Sweden officially joins NATO, ending decades of post-World War II neutrality

Fuck Russian trash.
- lol the tankies downvoted you
  
  Lemmygrad, lemmy.ml and hexbear in shambles.
  
  There are good people in Russia.
  
  It's such a bizarre thing... Communism fell in Russia probably before many of these people were born. But the support the successor state to the Soviet Union, which is an authoritarian kleptocracy, because why? Nostalgia? Ignorance?
  Tankies be weird.
  
  I guess you would call Navalny tankie too
- Fuck Zionist and pro-Putin trash instead!
- Don't be racist. Russian government is to blame, not their people who are constantly oppressed by their government. Russian people are the biggest victims in Ukranian war, lost more lives fighting for some idiot. Some successfully surrendered, but a lot of them are forced to fight and lost their innocent lives in all of this.
  
  Russian people are the biggest victims in Ukranian war,
  Whew lad
  
  Imagine people in the US electing Trump, then 10 years later writing the same thing.
  Russian people are as much at fault.
  Do you know what happened to Musolini? Where are the russian partisans?
  Bunch of cowards.
  They're forced to fight, but not forced to commit atrocities and war crimes that they did.
  "Russian people are the biggest victims" - fuck right off. Just fuck off.

So Poutine wanted to weaken NATO, ends up adding countries, including one that has been neutral for an incredibly long time.
- Sweden has a strong military industry too and Finnland is literally right at Russia's border. Putin is a master strategist.
  
  Dude really read a history book about Hitler fighting a one front war and somehow turning it into a three front war and said “Hold my beer”
  
  Your comment reminded me of this video, highly worth a watch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si9Phc9ArpU
- Your spellcheck outed you as a Canadian
  
  Side note, this is also the French spelling of Putin. So you can eat Poutine while being mad at Poutine (I'll let you guess which is which, unless you're a cannibal then everything goes TBF).
  
  Yeah, and it made me kinda hungry too...
- Cheese curds have nothing to do with this.
  
  You're right, at least cheese curds get thrown out when the go bad. Kinda like what Putin does with critics.
- I never knew the Russian president was actually a Canadian dish in disguise.
  In fact, come to think of it, why don't the Russians simply eat him? If he's that delicious then surely they gotta dig in.
- Yeah, he is either stupid or desperate. It does worry me how centralized power balance in the World has become over US controlling most of the conflicts and countries in the World.
  
  Yeah, he is either stupid or desperate.
  I'll pick the middle option: Putin is high on his own supply.
  The man made it clear that dissent will be met with swift and gruesome consequences. This is a sure-fire recipe for surrounding yourself with yes-men that are not smart enough to get the hell out. And BTW, that's always a career where everyone's last promotion is "pavement inspector", and training starts immediately at an open 6th floor window. So there's some cocky, can't-guage-risk-for-a-damn people mixed in there too. The result is a bunch of decisions from the head-of-state that only make sense between those in his court, and fail to hold up to scrutiny outside those walls.
  
  How is the US controlling conflicts and countries?

Good. Sweden has very strong military capabilities with their Total Defense strategy. They also have very advanced weapons development and a huge defense industry, including their Gripen fighter jets. NATO got a lot stronger today.
- As a Swede I often find myself thankful we don't have the military brainwashing the US has, even though we have a strong military for such a small country. The army stuff is there if you look but if you don't care you don't notice it much, if at all. I'm not invested enough to have a really informed opinion about us joining NATO. But from what I know it'll be a good thing, just being able to help countries more that need it is enough of a reason IMO.
  
  NATO was originally founded so that we'd stop invading each other, which should still hold true today.
  I like to think of most developed nations as young adults. All of us are supposed to be mature, which means no more war. We can just talk about things like responsible adults.
  Sadly, some of these younger fucks still haven't grasped the concept of "don't be an idiot", and we now need NATO for a strong message of "no, you're not going to touch us, there will be consequences". It's a sad thing that we still need to do so, but I'd rather have a large group of friends that I'm sure will have my back if someone would start shit.
  So yes, Sweden joining NATO is a good thing. If anything it will lead to better cooperation and coordination between our countries. Not just in the event of war, but just sharing defense resources and intelligence as well. But the best argument is that we just like you Swedes, and we want to keep hanging out together.
  
  As a Finn, I thought that joining Nato was the last nail in the coffin. After several decades of crawling towards it, we're finally a western civilized country now.
  You swedes were there already for historical reasons though, but very nice to have you in the same military alliance.
  
