Don't worry, I'm sure you'll be privileged and safe
Don't worry, I'm sure you'll be privileged and safe
741 comments
-
On one hand, you have people who are mostly comfortable with letting Palestinians die. On the other, people who openly talk about nuking them.
You have a group of people who may be willing to throw minorities under the bus. And you have another group that is waiting for the opportunity to do so and make it law.
Both choices are terrible, I agree, but there is one that is a clear better over the other. It sucks, but you have to accept that it's the way it is for now and you are not going to pull some third party out of your ass. That is going to have to wait for now. You have to make a decision between the lesser of two evils.
I'm counting on you, Americans. As a trans woman from a European country which political climate is heavily influenced by yours, I can quite confidently say that my rights are in your hands.
Quite frankly, I can't think of a more terrifying thought, but it is what it is.
Don't fuck this up. Please.
-
I know as Americans we consider ourselves the center of the universe but this is one of those things that warrant it.
With Trump's last win we saw Argentina, Belarus, Brazil, Philippines, Australia, and Italy (just naming a few) in power crazy nut jobs. Attacking your community, immigrants, and the poor bc the US had someone spouting shit daily and being racist/anti immigrant was openly supported. It is like a virus, it spreads.
I hope we crush is attempt to be president again but you never know. We need the young people and millennials to vote. It's hard though.
Stay safe and I hope we have a bright future to look forward too.
-
I know as Americans we consider ourselves the center of the universe but this is one of those things that warrant it.
With Trump’s last win we saw Argentina, Belarus, Brazil, Philippines, Australia, and Italy (just naming a few) in power crazy nut jobs.
If you argument is that US presidents set global trends than see exhibit a) Palestinians for the future of how the U.S. and other western countries will treat their citizens and how institutional power will utterly deny it the entire time.
If Biden does not stop this genocide now a new era of violence is being normalized and in conjunction with climate change destroying food security and access to clean water it is going to be very very dark.
If Biden does not budge on Palestine even though there is a strong and clear signal from the American people to do so than we have already lost and people upset at me for not not voting for Biden (if he continues to refuse to budge) are yelling into the void.
-
-
the american votership is very emotional. they don't think about the future. they vote how we feel right now.
hence why we are like this. biden will lose if the is a economic downturn, for example.
-
No matter who wins this November, Palestinians are still going to suffer from this genocide, because neither side is going to stop Israel. It’s not going to be better or worse with Trump, because those people are still going to be dead, and the only difference is how long they have to suffer before they die. Arguing over which death is more humane is shockingly immoral of us.
As Americans, we don’t get to absolve ourselves from that guilt by voting for Biden. We’re directly responsible for allowing our nation to come to the point where this is our only choices. Israel may be dropping the bombs, but it’s America that’s killing them. We’re voting for the lesser evil, but evil is still evil, it’s all the same, and you and I, and every other American, are guilty as hell for it. We’re all mass murderers, and we’re all sleeping soundly at night.
Because we voted for the lesser evil.
-
yeah and? so what?
should i vote for the greater evil?
if kill 20 people, i might as well kill 2000 right, what's really the difference?
-
that's... not how it works. your vote is not an endorsement. plenty of people will openly protest against support of Israel while voting for Biden. you can actually break it down to pragmatic logic instead of the entirely incorrect broad strokes that you have done.
also your take smells like bot farm propaganda.
-
Nah. I voted for the lesser evil my whole life and the DNC decided they get to decide the president rather than the people.
Burn it all
-
that's nice if you actually burn anything. if you just don't vote then you're just going to get stomped by fascists. either you actually commit to that level of action or you get rolled by those that do.
that's just an empty welcome to the fascists of it's not backed by meaningful planned action. the only way what you said will work is of you're ready to fucking go the second trump wins. he's not leaving otherwise. so either you're in a militia or you're pathetic and part of the problem.
-
If you want to burn it all, don't be surprised if you end up burning down with it.
-
Burn it all
lmao
I guess it's nice when you lot go mask off.
-
DNC decided they get to decide the president rather than the people
I'm sorry which side of that debate says we should have counted donations instead of the actual votes?
All but outright saying "only the bougie white kids should count at the polls!" and yet somehow the DNC are the ones who are the threats to democracy and subverting the will of the people because they checks notes counted the ballots cast for all the candidates in the race.
Just about figures that the "voting bad!" screechers think that voting in the primary is somehow putting the fix in.
-
So you're gonna sulk. Cool
-
As a trans person in America, shut the fuck up 😀
-
Hey, if you'd rather have the Republicans open fascists in power, you do you. I question your survival instincts, but still. I just hope you're just a tiny vocal minority, otherwise we might be all fucked. Or, if you're not a vocal minority... well, I hope you're right and I'm wrong.
We'll see I guess.
-
Assertion: You live in an entrenched two party system.
Scenario: Only concerning ourselves with voting, which party do you vote for?
I bring this up as a person in America who has beliefs that do not fit into either of the two parties. Some of my preferred policies are backed by one party, some are backed by the other, some are backed by neither.
I take action beyond voting like working to switch the voting system to approval voting, but I'm going to limit the discussion to voting because that's the bare minimum everyone should do and your vote won't be contextualized by the candidates, it will look identical to all the other votes.
-
-
Both choices are terrible, I agree, but there is one that is a clear better over the other.
One wants you to boil alive slowly and the other wants to dismember you with a chain saw.
We need to vote for the boiler and hope we can convince him not to turn up the heat again.
