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No Stupid Questions @lemmy.world
Thorny_Insight @lemm.ee

Do you ever worry that you're secretly a psychopath that unknowingly manipulates people around you?

Someone recently told me that they sometimes feel gaslighted around me because I effortlessly make them question their beliefs and feelings. Hearing that didn't sit well with me, especially since I've been pondering the question in the title for quite some time.

I've always been quite critical of myself and don't consider myself a very nice person. When I discover that someone doesn't enjoy being around me, I don't blame them one bit. It's not like I'm intentionally mean or abusive; quite the opposite, actually. I have very strong morals. However, this includes things like not lying, which means I always speak the truth, even if not everyone likes hearing it. I don't conform to many social norms expected of me.

Despite all of this, I have deep relationships with several people and especially the elderly and for example the parents of my past girlfriends have all liked me a lot. But I can't help but wonder why they don't see me as I see myself. I worry that I'm hiding the true me so well that people don't actually like me, but rather the facade I unknowingly maintain. Then again, a true psychopath probably wouldn't be second-guessing themselves in this manner.

145 comments

  • Well I wasn't going to comment because I thought everyone here was going to say "you're describing everyone we all feel that way" but I guess not haha

    Everything you said in your original post is something I've said when describing myself to my SO or friends. I've been called condescending and I've worked very hard to not be that way. Sometimes when I start hanging out with someone new or get a new coworker I can tell by first impressions they aren't going to like me. Nowadays I can usually turn it around but in the past I would just try not to bother them. People will say "why do you hate me?" and it will catch me off guard because I dont feel that way at all.

    I'm also told I can be very argumentative. I get that less now as I am more aware of it, but people who know me know that I am passionate about my opinions.

    I don't have any advice besides thank people who give you feedback. Being yourself doesn't mean not working on your social skills, they can be trained like anything else. I've definitely learned better habits, I have more and closer friends through years of work and introspection.

    Also you are not a psychopath and there isn't anything wrong with you. Most likely your social type isn't the majority and you have to work a bit harder to gel with the mainstream. Its just something to be aware of. I often feel like my '"true self" is hidden from others, so I try to be as real as possible with my SO and my closest friends.

  • If you worry that you may be a psychopath, you’re not one!

    You’d have framed this question differently. You’d be putting the blame on the other person

    “Why is he/she stupid enough to think I’m gaslighting? Can’t they grow up?”

  • It's good to be self aware and self critical but I think you're over analysing yourself and putting negative labels on you.

    A true psychopath wouldn't care or have the ability to care.

    The way you describe yourself you sound like you're intelligent and insightful, and it's unsurprising you would get on with older people if you're more mature than others of your age.

    You do need to be careful about inadvertently manipulating other people to your way of thinking - anyone needs to be careful of that, but particularly if they're skilled in being persuasive. Just because you can persuade people to your way of thinking does not mean you are always right. I'm able to do the same in real life but have to frequently stop myself and think - it's really important to learn to be open to other positions before you rush in and try to change people's minds.

    Having said all that, that is not "gaslighting". You may need to understand what your friend is saying. It may be that actually you are doing a good thing in persuading them. Or it may be you're inadvertently doing harm.

    Or it may just be that your friend is very impressionable - some people are a bit like pillows - they will take on the opinion of the last person they spoke to much like a pillow takes an indent from the l last head they laid on. That'd be their problem, now yours.

    But you probably need to understand what it is your friend is saying so you can reflect on whether they are right or wrong to blame you.

    Overall though, you seem to take quite a negative view of yourself or are worrying you are a "bad person" (although a psychopath isn't bad, they're just built differently; but obviously that seems bad to a lot of people). The fact you worry about being a psychopath shows you are not one, but also it shows you seem to be feel bad or guilty about who you are. You should explore why that is. As others have said, therapy can be a good way to do that. But having self awareness and a degree of self criticism (within limits) is already a powerful thing; but it can be a bad thing when that is paired with low self esteem.

  • Yeah I absolutely relate to this, but challenging people yo be objective and showing them a new perspective* that is outside of the norm is not gaslighting. Asking someone to question their behavior is not gaslighting. Especially when you are here applying the same reasoning to yourself.

