Twinsies

so the rich can have big toys
It should say "so the rich can control literally every aspect of your life"
- I mean, society is just a toy to them.
- Plus, horde wealth like dragons just for the sake of feeding their addiction to more. I suspect going from having a billion dollars to having 100 million dollars would have a negligible impact on their quality of life or their toys. It's just a few less zeroes on their bank account or stock portfolio, but those zeroes are so goddamn important to them.
  
  More than dragons. The richest dragon that you can run into in D&D or Pathfinder will be a Chaotic Evil Red Ancient Wyrm. If you got to them before they start eating their hoard, they will have at most 3-5 million gold pieces. Let's go for the high end of that. That's 500,000 oz of gold. That comes out to $1,041,345,000. So even the absolute greediest personification of greed, rarely, if ever, manages to break a billion dollars of wealth, and that takes them 10,000 years to amass.
  These assholes are literally greedier than dragons.
- No one is taking their big toy, we are just saying having 100 of that big toy probably isn't necessary.
  
  Im saying take their big toys. Rich people should not exist. If people want big toys, bring the whole world up to the standard of having them.
  
  Imo they can have all the toys they want, just let the rest of us have housing, food, and water. That doesn't sound like too much to ask, and yet here we are.

I eye roll when I see the undecided voters for this election. If you're saying you're still undecided on Trump, you're full of shit
- Undecided just means ashamed of how they are going to vote.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_factor
- Aren't centrist voters mainly going to vote for Biden? Aren't leftist voters the ones threatening not to vote Biden because he is too far too the right from their perspective?
  
  Anyone who won't vote Biden cause he's too far right is a god damn idiot. If you're leftist, why would you want Trump to win? If you want to save Palestine why would you help Biden lose to Trump, who will surely help Netanyahu stomp and toss Palestine into the waste bin of history.
- Hey, as a non-USA person, out of sincere curiosity... He was already your prez. There was no doomsday, your country did not dissappear into ashes, "all your rights" were not stripped away. Didn't get to war with anyone, which, for your country, is definitely a first. Sure, he is a loud mofo, and talks a lot of shit.
  Why does everyone on lemmy/reddit make it sound like he will bring the end days and all that stuff continuosly?
  
  Hey, also non-USA person.
  If you're genuinely not aware of the empowerment of nationalist and racist views around the entire world simply due to Trump's rhetoric from the platform of POTUS then you're either living under a rock or intentionally disingenuous.
  Sure, the USA didn't literally start wars or commit any new genocides during his presidency, but that was never the point. If one promise was kept by Trump it was that attention would turn inward to the US's own affairs, and boy did they ever. A stacked supreme court, an enraged nationalist voter base that refuses to accept defeat, the systematic erosion of personal rights one state at a time targeting the most vulnerable populations.
  If you think any of those things would've happened under any other president, or that they don't have any spillover effects to other countries, then I have a really neat suspension bridge in California I'd like to sell you.
  The groundwork is laid, and accepting the follow-up just because round one wasn't the literal end of the world is short-sighted to the point of absurdity.
  
  A million people died from COVID because he encouraged anti vax conspiracies. He pulled the USA out of the Iran Nuclear deal. His Supreme Court picks rolled back abortion rights. His cabinet was full of grifters who sabotaged public services like the post office or the dept of education.
  He did lots. I'd like him to never do anything again.
  
  He wants to end what little democracy the US has. He was unwilling to peacefully transfer power to Biden, and his followers tried to stage a coup. His plan to turn the US into a dictatorship is public; it's called Project 2025.
  
  It's not that hard to look this stuff up. It's reported pretty much all the time and is on here quite a lot. He's basically a fascist or he would be if he could spell the word.
  Also if the USA is going to insist on having an elderly old fart as president I would like them to have at least some of their brain cells firing and it would be desirable if they actually had more than four IQ points to begin with.
  
  I think the children in cages was pretty bad. Then it got worse.
  
  http://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
  I'll just leave this here.
  
  He only had 4 years, and at the end caused an insurrection. Life got a lot tougher here after him, because he gave the green light for all the nasties to worm out of the woodwork. He increased tensions so badly, a second civil war is no longer ludicrous. That's not even counting how much worse it got for women BEFORE Roe v Wade was overturned. We haven't yet finished reaping what he sowed.
  I'm not sure the US could survive another 4 years.
  
  Wow, the downvote brigade is out in force!