But also, if we're in bright red or blue states voting has no impact on the end result. It's just a way to wash our hands of the guilt of supporting the other guy.
As a trans woman from a European country which political climate is heavily influenced by yours, I can quite confidently say that my rights are in your hands.
That's crazy, because I assumed you could also vote and that voting was the only real solution.
Are American votes now the only votes that matter?
-
One wants you to boil alive slowly and the other wants to dismember you with a chain saw.
No.
One is consisting of unimaginative and incompetent people, and people that want to do things but cannot due to the another group.
The other group is consisting of outright vile people that get off of other people's suffering, religious fanatics that need some "noble lies" about things like trans people otherwise "they'll throw away eternal happiness of the afterlife for the temporary happiness of this life", and "good willing conservatives" that are fooled by the meaning of the word and think "even if all this turns out to be real hatred, the next government can just unlegislate the law".
We had 8 years of the former in Hungary. The latter convinced enough "good willing conservatives" to vote for them. We no longer can "unvote" them, for another government to "unlegislate" horrible laws, and no government will unsteal money stolen by Fidesz oligarchs, unexpel kids from high school because Fidesz lowered the education age, and undo the countless other harm caused by them.
I don't think a "world wide worker's revolution" is coming. If it's coming, it'll be in current China style, and I got enough of mediocre dictators wanting to form society to their liking. If it will be somehow good, it still can't undo the harms of the current system. And if the rise of Nazism didn't lead to the second coming of Rosa Luxemburg, I doubt the current rise of fascism will lead to anything like that, and leftist movements can be easily crushed by a police state in their cradles. Hell, all they need is widespread alcoholism and overwork, like in Hungary where they weaponize doomerism.
-
-
I’m voting for the lesser of the two evils, which is Blue, in yet another fucked up election. Read your damn history, the US politicians, Blue and Red, always give Israel a blank check for weapons to continue the family blood feud over lots of dried up rocks. Do your civil duty and vote.
-
If everyone who says that gets more active at the local level, we have four years to make the choices different next time around.
-
People generally don't like actually participating in democracy. And fuck, who can blame them? The essential feature of changing policy in a democratic polity is the hard, arduous, thankless fucking task of fighting an apathetic or actively hostile majority. You don't get to be a hero. You don't get recognition. You may not even see any change at all from your own, personal efforts, sometimes not even locally. Success is measured on the scale of decades. It's fucking miserable. There's no sudden wave of support to ride to victory, there's no cheering crowds showing your opposition how utterly defeated and isolated they are, like you once were; there's no moment of vindication. It's nothing but struggle, toil, and tedium.
Yet, that is how societies change.
-
Yeah, but that requires doing more than just doom posting, and we can't have that now can we? /s
So many of the things people bitch about could be lessened (not necessarily resolved, but ffs, perfect is the enemy of good) by getting involved locally and trying to make things better for themselves and their neighbors. Fuck, even working on 3rd party support locally while stemming the bleeding nationally until there's real ground level support would be better, but I guess we gotta tilt at windmills nationally and ignore the local level to get shut done......
-
-
always give Israel a blank check for weapons
This is not necessarily true right now. Biden has put conditions on arms use, he has been slow walking arms shipments and now has placed a pause on them, however Israel needs to be supported to avoid major wars breaking out in the Mideast. Unfortunately Biden cannot control Netanyahu any more than he can control the orange mobster - both are dangerously deranged.
-
however Israel needs to be supported to avoid major wars breaking out in the Mideast.
I don't think this is true, except insofar as "Waving a stick at Iran every now and again" is concerned. And honestly, we do that bare minimum of discouraging aggression for a lot of countries, not all of whom we would consider allies or countries we support.
-
-
-
Keep protesting from now to the future until we get shit done, but vote Biden regardless. We're stuck with this choice cause this is the only least worst option we have, voting red is just shooting oneself in the foot. Wish Bernie was still an option.
Also fuck the electoral college.
-
Not voting because bOtH pArTiEs ArE tHe SaMe, even after the goddamned 2016-21 dark ages, is the leftist version of anti-vaxx anti-mask. Too many people seem to be equally lazy plus self-centered equals stupid, in all directions.
Whether it's about putting a piece of cloth on your face or voting, they're special; above it all; they know what the truth is, and we're the dumb ones for not seeing it, we're the dumb ones for doing something, for choosing a path of effort/inconvenience/civic duty instead of inaction. And we are the mindless herd to them.
EDIT: Then you tell them that republican and russian troll farms are flooding their discussions, concern trolling about genocide while russia itself is invading Ukraine with genocidal intentions, with the explicit intent to get them to not vote because they are manipulable in bad faith, and do they seem to care?
-
Tbf there is also a certain extent of legit lefty anti-mask anti-vaxx sentiment,
Over there it's less about pseudo-science (at least until you get the california crunchy moms who believe in crystal healing) and more about how the US medical establishment can't be trusted for one reason or the other.
-
"Everyone who doesn't agree with me 100% is either an idiot, lazy, self-centered, and/or the enemy," the true mark of a thriving democracy. Democrats can pat themselves on the back with that one all the way to a loss at the polls, then bust out their best surprised Pikachu face and blame leftists again when it turns out their unpopular platform of saying, "Well, we're marginally less shit than the other guy!" doesn't transform into a win.
