TikTok will not be sold, Chinese parent ByteDance tells US
TikTok will not be sold, Chinese parent ByteDance tells US
www.bbc.com
TikTok will not be sold, Chinese parent ByteDance tells US
297 comments
-
Only US tech companies can harvest all that data from their products, I mean, customers.
-
I mean let’s be honest, that’s slightly better than US companies plus the Chinese Communist Party being able to do so.
-
I don't know about you, but if I must leak my private data like a sieve to use the internet, I'd much rather that data go to a government that isn't governing me!
-
They still can, they just have to go back to buying that data lmao
-
Everybody Sucks Here
-
It's obviously more of a problem when a government that actually has agency over you harvests your data. If you can't even understand this, then you're truly lost.
-
Not having the choice is slightly worse I'd say.
-
What can China do to you? You don't live there.
-
-
-
Problems with this app go beyond just privacy and bleed into national security.
You as a citizen of your country have an obligation to not freely offer yourself up as an attack vector for cybercriminals all so you could fry your brain with garbage media.
-
I hate America though
-
-
-
If you are an American, you have an obligation to humanity to be a fifth columnist.
-
As if all these other social medias don't have garbage media or propaganda
-
Fuck Amerika's national security; I don't claim this mf country. I don't even think twice about lying about where I'm from when I'm in international circles that ask me what it is. If someone offered me citizenship with them to Yeonmi Park y'all asses, I'd do it in a new york minute.
-
Problems with this app go beyond just privacy and bleed into national security.
Entire world should ban US based apps in this case.
-
-
Here's Bernie Sanders from a year ago talking about how a handful of companies control the news people see, read, and hear. TL:DR - He makes the argument that it's not fake news, that journalists are usually hard-working and honest. He says the problem is the limitation of allowed discussion - what topics make it to the consumer. He says for instance that he's never asked about wealth and income inequality.
I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven't proven able to control. If the issues justifying a potential ban were truly data security or mental health as some argue (not without merit mind you), then the legislation to address those issues would look a lot different and include companies like Meta, Google, Instagram, etc. Those are valid concerns but the new measure is clearly not designed around them.
Finally, we've seen how Trump can tie up the courts for months on end even after all his self-snitching. Thus I very much doubt we'll see any actual action in the 9 months + 3 months grace period laid out for the resolution of the TikTok matter. There are too many constitutional and business law challenges in my (admittedly layman's) reading of expert opinion.
-
I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven't proven able to control
I mean, if this were true, that would mean you wouldn't be able to find similar content on Western platforms. Are you really saying similar content isn't readily available on YouTube? If so, what content?
-
That's a solid criticism and I upvoted. I hadn't thought about YouTube. Anecdotally I've had factual comments about how many kids are killed, what Israeli politicians say, etc. auto-moderated into oblivion on YouTube. But at the same time I get a lot of the facts I use from YouTube (basically never been on TikTok) so it holds water. I also get a lot of info from other sources, but I can't think of something specific I'd get from them that I could never find on YouTube.
In my defense, I'm basing my opinion on why TikTok is particularly targeted on interviews like this one with Ted Cruz. He talks about how TikTok is specifically designed to push messages that are harmful to America, including what he calls pro-Hamas content but I suspect is actually anti-Israeli policy, pro-Palestine content. That is why I would argue there's some evidence of a campaign against TikTok in particular that might skip over YouTube or other major platforms. Perhaps the Western powers feel that YouTube is still acceptably moderated towards their interests whereas TikTok isn't. Perhaps Google is just too influential domestically.
Edit: I found a video I was looking for: Biden talking about passing the TikTok/Israel funding/Ukraine funding package. A bit of language he uses that I think is telling is "it continues America’s leadership in the world and everyone knows it" which could signal US dominance as a motivation and thus TikTok as a target and not US companies.
That doesn't mean your point isn't worth discussion, or that my points aren't opinion. I'm interested to see how it develops. I've based my opinion on the conversations I can find and language used, but I'm open to adjusting my view if evidence prompts that.