  Unless you happen to be Russian or some other power seeking to use military aggression, or the threat there of, against Europe or North America, NATO expansion is a good thing for all parties. The larger the alliance, the more viewpoints, training and speciality each nation can provide and there is less gap for something to get through. Ukraine is a perfect example of why this should have happened a long time ago but political will wasn't there.
  Sweden has a lot to offer NATO and vice versa, its certainly self sufficient for its military needs but with the defense guarantee it can now afford to diversity its military a bit more than its used to with not everyone and everything needing to adhere to a total defense doctrine. There won't be any Swedish Expeditionary Forces but Sweden does have some rather unique experience and training it can exchange with its western neighbors and possible get some technology exchange and other material assistance to help shore up the northern borders of NATO. The Baltic Sea becoming a NATO lake just a bonus now if Russia tries to start or continue its usual shit.
  
  This just means that Sweden will have send their troops to fight wars in middle east for oil companies. Russia is hardly capable of attacking Ukraine that is right next to it and has some local support of some Russian citizens. They would never make it to Sweden in the next 100 years. But a lot of lives will be lost in the Middle East in that time.

NATO just got a little Sweder
- Plis stop dö fajting.
  
  But a mööse bit my sister.

Fucking Putin
- Yes. Also blame the members of the security council for preventing the UN being effective in solving global conflicts. Ideally, NATO wouldn't be necessary
  
  Disagree. UN is a diplomacy tool, NATO is a defense organization. Entirely different goals, and if UN was a defense organization something else would have filled the void for diplomacy and you’d say UN wouldn’t be necessary.
  You don’t play diplomacy with your friends. And you cannot get your enemies to sit down if you’re aiming a gun at them. The UN not having teeth is the point.
  
  the un and nato serve two very different and distinct purposes though.
  
  Yeeeaahh, but this is a slightly different beast. Even if the UN had fangs ( you're right there), we're talking about a nuclear dictatorship with visions of conquest here.
- I think this haterred towards Putin blinded most of us to let governments increase their authorariansim. Like in US after 9/11. Of course Putin is dangerous, but he can't even win a war in a small country right next to his. Lost more troops then Ukraine. Meanwhile NATO expansion across the World and US influance is truely scary and unprecedented. Most of the wars in World are started by NATO counties and here we don't hear about is as much.
  All the invasions of Iran, Afganistan, Vietnam, Syria, etc where unjustfied invasions just like Ukraine and in case of Palestine, far worse. Yet, media successfully is pointing our focus on a single war in Ukraine where Russia has made no advencments and is clearly inferior military power. It reminds me of 9/11, when fear from a small group of terrorist gave the government power to spy on all of its citizens, run torture camp in Guantanamo and remove citizens rights one by one.
  
  Ah, yes, the scary defense-only alliance. Purely by design it doesn't have the lawful capacity to do any of the things you said, and single members (US or UK) don't represent it.
  Ah yes, no advancements in Ukraine where 1/3 of the country is under occupier control and in entrenched positions.
  
  I think this haterred towards Putin blinded most of us to let governments increase their authorariansim.
  Don't you think this haterred towards Putin caused by increasing authorariansim of my country's government? Because Putin is fucking head of it.
  Of course Putin is dangerous, but he can't even win a war in a small country right next to his.
  I don't know what is (not) concerning to you, but for me Good Uncle Voenkom that will send me to die in trenches for Stability™ of Putin's yachts is concerning enough.
  
  In what way has the Russian Invasion of Ukraine led to more authoritarianism among NATO member states?
  
  There's a difference between NATO countries and NATO the organisation.
  The United States would be going around the world starting wars regardless of whether it's in NATO or not. Got to feed that industrial military complex
  
  So so dangerous to have a defense alliance. What is this world coming to.
  
  All the invasions of Iran, Afganistan, Vietnam, Syria, etc where unjustfied invasions
  The US has never invaded Iran
  Afganistan was completely justified; the US could not let 9/11 go. Few countries in the world disputed this at the time, even among those unfriendly to the US. You can certainly criticize how it played out--I sure as hell do.
  Vietnam, yeah, not going to argue there
  Syria was a complex 13 way clusterfuck. We supported a specific side against another specific side, mostly with material and air support, and some limited ground support. It's not exactly an invasion, but this is certainly another place where it's more about how it played out than the support in itself.
  
  Iraq was bad so let's let Russia annex any bit of Europe it wants. Checks out. I was vehemently opposed to Iraq. This is not Iraq. Not all wars are the same
  
  Yeah but USA would have done all that with or with out NATO.
  
  Lmfao
  
  Putin doesn't want to win. And actually pretty much everyone benefits from this long standing conflicts. Except for Ukrainians and some dirt poor African nations.
  
