They say use whatsapp, they say use zoom

Oh, wait until you get a job in most offices. Microsoft, Microsoft everywhere.
BYOD with Linux? "We can't install the company's spyware on it, get that security risk out of here."
- I mean they're not wrong, BYOD is an absolutely ginormous attack vector.
  
  If an organisations' security relies on the end device configuration there is no security.
  
  For the user or the company? Assuming the user isn't a moron with computers?
  Edit: guess im out of the loop as a contractor who generally only does BYOD with my linux machine
- When you're supporting ten thousand machines on four continents and confirming to twenty different data protection doctrines the last thing you need is some neckbeard rocking up demanding to store data in their unauditable homebrew fork of Haiku or some shit.
  
  What is achieved with GPOs and agents is compliance, not security.
  In other words, company issued devices don't protect the data, but they ensure conformity with relevant regulations and standards. Which is what most organisations actually care about.
  Many good IT people really do care about actual information security, but not those in charge.
  The result are devices that hinder some people's work but provide questionable actual security.
- Look! A Linux user! SCATTER, BEFORE HE CATCHES YOU!!
- What if their OS choices aren't insane?
  
  Im all for privacy and obviously working where you want to but like really? Your unwilling to take a position if the desktop/laptop you use only for work doesn't have an OS that's acceptable? Regardless of pay/perks/etc you wouldn't take a position where everything is perfect except you have to use their specified OS? This is genuine curiosity hopefully this doesn't come accross as me trying to say I doubt you or your not entitled to your opinions but I just don't get it, curious to understand why. What industry do you work in? It makes sense if a certain OS could make your job harder but I would be more worried about being able to use software that I want rather than OS at least at my current position.

I am so looking forward to my daughters to become students. Definitely going to discuss this topic through with every person I have to. I am so not going to use WhatsApp or whatever similar software again. If there’s no other solution, they can call me or write a letter :D
- Yeah but if you don't have brightwheel or seesaw or whatever the fuck, you won't be getting important notifications. They only only call when you're late for pickup or your kid shit so bad you have to take them home. Some of these are tied to billing as well. Don't want to use My School Bucks? No aftercare or cafeteria breakfast/lunch. Sack lunch only.
  It's a huge pain but in many cases there's no way around it.
  I'm aware the original subject matter of this post is different, but the walled garden apps that you have to use no matter what start as soon as they enter preschool
  
  I don’t know any of these apps and I don’t know if they are used in Europe too, but if I really have to use some of these apps (and I understand that can absolutely happen), there will be an old/cheap phone laying around with these apps installed, they won’t be on my primary phone.
- In Europe Whatsapp is the default messaging system. Everything else is cumbersome. Sure Signal is better but only like 3 people have it.
  
  Do what I did and send a message to everyone you care about saying "deleting whatsapp and switching to signal" or something like this.
  It's also a good way to weed out people who aren't important in your life, I.e people who care about you will most likely install signal to keep in touch.
  
  Telegram is the best. Whatsapp copies everything from it.
- /subscribe

Just wait until you enter the workforce and your company gives you a locked down work computer.
The joys of getting special permission from the IT department so that you can install a browser other than the ancient version of Internet Explorer (no, not Edge) that came preloaded.
- Much better than having to use my own devices.
  
  Absolutely. I'm convinced that any company that asks employees to use their own devices simply doesn't understand cybersecurity.
  Best case would be giving employees a choice of hardware and software from a list of compatible products, but of course that's expensive and more work for the business so it seldom happens.
- I am going to physics feild and hopefully I will use linux there(NASA does)
- I’m going through this after my work was bought out. They forced us onto their locked down computers, and they’re so locked down we literally can’t do our work on it. Execs are trying to come up with a solution, thankfully at least for now they’ve gotten corporate to agree to let us use our old laptops until they do. I think mostly because we’re extremely high value low cost, so if we’re not working, they’re losing a lot of money.
- As long as it isn't my computer, I don't care.
  I remote to all our windows machines from my Linux box which is fine with me. They can lock down their computer, I am just supposed to use what they give me. They pay me, they put the malware on their own machines, so.... whatever.