-
For one the YouTube algorithm is absolute dog shit compared to TT, which is literally the gold standard at this point.
If you haven't tried, you're seriously missing out. It's legit incredible how good it is. I hardly use it because I prefer long-form content (and don't honestly have much time) but I absolutely can respect what they created
-
Western SM is already in the pocket of the state and any content that goes against their values is suppressed.
Pro-Palestinian content on Tiktok can easily get traction and receive over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of views.
Considering that younger people are not watching regular media news, channels like fox just do not have comparative reach and they aren't buying into the zionist propaganda like previous generations.
There are a lot of content creators who are articulate, succinct and organisation has come out of it. People have created sites & apps that list all corporations and products to boycott because of their support for Israel and it's had an impact.
Sure, TTs algorithm can easily push you down unpleasant rabbit holes but that's the nature of algorithms, not just specific to TT.
So there might be similar content on western SM but it's being held down and isn't showing on people feed 'organically'.
-
-
Kinda like the not-so-unsupported conspiracy theory that musk bought Twitter to silence protest coordination. That Twitter was too useful to the 'masses' and the "sinister cabal" (not my words) said it needed to be taken out.
To reiterate: this is not my position but it is one I've heard that matches the sentiment expressed in the parent comment
-
What we certainly do know is that Musk bought twitter not to enable free speech, but to control speech according to his personal whims and beliefs.
I imagine the Saudi's went in with Musk on the twitter deal to also control and dilute unfavorable speech. The Saudi ruler is the guy that assassinated journalist Jamal Khashoggi on foreign soil because he wasn't exactly a team Saudi ruler kind of guy.
-
I 100% admit that my take on the TikTok ban is opinion based on the hearings and arguments + the scope of the bill, so you aren't being unfair. I have never heard that about the Twitter purchase - I had read it was a poor decision Musk made only half-seriously and then was basically forced to follow through with.
-
-
TikTok is being banned for a bunch of different reasons all added together.
Republicans agreed to it, among the other reasons, because Democrats will get the blame for it and it will hurt Biden at the election.
Republicans and Democrats supported its ban because of sinophobia. It's a big, successful business in America, there's scaremongering around what data it's collecting or ways it could be used to manipulate people's opinions—ByteDance did not do itself any favours by coming out and telling all its American users to tell their Congresspeople to vote against this, which was spun as a demonstration of that power.
They also support the ban as part of an ongoing backlash against "big tech". Republicans are angry at big tech because they think it's too liberal. Democrats are angry at it for being addictive, abusing monopolistic powers, and other quite legitimate issues. The problem is that neither party is very good at actually dealing with the problem, so they just lash out wildly at whatever comes along that looks vaguely tech. Not realising that in this case, that will give way more power to Meta and Alphabet.
-
He is wrong though. When the war machine gets going we 100% have fake news. And the Journalists do not matter just look at New York Times massive Zionist propaganda takeover.
-
Oh shit, how did I miss the Noam Chompsky Bernie Sanders crossover episode!?
Thanks for sharing!
-
I agree with this. I think you're right.
-
Anyone who has spent any amount of time on TikTok knows this is true. The narrative is beyond their control there, lots of eyes see. That terrifies them.
-
That is some top level propaganda. Mixing facts with half truths and fiction. Nice.
-
-
Idk why so many people assumed they would its a data gold mine even with the USA blocked
-
I wonder if Tiktok will just make a seperate company that would comply before the 2025 ban comes to effect...
Or they will just exit the US market, interesting stuff.
I still think Glenn Greenwald views on this topic hold true.
"ByteDance doesn't have any plans to sell TikTok," the company posted on its official account on Toutiao, a social media platform it owns.
The sell-or-ban measure was signed into law by US President Joe Biden on Wednesday.
"We are confident and we will keep fighting for your rights in the courts," said TikTok boss Shou Zi Chew in a video posted on the platform this week.