The leftist position looks more like the centrist pov to me.
- Only because our nation's Overton window is skewed so hard right that the general populace thinks common centrist concepts from other countries are radical left.
  I mean just look at how most of the country thinks of Universal Healthcare which is the default in most developed countries and not even considered that particularly progressive.
- Is: The rich should be lined up, stripped naked, and guillotined. Closer?
  
  Most of us don't feel that way and would be happy with just reasonable market and industry regulation.
  Me personally? Yeah eat the rich.
  
  I don't think most people seriously have an issue with people making large sums of money. The problem is when they make so much money they essentially control the world and can commit all the crimes they want.
- Your idea of leftism is screwed then

I just need a place to rant...
I hold a few "enlightened centrist" types in high regard, and the opinions I always hear from them are "Yeah, Trump is a lunatic (butsoisbiden™), but the rest of the Republican party is fine." While Trump is openly planning to replace the entire RNC chair with virtually zero pushback.
What the fuck am I missing here?
The example in the meme is rage-baity, but it's not wrong when these people are being willingly ignorant at best.
If anyone thinks Trump doesn't pull some shit in office, and either him or his replacement (due to age/health, not conspiracy) don't try to hold on to power by even less democratic means than we already have... You're not paying attention. The dude has told us this is what he's going to do.
Yeah, the governments got problems... But handing the keys to a man that has proven time and time again that he has no regard for the will of the people... Shit's bad, but I -promise you- it isn't that bad.
As far as the trials being political... Yeah, they are. But the crimes were real. And how can we demand our politicians be bound by the law, but protest the first time one actually gets prosecuted?
This is high profile, and millions are watching. Set the precedent. And -we- have to create a culture of holding them accountable after this.
Genuinely asking though... What am I missing?
- People who say the rest of the Republicans are fine are also just wilfully ignorant or intentionally misleading. They're the ones who voted Trump in to begin with and he wasn't ever hiding who he truly was so they don't have the excuse that they didn't see this coming.
  
  It's almost like they're looking in the mirror saying "I, the rest of Republicans, am fine" like they want to sleep at night after sentencing people unlike them to death
  
  I agree. I watched a Hillary debate for the first time the other night... The signs were there, ffs.
  
  There is a third option, which is a right wing strategy im seeing more and more:
  They cherry pick.
  Basically when someone says the rest of the republicans are fine, they might mean there are a couple that are normal in isolation.
  This tactic works the other way too. When they criticize the left, it’s the small, loud minority that are much easier to debate (with a cherry picked audience).
  I have never, ever, heard a right wing person criticize or attack things like worker rights, consumer rights, or desiring equality. They know they can’t. They only pick battles they can win and extrapolate from that.
- A lot of the lowest-rung, easiest targets for ridicule are those who are very loudly, uncritically on one side of an argument or another. People who are of middling intelligence correctly identify this as an opportunity for themselves to demonstrate that they are very clever and superior by taking the piss out of the silliest of the left and the right. This leads to Enlightened Centrism™.
  This works phenomenally well until they meet someone who has genuine convictions based on their own individual morals and rationale and not how they can differentiate themselves from others.
  This is my own slightly bitter, slightly drunken, leftist rant. My own bitter POV is that Enlightened Centrism is a shortcut to smug emotional and intellectual superiority for those who can't come up with their own convictions.
  
  It also reinforces privilege, so it's a double feedback loop
- What the fuck am I missing here?
  I keep coming back to 'inability to entertain the hypothetical'.
  It seems that many people can not conceive of something that they have not personally experienced. They can not entertain the hypothetical situation of Trump taking over the party simply because it has not happened yet. They can not conceive of a dictatorship simply because it has not happened yet. It's mind boggling to me that people can't entertain the hypothetical, but it's what I keep coming back to.
  
  I think to be conservative a person can't have sympathy or empathy. Can't picture themselves in the situations of others. They are the center of the universe. Everyone else is just not as good or as smart as they are because they think different thoughts
  
  Just more evidence that a good chunk of humanity is neither rational nor observant.
  Natural selection has been put on hold by how completely we have dominated our environment and the foolish and ignorant aren't being weeded out any more.

Was there ever a time where both sides were basically like that Futurama bit about the 2 cent titanium tax? Cuz ever since I've been able to vote, it's been a pretty clear difference.
- I think in 2000 the joke was that Bush and Gore were the same, maybe someone can comment.
  RATM Testify https://youtu.be/Q3dvbM6Pias
  
  Which was some white left bullshit even back then, anyone who says they genuinely believe Gore would have been exactly the same as Bush is either lying or young enough to get away with not knowing what they're talking about.

