Gunmen in combat fatigues fire at crowds at Moscow concert hall, a big blaze follows
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
It's worth recalling when support for the Chechen war was low, Putin initiated a campaign of apartment building bombings in 1999.
Some chatter that there were around 8 shooters, and they walked into the hall and immediately shot 40-50, result might end up with over 100 killed. One of the shooters has allegedly been arrested, ISIS-K or Imarat Kavkaz would be under srict instructions NOT to be taken alive. There's considerable dueling narratives right now
No matter who is actually responsible - Putin will probably blame Ukraine
It looks like US Intelligence warned of this attack in early March.
People at the venue lost all phone and Internet connectivity right prior to the attack. Jamming was being used.
The entire city of Moscow is now on lockdown.
ISIS, through its outlet al-Amaq, just claimed responsibility for the terror attack in Moscow tonight.
People were posting videos while the attack was happening. Where are you getting this information about "jamming" from? Nearby traffic distribution nodes were likely overloaded which resulted in degraded performance of Telegram and VK services. This is something to be expected when thousands or even millions of people start sending messages all at once, trying to figure out what's happening to their friends and family.
An excerpt from the article:
In October 2002, Chechen militants took about 800 people hostage at a Moscow theater. Two days later, Russian special forces stormed the building and 129 hostages and 41 Chechen fighters died, most of them from effects of narcotic gas Russian forces use to subdue the attackers.
Those are two separate events...
The false flag apartment bombings were carried out by actual Russian security services - not Chechen assets, or militants.
On an related unrelated note, some of Russian agents who took part were comically stupid. If you aren't aware of the Sims vs SIM card mix-up, do yourself a favor and look it up.
Edit: as pointed out below, the Sims vs SIM card was not part of the 1999 false flag operation, but a more recent one (2022). My bad.
It's worth recalling when support for the Chechen war was low, Putin initiated a campaign of apartment building bombings in 1999.
That was the immediate memory. It's interesting how much truth will be figured out in this current case.
The entire city of Moscow is now on lockdown.
Only public places.
Thank god! Steets are safe again huh? Like those evil election protests, finally a curfew ended all that
You are wrong on a lot of counts here buddy. May want to take a Valium and leave the geopolitics alone.
This is nuts. This better not be some bullshit to manufacture consent for war escalation.
A lot has been said about Call of Duty MWII, but if your theory is correct then we'll have to say that, of all things, its plot was prescient. And i'm not ready for that
As mentioned in another comment, wouldn't be the first time
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings
From the article:
The official said U.S. intelligence agencies had gathered information in recent weeks that the IS branch was planning an attack in Moscow. He said U.S. officials privately shared the intelligence earlier this month with Russian officials. The official was briefed on the matter but was not authorized to publicly discuss the intelligence information and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity.
...
The Kremlin didn’t immediately blame anyone for the attack, but some Russian lawmakers were quick to accuse Ukraine and called for ramping up strikes. Hours before the attack, the Russian military l aunched (sic) a sweeping barrage on Ukraine’s power system, crippling the country’s biggest hydroelectric plant and other energy facilities and leaving more than a million people without electricity.
Dmitry Medvedev, deputy head of Russia’s Security Council, said that if Ukraine involvement was proven, all those involved “must be tracked down and killed without mercy, including officials of the state that committed such outrage.”
Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, denied Ukraine involvement.
Has anybody claimed responsibility for this yet? This doesn't sound like the Ukraine. They hit strategic shit.
Not seeing anything yet but it can be hard to get accurate news reporting from a country that kills subversive journalists and is in a war. I think most are assuming it's either an internal or external paramilitary group related to the war in Ukraine, or domestic terrorists related to the recent elections, I think targeting a concert is more likely the latter but we'll see which group takes responsibility if any.
But Russia will immediately blame it on Ukraine and the west anyway lol
The article mentions the US warned of an imminent attack last month and the Russian state dismissed it. Russia also has a history of utilizing false flag operations to start shit, so I’m leaning towards that atm (before more details come out)
I mean… Putin did get into power by running false flag terrorist bombings on his own country, so there’s that angle too.
Russia is not against doing false flag terrorist operations. That is how Putin came to power.
Also Putin is not Russia
IS has apparently claimed responsibility via telegram
This would have the opposite effect for Ukraine. It would cause Russians to actually rally around the flag and be more pro war. The Ukrainian strategy has been to just kill Russian combatants and hope they kill enough that Russians themselves start protesting the war on the home front.
And blow up oil refineries that fund the war machine.
It wouldn’t surprise me if this was Putin’s doing. He has a history of committing violence against him own people and blaming others.
US intelligence wanted them weeks ago about an impending attack
Gunmen went in armed, met zero resistance, were busy for over an hour, no police ever showed up.
IS claimed responsibility pretty much immediately.
Putin ignored all that and obviously blamed Ukraine because of course.
This is no false flag operation, Russia would never.