I know this is uncharted territory, but perhaps Democrats could try being a bit less shit, rather than constantly punching left? Zero pressure on Democrat candidates to not be absolute trash, and then you have the gall to act surprised that people aren't tripping over themselves to back them when their platform is less than inspiring. If you guys put half the effort into whipping your preferred candidates into shape rather than brow beating anyone who dares criticize them, your bullshit hand wringing about evil, stupid leftists would be entirely unnecessary.
-
-
Voting for someone who is less bad is harm reduction. You can do harm reduction, while loudly proclaiming that it fucking sucks there’s not a better option, and working to provide better options.
I hate Biden. But I hate (and fear) the prospect of a second trump term more.
-
Yeah, I'm all for massive reform, and I'm definitely no fan of Biden, but compared to Trump he's the only option. It a choice between having a broken country, or not having a country at all. (To not even mention the issues regarding the climate, which clearly Trump's the worst choice for.)
-
It's like they're completely oblivious as to why Hillary Clinton lost in the first place.
It's because THIS SHIT points around frantically ISN'T WORKING.
-
"Are we wrong? No, it must be the voters who are wrong, they just don't realize how great we are!"
Clinton lost because she was yet another unappealing candidate in a long line of more of the same. The Democrats would rather let Republicans destroy the country than engage in the tiniest bit of reflection and admit that their platform is unpopular and needs to change drastically.
-
That and rural voters won't choose a woman
-
-
*way more
Trump is an existential crisis for enlightenment democracy. I know there are a lot of people on here who take pleasure in this, because they are privileged enough to feel safe. But there are also many more who will be harmed by American fascism far beyond what the simpleminded cynics fear.
-
While there are plenty of people that can keep the big picture in mind, unfortunately there are a critical mass of people who will get disenfranchised.
2016 was just 2 elections ago, and we seem to have forgotten the lessons from it. And Biden barely won in 2020.
Don't let Trump win again because your loud dissent disenfranchised too many voters because the most important reason to vote blue was lost in the weeds - to literally fight fascists from completely taking the country over.
This is not hyperbole. This is literally their goal, and they say it all the fucking time.
-
i really do hate that this is the way things are, and that people seem to cope with this, but frankly, as long as someone is capable of understanding how fucking shit everything is first, before having an opinion on who is good/bad, is honestly IMO, going to lead to a better outcome.
I hate when people are like "yeah but it's the least worst person" and people who are also like "yeah im never fucking voting for them because they suck mildly bad lmao" Shit sucks, there is only one way to cause change. It's really not that complicated.
-
-
I'm the person in another country worried about how even the meager progress towards tackling climate change will be enthusiastically and vigorously reversed out of spite thoroughly double fucking the rest of us for good.
-
The lion's share of progress isn't happening in the West. It's reforms happening in East Asia and new cleaner development happening in Latin America and Africa.
Western states are hobbled by legacy infrastructure they refuse to replace. What progress they have made has been driven by cheap imports. And they're going to halt those imports to protect legacy industry
-
Can western states start stealing eastern IP and marketing it now?
If the tables have turned, it makes sense if genocide Joe is genociding those Palestinians, China finished with their uighur 'issue' and the poor destitute west only knows how to copy moves from the 'big glorious leaders' in the east 🤡
-
-
-
I don't mean to be paranoid but sometimes I think about who benefits most from conflict and division on the American Left, and whether they have the resources to artificially sow mistrust of reliable news and advance an agenda that benefits Russian interests.
-
Some of the nutjobs on Lemmy are actively hoping for another four years of Donald. A collapsing America helps China gain territory.
Not sure how they are so dimwitted as to want openly racist fascists heading up such a large nuclear arsenal. But dimwitted as they are, a good portion of the bothsidesing is deliberate.
-
The times these users seem to operate in is suspicious
-
A collapsing America helps China gain territory.
This seems to be a recurring fear among pro-Biden Democrats.
No real regard for Palestine or pregnant women in Texas or Trans people anywhere, but this absolute terror over Chinese economic influence spreading across East Asia.
It feels like the Dem policy is just "We need Biden to fight more of the correct wars America needs to be in".
And that's what I'm afraid a second Biden term will bring.
-
Whoever it is is probably paying a lot of these people who "care deeply about Palestinians"
-
-
I'm not American, but I am fascinated by the cognitive dissonance it takes for these People who claim to be progressive to chart a path that clearly puts Trump in office while claiming they're fighting for the very people that Trump has already banned from being in America.
Trump would be bad for America and for the world, but a part of me wants to see y'all elect him again, just out of curiosity. The stupidity knows no bounds.
-
Seriously. Pro-Palestinian so they'll let Trump win? Do they think a man who instituted a "Muslim ban" (Trump's own words) is going to side with them?
-
The "muslim ban" policy first started with Obama.
-
I mean I think most of the time the people who are doing that aren't necessarily progressives. They're just people who cared enough to vote before against trump but now just feel like nothing has really happened. Sure things haven't gotten worse but they also haven't really gotten better. So they checkout of politics all together cause what's the point in voting if nothing really changes.
-
Again, I'm not American, but I can't believe that any American could claim that. Nothing has changed from Trump to Biden. It's absolutely obvious there's been a wholesale change in how America is viewed globally. There's been a change in the economy for the better and the American president isn't in the news for saying something foolish everyday.
It's crazy that people would say nothing has changed.
-
-
"The charting of a path that clearly puts Trump in office" is the accusation from those opposing progressive or leftist policy.
The argument from progressives is "Support of Israel's genocide is unconscionable and unpopular amongst the American electorate so continuing that support and ignoring the electorate should not be acceptable."