Such a waste of public resources, to not develop (or fund) free and open tools for everyone, instead of paying for temporary licenses for closed software.
- Public money public code
- Well, we have tor

Yeah some of my University classes mandated the use of this "Lockdown Browser" last year. Pretty sure it's just spyware that, conveniently, can render HTML
- It's actually a rootkit on Windows which is the worst part.

If they want you to use WhatsApp they can provide you with a device to use it on, then at least it's completely isolated from your own data and can't do too much harm.
- Ok, but this is reality, and in reality schools don't give a fuck about these subjects, third world country schools at least.
  
  Btw oficially, in my state, schools use their own forked version of ubuntu (KITE Ubuntu), spevifically designed for school use and has foss programs installed and syllabus teaches only that. But still, since the online class started in 2020, google meet, whatsapp and all of them are "required" by students. The problem is that none of the schools or teachers actually knows why "free software only" in schools were introduced
  
  They don't give a fuck in first world schools as well
  
  So what do they do when you say "I don't have a smartphone"?

For me it's family and friends wich refuse to switch from whatsapp to signal for example
- Fuck WhatsApp. All my homies use Signal.
  
  Sadly all my homies still use WhatsApp. So it's though for me to switch.
- They don't even have to switch just install it, I have multiple clients for different people and it doesn't really effect me negatively other than remembering what to message people on
  
  Sadly my friends won't even do that. Don't know about family but knowing them they also probably won't. I expect rhem to not even understand why i want to switch

What's easier from the teacher/teachers representative, use 1 widely distributed app, or download 100 different messaging programs/interfaces and make sure every student knows the proper channels to contact every other student?
There will always be someone unhappy, let's try to keep that from being the person who has to do this dance day in and out for the rest of their underfunded lives?
- Fine, use one app but make it the Free Software one, then.
  Regardless, it is completely unreasonable to dictate that people consent to onerous third-party corporate terms of service in order to access government services, especially ones enforced by truancy laws!
  
  And from their perspective, these requirements change every day!
  They want something convenient
- I want to agree Meta's terms of service to get education?
  Schools should use a free software messenger instead so that no one is forced to run untrusted apps on their device.
- There will always be someone unhappy, but let's make them unhappy with mild annoyances and not serious privacy violations. I'd rather prefer the Whatsapp users to be unhappy than the Signal users. In a long run it's doing them a favor.
- Ours just use email
- 100 different messaging programs/interfaces
  It's like four or five. We did this back in the late 90s. Some people used AIM. Some used Yahoo Messenger. Some used ICQ. And some used MSN. We survived.
  It was such a common thing that multi-protocol clients like Trillian were popular.
  
  You really want your teachers to read your cryptic emo away messages on written with papyrus?
  
  We survived
  Reach for the stars!

At the place I work at, we all are given Azure Virtual Desktops, which we use for everything. I'm working remotely from another country, so there is damned input lag too. Copy/paste, any data transfer is disabled too.
The worst part is we need to use "Remote Desktop" app to connect to our VMs, and it is available for EVERY platform except linux. Like they got browser client, windows, mac os, android, iOS. BUT NOT FOR LINUX. So I use VirtualBox to open windows machine, and use that to connect to VM.
This is sad :(
- You could try out the Remmina Linux client's RDP plugin.
- This is their choice not to configure it correctly. You can set up Azure RDP and use Remmina as a front end to FreeRDP or just FreeRDP by itself.
  Also why are they using a browser "client"? That is also an odd configuration. You don't need a special client. I use Firefox on Linux (with a container - love those) to connect to the Azure Desktops.
  I do all my windows work from a Linux machine. Recently I traveled to another country and did all my clients Windows (Azure remote desktops) work from a Steam Deck (Arch linux), lol.
  
  wow. I'll look into this, but last time I tried, that VM discovery thing made it unavailable to setup on linux. The remote desktop app shows available VMs after you authenticate with MS account. This most likely is done deliberately to prevent us from using linux.

I had the same problem here. I solved it by using an app (Element) that gave you the ability to use all messaging apps (WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal) in one. Then I stopped using it because you can't make video calls or listen to some audio messages.
- But you have to setup a custom synapse bridge for element right ? Or did you find public servers ?
  