"The facts, and the Constitution, are on our side... rest assured, we aren't going anywhere."
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would "inevitably come back to bite the US".
-
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would "inevitably come back to bite the US".
The fundamental ethos of the US and its propaganda of why it's the greatest country on the planet is the first amendment and the current bunch are absolutely destroying that illusion in plain sight of younger generations.
They're sending billions for wars and to Israel supporting and assisting them in genocide yet are saying to the ones they expect to pay for it that there's no money for healthcare, infrastructure, education, welfare, raising minimum wage, etc, etc, et al, and then still demanding they should receive their votes "because the other guys much worse".
I see a lot of younger people saying that both are shit, that the system is rigged and they ain't playing their game anymore. That is tantamount to revolution.
-
Funny how you concerned citizens always seem to mention Israel without also mentioning supporting Ukraine. Almost like it’s not on your talking points list.
If you don’t see an issue with a hostile nation state directly controlling something that is consumed by so many Americans, you’re not looking at it properly.
-
-
-
There's literally no reason to retaliate using state actors for this. It won't fix the economics, it won't fix the power balance.
The retaliation is when the US sets precedent in international economic relations and China uses it to cut off American tech companies from the Chinese market which is a massive revenue source for them. If China announced anything like that, it would kill the tech stocks future projections because all that growth that US tech was banking on would disappear.
-
Yeah, not too sure why you would forcefully see it as a threat...
If you already see it and think of a country as an enemy (boogeyman) than anything people from that country or gov't says would look like a threat or to be a scary statements...
At least that is how I see it...
I hope we shall continue to analyze our own way of thinking and talking about such topics!
-
Imagine WW3 kicking off from TikTok. Not even a cool battle or anything, just massive misinformation campaigns to incite violence and false flag attacks
-
-
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would "inevitably come back to bite the US".
If instead of getting anything they are opting to get $0, that actually confirms the "paranoia".
The fact that the two countries that are most accused of spreading disinformation (including using Western's own social media) not only provide their own alternatives, but also bans Western social media shows that West wasn't paranoid enough.
-
-
Who would ever think I'll side with TikTok...
-
First they came for the TikTok, and I said nothing, for I wasn't a Tiktoker.
-
Funny how y'all only oppose monopoly til it's time to circle the wagons around settler companies that can't compete on their own merits-- or in Meta, Alphabet, Apple, and Microsoft's cases, de-merits.
-
-
Since it hasn’t been mentioned yet; the real reason TikTok is being banned.
-
Sure. Ignoring that this started in 2020 during Trump's presidency.
-
And back then the Republicans were the party screaming about banning TikTok.
Now that israel is involved this became a lot less partisan very quickly.
-
Yes. This has been ongoing since TikTok acquired musical.ly. The CFIUS didn’t care as much until it became popular. TikTok has tried to comply, so why isn’t the CFIUS and there considerations being heeded?
-
-
This move against TikTok predates the Hamas attacks and Israel's military action. It's insane that TikTok's ban is because teens are more likely to be pro-palestine.
-
It does. But there are mechanisms within CFIUS that TikTok was working through. Trump and Congress decided to circumvent CFIUS and go after TikTok, which is their right, but why?
So CFIUS would be a good process that would be short of a ban. You know, they could look at the app. They could decide whether or not there are other things that the company could do. But I think Congress has basically gone and kind of short-circuited that process and said, no, we're not going to have the Committee on Foreign Investment look at this. We're not going to have other processes look at it. We're just going to make a decision as the Congress that this app needs to be sold in a short time, or it will be banned.
And so why is it that we'll still be able to access apps like the clothing company Shein in in the U.S. - that's also Chinese owned - Temu, which sells all sorts of stuff - clothing and housing goods? These apps are also Chinese owned and are on a lot of American phones. source
It’s because of TikTok’s popularity and influence.