-
And they're fucking morons for trying to push that line.
"I don't like Biden not being tough enough on Genocide, that's why I'm choosing the path that makes even more genocide more likely!"
That is not the position of someone who takes their own causes as seriously as those causes deserve, that is the position of a whiny privileged little shitstain looking for any reason they can find why they're actually morally superior to you for not being able to be assed to stand in a line for a day at most and check some boxes.
-
I'll give my two cents on why I won't for Biden. Simply put, foreign policy doesn't matter the president. So for me its about punishing an incumbent to possibly set precedence moving forward that supporting genocide won't get you re-elected.
-
Bro, that's not two cents, that's pocket lint and an old cough drop. Your entire statement is a contradiction.
-
But Trump also supports this genocide so what the fuck lesson are they supposed to learn when he wins
-
because it makes them feel good, and apparently that grants them immunity somehow.
For the record, i'm not voting, fuck this shit. Yall can fuck around and find out, i'll just be finding out.
-
I've manned voting booths in my home country and whilst lots of blank votes are a message, people simply not coming to vote is no message at all since those who feel disenfranchised and do not go vote look exactly the same from the other side as those who are lazy and do not go vote.
A blank says that a politically aware person who cares did not find any of the choices available appealing (implying that the vote is there for the taking if the right person is on the ballot), whilst not voting just says "Did not appear, probably can't be arsed to go vote".
If you're really pissed off at the system, go there and cast a blank vote, which is the clearest "none of the above" message you can put on a vote. (Writting "none of the above" on the ballot if it's a paper one won't really pass that message because that just makes it an invalid vote, so maybe the one person counting votes that sees it gets it but all that the information that gets passed further is +1 invalid vote).
-
-
Yeah but the world will know about their adorable little "protest vote" and how Biden just didn't "do it" for them.
That will be our nation's epitaph.
-
Really feels like Israel is trying to do the old Russian misinformation game even on Lemmy these days to try and suppress blue votes on a single wedge issue because they know it’s the only way to get Trump elected and get more guns and bombs than they’re already getting, and they wouldn’t get pushback at all for Rafah or any warnings of any sort, just a blank check for wanton genocide.
Like I don’t like what’s happening in Palestine, but I don’t want to make it worse by pretending a non vote would somehow help them. Helping them would be ensuring that the party least likely to enable Israel the most is elected. That’s Joe Biden. Some people have ridiculous nicknames for him but my god wait until they make this look like restraint if Trump gets elected. Palestine would cease to exist almost immediately and Israel will de facto annex it, like Russia is trying to do in Ukraine.
So really you can vote to minimize the pain and suffering of Palestinians or you can not vote to minimize the pain and suffering of Palestinians. Personally I’m gonna vote to minimize the pain and suffering of Palestinians, and also support the environment (again not to the degree I desire), and support abortion access, and trans rights, and taxes for the wealthiest Americans, and, the list goes on, but yeah, I’m gonna vote for Joe Biden.
-
Yeah people forget that Israel is very advanced in intelligence and cyber warfare. And Russia already showed them how easy it is to manipulate us.
-
I swear to god, the orange parasite could shit in their living room carpet, and so many idiots would still declare through lazy, stupid inaction that bOtH pArTiEs ArE tHe SaMe LoL aMiRiTe.
What you say is a reasoned, nuanced argument. Too many people are beyond the reach of reason and nuance.
-
You know what? I'm starting to think that "psyop campaigns" are the Boogeyman of the Democrats the same way that Trans and Drag queens are used by the Republicans.
An easy scapegoat to wave away complaints about other issues.
Cause now Israel is on here complaining about the lack of change? I get they are absolutely running a disinformation campaign about themselves and the war but you think they are complaining about Biden?
I don't disbelieve that it's happening. There is always someone doing exactly what you would hope no human would ever do, but when it's every single complaint that can be turned into a simple scare crow of a villain then it feels disingenuous
-
It's likely to be a dual effort with Russian psyops. There was a hugely noticeable absence of the kind of bad faith conservative in sheep's clothing arguments in the weeks after the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Seems like their psyops were knocked offline by the abruptness of the war, and they had to get back up and running and aligned on narrative.
While there is a significant difference for Palestine between blue and red, there's a massive difference for Ukraine support.
I think it's more likely that the majority of our "both sides" and "genocide joe" assholes are the product of Russian psyops. Maybe not the agents directly, but those that drink the coolaid.
-
I think it’s more likely that the majority of our “both sides” and “genocide joe” assholes are the product of Russian psyops. Maybe not the agents directly, but those that drink the coolaid.
Useful idiots by the dozen, parroting the lines of a theocratic genocidaire state and an imperialist oligarchy.
-
-
-
Bibi wants Biden to lose so he can show the world what actual genocide looks like.
-
I just love the white self proclaimed leftists who insist that they're the only ones in all of America who truly take the threat of fascism as seriously as needed and yet their advocated course ot action is to let the fascists get everything they want but blame it on the people actually trying to stop them for not catering enough to white self proclaimed leftist interests.
They'll still be singing the tune of how one day the DNC establishment will totally learn their lesson this time if we protest vote at the election the Christnats are holding as a sham, singing it all the way as they get frog marched to the gas chambers ahead of everyone they let the fascists kill first.