    Gaslighting is intentionally making somebody question their perceivable reality with the intent to manipulate for your own gain. I don't think this applies to philosophical questions of morality unless you are contradicting and forcing your beliefs on them through some type of moral absolutism. I also don't think it applies if you convince someone the closed down shop was a hot dog stand and it was actually a Burger stand so long as you were honestly mistaken. If you keep them in the dark intentionally after learning the truth that would probably be though.

    It is possible also that your definition of truth is too broad and you need to interject some self doubt, since we've all been wrong before, and maybe in that invitation to discuss both possibilities your approach will be refined.

    In line with what others here are saying, I have the same thoughts as you and i got diagnosed with ADHD late, the psychiatrist mentioned I fit multiple criteria for ASD but that ADHD correctly captures most symptoms so we go with that. If possible taking assessments and talking to a profrssional should help cut down on these instances where you assume the worst of yourself.

  • as someone who contemplates my seemingly sociopathic demeanor in general. This is something i think about quite a bit from time to time.

    Personally, i've sort of disassociated from myself and other people in regards to a lot of socialization. In order to explicitly prevent manipulative tendencies from cropping up. Generally i refer to it as giving other people explicit free will in my interactions. That tends to be through pretty vague non descript statements. Though you have to be careful to still say things that you stand behind as well. It's kind of a thing.

    A lot of people would say that's not the correct thing to do. But it is what i do. It makes me feel better about interacting with other people. Also it's sort of a performance art type of thing for me, i can leverage it pretty weirdly to engage in some interesting interactions.

    You should sit down with them and talk to them about it, in a mostly one sided manner (you're trying to see how they feel, not convince them of anything) and also bring up your thoughts about yourself. Gauge where they are, see if they have any similar thoughts on their end that are tangential to yours (do they feel like they easily get gaslit, or that they aren't keen on interacting with very "forward" (for lack of a better word) people. It'll give you a perspective into them, and them a perspective into you.

  • Personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits Wikipedia

    Seems you’re not since in this post you show empathy, remorse, and examining your flaws is anti-egotistical. Though you may think of not conforming to social norms as antisocial behavior, many people do this and put on a “public” facade.

    Though, being “honest to a fault” is a little antisocial depending on how far you take that. Is it just “I never give a lie to a direct question.” Or: Do you always correct people who you know told a lie? Do you interject in stories where a lie has been told? Do you tell people unsolicited truths that are hurtful? Some would consider the latter list of behaviors to be antisocial.

    It’s good to self-evaluate. I know I have some manipulative habits, I definitely lie too easily, sometimes without remorse, but I don’t fit a majority of the markers: I feel immense remorse at certain things, I’m not arrogant, I’m genuinely helpful, not just manipulatively so, etc. I would consider talking more in dept with your friends that want to cut ties or express frustration and hear out their concerns. We all have areas for self improvement, so don’t just yourself too harshly. Maybe as another commenter suggested, go to therapy and see what you can uncover.

  • Everyone manipulates everyone around them unknowingly all the time. Even altruistic behavior exists partly because it makes other people think good things about you.

    Only if you'd stop all human contact would you stop that. We're built to want things (mostly sex+resources) from other people, and we're equipped to get it.

    We also all have "dark" ("psychopathic") thoughts & behaviors that we're hiding, not only from others but also ourselves. Some people embrace them more than others, some people resist them more than others.

    I can suggest The Moral Animal for deeper understanding.

  • As people are saying, a true psychopath might not even question themselves. That said, it is probably a spectrum and we all may have such tendencies - and I mean like 100% of the population, as a shared human condition, to lie somewhere on that spectrum. It seems a good thing to me to examine myself in that manner and maybe dial down, or perhaps even dial up, those things. Especially when others misuse the words, twisting them to suit their own perspectives - e.g. calling someone "unstable" if they want to escape them, the abuser.

    Also there are generational differences, and even generational (and other) traps - e.g. a lot of older MAGA parents in the midwestern USA have been abandoned by their children, who want to do things like "take the vaccine" (which I chose to highlight the discussion since it is a decision involving fully literal life-and-death consequences, plus also likelihood of permanent brain damage, which is what we now know long-covid to be), so in such cases is it truly the children who are being "unstable" and "aggressive" to leave, or rather the fault of the parents who attempt to force their christofacist belief structures onto their children, leaving no room in the latter to have their own thoughts or desires?

    These are complex, weighty matters, and won't be resolved quickly, but are good to think about regardless.

145 comments