Those who are against iOS and Apple in general, have you tried their devices lately?

I think you should talk to your friends about this, not us.

They know why they (appear to) judge you better than any of us can infer from reading your side of the story.

But to answer your question as written: Yes, I am very familiar with their hardware and products. The hardware is good. The products are coherent. The company is dishonest, monopolistic and anti-consumer. I value my consumer freedom higher.

1. Are you AI/bot?
2. Wall of text = incomprehensible, would not read/5.
3. It's rarely about how good the devices are, but how much they cost + Apple's two-faced moral model that makes people oppose/reject it.

My ADHD only allowed me to read the first two sentences.

1. Stop caring about what other people think about Apple.

2. Start using paragraphs.

3. Learn how to express your thoughts in a short and clear manner.

Paragraphs.

Paragraphs?

Paragraphs!

I'm not reading that whole post, but in answer to the title. I use an android for my personal phone and an iPhone for my work phone. I've used both side by side for more than the last 10 years. Without a doubt the android phone is more functional and easier to use. I don't give a shit about cameras, messaging apps, or brand loyalty. The android is more affordable and allows me to send texts, surf the internet, and watch YouTube without adds through vanced. I would never consider getting an iPhone as my personal use phone.

If you like Apple and Mac, go ahead, use whatever you like. I think the hate comes from the hype attitude apple users typically have. They are a bit too hardcore about it and it gets annoying. I know, some bad apples spoil the lot (pun?) and I'm sure there's Apple lovers who don't go around preaching or trying to convert anyone. My sister loves her iPhone, yet I never heard her recommend me get one, or even brag about it.

Now you will have to understand different people value different things. For me, if you can't sideload apps, if it's too hard to jailbreak, if it's too expensive, if I can't run the niche software I need to run- I'm not going to bother. For these reasons I'm not an apple customer.

Finally, no, no haven't used any Apple products lately. I think the last time I did was a Mac at uni some 5 years ago, and I've always found the interface counterintuitive. The mouse design is very uncomfortable. I don't like their keyboards. Perhaps these things changed or maybe we have compatibility, but again, adding to the reasons in paragraph 2- I don't see why I should bother.

I use an iPad for work. It's getting better now that they have widgets and allow a little customization. I hate the app store and the keyboard (even with gbosrd installed it's still clunky), and almost everything about using it. That said, it starts quickly, has good battery life, and is durable. Good device, terrible os. Android feels like the opposite - less reliable (more restarts) but much more pleasant to use. I haven't used an apple computer in a hundred years but i dint remember it being bad. My kids use macs for design stuff at home and work and love them. As someone else mentioned, i think it's ios that is hated.

Also cool thing about the iPhone. Bottom right of the keyboard there’s a button labeled “return”. Push it twice to start a new paragraph.

I had an iPhone 12 for two weeks before I returned it. I tried to like it because, while you're still in a corp walled garden and they cannot really be trusted, they so far are better than Google at least with regards to privacy.

However, there's a list of stuff that got me too annoyed. Some examples:

• the stock keyboard is just garbage. All the infamous typos on social media come from iPhones because they choose to correct words that have already been written. You also cannot sensibly replace the stock keyboard because you cannot block a specific app's data usage and keyboards are far too critical apps to grant internet access.
• stock apps are good overall (better than Android) but that means people don't make replacements. The mail app could've been great but they choose to not support PGP and it's practically impossible to set up.
• you cannot replace Safari completely, some apps still open it. Safari is crap because no way to install adblock.
• you still feel that iOS wasn't developed as a multi-threading system. I had a few apps that wouldn't correctly work while in background
• apps are far more expensive than for Android. Lots of subscription-based plans, more comparable to full-price PC software than mobile apps.
• no native file system access. Apps are sandboxed and handle their files themselves. I prefer to do that myself but no chance on iOS.
• the community is garbage. Every question or critcisim is the user's fault. The Holy Corp does not make mistakes. Collective Stockholm syndrome.

I also ran into various bugs. I do on every platform but the "it just works" narrative is especially strong for Apple and it's just not like their fans claim.

I'm pro Mac OS. Anti iOS.

My main metric is can I run software on the device of my choosing. On iOS you cannot run your own software, there's no f droid. That's a deal breaker for me. So I don't recommend it..

On Mac OS you can run whatever you want. And that's fine.

It's ultimately up to you, I don't like seeing advertisements, I like to run my own software.

I haven't tried nor will I want to try Apple products for the following reasons:

Apple products seem to always have some critical design flaw under the surface, or even something I can only put down to deliberate malicious designed-to-fail, not-repairable shenanigans (soldered SSD, serializing even trivial parts like screen opening sensor, having high voltage backlight pin right next to low voltage signaling pin that connects directly to the soldered CPU etc).

