Open Letter to Tim Cook: Sabotaging Web Apps Is Indefensible

The company said cutting off PWAs was part of an effort to comply with the Digital Markets Act, arguing browsers other than its own Safari software would expose users to security and privacy risks that were not permitted under the law.
They are so full of shit, it's unbelievable! Are they really claiming that their own browser is THE ONLY legal browser there is?!
- It's blatant anti-competitive behavior and anybody who cares about antitrust should be outraged about this and similar efforts. Getting legal protection for such decisions is nothing but regulatory capture.
- Yes.
- Don't they already force every browser on their app store to use the safari engine because "security"?
  
  @ICastFist
  Yes, however the EU enacted new regulations to put a stop to that practice, so that Apple will be required to allow other browsers on their platform.
  Disabling PWAs is how Apple has chosen to retaliate against those new regulations.
  
  Yes, although that recently changed in the EU (only) with the Digital Markets Act.

Move away from apple products & taste the freedom..
- The problem is the only alternative (on phones) is handing over all my data to Google, the world’s largest ad company. I’m not sure that’s better…
  Desktop is easy. Install Linux. But on phones, there’s 2 bad realistic choices.
  
  You don't have to install Gapps though.
  
  almost every apple user says shit like this while using Gmail, Google docs, and the Google app on their phone and blindly giving Apple their data. let's be real for a sec and not pretend most Apple users give a flying fuck that Google tracks them. if a user truly cared about privacy, they would eventually come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter Apple or Google, privacy means not giving your data to ultra mega corps. so owning an iPhone isn't adequate for privacy either. both googled Android and iOS give your data back to their respective companies. neither are good for your privacy. one day when Apple start changing their tune on privacy policies, Apple fan boys who have put their their whole lives into the apple ecosystem will realize they put all their eggs in one basket.
  
  Pixel + GrapheneOS
  
  You mean rather than handing it over to Apple..
- For apple owners, flexing on "the poors" is their definition of freedom.

- Windows is the one where I need an account to install and that spies on me and throws ads in my face, that one?
  
  You don't need an account. De-bloating scripts take care of most other annoyances. You can fairly easily beat windows into submission
  
  Last time I checked you could sign in without a Microsoft account by deliberately interrupting your internet connection while setting up Windows.
- Too bad when more and more people buy Apple phones for some reason, well at least where I live (which is the poorer part of central Europe), I have no idea how people can spend this kind of money for a 4 or 5 year phone, when you can buy something more capable for the same money and you will actually know it will get supported with updates for more than 2 years
  Can't wait for this to be more widespread in the future to the point iMessage will be the messaging standard
  
  It's mostly a moot point anyway. The vast majority of people who buy apple products "for some reason" will have no frame of reference or desire to learn what has changed as far as web apps are concerned.
  
  Same reason poor people buy overpriced designer handbags. Status symbol…
  
  What I always found odd is that many people will try Android. And at the first problem they'll switch to iPhone.
  However the iPhone may demonstrate the same exact problem, among many more, yet they just deal with it anyway.
- This topic is about mobile devices, not desktop. Last I checked, Windows and Linux aren't mobile OS's.
  
  Android is LTS kernel + Google patches. I know it's not the flavor of Linux you are talking about, but most of my apps are side loaded via F-Droid and a few from Aurora as a Play store proxy on a de-Googled ROM (GrapheneOS). There is no walled garden here.
  
  There are mobile Linux distros.
  I am looking forward to installing Ubuntu Touch on my device:
  https://ubuntu-touch.io/
  https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/
  There are also a bunch of others, which I haven't looked into.
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_mobile_devices
  
  Maybe now, but Postmarket, Ubuntu phone, and Purism could be relevant in the future
- Windows is a disgrace.
- Why windows.. apple does a better job in general and that's saying something
  
  "In general" isn't really a metric you can use to compare operating systems.
- How is Windows ever an option? What a troll
  
  Although I agree with you it is not a good choice.
  Depending on your threat model it is acceptable. Everyone has different trade offs.

Firefox doesn't even support pwa, this is a weird community to post this
- Firefox for Android supports PWAs, only Desktop Firefox dropped the support
  
  And there is FirefoxPWA, an extension to add pretty solid PWA support on desktop.
  
  Which honestly makes sense, what’s the point of PWA on desktop?