  I don't think this deserves the attack, guy speaks their mind, perhaps not from the most knowledgeable position, but I think it's valid nonetheless. There are a lot of arguments being made without really being arguments, more like spoken worries, and I agree with their trepidation, I feel kind of the same way, in that I am wary of the future and not as expediently joyous over the occasion so to speak.
  Also, I felt like when the ~~CEO~~ Prime Minister of Sweden appeared in the House for the State of the Union address to standing ovations felt like we were bringing water and dirt before Xerxes. A half demented, half man half werewolf Xerxes, I have a conspiracy theory that Biden and Trump are the same person. Make of it what you will, the list of US atrocities committed across the world and our common history is a long and dire read, and only seems to get longer every year.
  I'm glad to know that if "someone" invades Sweden the whole planet will go down in a nuclear holocaust, as a deterrent you know, but at the same time we're ironically posed before a problem common to Americans and Swedes alike- when it comes to our choices it's slim pickings.

Putin: If anyone joins NATO there will be dire consequences!
Sweden: Du är inte lika stark som du luktar dumjävel
- Have to add a funny FU to Putin that I saw. Yesterday, a B 52, and a B1B did a flyover of Stockholm escorted by Swedish Gripens
- I went through to the trouble of translating that, and it was worth it.
- Psychiatry. You need it.

Not Post WWII, it's Post Napoleon neutrality, the 6th coalition was the last hurrah of Swedish involvement in continental affairs, and thus the beginning of their extended neutrality in such affairs.
- If you tried to look like you need to visit psychiatrist, you did it well enough

So -- pure curiosity... Which countries could yet still potentially join NATO.
Switzerland doesn't join anything ever, so it's the dark horse. But since everything is done by referendum there, it could change on a dime if the public demanded it.
Austria literally has it in their constitution that they aren't allowed -- but in theory they could change their constitution (unlikely).
Moldova has the whole Transnistria incentive -- but NATO would be shy about that one, because that could potentially immediately put them in hot conflict. However, suppose they backdoored their way in by creating a union with Romania (not impossible, but complicated).
Ireland has been neutral forever -- but the public support for Ukraine is extremely high. So they might even be possible. Higher than Switzerland anyway ;)
Bosnia and Herzegovina is sort of a special case where they're sort of partially engaged already.
Serbia is extremely unlikely while they continue to be extremely contemptuous of everyone. That's fine. Although Kosovo is sort of under NATO protection.
In theory, Georgia or Armenia would be candidates, but Turkey would pooh-pooh Armenia right away, and Georgia has contested territory.
In order of odds, I wager: Ireland, Moldova (via Romania), Georgia+Ukraine (in that order chronologically).
- I'm interested in Ireland too, especially in the next few years as the reunification party is resurgent
  
  Ireland has no chance, people here are extremely pro neutrality to the point there were protests when American Airforce jets refueled here. It's not a case of alignment, it's that nobody wants to get involved in any sort of conflict.
- I was surprised to learn Ireland is not in Nato. They should obviously join asap.
  
  Have you seen their support of Palestinians? They'll never join NATO
- Basically any country that was a previous Russian/Soviet satellite and are not interested in being one anymore.
- Ukraine
- Personally, I see no reason why ever nation couldn't join NATO at some point.
  I expect "clever" dipshits to be like "NORTH ATLANTIC", though.
  
  Nothing clever needs to be invoked. It's baked into the text of the treaty. Article 5 is what's invoked to bring the whole alliance together to defend against an attack on any one member. However, Article 6 limits Article 5 to attacks within Europe, North America, Turkey, and islands in the Atlantic north of the Tropic of Cancer. Strictly speaking, even an attack on Hawaii wouldn't invoke it.
  I guess countries outside that area could join, but without a change to the treaty, the key clause in the whole thing wouldn't apply to them.
  
  Maybe they don't want to die in middle east for US oil companies.
- I thought Switzerland condemned Israel?
  
  Never in a million years would Switzerland condemn Israel. The state loves Israel. Maybe a strongly worder "please don't kill children in hospitals" was said, but no measures whatsoever were taken
- To Nato
- A lot of countries from your list are already very close with NATO, they have NATO offices in their top military command and do most of the military exceraises with NATO. NATO also has a lot of officers of these countries on their paycheck, even some biggest presidentail candidates in these countries are NATO generals.
  NATO has a huge control over the netural governments, only reason they don't join is because of their populations that don't like NATO countries invading middle east for oil. Mostly in the Balkans that is the case and some of the countries that joined, they did it without referendums against the will of their people. There is a big sentiment of NATO looking imperialistic and treating middle east and the balkans as colonies. Bosnia for example, doesn't even have real independence, high representitve placed by the west, from the UN can veto anything that is not in their interest. "So far, all of the High Representatives named have been from European Union countries, and their principal deputies have typically been from the United States"

Zapp: What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
- Tell my wife I said…hello
  
  Sings: "Did I tell you lately, that I'm neutral...!"

