'Damning' New Poll Shows Price Kamala Harris Paid for Backing Israeli Genocide in Gaza
'Damning' New Poll Shows Price Kamala Harris Paid for Backing Israeli Genocide in Gaza | Common Dreams
And now America is paying the price for a bunch of people who thought that they would somehow stop genocide abroad by enabling the man who wants genocide domestically.
Yeah, I don't know how to read this except "voters a fucking morons, obviously."
Nothing new there but it didn't stop Democratic candidates from doing what they needed to win elections in the past
Now now, he ALSO wants genocide abroad.
He always did.
You won't have a hard time arguing that Donald Trump is a massive piece of garbage, but your comment presumes that Kamala Harris and the Democratic party are entitled to votes.
You'll find there is a large portion of the Democratic base who are not motivated to vote for a pro-genocide candidate, which is exactly the entire point of this poll. The Democratic party needs to do better and stop fighting against the progressive wing of the party if they ever want to regain the trust of working class people. At a bare minimum you would expect them to respect international law.
Then again, they're doing exactly what AIPAC and defense industry paid them to do, same as the Republicans.
Not only was she pro-genocide, but also an anti-immigration, pro-corporate, pro-police, and "maintain the status quo" candidate. I don't know a single measure that one could use to make her seem left-wing.
The DNC did the same with Biden and Clinton and nearly lost both of those times too. It's almost as if they want the Republicans to control everything if it means they don't have to actually advance leftist policy that is good for the country. Even Obama's crowning achievement was a Republican drafted healthcare plan that cemented the private medical insurance model into law.
My comment presumes her opponent was a rapist fascist dictator. But that wasn't enough for Americans.
And the Democratic Party isn't going to do better because it will only exist in name only from now on. You and others got what you wanted. Now you're going to have to live with the consequences. If you live.
As someone who voted for her, if you could stop blaming others for having strong feelings regarding who they give their vote, that'd be very chill. At this point I am pretty comfortable telling you that you're causing more division and strife than you are helping. And, as far as I last understood, you're out of here, right? If you could do me a favor and stop demotivating those of us trying to stick it out and fix it, I'd take it as a kindness.
You know what I would have taken as a kindness? Not having a bunch of queerphobic bigots get put into power.
No, sorry, I won't stop giving my opinion about the mistake America has made that has forced me to drop my entire life and pack everything into a couple of suitcases so that I can ensure my daughter is not taken away from me so that you can feel more motivated.
Abso-fucking-lutely not. My life has been destroyed by this. I will never see my elderly mother in person again. So you and anyone else who want me to shut up about the dire mistake America made are just out of luck. It will not happen.
(Gotta wonder if you would tell a refugee from another country where they had to flee to shut up about it because they were causing divisions back there.)
I just want to preface this that as a trans person I totally understand your fears and agree they are completely valid - however I also want to make you aware of your relative privilege (being able to pack up and leave the US) - compared to almost all Palestinians that cannot do the same on top of also not being able to see their parents - not because of immigration but because they've been blown up by American bombs.
I just want to point out that by blaming voters for not compromising on their values around human rights (instead of blaming the DNC for enabling genocide) - you're showcasing that you personally care more about your child's domestic rights being threatened than Palestinian children being killed - yes both are atrocious but I would hope that you can see how being killed right now should take precedence over likely (but avoidable) suffering down the line.
Instead you're saying that your daughter's safety is more important than middle eastern children dying (which for you personally is valid) - but you can't claim that everyone else should care about your child's potential struggles in the future vs other's children's deaths right now.
I just hope you will now become more understanding of the Palestinian struggle (as a refugee yourself) and will fight for the DNC to recognize both your rights and theirs as you now more viscerally understand how you're both in the same boat.
Excuse me? How the fuck much more understanding do you want me to be? I've written hundreds of letters and made dozens of phone calls on behalf of JVP to try to stop American politicians from supporting Israel. Literally hours and hours of my time.
What the fuck have you done other than berate people on the internet for not caring as much as you do?
This doesn't need to turn into a pissing contest as I see you care about the Palestinian cause.
I too have spent countless hours protesting on the ground, being threatened and followed by police, helping comrades deal with the abysmal legal system and some other things I don't feel comfortable admitting on a public forum - but I don't see this as justification to blame others for the voting choices they've made - I've used my privilege to help as much as I can - not because that allows me to "berate people on the internet for not caring as much" but because it's the only thing that helps me sleep at night.
