Linux @lemmy.ml neidu2 @feddit.nl 11 mo. ago

Friendly reminder

This is your annual reminder to do a snapshot (timeshift or whatever you prefer) before doing relatively minor changes to your system.

I was supposed to be in bed now, but instead I am stuck troubleshooting xorg refusing to start after an apt-get dist-upgrade.

And as far as friendly reminders go, I should've given myself an unfriendly reminder beforehand, as it's not the first time....

UPDATE: Fuck nvidia 545. All my homies hate nvidia 545. 535 4 lyf!

83 comments

nvidia mentioned
- ... the single worst company ...
  
  I wish. They are not even close.
  
  Nestle has entered the chat.
BTW, nixos allows you to easily roll back to a previous generation on boot in case an update breaks something.

Just sayin' 😁
- So does Fedora Silverblue for the record.
  
  It is a damn impressive feature to realize you just broke your install and are able to say “no problem”.
  
  Si does tumbleweed, two-clicks rollback from the GRUB menu
  
  Silverblue gang!
  
  Silverblue gang!
- Woohoo
- Opensuse's aeon is gold
Friendly reminder: just don't buy nvidia
- Many already have nvidia before they start with linux. I'm still on my 1060 from 2018.
  
  Another problem is that most manufacturers of laptops directed at the Linux crowd, for some reason I will never understand, insist on punching Nvidia hardware instead of AMD/ATI. How does that help?
  
  I had one before, then 2060, then 2080 and finally 6800 (current one), how is your nvidia experience right now compared to 2018? Any better?
- Unfortunately for those of us that use Cuda features, AMD just really isn't that viable of an alternative. Anyone who's had to deal with ROCM can attest to this...
- Permanently Deleted
- All these laptops make a circle... All these laptops make a circle... ;)
When u realize you dont even use a backup software rn
- I just copy my whole-ass home dir to an external drive every so often like a caveman.
  
  Permanently Deleted
  
  Which you should absolutely do even if you snapshot the eff out of your system. What about hardware failure, eh? Can't snap that nvidia shit can you?
Yeah..That is 2024, man, btrfs snapshots exist, ostree as well, my system will rollback itself if it won't boot after unsuccessful update.
- I slept on BTRFS for years, until getting it by default in OpenSuse. I'm never going back. Snapshots and dedupes are killer features.
  
  I'm on Debian now, and I get an automatic before and after snapshot with every apt install.
  
  How are you taking the snapshot automatically?
Or you opt for an operating system that lers you roll-back whole generations for when such a thing happens (GNU Guix for the win!)
Remember to check your three "B"s; your balls, your breasts and your backups.
- I'm using this from now on
Timeshift with BTRFS kicks ass. I have mine set for daily snapshots, retained for a week. Only the changes between snapshots are stored, so the extra disk usage is minimal, and easily justified by the peace of mind in case of fuck-ups or broken updates.
- Just make sure you back up your stuff to a second disk❤️
- Only the changes between snapshots are stored, so the extra disk usage is minimal
  
  If you want to use a similar approach for backups, Borgbackup is a pretty nice piece of software. I have two backups of my most important files: One on my NAS at home, and one "in the cloud" on a storage VPS (ends up way cheaper than using S3, B2 or anything like that).
  
  Which storage VPS have you selected? I'm looking at Hetzner atm.
Linux noobie here. Any tips on what to search for for instructions on how to do this? Bonus points if it has a GUI and is easy to use.
- Timeshift. It has an easy to understand GUI that doesn't really need much of an intro: You create snapshots of your system files and configs that can be restored if/when you bungle it up.
  
  Thanks, all setup!
  
  Timeshift works best if you use BTRFS for your root partition because snapshots can be taken instantly. I have mine setup to automatically take a snapshot every day.
  
  Never used it myself and i am still a linix noob but what is the restore process if your OS isnt bootable?
  
  If their like a rescue environment you boot into or something?
- As long as your file system is on BTRFS, timeshift is, I O, the easiest backup app for Linux, specially if you're just getting your feet wet in it.
  