I am using https://lichess.org/ and prefer it over the native iOS App for this free chess website. It is in fact a smoothly running PWA and even supports notifications (e.g. to remind one to move in correspondence games).
Same goes with Voyager ( https://vger.app/ ), that was used to create this post.
F* you, Apple!
- Same goes with Voyager ( https://vger.app/ ), that was used to create this post.
  Voyager is the best PWA I've ever seen.

Someone fill me in:
Can they really force this once EU opens the gates to the third-party app stores?
- They will try. This is about OS-level APIs. In order for a browser to to install and run PWAs, it needs certain OS APIs for e.g. home screen installation, storage and notifications. iOS currently has these APIs but Safari severely limits what you can do with it. Now the DMA will force Apple to accept other browsers, which have no such limitations. So, Apple now wants to remove these APIs altogether and kill PWA support outright, before that portion of the DMA takes effect.
  There probably will be a lawsuit and Apple will probably lose, but it will take years to resolve that. And in the mean time PWAs remain dead and the only way on the iOS home screen in paying the 30% app store cut.
  
  I see. So it doesn't look good for now. Thanks for the insight!
  
  Isn't it the other way around? Afaik the EU commission investigates them, makes a decision, and sets a due date for Apple to comply or pay a potentially hefty fine. It would be Apple who'd have to sue against that, and they'd have to pay the fine until a court confirms or nullifies it.
- Yes because what they are doing is just removing websites from the app-store. Other app-stores might add those websites to their store if they want but for the user it is almost always better to just save the website to their homescreen, which gives the exact same UX as previous web-apps but now you don't need to go to the app-store to download it, the app takes up no storage on your device and the web app can't access your privacy sensitive device IDs that might be used for cross-app tracking.

Thank you Tim Apple

This is so frustrating because this is a big hit to browsers like firefox because Apple has such a large userbase, but this same userbase does not give a shit, and this is because they bought an apple in the first place. Frustrating

- Firefox on Desktop doesn't support PWAs
  Apparently Firefox on Android does
  
  A PWA installed with Firefox on Android does not appear in the app launcher, but only on the home screen. I don't know whether this is the fault of Firefox or Android but it's a major flaw.
- There is a project on github that adds that function.

you're a cunt Tim

They are not sabotaging "web apps" (aka websites), you just need to save the website to the homescreen if you want to use a web app, (this is both quicker and takes up less storage on your device so it is better for the end-user).
They are removing these "apps" from the appstore because they are not native apps.
- PWAs (Progressive Web Apps) are their own categories of websites and they do indeed have the ability to behave like an actual app. They are much more than just a shortcut, which apple is reducing them to.
  On android, my PWA that I developed for fun can go full screen and appear as though a browser isn't wrapping the page, I can send notifications, I can access the microphone and camera, I can do nearly everything you could expect an app to do, I can support offline mode, I can store data locally, and I can manage my PWAs permissions as well as uninstall my app at an OS level. My entire family uses my PWA, and they see it as an app.
  Are there some things native apps can do that PWAs can't? Absolutely, but that is not the point. PWAs are an open and clearly defined technology to the web. Windows supports them as well.
  Apple is refusing to accept that though. They are removing notifications, badges, etc, and reducing them to what you have described, just a shortcut to a Safari window. They are citing security concerns even though other operating systems are able to implement security around them just fine.
  The real issue is Apple wants more control over how you use your device and is acting against the consumer.
  
  On android, my PWA that I developed for fun can go full screen and appear as though a browser isn’t wrapping the page
  That is literally how I am using kbin.social right now even though it's just a website
  I can send notifications, I can access the microphone and camera, I can do nearly everything you could expect an app to do
  All of those are defined in the web spec as well so you wouldn't need an app for that (if apple implemented all of them, not sure if they have)
  I can support offline mode
  Your cached web page can do that too (even though most web pages don't because it's not a common usecase)
  I can store data locally
  Cookies have existed for much longer than the iPhone
  uninstall my app at an OS level.
  A website added to your home page basically acts like an app: it has an icon on your home screen and you can longpress delete it just like apps
  Badges might be the only valid complaint (I don't know if they are part of the web spec)
  [Apple] is acting against the consumer.
  Not sure how this is hurting the consumer. This has been announced many years ago and devs haven't been able to publish new or update old web apps for ages, so this change only applies to those very old apps still on the appstore.