The software is extremely locked down, I simply cannot function without Fdroid and installing packages straight from Github (how else am I going to extract the necessary encryption keys to use a gadget with an unofficial FLOSS application instead of the official spyware?). Android is not perfect, but at least I can hack it and mutilate it as I see fit and there are custom ROM-s. My next phone will probably run /e/ OS.

Plus Apple lacks the critical-to-me hardware like 3.5mm analog audio output. IR blaster is also nice to have when working with AV stuff that may not have the remote with them.

Last, but not least, they're simply too expensive for me. I'm not willing to pay more than 300...400€ for a phone, and I don't want to buy a mobile gadget used—demons only know what that thing has been through. And Apple desktop/laptop computers—yeah, well, just no. I like my standardized x64 architecture, where I can upgrade RAM and storage as I see fit for cheap and install whatever opsys I want, just fine thankyouverymuch.

I'll consider an iPhone when they get rid of the giant notch and allow sideloading and more browser engines.

They were enraged on how i “betrayed” them by switching to iPhone.

Your friends need to chill the fuck out.

I've used Apple devices for work in the past (phone and laptop) although not for about 7 or 8 years and they were fine - bit of a learning curve as I have always been a Windows and Android person, but I got used to them, and those aspects of them that I found ideosyncratic (or just plain dumb!)

That said, it'd take a pretty big shift for me to want to go back to Apple by choice, but that's partly because of cost and the sheer number of apps I'd have to buy to replace those I have.

But, if you want to go with Apple, it's your call, and your friends should not be taking it so seriously.

My ex's dad worked for someone that would get a new phone for each member of his family yearly and then would give his old phones to his employees. I ended up receiving year-old iPhones until 2020.

My local library had an iMac lab. I spend countless hours doing my work and hanging out there, all using iMacs. Eventually, I also bought an Apple Intel laptop with the awful butterfly keyboard, only to sell it a couple of months afterwards.

So I have tried Apple hardware. Up until 2020 it was the only smartphone hardware I ever used. It was the computer hardware I used for the vast majority of my middle and highschool years (heck, even in college there's an iMac lab that I spent quite some time in).

I spent most of my life using Apple hardware with Apple software and when I switched to repairable hardware and libre software exclusively, my life improved.

I use Apple devices for work and although their hardware and software are reasonably well refined, I would never choose to use them for my personal devices as long as they continue their anti consumer walled garden approach.

First, you really shouldn't let your friends tell you what to buy or not buy. Advise yes, but nothing more.

Personally, there's a lot about the Apple ecosystem I just don't like. I have no doubt whatsoever that their products are probably great and work together well. But their pricing and the way they treat users when it comes to repairs are the main problems I have with them.

I think it's just better to use what works best for you.

Brands are nowadays another way to communicate social status. Apple is the peak of conspicuous consumption hence the negative associations for some. Furthermore, Apple devices, although great for what they do, they come with numerous caveats. You’re limited on how much you can do with them. Great if you’re a newbie, not so great if you know your way round a computer and like for things to work your way. Their customer support used to be top notch but now it’s just an other outlet to force you into another expense. Over the past few years they’ve behaved very much against the interest of the consumer. So that didn’t help their public image among those who care about stuff like this. That is not to say their products are good. On the contrary, they’re great. Polished and generally, reliable. Until they’re not. Whatever you’re friend’s opinion know that it’s mostly based on their sense of identity and values.

People has often a natural need to play teams. I would have serious discussion with your friends about it. Because there is a limit when friendly ribbing turns not friendly. And that doesn’t sound healthy friendship.

iPhone is great for some people and Android is great for some people. I am happy you found what works for you.

But I have to ask what are you using for syncthing? Last time I tried it it was really sub par compared to my android.

No. To me, Apple is like Nazis. They look good but are bad. The end.

As someone who actively avoids Apple products I do not have any issue with their hardware or software and actually recommend apple to people like my mom who need things that just work and work well. The reasons though that I personally avoid Apple is I disagree with many of their anti consumer practices, their "walled garden" mentality, and their blatant refusal to make things more repairable. On that note you mention HP and I avoid them as well for the same reasons. HP, Dell, and other big name manufacturers of Windows laptops and PCs use the same tactics as apple. I personally built my own desktop and bought a second hand laptop that I replaced some parts in and put Linux on so it runs much better now but these are things I can't recommend to people like my mother.

As for phones it is the same story as above but sadly virtually all options when it comes to manufacturers are anti consumer so the main thing that keeps me on Android is the ability to install apps from other places.

I think people take the anti apple train a bit too hard sometimes because they are easier to s**t on than having to name 20 different windows manufacturers or Android ones.