Good. Cry some more Russia.
- Tears of a clown plays
- Don't be so blinded by your hatered towards the Russian government to not notice how US used this to strenghten their control over Europe. As horrible as this Russian invasion is, it is nothing compared to the decades of invasions in middle east done by NATO countries. Sweden will have to send their troops now to fight for US oil companies.
  
  Lol, okay, guy.
  
  They would get less hatred if they stopped invading their neighbors.
  
  You must really like the taste of russian boots, jfc.

Welcome Sweden! It's good to have you
- If feels peculiar. Like when you are the little brother of some guy and he brings you into their club and you become like their mascot or something.

Vikings with axes have joined the conversation...
- 90% of Sweden are migrants
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Sweden
  Church of Sweden and no Religion account for 91% of all swedes. Immigrants with a different religion don't even account for 10%

it's amazing the chain of effect that happened when putin got so bold that he got orban to not only side with ukraine but also drop opposition to finland joining nato which caused sweden to join

Russia fucked up so badly LOL.

NEUTRALITY! HUH! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?
- Not much if you're left to defend yourself against a dictator who likes playing land grab and takes any excuse to rape murder and torture to subjugate as a valid excuse.
  Look, I hate war as much as the next guy, but you gotta be pragmatic here. Putin is NOT a nice guy, to make an understatement. Without Putin's in this world, we wouldn't need wars, but here we are...
  
  Sometimes standing up for principles and what's right supersedes pragmaticism. Surely you get what it means to have ideals.
- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
  
  The only reply worth reading lmao
- Getting picked off piecemeal by warmongers
  
  Good god y'all!
  
  This has happened exactly zero times in the one thousand year history of Sweden. Except for when the Danes came, but they got disposed of.

Technically it's not "post-WWII neutrality", since this specific neutrality began when Sweden declared its neutrality in September 1939, which isn't after WWII, but pre/during.

Is this good or bad, I'm dumb
- Good for NATO, good for Sweden, good for Europe, good for Ukraine, probably good for the Russian people. Bad for specifically Vladimir Putin.
  NATO is basically a mutual-defense treaty: all member states agree to fight on behalf of other members if attacked by a third party. Having Sweden in the organization means that there are more soldiers available if other members are attacked (good for NATO), it means that Sweden has allies if they're attacked (good for Sweden), and it means that Europe is more united as a defensible whole (good for Europe). And it reduces the possible targets for Putin's aggression (probably good for the Russian people, definitely bad for Putin). It also means that, once the war in Ukraine ends and they join NATO, they essentially cannot be attacked by Russia again (good for Ukraine).

Ramping up for WW3 on schedule.
- It’s wild watching all the “human entropy” build up at the same time to hit in a really shitty fruition of shittiness. Religious conflict and genocide in Gaza, hottest planet records month after month, Russia/china/North Korea building up for WW3, a massive rise in fascism across western nations, with a culmination in this year’s US presidential election, unprecedented corporate profits as inflation skyrockets, AI companies abandoning ethics for financial gains as the LLMs rapidly grow in capability
  It’s like Murphy’s law hitting the planet all at once, we’d just need some new COVID super strain to hit right as WW3 kicks off to be the cherry on top
  
  Sell all of your assets and build a self-sufficient ranch on New Zealand. Looking at WW3 projections it's going to be one of the places untouched by a nuclear war and won't feel the effects of a nuclear winter as harsh as other places. Hmm, it looks like that the billionaires building their doomsday bunkers at New Zealand has the same idea.
  
  I think Covid actually delayed it! I don’t think we will be as “lucky” if a second round comes.
- NATO is strictly a defensive alliance so any power that did start WW3 would be pretty damn stupid to be aggressive against NATO. And better for everyone this way, rather than give Russia a chance to chew up Eastern Europe country by country like they tried against Ukraine, Georgia and Chechnia.
  
  NATO is defensive only on paper. Almost all of the wars in the World right now started with invasion of NATO countries in middle east and african countries still unofficaly under collonial rule of western european countries.
  This is classic case of fearmongering. Russia can't even win a war in Ukraine, despite local support of some of the Crimean citizens and proximity to their nations. They can't get to Sweeden by the end of this century, Meanwhile, NATO is the biggest war allience this World has ever seen and it is scary how centralized the power in the World has become and US oil companies running the whole show.

Sad news... A totally destroyed country won't bring us nothing good
- What does this even mean? Ukraine wanted to join nato, but didn't because Russia threatened them and so they dropped it. And Russia invaded anyway. Had they been part of nato Russia wouldn't have touched them.
  
  Sweden is the black hole of Europe. They can only offer migrants
- Lol that you think Sweden is destroyed.