-
It's so intensely frustrating. Like, do they think I WANT to be here fighting with people to my left? Fuck, I'm at the point in my life where I don't even want to be fighting online, period. But I also don't want the accepted orthodoxy on here to end up being "ACCELERATIONISM IS GOOD ACTUALLY" by letting this dogshite go unchallenged or letting people asspat the kind of useful idiots who parrot it.
-
I just love the liberal plan of "the only way to stop fascism is by voting for blue fascism and patting them on the ass sating 'good job' as they get rewarded AGAIN and AGAIN for marching further right."
Y'all don't even TALK about Republicans. All any of you do is piss on anybody left of mid right biden then shocked Pikachu when you don't get our vote. If leftists are the cause of every dem loss as y'all absolutely can't shut the fuck up about maybe you should stop framing us as bigger enemies than Republicans and actually move your policies leftward instead of sprinting right then getting mad that people think you're too far right.
Not to mention democrats are pulling every fascist trick in the book against the left, but you're blue so its OK? Fuck off. Democrats are just blue MAGA and the only option to fix this country is to burn it down.
-
-
Not to sound like a Twitter wokescold or whatever, but Shaun does this all the time. A cishet white guy from England who won't be affected in any way by the outcome of the U.S. election, yet constantly tweets and retweets about how the Democrats and Republicans are totally equally bad and voting makes no difference.
But when we look at what Republicans are doing and saying like...
- Trump saying he'll be a "dictator for one day"
- His lawyers arguing that a president killing an opponent should be considered an official act protected by law
- The potential Republican vice-candidate bragging about shooting a puppy and other farm animals
- Reports that DeSantis enjoyed torturing people at Guantanamo
- Multiple Republican politicians and pundits calling for the eradication of trans people
I think this take doesn't hold up. It's no coincidence that many of the people with this mentality are also the ones who'll be minimally affected by a Republican presidency, if at all.
-
Who is Shaun
-
Skull boy
-
-
I agree with everything here except giving air to an annoying ass term like "wokescold". That's just something invented to try and reverse (completely justified usually) shaming
-
The fact that it's even close is an indictment of the American people.
-
Yeah.
-
-
Yeah... Pretty much this, only worse.
-
My biggest concern right now is the Presidential Immunity ruling that the SC won't announce until they know who will be getting it.
That's bullshit. Biden must win so they can shoot the idea down. If Trump wins, they WILL crown him dictator, and Democracy is lost.
-
Nah, they have to put out all decisions argued by summer recess or end of term. Last day to file decisions for cases already argued but not decided sf June 26, 2024. You'll have a decision on or before that day.
-
I'd love for this to be true, but I have questions.
I'm sure the SC knows this, so how could they announce that they won't have a decision until after the election yet I'm not hearing anyone else pointing out the deadline and calling them liars?
My wife and I had a "Holy shit, this could be it" moment while discussing it the other day and we'd both love a reason to sleep better at night.
-
-
-
Disclaimer: I'm Australian so I only have a relatively small stake in this, and I'm pretty solidly in the do vote camp.
All that said, I find myself really empathizing with the frustrations I've seen expressed by those who won't vote. Again I don't agree with not voting, I just see there is humanity behind it. It makes me weep that you need to fight about this in the first place, we have preferential voting so it's not an issue at all here, you can vote independent and still prevent the right from taking office.
I hope you all make it through this safely and that you have no regrets in the end. Please look after each other, solidarity is our strength.
-
Cishet white man me livin my life after trump gets elected
-
I'm white, cis-, het, middle aged, have a lot of guns, and I am far more versed (ha!) in the bible than almost any evangelical. I can pass if I have to. I have a lot of friends that can't, and they're going to be truly fucked if Trump wins.
-
-
Hey but the protest voter is morally clean while anyone else sUpPoRtS gEnOcIdE
-
Forever one election away from fascism. The real single-issue voting.
-
Yes, the issue of never having a say on issues again is rather important. Sorry that life involves a constant struggle, and we don't get to kick up our feet and relax once we've earned enough 'democracy points'.
There are always shit people, and there are always opportunists, and if you don't fight them, they take everything they can.
-
yep
-
-
Oh come on. It won't always be one election away from fascism. Because eventually second worst loses.
-
We have the most incarcerated population in the world, we are in a fascist country and those pretending that Biden is doing anything to prevent fascism are literally just dumb as hell.
-
-
And they kept on voting blue and both parties kept on getting more reactionary and moving the center to the right ad infimum...
-
Yes, because our only two choices are to vote and not vote. Once we vote we can't protest, spread information, build dual power structures, try to create progressive candidates, or do any other organizational efforts to try to shift the available candidates.
You get only one progressive action every 4 years.
/s
-
-
Protest voters downvoting this: YoU cAn’T bLaMe Me FoR tRuMp!
Fucking morons, the lot of them.
-
Well you choose to blame the people instead of blaming Biden who can end all of this today and end up winning in a landslide.
The fact that Biden chooses to risk a Trump administration over ending a genocide should be very concerning to the average voter, but Americans of course rather blame the people than their elites. Same shit like with anti Union stances.
-
Just because I’m blaming protest voters doesn’t mean I’m not blaming Biden. His hands are in no way clean here and his handling of the situation in the Middle East has been horrendous.
All that being said though, I choose realism over idealism. We have a FPTP electoral system in the US. This inevitably results in a binary choice. Come Election Day, every voter is either choosing to enable Biden’s neoliberalism or Trump’s fascism. It is that simple.