Side note many software engineers I know swear by MacBooks because their underlying kernal is more similar to unix and also the whole "it just works" part is huge when your company is buying you the machine and can't really fuck up by buying any 1 of the maybe 6 choices they had through apple

Most of the things I use my phone for don't work on iPhones. They work just fine if you want the limited apps that they have available. I've found that making custom automation is not even a thing with Apple. You can't side load apps, so you're limited to just what they offer inside their store.

iPhones are for people who aren't really into tech and just want something very basic that works.

I'm anti-cloud for many reasons, privacy being one of them. I want access and control of my own files. I use Syncthing to sync my files between all my devices.

I would be unable to do this on iPhone as access to the file system is extremely locked down on iOS devices.

I use apple products as main devices since I was 16 and bought my first Mac, I’m not a fan girl, these are all shitty companies so Android/Google, Apple or Windows for me it’s the same but I have to say that the way iOS works is super intuitive to me, it’s like my brain works the same way (obviously there’s some stupid stuff like the way Settings are arranged) and I have also Android devices form various brands but I wouldn’t change my iphone/mac even if I have to buy everything refurbished because the cost is prohibitive!

The keyboard is ok, I registered many abbreviations so writing is very simple; Safari works fine and you can install adblockers, or if you want you can download another browser, just without extensions;

If you are a geek and privacy focused I agree that a de-googled Android is the best but for the average joe an iphone works well

I dont really care. But isn't Apple getting worse and worse by deliberately making it impossible to repair or service their products?

I tend to find that for every complaint there’s at least 10 more people out there using their Apple devices quite happily.

Use what you want or that works best for you at the end of the day.

I made the switch to iPhone after my nexus 5 had a system crash when I tried to toggle the WiFi off/on. Haven’t really looked back since.

I just don't like how you get around in an iphone. Admittedly, I haven't used Macs in a very long time, so maybe they're pretty good nowadays (I still hear you can't upgrade them at all tho, sooo...maybe not?), but most of it comes down to me feeling lost navigating the thing.

The other thing is how expensive Apple Products are in comparison to the competition, and the walled garden thing they got going on. Androids are just easier to move around in, cheaper, and give me more control over my device. That's the other big thing that steers me away from iphones: I pay more for a "premium" product and get a lack of control over it.

On android: If I wanna not use the Play Store, I can ignore it and use something else, if I don't like the stock apps, i can look for replacements that do suit my tastes (tbf, I can do this on Apple too, but there isn't much by comparison), if I wanna install a custom ROM, I can install it, if I wanna root the thing and sideline apps while I'm at it, I can, if I want to brick my phone...I'm an idiot, but I have that option. I can do none of that, or do some of it in a limited way, on an iphone.

Pretty much, I don't like how unintuitive the UI is, how restricting the system feels to me, and the company's overall anti consumer stance

I had an iPhone 12 for a couple of years but got fed up with how restrictive iOS is. I've also had a few iPads over the years but never really used them as much as I'd have hoped. My only experience with a Mac was trying to use an iMac on campus back when I was at uni and it was the slowest and laggiest computer I think I've ever used.

They've become a lot better in the past fifteen years in terms of usability and respect for their users, but the price point is still out of whack. They sell style as much as function... sometimes to the detriment of function.

You're not locked in but you bought a laptop of the same brand as your phone and are in awe that everything clicks?

I don't need to. iPhones are pretty but every time I've been forced to use one I wanted to pull my hair out, I know they're vaunted for being easy to use but I find them incredibly unintuitive, and I need help to do basically anything. MacOS is mostly Fine™ (with that being said - no window snapping? really?!), but they have no laptops with a number pad on the keyboard, and even if they did, they don't have matte display options so I couldn't comfortably use the damn thing anyway. It's a laptop, I'm not going to use it exclusively in darkened rooms with the lights turned off.

Edit: Also, MacBooks are entirely unupgradable. So that's a hard no from me based on that alone. The "need more storage/RAM? Buy a new laptop!" approach is just entirely unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.

I personally am not the biggest apple fan but I find it downright disturbing how your "friends" are so adamant about this. My own dislike stems from overinflated prices, working conditions in the electronics sector in general and apple in particular (I have a fairphone and a headache about tablet use...) and waaaaaaay back I had an iPad that wasn't compatible with a windows/linux machine.

Doesn't mean apple doesn't have their good points, you are most firmly entitled to decide yourself what you spend money on and anything else wouldn't be decent behaviour in my opinion. Let alone how I'd treat my friends. Stating an opinion is nice and healthy, what they do... Not so much.

Lots of comments, low votes, yeah, lemmings don't like Apple at all 😂

I have used Apple smartphones in my teenage days, up until 2020 where I ditched my old iPhone 6s for a Poco F2 Pro, I was pretty comfortable with it, and it is my main phone even until this day. (Currently using custom ROMs, I did not even wait until the warranty to expire to get rid of stock MIUI lol).

I have always liked the freedom of my gadgets, I was always keen to jailbreak/mod whatever I can, unfortunately iOS did make this harder even until today, but at the same time it improved a lot to make some users not miss too much jailbreak (I was one of them since I used less and less my phone).