-
-
This is the same conclusion Second Thought came to a while back in one of his youtube videos. While I don't disagree with the conclusion, I also wouldn't say it's mutually exclusive to reasoning promoted by the mainstream media of "foreign influence. " What's really wild is the idea that the ban is also being pushed by "foreign influence."
-
The concept that "foreign influence" can destabilize the system means the system itself is not transparent and fair enough.
It means local influence does not work in public interest, and the problem is not abroad, it's in your government.
-
Plausible deniability, 2 birds with 1 stone. There are hundreds of companies with foreign investors and influence. TikTok has tried to work with investigators and even spent $1.5 billion on a server framework for Project Texas. If TikTok was a crappy app and wasn’t the primary source of news for young adults, the government wouldn’t care.
-
-
You have got to be kidding. Did you really just link the canary? The same canary that got banned from Twitter for making antisemitic remarks.
They also failed dozens of fact checks.
-
I did. Because the leaked phone call is real.
-
-
fact checks
Opinion disregarded.
-
-
-
Sayonara
-
Good fucking riddance.
-
Good riddance? Not really cause US still has clones of tiktok present like reels and shorts.
Nothing will change. Data will still be collected. China can easily buy data from the open market. Mental health will still be affected.
In fact, due to lack of competition, things will only get worse.
US and India are 2 moronic countries
-
-
-
I feel like this ban WILL start a monopoly. Since Facebook does the same amount or more data mining than TikTok, Facebook will have to be banned alongside Instagram, making YouTube Shorts a monopoly, as there really isn't any other alternatives that are relevant.
-
They don't care about monopoly. They care about evil China. It doesn't seem to be an issue to strenghten evil Meta and Alphabet.
-
This isn't about privacy or Meta and Google would be slapped too, this is just about the newest boogeyman for americans.
-
-
This makes sense as there still billions of other potential users around the world. Add to that the fact that other nations like content of their own cultures in their own languages. It means even if they will feel the change the platform won't collapse because it is missing US users. Now If other countries follow in the US footsteps then it becomes a different story.
-
If you as a content creator have a choice between a platform with 3 billion people (US and India included), like Shorts and Instagram Reels, and one without (TikTok), where would you post?
This is a clear disadvantage given to tiktok only to protect its own companies cause if US actually cared about data and mental health, homegrown Tech companies would also face repercussions.
LETS NOT FORGET, China can VERY EASILY buy most of the data it needs from the open market which many US companies, including Big Tech contribute to.
This has done nothing for citizens. Only protected innovation less US companies.
-
-
Won't people just continue using the app? Wouldn't it be as easy as side loading future installs?
-
You overestimate the tech literacy of the majority.
-
If the tutorial can't be boiled down to a 30 second video, tiktok users aren't going to be able to comprehend it.
-
It's excruciatingly easy to side load on android, to the point where it is outright dangerous for laymen.
All it will take is a 30s tiktok showing how to side load and they're done, tech literate or not
-
-
iPhone has enormous market dominance in the US and no sideloading.
-
Shhh, you're not supposed to point out Apples fla... uh, features.
-
-
I expect that Tiktok will strart distributing the app as an apk on their website.
-
Worse. Unless they're going to start the Great American Firewall you can just go to the website.
-
iPhone has left the chat.
-
Or use it as a Progressive Web App. This could be a good thing for awareness of PWAs and for them being seen as a killer feature that people won't buy a smartphone unless they support them well. A transition away from app stores to PWAs can only be good.
If they are doing TikTok, maybe they should do Facebook, Reddit and YouTube next.
-
-
Banning TikTok in an election year is proof Democrats don't want to win.
-
Lol it was bipartisan. Not just democrats, Republicans as well.
-
So what? This only pisses off the Democrat's base and it will make them stay home.
-
The sell-or-ban measure was signed into law by US President Joe Biden on Wednesday.
This is the important part you might have missed, without a president signing it into law it means nothing.