Poor Russians, always the target of unprovoked attacks. How did the US know beforehand anyway? Super sus!
Per the article, no one claimed responsibility
Yep, was hoping for updated news.
The Islamic State group claimed responsibility for the attack in a statement posted on affiliated channels on social media. A U.S. intelligence official told The Associated Press that U.S. intelligence agencies had learned the group’s branch in Afghanistan was planning an attack in Moscow and shared the information with Russian officials.
Respect to USA for trying.
The problem is that, this helps Putin. If we assume he has no regard for human life, then this is a massive opportunity for him. He's made the most out of opportunities like this one in the past.
This attack on innocent lives is a profound tragedy as it is. I wish I could spend more time dwelling on the plight of the victims but my brain won't stop panicking about all the ways Putin can exploit this situation to ruin even more lives.
It's why I couldn't shake the idea that this might be a false flag operation. It's why I can't deny the prospect that perhaps Russian security services didn't do all they could to stop this before it occurred.
My thoughts to the victims and those close to them.
It's why I couldn't shake the idea that this might be a false flag operation. It's why I can't deny the prospect that perhaps Russian security services didn't do all they could to stop this before it occurred.
It makes him look weak, distracted, and unprepared. People might think his attention and army is spread too thin with the war in Ukraine.
Seems like a really shitty false flag operation to me.
Putin is already blaming Ukraine.
US security services have notified Russia of an impending attack, they notified US citizens there to about large gatherings
Gunmen went in calmly, shot at people for 1.5 hours without being stopped, then calmly walked back into a car and drove off.
IS claimed responsibility immediately
Russia claims it arrested the same gunmen in the car that was already identified and look at that, they went straight for the Ukraine border, an impossible to pass war zone. Uh huh...
All of this clearly shows it was the Ukraine!
It wouldn't exactly be the first time he'd do something like this, although if this is the case it'd be quite extreme even for him.
They also warned Iran before ISIS-K did their other attack.
"Dear USA pliese not to disturb Russian false fleg operetion. It cost many rubles to setup."
Liberation means liberating the oppresses and the oppressors.
Okay, but there's no way to know whether that "intelligence official" is telling the truth.
I trust Russia blindly, they have shown so many times not to do evil things.
Didn't a lot of western countries warn their citizens to not attend any public gatherings in Moscow a couple of weeks ago due to an imminent Isis attack?
Yes indeed.
From what I have read, Russian government is already trying to blame Ukraine. Deepfakes where secretary of nsdc of Ukraine takes responsibility for the attack are being shown on Russian TV. Medvedev said in his tg that they will punish “Kievan regime” if it’s responsible for the attack.
It was the first thing they went for
Oh hush.
Lol what the actual fuck are you smoking because please provide it to the rest of the class.
You are going to need to at least provide some sort of source to make a batshit insane comment like that.
Removed and temp banned for BLATANT misinformation.
This particular conspiracy theory stems from a couple of things... an ISIS attack on Israel back in, I think it was 2016? That ISIS actually APOLOGIZED for. Followed by this kind of weird lack of response from Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-defense-minister-says-is-apologized-to-israel-for-november-clash/
When you condsider how Israel has no problem killing Palestinians and bulldozing homes for throwing rocks or shooting off rockets that do little to no damage, that seems a little sus.
Oh, and they may have bought oil from ISIS.
But it's a GIANT leap to go from that to "ISIS works for Israel to attack Russia." That's tinfoil hat territory.
Warning, graphic videos
What was that thing at 0:20? One of them dropped something and the other one picked it up.
EDIT: 2nd last video is very graphic
Videos seem busted. I hit play and they don't play.
I kinda struggle to show empathy for this, after the last couple years of them doing & supporting this kind of shit in Ukraine.
If you can't show empathy for murdered civilians just because of their nationality, are you really any better? This was a concert hall, not a military base. Think about what you are tacitly endorsing here...
Probably because your a tribalist and think everyone else is, too.
I see it all the time and don't expect more from you people at this point.
I don't know what that means but it sounds a bit unkind.
@Wilshire @BaroqueInMind You you are a perfect example of how easy it is to program people with video games and movies lol
Chechens finally making a move?
It could be. It certainly tracks with the separatists' move into guerilla tactics later in the second Chechen war.
Out of any time for them to start striking again, this would be it. Russia is stretched thin in manpower and supplies, and their attention is very focused on Ukraine and the West. Their ability to dump resources into the southern Caucus to tamp down a potential Chechen War #3 is definitely going to be limited. And coupled with the completion of Putin's sham election, it sends a very strong message against Russia's outward facade of "unity".
Why would they attack random civilians instead of pulling a Wagner move towards the Kreml? Russia already showed that they wouldn't have much of a resistance to show for it.
What, is Kadyrov not a lapdog anymore? He would seem to be the first hurdle, not a later one. Of course maybe he’s dead or something, idk, i haven’t checked tiktok in a long time.