This very fact of liking freedom made me enjoy the Android side more (my other big Android device is the Nvidia Shield TV and I sideload every shit that interests me).

I legit think most lemmings don't give the opportunity to at least test Apple devices, I know they are corporate, I know they are closed source, but I still think it is a bit of close mind to not even acknowledge them as what they are.... A more than capable adversary of Android smartphones, heck, my girlfriend has an iPhone 13 and it feels so premium (even her previous 11 and 7 did), the apps are so well made, the apps barely reload in the background with its joke amount of RAM, even with its very limited customization side you can tweak a lot the home screen and the lockscreen overall to some next level shit... I'd like to have different kinds of home screens per session based (routines) on Android, and no, changing launchers does not count as they have cringe animations since A11...

In a nutshell every time I try it is a hell of a well made phone, but even having that in mind I'd not get back to it... Not in the short term at least, Android has grown on me so much that first I'd get a premium Android device (maybe Pixel because I don't like One UI), but if iOS keeps improving who knows, maybe someday.

Recent Apple is the whole problem! Jobs era apple was amazing, but Cook era Apple is just a style brand with mediocre products. I used to love everything apple made, but for a long time now I've disliked almost everything they've done.

A lot of people that have feelings and behave like your friends do so out of insecurity. Apple stuff works really well within their own ecosystem. They’re kinda dicks about how they run their app-store, and I do believe they overcharge for most everything they make; but it doesn’t change that their stuff works really well, consistently.

I have to use Windows, OSX and various forms of Linux on almost a daily basis. They all have pros and cons.

Oh, Apple's ecosystem is absolutely brilliant, but the problem is that it only works with Apple hardware and software with no indication of future cross platform compatibility. So you basically get suckered into buying Apple products only, if you want to keep your passwords, documents, podcasts, etc.

Like migrating into Apple's platform is easy, but moving back out is almost impossible. The main problem lies with how irritating it can get to consume content provided by services outside their domain.

Personally I am happy with my Macbook, because I can still download and install apps without using the App Store, but I could never see myself migrating to iOS because that would mean losing my manga collection, my emulators, the ability to watch free movies on Stremio, etc.

Edit: Oh, yeah the iOS keyboard is an absolute travesty. It makes textboxes so frustrating to deal with. How can you have a virtual keyboard without a clipboard in this day and age?

iPhone are great, but restrictive. The DMA will open up competition on iOS for those in the EU soon. We'll be able to install competing app stores, and download and install any software we like without having to go through Apple.

MacBooks are really well built. I'm not a big fan of macOS, but it does integrate well with my iPhone.

Ignore anyone who mocks you for using the right tool for the job. People who make technology their whole personality don't really have much depth.

I'd say both are good it just depends on what you like, Ive noticed android gets a lot of features first but they are always clunky to the way apple will implement them. Personally I still prefer Android because I change my launcher to kiss and make everything text based, I prefer windows over Mac just because I'm used to all the shortcuts already and the way software works. Having used Mac at work for a while I always had to second think taking screen shots and all that going between windows and Mac

Yes. I recently switched from an iPhone pro to a Pixel pro and I greatly prefer the Pixel. I'm still learning cool new things I can do with my Pixel after months of use. The text selection is absolutely awful on the iPhone, as is the keyboard. Those two things alone were reason enough for me to switch.

I oppose the Apple brand because of the typical users. They are a quite toxic group in my experience. For me, this is so bad, I would not even touch the IOS devices if they were actually good.

Via Claude.ai, a simplified version of the OP's complaint: For years, my peers told me to avoid Apple devices. However, none of them actually used Apple devices recently. Their knowledge was based on outdated information or peer pressure.

I'm in the EU where Apple isn't as popular. I've used Android phones and Windows PCs for 15 years. I was constantly let down by my phones after 1-3 years, across brands like HTC, LG, Sony, Samsung, Xiaomi, Nokia, OnePlus. Each phone had issues like notification problems, bad battery life, slow camera, restarts.

A year ago, I decided to try an iPhone 13 to see what the fuss was about. After a week, I was doing everything on the iPhone. Six months later, when my Windows laptop died, I considered a thin Debian laptop.

Then I remembered my peers' anger when I switched to iPhone. So I looked at Mac laptops, which were similarly priced. I got a base M2 Air. I loved the iPhone-Mac integration and features like AirDrop.

My "friends" mocked me for using Apple, claiming I was "locked in" and "fell for marketing." But I don't use any paid Apple services. I connected my Apple devices to my home server successfully. I feel more freedom because some things work better than on Android or Windows.

Why so much hate without first-hand experience? Why can't I decide for myself? Why is Apple connectivity looked down on when that's not the case? Shouldn't you at least try before judging?