Similar to when Biden said he would never sign a M4A bill (4yrs ago), he would veto, which became a deal breaker to some on the far left.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=biden+veto+medicare+for+all+bill
-
-
What’s the overlap between people who vote Republican and people who use Tiktok? I’m actually curious.
-
The age range skews younger, so probably not huge. It's definitely there though - lots of "tradwife" thinly disguised fetish content. 😒
There's a reason Trump came out against this ban, he knows it's going to be unpopular and he loses nothing by flip-flopping on it.
This is just a free W for Trump and an L for Democrats with literally zero upsides. It accomplishes nothing besides pissing people off!
-
You'd be surprised. I used to work in a rural factory. All the big burly red-neck older men were on tiktok during their smoke breaks.
-
They're both dumb as hell and love to be influenced by autocratic governments
-
-
Yes, that is just another reason the DNC/Democrates will continue to lose support, compared to 2020.
Some also left the duopoly due to following the DNC Fraud Lawsuit, Bernie Sanders 2016.
Interesting times we are living in, we shall continue to follow!
-
-
But but but... the American government HATES having a light shined on it.
-
Long as they dont criminalize possession
-
If we could have it banned in Europe or just Germany I would be happy for my people.
-
Just don't use it if you don't like it.
-
I dislike it. But no. Don't be authorjtarian like China. Bann it on phones of those with security clearances, but that's all.
-
-
Ok boomer
-
-
-
Bye felecia
-
If ByteDance have any balls they’ll sell to the shittiest company for the lowest bid.
-
Still think it's a baited headline given their stated intention to go to court to fight the "unconstitutional ruling". I'm not so sure the constitution gives foreign companies many legal rights so in that regard they'd perhaps be more protected if they were an American company. Whoops.
TikTok's 80% of investors who aren't ByteDance won't pass up billions of dollars in cash either if the alternative is that they forever get zero from the American market.
They've been investing heavily in the US market for the last couple years too, so I doubt they are in the black.
They've just all around played politics the American way very poorly. I can't really comment on whether that's good or bad but I'm blown away this Shou Chew CEO dude still has a job after this came down.
-
A thing never mentioned in these debates is that noone in the world is buying tiktok without buying the underlying algorithm, the same algorithm the app runs on worldwide, the algorithm is the special sauce. They are not going to sell the basis for their app just for a single payday in the US market, which after buying it, they could rebrand and then once successful in the US, compete in the global market against tiktok but with the income of the most lucrative app market in the world behind them. It’s an extremely stupid business move.
-
They're probably going to find themselves having to explain what it means that a social media platform is itself engaged in speech, instead of functioning as a platform for others to speak. TikTok users, whose voices are allegedly curtailed by the ban, aren't exactly prevented from going to another platform.
If they say that it's Tiktok's speech that's curtailed, they're going to have to explain carefully how they're not a foreign influence operation.
The language of the first amendment is pretty stark, but the courts have always understood it has various limits.
-
-
-
What?
-
-
In fact, even if they wanted to they can't.
Remember the "algorithm panic" that happened a couple years ago? The one that saw Zuckerberg the subject of a senate hearing?
During that, they made it illegal to sell algorithms.
So the TikTok logo can be sold, but it is illegal for them to sell the algorithm that is TikTok.
-
I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, but algorithms are, generally speaking, code. You can purchase a company and their code.
-
Admittedly, I don't know the details, so I'll concede readily if someone has something to say I'm flat out wrong, but TikTok is on fire with lawyers posting their legal analysis of the situation, and the overwhelming concensus that a couple years ago, a series of laws were passed that would make it illegal for a US company to purchase a Chinese algorithm.
The company, the branding, yes.
Specifically the algorithm, no.
Paranoid people who don't know how to open a PDF passed laws that make that nearly, if not entirely, impossible.
Or so a bunch of lawyers that have side TikTok gigs say.
They are anticipating that being a core argument when TikTok US sues the federal government.
-
-
297 comments