I'm glad you're involved in the cause - I just wanted to highlight how we should have class solidarity against the ruling class and not divide ourselves based on who's not voted for whom as if that's what makes it or breaks it.
I’m glad you’re involved in the cause - I just wanted to highlight how we should have class solidarity against the ruling class and not divide ourselves based on who’s voted for whom as if that’s what makes it or breaks it.
Well then you did that poorly, because this was an accusation that I did not care enough and do not do enough when you did not actually know:
I just hope you will now become more understanding of the Palestinian struggle (as a refugee yourself) and will fight for the DNC to recognize both your rights and theirs as you now more viscerally understand how you’re both in the same boat.
So maybe reflect on how pointing fingers and making assumptions is not the best way to build solidarity.
Fair, I can understand how it came across that way - I didn't mean to blame anyone but the DNC for losing an election by not doing the one thing most of their voters wanted them to do.
Come on, stop being so divisive. Why are you getting upset at a group of people who's actions directly contributed to empowering someone who put an anti vaxxer in charge of health, actively believes the greatest threat humanity has faced so far is a hoax and wants to strip your fellow citizens of rights. Can't you just be a bit more understanding of the fact that they felt icky?
/s
Noted.
Precisely. Harris enabled her opponent to win by having a weak stance on Israel. She handed him the keys to the White House, as the article clearly describes, by not standing up and speaking out against genocide.
I'm sorry, but putting the entirety of the blame on Harris when there were plenty of people who didn't care whether or not a rapist fascist dictator got into power and plenty of others specifically telling people not to vote for Harris is ludicrous.
There is so much blame to go around and people like you who just blame Harris now make me think that you were part of the group telling people to absolutely not vote for Harris no matter what. People like you are why I have to flee for my daughter's safety.
Are you that dense? You’re literally trying to blame voters for Kamala’s support of genocide.
You get a big nope. Nope out of here with that noise.
I am doing no such thing and that's a ridiculous lie to tell.
That’s literally what you’re doing. Candidates are not entitled to votes.
Oh, okay. Well you know Flying Squid better than I do because I didn't think he even implied that candidates were entitled to votes.
Please continue and tell me more about this Flying Squid fellow because I really thought I could get inside his head and figure out what he was thinking.
Good luck with that, as of now he seems to have multiple personality disorder, but I’m no doctor 🤷♂️
You're certainly not because that is not a recognized psychological disorder, but the issue here is that I thought I was Flying Squid, but you're telling me Flying Squid is saying things that I definitely did not in any way even imply.
So who am I?
By the way, can you please quote where Flying Squid said a candidate is entitled to votes? Because I've read everything Flying Squid has said in this thread and I have yet to find it.
(This is where you refuse to quote what you claim was said if this plays out how these things normally do.)
Edit: called it.
You pretty much implied it, I’m sorry if you can’t see the connection you yourself implied but maybe see that others in the thread also see and recognize the implications your statement made
Oh look, you're back without a quote.
Fine, please quote the person you are claiming is me implying it.
You've literally already had a day. How many more days is it going to take? Because just admitting what you said is a lie isn't going to happen so I'm really interested to see if you're going to keep stretching this out or you're going to give up.
Correct, candidates are not entitled to votes, but I dont know what voting system your fantasy world uses.
Lets ignore parties for a moment and just say you have two people running that are different degrees of evil. I would argue a failure to vote for the lesser evil is to abide the greater evil (does this make you evil?). In this case, abstaining or apathy itself is also a choice, and would be cosidered evil because you did not act against the greater evil.
Lets add a more realistic third candidate in and demonstrate the spoiler effect. Where there is an idealogical divide, the side with the fewer candidates wins. If a third party throws their hat into the ring, they end up encroching on support held by their idealogical peers, effectivly handing the win to their oppsition by simply existing.
Combining both of these observations looks an awful lot like the electoral college and the US voting system. Neither major party is willing to allow a third party to exist in their space, because if they do they lose by spoiler effect and forces people to strategicly vote instead of standing by their ideals. The solution is getting rid of first-past-the-post and moving to a ranked choice or instant run-off system similar to the ones found in the EU, this would allow people to put their ideal candidate first without jepordizing their idealogical peers. Until such a time when that is a reality, being a protest voter/non-voter is making a choice against your own self interests and the interests of those you care for.
Living in a blue state, I chose not to vote for Harris, I understand what I was doing. Harris got all of my state’s electoral college votes and I did not vote for her or Trump. I also chose not to vote for any senators or reps who receive aipac money, but I also live in a blue county in a blue state….