I’m making the choice to knowingly be a neoliberal enabler even if I would prefer something else. The reason being is that any other choice makes me a fascist enabler, same for 100% of protest voters whether or not they choose to bury their heads in the sand about it. As such, I’m entitled to think that they are in fact fucking morons, and plenty of people agree with me.
-
Well you choose to blame the people instead of blaming Biden who can end all of this today and end up winning in a landslide.
I don't know how this delusion became so widespread, but the idea that withdrawing support from Israel is a consensus position even just within the Democratic Party is so utterly divorced from reality that it baffles me.
Twelve downvotes inside of two minutes? Lmao.
-
-
No no, if only we were a little nicer to them, THEN they would be our shining heroes who rode in to save us!
-
-
Shit meme bro!
-
I've had this conversation with my SO. Technically speaking the best move for me as a white male would be to support Trump. Instead I vote for Democrats hoping for positive changes for all people. For most of my life I've thought I was "far left" for American standards, but since I've joined portions of Lemmy and Reddit you'd think I was a fucking Republican.
Certain portions of the left would rather spit in their own eye for unrealistic principles, even if it means that a worse alternative is the result.
-
Technically speaking the best move for me as a white male would be to support Trump.
That's a bold assumption.
-
How would it be beneficial? We are running head first in an existential crisis, where Trump and the GOP want to put a full stop on everything that tries to fight that. And yes no country with a significant emissions footprint is doing enough, far from it. I'm convinced that we'll live in more or less dystopian scenarios within the next 20-30 years. And if I didn't have children I wished these days would come really soon, so all those ignorant MFers would have to live in it.
-
-
Social media in general loves controvery. So they push radical ideas, as they create conversation, clicks and other interactions, which means more time on the site. That then allows for more ad money.
The truth is most Americans are not that radical, due to just not caring too much about politics. They just want things to keep going as they are.
The other part of it is none Americans on social media. For Europeans for example Biden looks center right for the most part. Then again Europeans have options further left.
-
The other part of it is none Americans on social media. For Europeans for example Biden looks center right for the most part. Then again Europeans have options further left.
My biggest beef with Europeans is the military spending discussion and immigration. Yeah, it would be nice if we cut military spending and used it to better our own society. Yeah, it would be nice to move to a country with affordable housing, public transportation, great education systems, etc.
Norway, Finland, and Belgium have great policies for their citizens, but combined have less than a million troops (active and reserve), spend less than $20 billion each year, and only let in 254k immigrant per year (50k Finland, 39k Norway, and 165k Belgium). In contrast the US has 2.6 million immigrants per year.
It's like NIMBY, pull the ladder up behind you, and leopards ate my face all had a threesome.
-
-
-
Well, meme, not just not voting, but actively using their energy to attack their allies and help fascism spread.
To my disappointment, all I see from the self-appointed "real left" are people stubbornly trying to get US members to stop voting for the Democratic Party. And dunking on liberals ten times before they say one bad thing about reactionaries.
There could be so much good tankies could do, but instead, they aid the fascists. They treat the ongoing genocide as a just a convenient issue to drive a wedge between progressives. When China was committing genocide on the Uyghurs, tankie spaces on Reddit were talking it down and passing around Chinese propaganda memes. The ongoing genocide by Russia in Ukraine seems fine, too, if not even largely met with approval.
I hope some of those pulled into this web and led astray will yet wake up and use their energies for something positive. For example, there are already states that have adopted ranked choice voting, which will let everyone vote, even for a fringe party, without risking a fascist takeover. It will show, black on white, how many progressives there are that would want politicians to move left. If it was to kick off, it is almost guaranteed to topple the current status quo.
-
We don't get to vote for a target, just a direction in which to ever so slightly turn. When far off course, every choice will continue to lead in the wrong direction, but over time those small corrections will add up. Hopefully.
-
Lib king with the fearmongering special.
Lmao at Palestinians feeling less safe. They are getting carpet bombed right now.
-
"Fear mongering" to state simple, obvious facts
-
For anybody still missing the facts of this upcoming shit show:
-
-
We all have our own problems, man. Both can be true
-
-
If we are to believe Biden at his word that Trump will attempt a fascist coup regardless of election results, why is he spending his time banning tik tok instead of truth social?
-
Nah, I trust trump's own words about what another trumpian term would be like, has remarkably little to do with the other one.
-
- Because there is a legitimate security reason to ban Tiktok, while banning Truth Social for supporting a fascist would run up against the 1st Amendment.
- Because there's rare bipartisan agreement on banning Tiktok due to the security risks presented by the Chinese government.
- Because the Tiktok ban is unrelated to the election. As evidenced by the normally hyperpartisan GOP being onboard.
- Because Biden is a democrat, small d, and believes that elections should be largely free and fair, and silencing the opposition is neither. Yes, including if the opposition consists of fascists.
- Because that would feed into the right-wing narrative of "The DEMS are OPPRESSING US" which can sway low-information voters with singular high-profile incidents repeated loudly and often.
-
Get real man. Tik Tok was never about China. It was always about silencing support for Palestinians. This is known.
Why do I feel like you're the type to argue that fascist rhetoric is protected under the 1st amendment? If you think fascists deserve a platform, you are the bad guy. This is liberalism.
-
-
I'm all for the protest and the outrage over a genocide, it is all warranted. Biden is proving to be just as blood thirst as most of the politicians that fill D. C.. Come November I will still vote for him. The reason I will vote is due to Trump's in a different category of POS status.