  Why does Timeshift only support btrfs? Is it just a lack of developers? LVM supports snapshots too, even if you're just using ext4. ZFS supports snapshots too.
Is it dumb that I only backup my docs and anything else I think is important? I can rebuild fairly quickly if something would happen. I ask since I know that people backup a variety of their directories
- If you're comfortable, you're fine. Anything more would just be to speed up the rebuild, so it's less important if you don't mind taking the time.
Sorry cant hear you, too busy computing with the safety switched off and the action set to full auto.
I will never install a Linux desktop without a snapshotting root filesystem ever again. Nvidia driver updates, /boot getting too full during kernel or driver updates, a bad update of pipewire half a year ago, and more I can't remember. Was always able to boot to previous snapshot of the OS, and address whatever it was. Some ZFS here, some BTRFS there... and my small fleet of Linux desktops are as easy to recover as any immutable OS. Better even, because snapshots allow me to pull individual items or things between states easily, too.
Am on LMDE6 with an ancient Nvidia card. Because I've had to resort to using the Nvidia OEM driver installer (which can be a pain to use), installed Xorg updates lurk quietly until a full reboot at which point they generally cause offloading of GPU tasks to the CPU instead because it hasn't figured things out properly.

Timeshift has been useful at least twice in getting me back to a less stressed system.

I think I have a procedure figured out now though (documented here for posterity even if it helps no-one today):

Make a Timeshift snapshot just in case

Install the pending Xorg update

Reboot so it's fully active

Check to see if GPU tasks are being offloaded to the CPU by doing something graphics intensive and noting temperatures or usage%. If not, a miracle has occurred and continuing isn't needed.

sudo remove the execute permission on /usr/bin/Xorg so that it can't immediately be restarted by subsystems designed to protect the average Mint user from command lines and consoles.

Kill Xorg

Log in through a console, via Ctrl+Alt+F1 or similar if not dumped to one by killing Xorg.

Re-install the Nvidia OEM driver

sudo put the aforementioned execute permission back on

Repeat steps 2 and 3 and hope that this time the GPU is doing the work.

Reboots ought to be replaceable by running specific commands, but I haven't gone deep enough into things to know the right things to do there. Reboots are quick and easy enough.

Obvious intermediate steps include not doing anything else important during this and saving important work before starting.

e.g. did you know it's possible to bookmark all open tabs? Well worth looking into.
The nvidia 545 drivers are an absolute dumpster fire. Even for beta drivers they are easily the worst drivers I've ever used. They claim to fix the vrr gsync bug tho... so as soon as they fix gestures broadly everything else, maybe they'll be good
Definitely. I use Timeshift on Linux Mint Debian Edition and set it to take weekly snapshots. Saved my bacon about 2 weeks ago when a kernel update borked my system.
Neat little guide (Arch, systemd) to set up automatic snapshots when you run a pacman/yay update and the option to chose snapshots in grub during startup. Really useful.
I'm on 545 and I have no issues. But I'm also not using Ubuntu...

Maybe it's the distro that's the problem not the backup. I mean I'd rather have a distro with smooth updates than one that makes me need snapshots.

What's even the point with such a distro, ok so I restore previous working state, then what, I can't do updates anymore? Living in fear of official updates sounds terrible.
- So you're implying there exists a distro that is perfect and never breaks anything? Sounds like denial. Having time shift in place is risk management and says nothing about the distro, which btw all are imperfect and may break eventually. Kinda confused how one can run Linux and be unaware of how complex and fallible ALL software is.
  
  No, I'm implying that official updates breaking the system is insane and should not be accepted as the norm to the point you casually need to use snapshots just to keep your system working.
- I think it's just dumb to not make a backup before large updates. There's so many things happening, a lot can go wrong, especially if you have added 3rd party repos and have customized core parts of the system, not just through config files but let's say you switched to latest kde plasma from the one your distro ships.
  
  And what happens if you have to restore the backup?
  You can look up what's the solution to your problem in peace while everything is still working. If it was a server, all the services are still available, if it was your desktop you don't have to use a live linux usb that's without all your configs to find the solution
  
  You make a good point. Ubuntu gives you so many ways to shoot yourself in the foot that it's pretty much a given that it will get messed up eventually. So you have to use snapshots.
  
  On Arch based distros the updates just work. I've never had to snapshot anything. But having just one single community repo (AUR) contributes to that a great deal.
- nvidia drivers have often done weird shit to my system. so, I would probably also lean towards amd in the future.
  
  Yeah that's why I use Nvidia, because AMD drivers are super stable.

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