The left let's throw more money at the problem.
The right let's take money away from people and then try and bully people out of being the problem.

I just want to say that I watched John Oliver today talk about those messaging scams that start with, "Hey Elaine, it's Mary. Are we still on for golf?"
And I then found out that Americans have lost around 3 billion dollars to that scam.
My first thought was, "those people shouldn't be allowed to vote."
- I have something to tell you. Everyone is susceptible to scams. We're social creatures, my dude. It's part of the arrangement. Trust, the ability to trust, that's the built-in weakness to that.
  
  I gotta be honest, I'm surprised by the response. I'm talking about this one scam in particular. It's so dumb to me. Maybe because I'm older; fuck texting just call me generation, or what. People been scamming people forever. It's not new. So to me, it's got to be less about trust and more about desperation.
  
  Also, thinking that you can't be scammed makes you more of a mark, not less.
- And he said "that's just in the US" because it does happen everywhere. You know? Western Europe where half the population votes for autocrats too?
  
  WHY IS THIS OKAY TO YOU

What's funny is that not adhering to leftist dogma is considered "enlightened centrist" now. So much that being a liberal is viewed negatively on a lot of places here on Lemmy.
- Are we talking classical liberal or magahat speech liberal?
- What leftist dogma do liberals reject?

- But this view of the world is objectively incorrect at basically any scale observable, so why engage with it?
  Moreover, if you zoom in, even conservatives appreciate charity within their own community as a positive trait, and see selfishness or callous indifference within their community as a negative trait. If you can have empathy for a starving child who attends your church, but not for one who attends a different church, all that means is that you have a very narrow view of where your community ends.
  Most reasonable people see this as the former case - selfishness and callous indifference, leading them to conclude that the boundaries being drawn around the conservative community are, in fact, based on prejudice, and not any kind of internally consistently morality.
- You basically just said, "No we don't hate the poor! We just believe in the just world fallacy (A philosophy which inherently contempts the poor)!"
- Several of my family members are very right wing, and they've pretty much all made it clear that they think anyone who doesn't work exactly as hard or harder than they do deserves to be put out in the streets.
  I love everyone in my family but it's pretty difficult to rationalize that way of thinking. This is why we don't discuss politics at family gatherings lol
- Whaaaaaa bigots are bigots because marginalised people weren't nice enough to them!!11 🤢
  (hint: blaming systemic problems on individuals is never the answer, especially when the individuals you blame are the only ones calling out said system. Bigots are bigots because it benefits those in power for society to be as divided as it is, and as long as that is the case, no amount of coddling will fix the problem, it only makes a handful of bigots a little more comfortable, while the rest continue as they were)
- posts like this are always grating and show a general lack of understanding of how the average right wingee thinks.
  ~~But I am literally asking for perspective here...
  And you didn't address anything I said, and a lot of things I didn't.~~
  Edit: My bad, thought this was a reply to my comment.
- I think a big part of this issue is conflating of terms. We see it all the time. There's a big difference between conservative citizens and conservative politicians. People don't differentiate which one they're talking about, leaving the reader to assume the wrong one, and therefore the op must not know what they're taking about.

The only time I think I ever equate the left and the right is that both sides have gotten increasingly tribalist, which this meme ironically proves.
I guess the other time I equate the left and right is in that both sides are very reluctant to hold their politicians accountable for fear of losing to the other side (which is also a result of that tribalism) - even though the left is more willing to say Biden isn't great, they're still giving the DNC a free pass because Trump is worse, and rather than recognising that this election is really Biden's to lose (he just needs to actually tone down on the things that his voter base doesn't like), they're blaming the conscientious objectors who choose to vote their conscience for not being a part of their tribe.
The enlightened centrist meme is a similar issue, where acknowledging any of this qualifies you as being outside of either tribe and therefore also a liability in this game. If it helps, I'm not American and can't vote in your election anyway, so chill out a bit - I'm not losing your election for you (whichever side you're on).

Centrists say the left bit and ask how they are going to do it?
Modern leftists suggest we eat them and when the centrists suggest that might be a little over the top they are villified.
- Yep, because leftists never suggest just taxing them more, it's always people very seriously and literally saying to eat the rich.
  