Voting is very important but we focus too much on the presidential and we never look at local and state. We need to reevaluate what we are trying to accomplish. I believe the president position has ran it's course and needs to be done away. I believe we need a complete redesign of our federal and even state systems. Popular votes, rank choice, and possible EU redesign with states breaking up might be options.
Nothing should be off the table due to traditions and "what would the founding fathers think" arguments. 200 years ago we believed spirits caused mental health issues and cocaine helped soothe babies. Not smart by today's standards.
-
We support Biden because he is willing to be swayed by changing public opinion. Trump just doubles down on things people don't support when confronted. That Trump voters see the left disagreeing with Biden and think "Oh, that means they won't support him" just shows that they believe politicians views are fixed and unchanging.
-
Extra panel: Americans with all their guns not using them, yet acting as if shits serious.
-
Americans own guns because of a mixture of toxic masculinity and a former 'frontier' culture that was reliant on (and permissive of) hunting.
The idea that private gun ownership is going to overthrow an otherwise-functioning government is a delusion peddled by the gun industry.
If things come down to it, it's not going to be whether or not Billy Bob and his friends have an AR-15 in their closets that's going to decide how things go.
-
Why don't you come fix it for us?
Oh, so you don't want to get mowed down by tanks either? Why would you support genocide bro?!
-
-
Remember folks: there are no ramifications of policy in a functioning democracy.
Just vote once every four years for Party.
/s
-
Yes, let's keep punching left as Democrats lose even the moderates they exclusively cater to now.
Instead, Mr. Biden’s losses are concentrated among moderate and conservative Democratic-leaning voters, who nonetheless think that the system needs major changes or to be torn down altogether. Mr. Trump wins just 2 percent of Mr. Biden’s “very liberal” 2020 voters who think the system at least needs major changes, compared with 16 percent of those who are moderate or conservative. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/13/us/politics/biden-trump-battleground-poll.html
-
"Democrats are losing the moderates and conservative votes that were an unfortunately essential part of the coalition - time to cater to the much smaller left-wing of the party!"
Does that really make strategic sense to you?
-
-
Ugh, there is no room for subtlety in the modern meme. Sorry everyone, if you have a message to tell it has to have a punch line. That's the rules.
-
If Biden doesn't win, it's 100% on him and the DNC for running shit politicians. Fuck you for blaming people refusing to vote for Genocide Joe.
Again: fuck you
-
Society only works if we all share the burden of not letting it slide into shit. Giving up is easy.
-
-
Imran Khan looking at this meme from jail after he was couped under Biden's term and not Trump's
-
Surely punching left will convince leftists that siding with backstabbing liberals will work this time!
I'm likely voting for Biden, for what it's worth, but wouldn't your goals be better served by trying to work with leftists and unalienate them from the electoral process, rather than opting for the shame route? The entire reason why Biden is losing leftist votes is because liberals have been punching left, rather than trying to build a coalition, thus alienating leftist voices.
-
Surely punching left will convince leftists that siding with backstabbing liberals will work this time!
lmao
I’m likely voting for Biden, for what it’s worth, but wouldn’t your goals be better served by trying to work with leftists and unalienate them from the electoral provess, rather than opting for the shame route? The entire reason why Biden is losing leftist votes is because liberals have been punching left, rather than trying to build a coalition, thus alienating leftist voices.
Yep, sure, it's definitely been the mean ol' shitlibs- I mean, liberals, who are always punching left. Those poor wittle folk who say "I see literally no difference between liberals and fascists!" just need a nice pat on the head and are definitely willing and eager to work with liberals, if only someone said a few nice words to them.
Sorry for not affording them the respect that fascist enablers apparently 'deserve'.
-
-
Well, at least I don't need to worry about neither of those. There is nobody worse than Putin.
-
Vote or don't but organize internationally
I'm not from the US, and no, I'm not feeling safer with liberal or not. Imperialism is pretty much the same. I don't know what is worse, but I'm sure that in both cases, it would worthless if you have not a strong anti-imperialist and organized movement inside an international organization.
For example, my organization is in the ICL, like the IWW.
-
"Vote for me, or else"
Lmao no. Threatening us with authoritarian rule isn't going to work. It didn't stop us from doing drugs, and it's not going to force us to vote for you.
-
It's not a threat, it's a reality here in the south. You can clutch your accelerationist pearls if you want, but that just leads to LGBT rights going back to the 50's. I have a friend that's an LGBT teacher in Florida, she literally committed a felony by acknowledging the existence of LGBT people.
If there's a revolution in the US it's going to be y'allqueda instituting a theocracy, not the communist revolution. The only hope is shifting the Overton window back to the left over time. The current crop of Republicans have to be rendered entirely unelectable.
-
So that happened with Biden in the White House? Or Trump? Was there a landmark DOJ case stopping the southern states that I missed?
-
-
Threatening us with authoritarian rule isn’t going to work.
Cool, please enjoy yourself while minorities are murdered. Wouldn't want you to feel 'threatened' or anything by the consequences of action or inaction.
-
So the same shit that's already happening?
-
Keep speaking for minorities, I'm sure it'll endear you to them. Meanwhile, Biden has absolutely no support amongst the non-white, first generation immigrant side of my family that liberals on Lemmy claim to be defending and looking out for. I'm sure they really appreciate more white people telling everyone else what they think.
-
-
You're an idiot
Why do you want trump in the white House? I don't get it, what so you like about that horror show?
-
I don't want Trump. I didn't even say I didn't want Biden. I just said threatening people is not how you get voters.
-
-
-
But bIdEn dOeS nOtHiNg?!