They might have beards, hard to tell from the footage I've seen.
May be Islamic terrorism or a bad ol' fashioned Russian false flag. I doubt Ukrainians or Ukrainian supporting people would do a random terror shooting, they like to be more targeted and the shooting was at random people. There was a foiled group of Islamic terrorists arrested earlier this month, maybe another group.
We will have to see what Russia says.
The Third Chechen War
Could be Chechen fringe separatist group. or Ingushetia.
“Remember, no Russian”
And of course uncle Putin is saying it was Ukraine.
US security services have notified Russia of an impending attack, they notified US citizens there to about large gatherings
Gunmen went in calmly, shot at people for 1.5 hours without being stopped, then calmly walked back into a car and drove off.
IS claimed responsibility immediately
All of this clearly shows it was the Ukraine!
This has never happened before in Russia except those couple of times when they did and Putin was literally responsible.
Such a strange attack by this mysterious IS, and very convenient timing too! Poor Russia, people keep attacking them out of the blue!
I will now instruct my LEGO miniature violin to play Alexa in commemoration.
China and Russia just blocked a truce in Gaza. Makes sense.
Makes sense. ISIS, who claimed responsibility for the attack, famously hates when Russia blocks a truce in Gaza.
So in essence:
Either way it will be Soviet style lying. The incompetence will be wiped under the rug. The deliberate holding back information and not adequate precautions will not be easily to be proven, yet it creates the narrative for the mobilisation. Fear is Russia's weapon of mass destruction, the lies are the instruments to fire those weapons.
“Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid.”
I mean the 'chechn' bombings were absolutely orchestrated by Putin, that's how he came to power
Or, hold your breath now, because it was the GRU that planned the attack.
MSNBC is reporting that Russian sources are saying 40 dead.
CNN is reporting 40 dead, but that the shooting was at a shopping center outside the concert hall.
Still developing.
CNN is reporting 40 dead, but that the shooting was at a shopping center outside the concert hall.
In the video I wish I hadn't just watched it looked more like that to me.
There were gunmen in both places. Videos linked in this thread show that, though I do not recommend watching them.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Russian news reports said that the assailants also used explosives, causing a massive blaze at the Crocus City Hall on the western edge of Moscow.
Video posted on social media showed huge plumes of black smoke rising over the building.
Russia’s state RIA Novosti news agency reported that at least three people in combat fatigues fired weapons.
Extended rounds of gunfire could be heard on multiple videos posted by Russian media and Telegram channels.
Another one showed a man inside the auditorium, saying the assailants set it on fire, with incessant gunshots ringing out in the background.
Andrei Vorobyov, the governor of the Moscow region, said he was heading to the area and set up a task force to deal with the damage.
The original article contains 202 words, the summary contains 123 words. Saved 39%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
have they tried to blame this on Woke yet?
Of course not, they're already blaming Ukraine.
US security services have notified Russia of an impending attack, they notified US citizens there to about large gatherings
Gunmen went in calmly, shot at people for 1.5 hours without being stopped, then calmly walked back into a car and drove off.
IS claimed responsibility immediately
All of this clearly shows it was the Ukraine!
Russia defenseless against cave people! Join the army to protec mader rassia.
A thing that’s really annoying to me about this is they don’t specify what the gunmen looked like and specifically what rifles they were carrying. IS has claimed responsibility, but if it was a bunch of Russian dudes with brand new AKs, it’s far less likely it was actually the IS, and was just an FSB op. Granted the FSB could have supplied brand new AKs, but far less likely to be IS if it was just some Russian commandos
I don't see an upside for Putin in this. Given how many years he's been in power anything bad that happens falls on him for failing to prevent it, there's hardly anyone else left to blame. He'll probably fire a few people to look as if he's doing something.
they've been known to recruit remotely, I think. and if it was someone from afganistan, i imagine they would source weapons locally. why would the guy go through the trouble/risk of smuggling a rifle and ammo? that makes no sense.
Do we know when and where putin is? Maybe do that with him?
Wasn't that the opening scene to Inception Tenet?
You're probably thinking of Tenet?
Lmao yeah that's exactly what I meant to say. That's what I get for hastily trying to browse my phone at work XD
As if the worst foe of the Islamic state right now is the Russian Federation .. very suspicious especially when many embassies warned their citizens to leave Russia just a week ago because they had Intel about major terror attacks coming to Russia.
The Islamic State has plenty of reasons to hate Russia, such as their continued cooperation with the Assad government and Iran, the Chechen Wars, their military campaigns in Afghanistan... just to name a few. You don't need to be "the worst foe" to be targeted by ISIS, as many of their attacks have shown.
Reminds me of Inglourious Basterds
Very much so!
Are people on Lemmy going to treat these freedom fighters the same way they treat Hamas?
If you attack non military peoples you shall be deemed in the wrong by me. That said, Putin is a military leader to me, so he is an open target.