to have the ability to play. Although with the current landscape of hate and useless discussions, that seems to be only possible in their own leagues.
Compromises need to be made and people don't realize that.
Because I don’t think it’s fair to have trans people play with the cis genders
Why?
On the other hand, I want them to have the ability to play.
Which specific sport do you want them to play? There are not enough trans athletes for any team sport to make up a league. Should they all be forced to play a singles sport or no sport at all?
Sure just kill 12 specific kids across the entire US in the name of “being fair”. Fuck those 12 kids. How DARE they exist.
I show people pictures of guys like him every time I see some bigot talk about how women are uncomfortable changing next to trans women in locker rooms and that they should be restricted to biological sex. "So you're saying women will be comfortable changing next to that "woman," are you?'"
Sure let's base everything off of kid's and young adult's birth genitalia rather than their athletic abilities in athletic competitions. I guess all that noise about "meritocracy" was just bullshit, right? Also the noise about "participation trophies" was bullshit too since we can't have anyone with any perceived advantages in competitive environments.
You don't know any trans ppl do you?
my argument there is that no one under 18 should be using hormonal treatment to treat gender dysphoria.
You do not deserve to stand between psychiatrists, endocrinologists and their patients. The medical community overwhelming disagrees with this assertion and you do not have the right, authority or education to make these sort of limitations.
People will make up all kinds of mental gymnastics
Science. We use scientific studies. Your gut reaction and feelings are not more valid than numerous peer reviewed studies.
Amazing how transphobes never even try to address this. It’s almost as if they’re acting in bad faith
Didn't you know? Transphobes are far more well-versed in human sexual biology than anyone who studies it for a living.
Degrees from Asshole University are more well-regarded than Harvard or Oxford.
not to mention you shouldn't fucking be a cunt about trans people.
Are you also opposed to people under 18 undergoing chemotherapy for cancer, given the very permanent effects of such a thing? Or is dysphoria the only medical condition you think children should be made to just suffer from?
Isn't 16 the age of consent in most countries
I do not refute that gender affirming care does lead to better outcomes. I said that no one under 18 should be receiving hormonal treatment to treat gender dysphoria
Please actually read the links. It very clearly leads to better outcomes for minors.
It literally stops suicides. What people like this are essentially saying is that they are okay with children committing suicide for the sake of the children.
Very level headed take. I agree.