-
You have no choice but to vote for the genocide enabler. It is the only way to save "democracy." The type of democracy where you have to support the abhorrent to keep out the truly monstrous and if you say you won't, a bunch of self important liberals will pretend it's all your fault and not the parade of geriatric ghouls the party has been nominating
-
” The type of democracy where you have to support the abhorrent to keep out the truly monstrous and if you say you won’t, a bunch of self important liberals will pretend it’s all your fault and not the parade of geriatric ghouls the party has been nominating
Yes, isn't it terrible when democracy doesn't agree with you? The only TRULY democratic society is one where those pesky proles listen to those who know what's good for them, right?
-
-
The fact you believe many leftists have substantial interest in electoral politics at all tells me exactly how many you actually know.
-
You're not wrong. Most "leftists" in stable, comfortable countries are notoriously useless at effecting actual change. You can get them to show up to a "feel good" protest, you can get them to sign petitions -- but that's about it. Between the infighting, disorganization, defeatism, complete lack of pragmatism, and just plain laziness they're about as ineffective as can be.
It's frustrating as fuck, especially if you're that sort that's willing to put in actual work for the cause.
-
-
A chunk of this is probably propaganda
Edit: This was supposed to be a reply to another post and messed up. Something to do with seeing this all over the internet.
-
Sick of all these posts throwing guilt on those people sick of an ongoing genocide. What y'all don't realise is at this point where humanity seems.past saving to them, maybe those "people just want to watch the world burn". And they are therefore OK with seeing someone as despicable as Trump win. Just saying that shaming won't get you anywhere in that instance
-
What y’all don’t realise is at this point where humanity seems.past saving, maybe those “people just want to watch the world burn”. And they are therefore OK with seeing someone as despicable as Trump win. Just saying that shaming won’t get you anywhere in that instance
In that case, speaking as someone with multiple suicide attempts under his belt, I can assure them of two things:
- Dying ain't all it's cracked up to be. I wouldn't recommend it.
- There are easier ways to die than trying to take the rest of the world with you in a descent into fascism and genocide.
-
I am pretty sure all these people here pretending to care for Palestine and practically blaming Biden for Israel's actions are right-wing trolls anyway posing as leftists. It's their modus operandi.
-
-
Biden's approval so low that libs are desperately looking for someone to blame 6 months ahead of time
If leftists are so important to the coalition then maybe Biden should have been trying harder to earn their vote
-
Elections in the US are won by single-digit percentage points.
If leftists are 2% of the coalition, and anti-leftists are 20% of the coalition, do you think it's reasonable for the leftists to demand total capitulation to them in exchange for their vote? Do you think that a total capitulation to the leftists, in this case, would result in the coalition then having a net... gain in votes?
Sorry that you're so uncomfortable with the way democracy works.
-
-
Actually Trump was great at delaying the rise of the alt-right in other countries even though tons of money from the likes of the Koch brothers was being thrown at it.
During his presidency Trump really changed the perception of America from "A great nation" to "A large backwards nation", at least here in Europe, which in turn means that people are far less likely to want to emulate it. You will notice, for example, that all those crazy American alt-right fads like the anti-mask and anti-vax manias didn't manage to cross the Atlantic all that well (though some countries in Latin America, such as Brasil which at the time also had a far-right president, did copy some).
Don't get me wrong, Europe is also suffering the consequences of the American Economic Policies that it copied pre-Trump (from Reaganism all the way to how the 2008 Crash was handled) and hence the fall in quality of life and fall in median worker incomes has made the ground fertile for simple ideologies blaming everything on "outsiders", hence the rise of the alt-right, but even it is not at all following the molds of the Trumpist version of it (the closest to it are the Tories in the UK and even they aren't going anti-LGBTA or obcessing about wokishness even though they too have the relentless propaganda of Murdoch's media empire).
Biden's pro-Zionist Genocide posture is just doing the same, only that is mainly amongst the young and more well educated.
-
Yes, people are unsatisfied with Biden for that one reason and only that reason. Nothing else at all.
-
Tbf Genocide is a pretty big issue
-
O it is, I agree with you. But it ain't the only one.
-
-
Doesn't matter why you're dissatisfied with him as long as you know that Trump would be worse on all issues (when he's not focused on trying to expatriate natural born citizens and getting revenge on the justice system for holding him accountable for his crimes.)
-
Trump is worse on all issues. I dont doubt that. Doesn't mean lots of voters are feed up with democrats force feeding us conservative options.
-
-
-
"if you don't vote for the genocide guys then you'll get the genocide guys! (Also they've worked to make it super easy to strip leftist orgs of nonprofit status, works in lockstep to move the goalposts if a third party comes close to inclusion requirements, went to court to legally ensure they can run whoever the fuck they want, among plenty of other things - but our narrative depends exclusively on misinformation. We HAVE to call them single issue voters and claim that anybody not voting for Biden is advocating for not voting. Our real enemies aren't Republicans, its leftists, and the time has come to say the quiet part out loud.)"
-
Don't worry, I'm sure your open hostility towards disengaged leftists will get them to vote again.
Disclaimer: would vote for Biden if I were American.
Edit: Not sure why I thought kicking a hornet's nest would go over well lol.
-
How dare you make a post that doesn't 100% toe the line in the Democratic Party Memes community?!
-
-
Yet, people are always saying we only have 2 choices and don't talking about "wasting my vote". If enough people voted 3rd party, it would no longer be a "3rd party".
741 comments