  Yes! You have to set custom bridge Especially for Whatsapp, you have to set the bridge that expires every 15 days, so on the 15th day, you have to re-download Whatsapp in order to reconnect the bridge. For what you are referring to, the public server stuff there is matrix that is the Element messaging system

it's ok just make the account, everyone is using it
🥲
- My son's school created an MS account for him, for christ's sake! In 1st grade...
  
  What the fuck

To work or study at my Univ, you have to give your phone number to Microsoft for the 2fa. They pay shitload of money for Office 365 and they are almist forcing us to use that stupid suite. This year I will give an special course on FOSS alternative to my students. Fuck that bullshit hail corporate.

Decentralised solutions will never be broadly accepted. People care about comfort and ease to use and centralized companies wiill always have the edge in this.
- I don't necessarily need decentralised solutions. I just need free software solutions. There is much comfort and ease in apps like signal
- What about when being centralized allows the quality of the product to suffer?

I almost cried when they told me AutoCAD was only available on windows.
- In my school we use LibreCAD :)
  
  @starman @Blastasaurus, when i went to school we used paper, ruler and pencil (FOSS)
  
  Librecad is great.

Best option, use graphene and keep the propriety stuff on a separate user profile.
There is also a WhatsApp to go on F-droid . So you need an account then you can use the webapp on the phone.
But yea stuff like that sucks.
- I actually wanted to see how Graphene works so I was going to install it on my old pixel 3a, but it's no longer maintained. You know where I can get the last release images for the 3a?
  
  Not sure unfortunately , I should have a copy somewhere actually but hey don't trust me. I would expect them to have them archived somewhere as well. You could check out the matrix chat and ask there. https://matrix.to/#/!UVEsOAdphEMYhxzTah:grapheneos.org?via=matrix.org&via=tchncs.de&via=nitro.chat
- You're assuming they have a google pixel, also the grapheneos founder isn't trustworthy
  If you use discord on a seperate user profile, you're still using discord, they still get your data. Sandboxing isn't a perfect solution
  The correct thing is to refuse, it is your (or your parents) legally owned hardwarw and they can not control it. They can't force you to sign privacy policies
  The fact that people are saying to comply with what your school says saddens me
  
  Louis Rossmann still recommends GrapheneOS to this day. The drama of a programmer shouldn't extend to the quality of the (FOSS) code itself.
  With FOSS, trust simply isn't necessary. Anyone can verify the functionality of the code.
  
  He have stepped down since march this year I believe. No need to trust , verify. He was a bit of a removed but that doesn't mean GOS is not trustworthy. Sandboxing on a separate profile ( truee separate which you only get on grapheneOS) combine with VPN , blocklist (VPN or DNS) and no gapps . Not that much. Especially if you run enterprise versions of apps. In EU it wouldn't be legal.
  Depends on your leverage here. But best to change school policy here. In many countries it would not be possible to force people to install WhatsApp or other programs on personal devices. Otherwise they have their own software or use email. Another thing if they provide the hardware.

Your school wants you to use Whatsapp?
- Mine too, but it wasn't forced on me. All of my classmates use whatsapp but not having too deal with all the needless stuff on there is great in my opinion
- WhatsApp has replaced text messaging in a lot of countries. Even banks use WhatsApp
- Important notifications, informing holidays, events special classes, and all communications go through whatsapp.
  Also sometimes online/video class links are posted there

"It's preparing you for the real world"
Force quits stupid company app

What is digital sovereignty?

Refuse. They can't force you to use it. If they want you to use discord, say you only use matrix. If they want you to use chromeos, say you only use GNU/Linux
- They can’t force you to use it.
  No, but they can fail you for not participating in required class exercises.
  
  They can't punish you for not accepting a EULA
- A school can absolutely force you to use software?
  
  No? It's not their hardware and even if it was they can't force you to use that hardware. I'm not sure about the laws around it but I do know schools can't force you to agree to contracts (such as EULAs)
  
  They can't but i might want to stop schooling
- Yes, yes they can
- I can't refuse because i have to use solidworks

bro sooo true, not to mention gmail as well

It's the same with work tbh... Lots of companies have big contracts with Red Hat but the only option for their employees is Windows.
I understand the logic behind it, but it still feels dumb.