  Wait, there are other ways to improve society without resulting to cannibalism?
  Why did nobody say so? I’ll see you all tomorrow when we start enforcing this new brilliant idea of just taxing them.
- I think actually you're just listening to the wrong people claiming to be moderate left when in reality they're insane.
  Centralism is the very definition of not having an opinion. It's running away from the responsibility of having a coherent thought that you have come to on your own. They are as bad as political extremists although somehow even more smug.
  
  Centralism can be more then not having an opinion. You can lean differently depending on the topic
  I'm probably just a bit jaded from seeing so much American politics online

Republican President: Fuck the black, brown, red, and yellow people. Bomb them.
Democrat President: Fuck the black, brown, red, and yellow people. Bomb them.
Rational person: this is what we are talking about.

Leftists continuously voting geriatric centrists into office
- Voting them into office sure, but not nominating them.
  
  Here's the actual problem: no one cares about supporting younger Democrats. They have no base. AOC only won because she has a base of actual supporters in the Bronx.
  No, your edgy posts online don't matter. Who are you actually supporting? Name them. Not presidential candidates, who are you supporting at the state or local level?
  The answer is crickets because young people have forgotten how to participate in democracy besides yelling slogans (right or left) and upvoting memes. Literally who do you support that is currently running for office?
- as if this is the fault of the leftists, lol

The left: wealth is a zero sum game
The right: 🤦‍♂️no, it’s not
- Sorry I don't understand. Which policies of the right support what you're suggesting?
  
  The imaginary ones.
  
  Trickle down economics is based on philosophy that wealth is positive sum
  
  My comment is about philosophy, not policy.
  The idea that rich people are rich because poor people are poor is a leftist idea. It assumes wealth is a finite thing, which must be taken away from one party to accumulate with another.

My team: Perfect angels
Your team: Evil monsters
yawn
- Democrats: Neo-liberals
  Republicans: Fascists
  Wake up! Project 2025 Policy
  This book is an invitation for you the reader—Mr. Smith, Mrs. Smith, and Ms. Smith—to come to Washington or support those who can. Our goal is to assemble an army of aligned, vetted, trained, and prepared conservatives to go to work on Day One to deconstruct the Administrative State.
  
  I agree that Republicans are fascists. Everyone does. My problem is with framing the left as perfect angels.

Man, that low IQ but high effort required to try to demonize people closest to the center. Lol!
I guess all ~~people~~ domestic terrorists in the center must believe the left and the right are both correct. Wait... both incorrect..? Correct about some things and not others or vice versa..? Wait which is it again?
Tell ya what , why don't you whingers from the fringes just throw some more "high quality memes" at it till you got it all figured out.
Seems like a great use of your time and then both you lefties and righties can bond about their common enemy, ~~people~~ Satan's Minions in the center, you know, like the way twins would bond over it.
🤡 show.
- I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."
  -MLK
  
  I tend to distrust anyone quoting this, mostly because they're often the exact same kind of all talk no action white politics preacher, just from a self proclaimed leftist position of feeling morally righteous about both sides being the same instead of a self proclaimed centrist position of feeling apathetic about both sides being the same.
  Fundamentally the same kind of take that can only possibly come from a place of privilege, just in a different coat of paint.
- Seems like a great use of your time
  You wrote a lengthy rant because a meme hurt your feelings. I don’t think you should be lecturing anyone about using their time productively.
  
  Feelings hurt, eh? You don't really know how things work, do you bud?
- Why defensive? How about sharing which policies you like?
  
  Lol. For yourself, and others not paying attention, here's a recap.
  The original post here isn't actually about any particular policy, it's about trying to throw shade at people from the center, and possibly imply some/all the woes of the world are the fault of centrist. Some might consider it offensive, or somewhat of an attack. A lot or a little, doesn't matter, an attack none the less.
  Then I posted to show how people who choose to blame people with more centered views are, in fact, dipshits. Monkeys flinging shit instead of taking any kind of real action to change what they feel is wrong in society. And I'll add, probably too frightened to actually take their true enemy head-on, and so then naively thinking that a centrist would somehow be more likely to roll over and agree, the easier fight. A hilariously misguided thought.
  And after my internet comment, a reply to an attack on a select group of society, the Einsteins come out of the woodwork and ask genius questions like, "wHy deFenSiVE?"
  It's pretty comical 😆
- John Cleese said it best:
  https://youtu.be/HLNhPMQnWu4
  
  😆 brilliant