Can you provide some sort of evidence that Harris supports genocide?
She said she would change nothing and continue to fully support Israel the same as Biden, she had multiple opportunities to clarify and doubled down.
I can’t see your question as a good faith one.
Hundreds of folks in lemmy alone continuously argued during the election campaign that Harris wouldn’t support the genocide as much as Trump would, which in itself shows they already believed Harris was supporting a genocide.
What I heard her say at the DNC was; "We need Israel, we're in a huge bind with that, but we're absolutely not ok with what is happening in Palestine and we're working to stop it".
A claim was made. I asked for evidence supporting that claim. I don't see how the question is in bad faith.
None of that is evidence of her supporting genocide. "You're wrong and everyone thinks so" is kindergarten level "evidence".
People need to recognize that this "war" (aka genocide of unarmed civilians) is happening between two different countries. As much as the US gov likes to think so, it is not the world's daddy. It doesn't have the power to come into any situation across the globe and immediately put a stop to it. Does the US hold a massive amount of political influence? Yes. But they still have to USE that influence to get things done, and weigh the impact using that influence could have on their military readiness for the region (which is important to maintain, now that it's there, unfortunately). They could absolutely stop funding Israel's military stock. Do you think that would immediately stop the genocide? I think it could cost the US an ally, which would remove ANY influence they have over them. This is a snippet of geo-politics that should highlight the necessity to handle complex problems with thoughtful, measured diplomacy. Personally, I don't want a world in which the US can "lay down the law" wherever, however, and whenever they want. Even when it's for the right reasons. Imperialism got the US into this mess. I'm not convinced more imperialism will solve it.
If geo-politics weren't what they currently are, I would love for the US to end it's relationship with Israel and immediately deploy troops to stop them. If domestic politics weren't what they currently are, I would love to not vote for people I don't agree with, on most issues, because I don't get candidates that are progressive enough for me (or the many problems in the US ). But, as a gay man, I have to recognize the reality of my situation, and the domestic threats to my family, that are on the horizon, because people like you threw us (and all minorities/ immigrants) under the bus to make some point about your idealogies. Petulant children, the lot of you.
I guess you’re going to pretend like Biden didn’t directly fund the Israeli genocide against Palestinians.
🤷♂️
And as for you having the sads about who I voted for? I don’t give a fuck who you think I should or shouldn’t vote for. That’s the whole point of voting. I make my own choices. And my state electoral college votes all went to Harris. You’re talking out of your ass and blaming voters when the person who deserves 100% of the blame is Harris and the DNC…
She literally stood and spoke out against genocide at the DNC. Granted, it came off a little soft but, she very clearly said that her administration does not condone genocide and that they would use various strategies to put pressure on Israel, while "maintaining strategic military alliances in the region". It was a tactful/"politically-savvy" way to say it, but she did speak on it and promise action. I may be wrong, but I don't think we can say the same for Donny.
a) A soft stance against genocide is not a very good stance on genocide.
b) Biden also said he was against genocide. His position is that all the starvation, collective punishment, and attacks against civilian infrastructure just weren't genocide so nothing much needed to be done. She said she didn't disagree with anything he had done.
And just to jump to the next step of this conversation, yes, Trump was vocally worse and while it's hard to imagine being much worse than what Biden has done, I think he has the potential to figure out a way. A sober and objective and rational game theorist should choose to vote for Harris.
But that's not how voters work. "We're 98% bad, but he'll be 100%" isn't a message to keep your coalition together. Emotional voters will cut off their nose to spite their face and that's a fundamental aspect of how politics works that can't be ignored or dismissed because they should do something else.
Well, I suppose it's a good thing that wasn't "the next step of the conversation", internet-stranger-oracle. What an odd and presumptuous way to make an argument...
What I would have said is; So, no evidence? You're right that a softly worded stance on genocide is not a good one. It also isn't supporting genocide. Those two things are long and far apart. Harris' statement on Israel was political/tactful because she knows that US military bases in Israel are extremely important for US interests in the region. She had to give an answer to a very complex question, without alienating or enraging multiple different groups, with very different interests, while still promising some action will be taken against Israel. I thought she walked that tight-rope pretty well and, in doing so, showcased a quality of leadership Trump, IMO, is not capable of displaying on his best days.
Here's a clip of that portion of her speech, if you haven't seen it already: https://youtu.be/oogNVOqnChc
I mean at least for now he seems to have followed up on that particular promise.
Fucking idiots will be the first in the camps here
